ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I've been going through ALOT of drama with my bodyshop and STILLEN lately, and have been holding out sharing the story to give both entities a chance to work things out, but alas, my car still has NO SPOILERS on it. In fact they were only ON the car for 2 days. Here's my deal:

I bought the roof and trunk spoilers about 3 months ago +/-. The body shop I brought them to painted them, and like most body shops, baked them to cure them. Apparently the urethane STILLEN uses cannot be baked or severe deformation occurs. They did not say this ANYWHERE in their instructions, nor on the website. The deformation has made them IMPOSSIBLE to stay stuck on the car, and also gave them a weird shape and they look like shizzah. I emailed Josh and he basically said that Urethane should NEVER EVER be baked under any circumstance. I asked where this very important information was in the documentation that came with the part... It isnt. I think something this important should be listed in the instructions, especially since most paint shops bake parts to cure them.

A few days ago I spoke with Chuck Clemens, the customer service manager, and he said the most they would be willing to do is SELL ME replacements at "below cost" - $250 for both. BULLLLLLCRAP. As the customer I should not have to pay diddly. And come on, they are making a stink out of 250?

The body shop would be more than willing to buy new ones for me if they believed it was their fault - they stand behind their work, good or bad. They don't want to take credit for something that isn't their fault tho, and the fact that STILLEN didn't include even one sentence saying "do not bake these items or your product will be ruined and useless" is rediculous. Again, $250?? They are also refusing to give in due to the principle of the matter, not to mention they have invested a ton of money the past 3 months trying to get them to stay on, repainting them, etc. (at no charge to me).

I have not taken any sides and have remained neutral throughout the whole situation. I will say that the level of attention I have recieved from Josh and Chuck has been phenominal. There just havn't been any results yet.

So at the current moment my body shop manager is trying to contact Chuck and duke it out. They are basically in a pissing match and I'm the lucky guy who gets to watch the show.

So that's that, the cat's outta the bag.

JSMax

iTrader: (13)

any pictars?
But from my past dealings with stillen, they seem to be a company that is "take it our way or leave it."
Good luck to you.

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

dam that stinks man, thanks for letting us know. I plan to buy the roof wing soon from stillen, now i gotta make sure the body shop i bring it to doesnt bake them.....Good luck

mr305

not the best of doing business, I was just about to order my roof spoiler, when i decided to see what new posting had been added, i will hold of too see how everything plays out... with u.

KillaKam

you don't really know that the urethane is not supposed to be baked until you do some research on it. I remember when I had my altima and I was going to buy a urethane product it said not to bake it because since urethane is flexable there are certain oils in the bumper that will dry out causeing it to dry and not be flexable leading to it cracking and what not. Also there is a certain type of painting process for urethane pieces... Did the body shop know that it was urethane by any chance??

Eaither way if it means that much to you and nothings happening I would possible get a lawyer and look at some legal routes in getting your money back and then some for your stress...

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

My whole problem with this situation is that I have done nothing wrong. It shouldn't be up to me to do the research - I did tell them that it was urethane. And they had the instructions supplied with the parts, so they painted and prepped them exactly as it said. The body shop has been around for like 40 years or something, so ya they know what they are doing... but apparently not with urethane.

I'm not going to get a lawyer and go to court over $250 haha. Bottom line in my opinion is that someone's gotta step up. Whether it is STILLEN or the body shop, I don't care. I just want a freakin spoiler on the car!

rroderiques77

iTrader: (45)

Stillen sucks.. I also had problems with them in the past. I think its product is way overpriced and its customer service stinks. You ought to post this in the Buyer/Feedback section. Hopefully, it is one of those companies that go out of business like thousands of others recently.

Mreim769

I honestly believe that if Stillen isn't stepping up (go figure) for incorrectly labeling their products with the proper warning then maybe it should be in the hands of the body shop to step up. This isn't the first I have heard of Urethane disfiguring from heat while baking and to be completely honest I don't own a body shop and install body parts and re paint them all day long. Just my $0.02

1sik4dsc

iTrader: (1)

yea i dont blame you, it wasnt your fault , But then i gotta say since you told the body shop that the wings were urethane , they shoulda knew not to bake it, in reality i think its the body shops fault. If anyone has to pay you it should be the body shop

mr305

I think your body shop should know this since they do this job every day, I was clue less that Urethane can not over heat or whatever... a shop open open for 40+yrs should of know better, and if they were not sure of the process should call u... and let u know. dont u think that would of been more proper... on stillen side i see they want to make an extra buck on you.

rroderiques77

iTrader: (45)

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I completely agree. I went to this shop BECAUSE they had been around awhile (not to mention they originally offered to do paint and install on both for $150 total). At first I blamed them for screwing it up. I went in and spoke with the manager and at that point we both agreed that STILLEN should take most of the blame.
Then I spoke with Josh and Chuck and they said it is common knowledge not to bake urethane.
That is when I took a step back and decided to be completely neutral in the situation and let them work it out. It's not worth my time or stress - In the end we are just talking about a few peices of plastic. (And a few hundred dollars of my hard earned cash)

Mr. Brett

iTrader: (7)

Stillen's overpriced because they're one of the leading manufacturers of Nissan aftermarket parts and they know it.

Personally, I wouldn't want to see them go out of business. The few parts I've ordered from them, while a bit steep, yeah, have also been of a very high quality. Just my .02..

As for the spoiler: I'd say that the body shop should've known if they've been in business for so long. But at the same time, I also agree that there should've been some sort of indication from Stillen that you can't bake urethane. I guess I can see why you're stuck in the middle.

If you want my personal opinion, though, the body shop's more at fault. They're "professionals" at what they do. That's why most of these aftermarket parts come with the words "Professional installation highly recommended" on their instructions.

Tippy Toes

iTrader: (6)

body shop for 40+ owes you. Stillen should send warnings with painted parts. On that note should stillen also warn body shops to use the correct paint code too??....either way sorry to hear that.

EnervinE

iTrader: (11)

Exactly. The body shop should be prepared to recognize urethane, as not every customer coming in with a urethane body kit or spoiler is going to inform them of it. The fact that you even made a note to say "this is made out of urethane" makes the body shop's error not only a malpractice, but a complete mistake on their part. If you have definitive proof that their actions caused the problems with your parts, they need to replace them.

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

Good point.

gizzsdad

Actually, I think I would suggest Stillen and the body shop split the cost to start over.

KillaKam

Ya I agree it is pretty much common knowledge not to bake urethane products just like everyone else is saying. For having properly trained automotive painters they should have knows this... Stillen is wrong by not putting this warning on the product I mean mcdonalds or w.e. it was got sued cause some lady burnt her hand or touch on a hot cup of coffee and went to court and said that there was nothing that said it was hot on the cup (even though its obvious) and won that law suit. But i do have to say that the bodyshop is more at fault for this expecially since its a car dealerships body shop.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

While a lawyer would not make financial sense, you could take them to small claims court. U can sue them both for negligence and hold them jointly and severally liable Summers v. Tice

Team STILLEN

Hi Zach,

First off, I am sorry you've had issues with STILLEN products and their paint and preparation. This is never something we want to see, and is a very rare circumstance.

The usual issue with a bodyshop is for them attempting to circumvent the correct prepping procedures of using an automotive primer, and attempting to simply use an adhesion promoter, which can result in the paint incorrectly sticking to the part. Instead this situation appears to be one of an even rarer circumstance in which the body shop decided to bake the part to the point where it melted and lost it's shape.

While we do include instructions on prepping the materials to ensure they properly prepare the material for paint adhesion, we do not give them instructions on how to properly paint and cure, as that is what a body shop is in business doing. There are a million things that will and won't work, it's the same reason you don't typically see people painting body accessories in their garage. Explaining the proper procedure in how to paint and cure a urethane accessory is not in the scope of information we should be providing to a quality body shop in the business of painting parts.

Even with that in mind, we went ahead and offered replacements for both pieces at $250, offered to you (our customer) to take back to the shop and make arrangements. As a courtesy, we have talked to your shop on several occasions to discuss the issues. The shop is not our customer, you were in this situation, and we believed we were doing our part to help alleviate your situation of the parts being damaged by the body shop.

We at STILLEN always stand behind our parts, and all urethane products have a limited lifetime warranty against defects, but unfortunately, damage like this isn't the fault of the product.

You also had an issue with a T-Rex billet grille you purchased from us, with some of the chrome areas flaking off. We sent a replacement with a deposit, and even before T-Rex looking at the product, we fully credited you back once we received the grille in question. We always try to offer a fair solution if an issue does occur, which is extremely rare, but can happen to anyone.

I completely understand your frustration, you wanted to purchase the parts, drop them somewhere to be painted and installed, and be done. It's unfortunate the shop you chose made the choice to bake them at high temperature to cure, ruining the parts. I'm struggling to find any occurrence of this happening with our urethane in the past, and haven't run across anything at this point. It's something a body shop familiar with aftermarket urethane parts just doesn't do.

We'd be happy to continue to work with you, and your shop if necessary, to see if we can get this resolved in the best possible way. Please don't hesitate to contact me.

Josh

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the run-down Josh. You have been very helpful through this process and I appreciate that. I will print this and bring it with me to the body shop after work.

I really hope my bad luck with parts stops after this issue is resolved. It's craziness.

Team STILLEN

Zach I'd love nothing better than to see this worked out and you having STILLEN spoilers on your Max.. :/

Tippy Toes

iTrader: (6)

print this too

body shops fault

/thread

DanNY

iTrader: (14)

I believe the stillen's urethane parts can withstand some heat but i honestly think the shop over heated the part and tried to blame the manufacturer for the mistake.

modern shops run IR lamps to warm up the part to get the paint to dry faster but this sounds like they ran it too hot. FYI they don't "bake" parts anymore like an oven for your cookies and cakes.

Josh...i painted my kit (3rd gen) in my garage and it came out perfect

for the members that calls "stillen sucks" etc etc....READ THE STORY...look at it from both sides...clearly the body shop messed up and is trying to blame stillen for it. they know it's not OEM...they should know that they need to prep it correctly and paint it correctly. for the record...you don't have to "bake" the part to get a good finish. the warming up the part is to get the paint to harden faster so they (the shop) can move on to the next car instead of waiting for the paint to dry.

you know why stillen stopped making parts for us for older gens? because they spend so much in R&D and all the members here complain that they suck...but the next thread is why don't we have aftermarket support. It's because you keep telling companies that they suck. THINK BEFORE YOU POST!!!

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

reading the story....body shop is at fault and saying "the instructins didnt say so"

the instrustions also does not state that you "should not slice the lip into a million pieces" does that mean that you can go chop the lip up and then request a new one from Stillen?

Body shop should man up and get you new lips and paint them for the agreed price.

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I just got off the phone with my body shop. They have ordered me the stock Nissan Spoiler kit and will install it sometime next week. They are sitting on the grenade and taking 'responsibility' for the whole mishap. They don't want me to be an unhappy customer. STILLEN, on the other hand, could care less. I agree with most people that the body shop should have done things different, but the fact that STILLEN saw the opportunity to blame someone else and followed through with it is pretty stupid. I think they should def mention somewhere that the parts cannot be 'baked'. I am very excited for this whole ordeal to be put to bed and finally have a spoiler on the car. Thank you everyone for your insights on the situation, they were very useful and informative. I still have a neutral opinion on STILLEN. They have a 1-1 record in my book. The problem I had with my grille was handled great, the spoilers not so much.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

pics of stock nissan spoiler kit?

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I don't have it installed yet. They should have it in next week. It will look like every other 7th gen with the stock spoiler installed. The kit just comes with the prepainted spoiler, wiring harness for the brake-light, and rear-deck brake-light delete plate.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

what about the roof spoiler?

zukabaker

I hate to disagree but Stillen offered a replacement at a discount to help resolve the issue. Why did the body shop not purchase the pieces from Stillen? Why are they installing a prepainted stock piece?

Just curious.

Ohio Maxima

I would also like to see photos before I order mine.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

I feel you are being short changed here. You bought your parts and took it to have it painted and installed. Its not your problem that the body shop messed up your quality parts. Now to top it off they want to give you some OEM crap that they see as a cheaper alternative. It sucks man because you are coming out the looser without touching anything. Don't let people screw you over like this or else you will be getting screwed over for the rest of your life if you don't take a stand for yourself.


Just by them offering the OEM spoiler they are accepting the blame for the screwup. They should give you back the STILLEN spoilers that you wanted. If you were to take this to small claims court you would deffinately come out on top.

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I chose to go with the stock spoiler. The thought of something merely taped to the car really turned me off. Not to mention that if they can't be cured above 90 degrees ( I believe that's what Chuck said was the cutoff) what happens to them on a hot summer day? I weighed the options, and a bolted on stock spoiler sounds more appealing at this point. Both options should cost about the same in the end. I think the figure they were getting was $350ish at their cost for the whole kit, prepainted but with much more install labor. If they took the deal with stillen it is $250 plus paint with minimal install time. Factor in that I have only paid them $90 to date (the gave me a refund of $60 after the first sign of trouble) and really I'm not losing money. Down the road if I want the roof spoiler I will have to get it, but for now I am sticking with the stock spoiler that is BOLTED to the trunk.

It is an interesting situation and I can only explain it as best I can. If you were there with me talking to the shop manager you would see that I am not being taken advantage of, merely trying to make the proper decisions that I won't regret down the road. She did not "offer" a lower quality or cheaper alternative 'let's make a deal style' - I requested the stock spoiler due to the fact that it is bolted down. Had I insisted she get the replacement STILLEN parts I'm sure she would have.

ANNINO

iTrader: (1)

I actually thought about going to small claims court, but that meant more time till I get a darn spoiler. They were supposed to be on in may. I'm far beyond impatient and frustrated at this point.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

Thanks for clearing that up. Good to see that you're not getting jerked.

Team STILLEN

Saying that we care less is really inaccurate.. as that's far from the truth. We hate to see situations like this, and believe we offered a fair resolution for the shop to get you squared away.

The parts we shipped you were the same as thousands of urethane pieces we sell, and unfortunately the shop had some issues and damaged the pieces.

The urethane pieces can handle over 90 degrees, and a hot summer day is not going to affect the parts, and there are no days at 180 degrees or whatever they baked them at.

These parts utilize a high performance 3M Acrylic Foam Tape designed specifically for this application. There are plenty of OEM spoilers which use the same tape, that's really not an issue.

That being said, I'm sorry this entire ordeal even happened at all, and am glad you're not settling, but requesting how you'd like things to be resolved with the shop.

zukabaker

I am glad that there seems to be some sort of compromise and solution with the body shop.
I feel for you that you ended up with the stock spoiler instead of the Stillen setup.

secondtonone317

iTrader: (12)

I agree that the double sided tape thing should not be an issue. alot of my audi and bmw friends have OEM spoilers that are only held by double sided tape. If installed and prepped properly that bond is as strong as a screw would be.

Chio

I will NEVER buy anything from them again!! the exhaust i bought rusted and they dropped the ball on that! I emailed them the picts and they sent a general reply!!! i answered back and NOTHING!!!

mr305

Glad to see everything came down your way... The OEM spoiler is very nice i dont see anything wrong with it. At least the body shop gave u a solution.. Sorry to say it but Stillen wash their hands but good for you, you still came on top regarless... The OEM SPOILER IS NOT CHEAP....