Hpnotiq

ok here goes...

I bought a demo that has had 1 oil change and ester oil was used...

Now it's time for change # 2...I am asking here becasue everyone at the delership seems to have a different opinion..

I plan to switch to synthetic oil but have read to wait until after the 1st few oil changes...soooooooooo

Should I go with ester for the 2nd one? switch to regular (dino) for this ONE oil change? or since it's due at 7,880--I'm at 7,500--should I go ahead and start using the synthetic oil?

trix_05

I would use dino for the next two, then switch to synthetic. I bought a demo as well with 12,000Kms - they only used Dino and I switched to synthetic at 16,000kms.

Good luck!

zukabaker

I think that it will come done to a personal preference about changing your oil. My dealer said that I should use synthetic. I trust him and I will follow his advice.


My .02 cents worth.

67whitegoat

iTrader: (4)

I would go ahead and put synthetic in it. My first oil change I switched to Amsoil 0w-30. I know...controvercy. Too soon...break in period...manufactuerer says....the guy at the dealer told me...blah, blah, blah. The tolerances on todays engines are much tighter. No more need for a break in period. The dealer/manufacturer is going to cover their a$$. You can not tell me that the cars and trucks that come from factory with synthetic oil are built with a tighter tolerance that those that do not. That makes no sence. In the end it is individual choice. If one is to "play it safe" then they should only use ester oil from the dealer.

Ok...now I've done it.

lightonthehill

67whitegoat - You blathering dumb stu . . . oops, hold on; I forgot you are one of the few good guys here. I might suggest that cars arrive from the factory contain the type of oil for which the engineers built the engine. Of course there will be those who say there is no difference in engine tolerances, but who knows?

Going to either a synthetic blend or full synthetic at 7500 certainly won't hurt the engine. I personally would use a good dino for another change or two, but that is just me and my whims. Unless you are wealthy, or have a source at reduced cost, I would not fool with the ester oil (of course one change using ester is no problem).

angrye

I went full synthetic (Amsoil) at 10K miles.

bk2k3max

Go with Synthetic and never look back or you will turn into a Pillar of Sludge. LOL!

No seriously though, i think most of the dealerships/STEALerships will tell you just about anything to get you to overspend (by paying too much) at their business.

homeyclaus

iTrader: (1)

Wait, isn't synthetic motor oil composed of ester oils as a base?

What's the diff? Did they use oil without additives as a motor oil or something?

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Only Group V Synthetic oils have ester as "part" of their base stock. Some believe the Nissan Ester oil is regular dino and ester as one of the many additives. I'm not so certain as Nissan has never divulged the base stock formulation, I wouldn't be surprised if it's a Group III Synthetic.

This is what Mobil 1 states about Nissan Ester Oil:

"We have not been able to get much information on the Nissan Ester Oil but our analysis indicates that it is part or full synthetic oil. Many synthetic oils, including Mobil 1, contain a variety of syn..."

Michael76

67 - what has been your experience w/ SSO? I hear it is one hell of an oil! Have you had a UOA done? What is your intervals and what filter to you use? Thanks!

Michael76

Max - when do you anticipate receiving your UOA of Nissan ester? Is this the only oil you have run in your Max? What is your feedback of the ester oil and what are your planned OCIs? Thanks!

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Well it typically takes Blackstone a week after receiving my samples so I'm expecting a report NLT Feb 5th.

I ran Amsoil SSO 0W30 for one interval then switched to Nissan's oil,

I plan to change at 5k or 7k just depends on what the UOA and TBN results look like after review.

I'm trying like heck to figure out who the manufacturer is for Nissan, I thought it was Idemitsu Lubricants which is the OEM supplier for all asian manufacturers but I couldn't find a link to this oil and Idemitsu.

After re-reading the patent that Nissan submitted for their Ester oil I found that Nippon Oil was involved and they market their Eneos line and surprise they have a compatible (under-warranty) CVT fluid. Doesn't really prove anything but it makes me suspicious if they are the OEM supplier for Nissan...

Why I switched to Nissan "ester" Oil:

After much reading, Nissan clearly found a unique way to suspend the nano particles in the ester and it's my opinion that's precisely why Nissan emphasizes the word "Ester" in labeling the product. It's clearly not about the amount of ester in their oil, it's about what is in that small amount of ester and how it works with the coatings in their engines. The nano particles are at the core of what makes this oil unique, not the ester.

Nissan was "all about" reducing friction in their VVEL in a very different way than any other oil so they could increase their fleet mileage and reduce pollutants by using inert(nano particles) friction modifiers which are much cleaner. It also reduces the valve clatter on the VVEL for the VQ37VHR which has been the subject of a TBN from Nissan/Infiniti.

http://www.jsme.or.jp/English/awardg06-07.pdf

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/TECH...DLC/index.html

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCU...AL/VVEL_EN.pdf

http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/DOCU...0713VVEL-e.pdf - cool document on the VVEL (only on the VQ37HR/VHR)

http://www.eneos.us/

http://www.idemitsu-usa.com/page_202.htm

Hpnotiq

Max--since you are so knowledgeable about oil can you answer my original question...

I might get it done today and I'm still as confused as b4 I asked it.

PetitFrereMaxima

iTrader: (2)

Hpnotiq:

Basically, let me summarize what some people have said. Maybe it will help you make that final decision today.

(1) Its a personal choice. Do it if you want to. No harm done.

(2) New engines are built so well these days, you don't need too long of a break-in period before switching to synthetic. So, doing it now wouldn't hurt.

(3) Or like they still say, change with ester for the next 2 or 3 oil changes, then go synthetic.

This should make you come to a conclusion on what to do.

Personally, I bought my car brand new. Used dino until 30k because I was following the premium recommended maintenance in my manual FAITHFULLY! At that 30k, I changed to M1 EP with its filter. Ran this for 7500miles. At 37500miles, I changed to Amsoil 5w30 amd its filter. I am at 43k now and will use this oil for 12500miles. So, at 50k, I plan to switch to Amsoil SSO. And will run it for 15k OCI. Just my preference. And I have not done any UOA and really don't plan to.

You make yours up based on your new found knowledge and preference. I did!

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Hipnotiq,

PetitFrereMaxima summed it up perfectly, whether you choose regular oil (dino), ester oil or synthetic you'll be perfectly fine with any of those choices for your new Maxima. Don't let my very strange obsession with lubricity impact your wallet or sense of well being with your decision on what oil to use.

Hpnotiq

PFMax--I didn't even know there were THAT many diff types of oil..LOL I swear this is like information OVERLOAD....

The way I look at it..it makes more sense (financially/schedule wise) to do Synthetic now. I've read I can go around 7500 K between changes. 90% of my miles are highway miles--My 1 way commute is 24 miles--but I do not stay in the office all day--I am in sales--so I do drive out to meet with clients appx 3-4 times a week and their locations vary

I do tend to have a "heavy foot"--the speed limit for part of my commute is 70--so I am easily going 75 most days until I hit traffic...I try to leave my home "late" to avoid the stop and go--and can can typically make it into the office in 30-40 minutes

I hate sitting in the dealership--and becasue my schedule changes from day to day the less often I have to do it the better...with that being said synthetic SEEMS like the best option for me...

So now that you all know abt my driving habits---do you recommend any one oil over another? (I wasn't sure of that would make a difference)

PetitFrereMaxima

iTrader: (2)

Wow, here comes the part where everyone will want you to do what they do. But the people with more knowledge in this field will probably say it is your preference. Go with what you like. But you haven't tried any, so you don't even know what you like.

So, to start off, you will have to try a couple before settling with one. Or just google the popular brands..., mobil, amsoil, castrol, royal purple, valvoline, pennzoil.., and read a lot of reviews to make a decision. Try making your decision based on good reviews, availability, accessibility and maybe affordability.

Honestly, for you, based on your driving habits and not willing to sit for long at the dealership, you might have to go with whatever synthetic that particular delearship has. But if you wish to buy your own oil and take to the dealership you can conveniently choose M1 synthetic or go M1 EP and do your oil change anywhere between 7k to 10k. Or you could do Castrol, Pennzoil, or any other synthetic oil that can easily be found at Walmart.

Most often, you have to find what oil works best for you or just choose one and stick to it. Or you could still go and be switching oil. That is whatever synthetic that dealership you go to has in bulk, you are bound to be served that. Except you insist they put a different brand they have on their shelves.

I prefer sticking to same oil, once I decide on it. Others go with whatever is on sale. Afterall, these people say synthetic is synthetic.

Hpnotiq

ok I think this will be the LAST question...LOL Should I pick up a 'special" filter since I will be changing every 7500K??

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Engineers don't build an engine around the type of oil they select to use.

Michael76

Thanks for the links, should be good reading! Can't wait for the UOA! Would be nice to run the Nissan oil to 7,500! Wouldn't you think it would be capable of handling this interval? After all, it is the suggest OCI for schedule 2 maintenance, per Nissan!!!

Understood. Out of curiosity, what is the factor fill in our Maximas? It is nice to gain incite on why Nissan is recommending the "secret" oil though! This is definitely something worth finding out!

lightonthehill

You are correct of course. I should have said the cars arrive from Nissan containing the oil Nissan engineers/technicians/economists feel is most appropriate for that vehicle/engine, having considered both lubrication needs and cost of oil.

Hpnotiq

I am @ the dealership--they have carry Mobile 1 synthetic oil and that's what I am getting...

Let's see what it costs out the door...I'll be sure to update

lightonthehill

As most of your driving is highway miles, either dino or synthetic would work perfectly. Even your 'heavy foot' (75 MPH) does not change this.

If you were doing mostly stop-and-go (city) driving, or pulling a trailer, or drove in extreme heat (regularly over 100 degrees) or extreme cold (frequently under 10 degrees), or liked to do frequent all-out acceleration starts from traffic lights or stop signs, or liked to go 120 MPH, I would STRONGLY recommend synthetic. But dino would serve your particular high speed open road needs very well.

Having said that, because you are busy, and do not like to sit at the dealer, synthetic might be your best choice just for the convenience of skipping a lot of dealer visits. Less frequent dealer visits mean less times mechanics will smear grease on your upholstery or carpets or leave the engine oil cap off or cross-thread your crankcase oil plug or ding your door or push unneeded services.

zukabaker

For comparison I paid $54.00 her in Massapequa NY at the dealer.

Hpnotiq

Well let me tell yall (yeah I'm a southern girl) what happened. Ok so I get the Mobile 1 oil change--it's $71 but they leave the old window sticker on the car--so I ask if they can change it--so the guy comes to do that and is asking me if they also rotated my tires while he is programming the dash service thingy...anyway..I pull out out the service manual and they have signed off on EVERYTHING but checked my receipt and it was not there...so after some checking I found out it was not done afterall--so they ask me if I want it done...ummmmmm yeah--you said you did it--I want it done. So after speaking with the service manager abt it--he had them bring it back and do it...for free of course... but I had to let them know that as the dealership I am trusting that they are in fact doing what they say they are & that this is not a good way to start things off with a new customer. FYI the service is an additional $19.95. Once I leave and get down the road I see that they did 3750 miles on my sticker VS 7500 for the synthetic oil...UGHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

Should I even bother calling them back to make sure they added the tire rotation to my service record?

I'm frustrated with them already!

gizzsdad

Agreed.

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

Yes no surprise M1 is factory fill for the GTR and is "required" for the GTR so all Nissan dealerships that are GTR certified have to carry it.

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

They won't change it to 7500 as that is not Nissan's recommendation even with Synthetic, we can help you set it to any mileage amount you want it's rather easy.

Hpnotiq

I think the guy did it for me--at least I hope so...My question is will it void my warranty not going it as Nissan has recommended? I mean if they wanted to be d**ks about it--could they?

MaxLoverAz

iTrader: (1)

No only if they could create a connection between an oil related failure with your engine and not changing your oil. You don't even have to use Nissan for your oil changes however you should always retain all your service records for proper proof of services.

The schedule 2 in the owners manual iirc is for 7,500 miles.

Hpnotiq

OK cool..I just want to be sure...I am keeping everyting for this car!

PS At my dealership once you pay for 4 oil changes--your 5th is free...so I guess if you break it down that way--it comes out to be $284 for 5 or $57 each...

67whitegoat

iTrader: (4)

I have not had any Used oil analysis done. My experience with Amsoil SSO is slight But, I read a lot. I Like the Amsoil 0w30 because it is one of the oil products available that is actually 100% synthetic using a poly-alpha-olefin or PAO as base stock. Castrol syntec ,for one, calls their oil 100% synthetic however their base stock in made from mineral oils (dino).

I bought my 96 Maxima in 1998. I was skeptical of synthetics, not to mention the cost, and I didn't start running synthetic until I hit 100k. I now have 155k. I have Amsoil full synthetic transmission fluid and Amsoil 0w30 engine oil. I use a Amsoil EA-013 oil filter and change the oil and filter once a year or 10k which ever comes first. Now I also have a 2010 and for its first oil change I put in Amsoil 0w30 and the Nissan 9E000 filter. I will change that combo every 6k oil and 3k filter until I hit 20k. Then I will change every 10k or 1year and use the Amsoil EA-013 oil filter.

67whitegoat

iTrader: (4)

I would not go as far as to say there are 0 differences. I just don't think new engines in todays autos need a long break in period. It is my opinion that any slight break in a new engine may call for can be realized with synthetic oils as well as dino oils.

I see a lot of the factory fills are high performance cars. One reason these cars run synthetic is the cooler running temperatures. This is why Chevy started putting Mobil 1 in there Corvettes in 1992.

Michael76

Isn't it messy changing the oil filter w/o draining the oil? What is your thought process regarding using an OEM filter for the first 20k? Also, the 9E000 isn't the suggested filter for the Max, is it?

On another note, I just talked to my good friend who is the GM and part owner of a Toyota dealership. We were talking about Nissan's Ester Oil and he informed me that Toyota is recommending "Toyota's Sythetic Oil" on basically their entire 2010 line up going forward. He said that the oil changes run $57 and they are recommending a 10k drain interval! Seems like the manufacturers are trying to get into the oil business!!!

gizzsdad

Never changed filter w/o changing oil, so can't speak to that. The 9E000 is just a little longer than the spec'd. filter, so many feel better about using a filter with a little more capacity. I'm using the Purolator PureOne equivalent of the 9E000.

I have also read that the syn that Toyota is recommending is 0W-20, and there are many suppliers of that oil.

67whitegoat

iTrader: (4)

I guess it could be. Not a lot of oil comes out with the oil filter removed, but if you use a shop vac then no oil will come out. The shop vac creates a vacuum in the engine and holds the oil in. You can even remove the drain plug.

The Amsoil filter is for extended service and is more expensive.

I have decided to stay cautious, wait until after 20k for the extended change intervals.

STARR

iTrader: (1)

The filter is located above the oil pan so whatever is in the filter will drip out, you will not lose anything else.

Toyota switching to 10k intervals with synthetic for 2010, seems pretty rational, my fathers 07 ES350 which held 6.4 quarts or 7 which was what was usually put in, it always got regular dino and went 5k, and the oil always looked clean at the time we changed it so, to run synthetic to 10k does not seem like much of a challenge.

I have done a lot of reading on bob is the oil guy, and the newer toyota engines all do quite well on synthetic and long drains, Im sure that may change when everyone is doing longer intervals, just like how a handful of owners burn their engine out with BMW recommended 15k changes

LtLeary

Not so sure I agree with this statement. It would be a poor engineer indeed who decided to build an engine that required an oil whose viscosity or temp ratings didn't yet exist or payed it no mind. They couldn't even attempt to determine any type of MTBF. They would have to select at least some SAE or other grading variant they would "design to," otherwise they would end up developing various lubricants AFTER the engine was built. Just like our CVT fluid, there MUST be considerations as to the lubricating properties or all the mechanical devices would just "blow up!"

coroner71

I am hoping one of you guys out there can help me with a confusing situation I am having between two Nissan dealership's service depts.

I bought my car as a demo and an oil change was due. I have Nissan's Bronze Maintenance care package, which includes oil changes. When I got the oil changed I told them I wanted the synthetic used, which they said would be an additional $35.00... so i paid.

Yesterday, I went in for the 2nd oil change at a different dealer who pulled up my care program and said that the recommended oil for the maxima is the Ester Oil and is 100% covered by the program, and that i should not have had to pay extra for the original service.

I then called the original service department, and was rudely told that synthetic is not included in the plan and that the current service dept. doesnt know what they are talking about.

I have called Nissan Consumer Affairs to look into it..and there seems to be a lack of understanding of the original oil used PART NUMBER "ENEOS-5W30" (ENOES)..and the oil used now PART NUMBER "999MP-5W30EP". I dont know which would be more expensive, but, the dealer yesterday said i shouldnt have had to pay anything.

Either way, from the consumer stand point, obviously i wouldnt want to have to pay extra if not needed..but, by saying i wanted synthetic, I shouldve been covered.

Anyone have insight on this????


Thanks...
Jon

lightonthehill

It may well be that Nissan's Bronze maintenance package does not cover synthetic, but I don't really know. You need to read the fine print on your contract. Unless your contract specifically says it includes synthetic, then we have to assume this is left up to individual dealers.

My question is this: Why not ALWAYS use Nissan's ester oil, which is the most expensive oil on the market, was designed specifically for Nissan engines, and IS covered FREE under the Bronze maintenance plan? I certainly would. The fact Nissan's ester oil is a dino oil should not bother us. Except in certain extreme conditions (like trailer towing in Death Valley), dino works very very well.