MaxMus

Coming from an Infiniti M35X with AWD, I had reservations about taking my 09 Maxima out in the snowstorm we had a couple of days ago. I park in my backyard, where I have to go between two houses, so it's a long way (couple hundred feet) to the streets.

Cranked up the Maxima, put her in D, and pulled out with NO WHEEL SPIN through unplowed/unshoveled snow. Even my M35x tires slipped a little when I accelerate in the snow/ice so I was completely surprised that this little FWD car could perform so well. Once I got on the road, it was as if there was no snow/ice on the ground.

When I got to my destination, the parking lot of a grocery store, I decided to toss her around a bit in the almost empty lot (nothing too crazy). The little bit of wheel spin that I did experience was so well controlled by the CVT/TCS that I had to look at the little blinking light on the dashboard in order to really tell the front wheels losing traction. When you try to make the car spin out, the VDC gently nudges the car in the direction you intended. You have to feel it in order to understand how differently the VDC worked (much more smoothly) in this car, compared to my M.

I don't know what it is about this car, and how it puts power to the ground. It's amazing the level of control this CVT has over engine output. When I had my 05 Maxima SL with the 5-speed, it was scary driving in the snow with that thing. A little bit of acceleration would cause the tires to spin out when trying to get out of a snow bank or when turning a sharp corner. Not so in the 09 CVT equipped Maxima.

I have to agree with Nissan in that this is the best Maxima ever. It has almost everything my M had, for about 12K less. It's comfortable, very smooth (thanks in big part to the excellent CVT and its programming), and it's sporty. What more could you want in a vehicle?

mkaresh

Some stability control systems are much more seamless than others. Not sure why.

Sounds like they're using tires that are good for snow on the car--tires are the #1 variable here. Which tires are on your car?

I'm not familiar with the CVT. Is there a button with a snow setting?

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

A 6 speed manual transmission

MaxMus

Nah, I can't see myself driving a manual transmission in this hellhole I called NJ. I'll take the CVT over a manual anyday in these conditions.

dkmura

MaxMus- can you compare the workmanship, quality of materials and interior design of the Infiniti M35X vs. your new Maxima?

lightonthehill

This is exactly why I was so excited when the Maxima went to FWD with the '85 in fall of 1984. I had driven RWD for 35 years, and learned the hard way many times that RWD, hilly roads and snow absolutely do not mix. Having two-thirds of the weight of the car over the drive wheels makes a huge difference.

Also, I waited many months before buying my '04 SL because I absolutely insisted on VDC (Nissans electronic stability control), and VDC was only being put in around 5% of Maximas being assembled early that year. It was an extra cost option that came with a full size spare and matching alloy wheel. Having experienced dozens of very touchy control situations at high speed over the years (I was probably the 'king of fistailing'), I will never own a car without electronic stability control.

For me, the 'cherry on top' is a CVT that does exactly what I have been hoping to get from a CVT for at least seven years. It always seems to be at the RPMs I need, is barely sipping gas once up to speed. I expect to be around 30 mpg on freeway trips, which is great for a 3600 pound car with 290 HP. This CVT is a tight, smooth operator. I hope I never have to go back to a tranny that shifts.

As to 'the best Maxima?' Yes, I would say the '09 is the best. I cannot even remember the endless list of features on this car. I didn't own a first gen Maxima, but carpooled with a friend that did, so was familiar with that gen. Beginning with the second gen (I had two 1985 Maximas), I tried to learn everything I could about each gen, and loved driving them all. With no slur intended on those first six very excellent generations, I must say the 7th is the best generation yet. I LOVE my '09.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I've driven the '09 Maxima 3 times now in the last 6 months, trying to figure out if I should make the jump from my 2003 SE 6MT. There are lots of things to like about this car... but after tearing up the road with an Infiniti G35S 6MT, and immediately thereafter with a new G37X 7-speed automatic, I have regrettably come to a decision that the '09 Maxima is lacking.

Particularly on full throttle from a standing start. The car gets all confused, pulling to the right, then the left, then back. Don't get me wrong, the ONLY things I can dis on the new Maxima are the tacky LED dash text, the lack of a manual transmission and the odd effects of FWD with a high-horsepower engine. Other than that, it's a gorgeous, sedan. A HUGE improvement over the 6th Generation. (Particularly in Precision Gray and Frost leather. Awesome combo.)

I'm kind of sad, actually. And I'm writing this only to share the honest opinions of a sincere Maxima enthisiast, twice over.

My advice: give the Infiniti G37 a fair shake before committing to the Maxima. If you're really into what the Maxima brings to the table, then you need to drive the "other" Nissan.

Xeross

Wait are you telling me you are getting significant torque steer in the Max? This confuses me because the couple times I've let go on the throttle(still in the break in period so I'm keeping that to a minimum) I've felt little to no torque steer.

Also, what mode were you in when going full throttle at a stop? D, Ds, or Manual?

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Honestly, I don't think it was torque steer, or at least not in the way I'm used to what torque steer feels like. From a standing start, at full throttle, it yanked one way, then the other, and back again. Almost like a limited slip differential trying to balance things out... which maybe it was, and that's fine except that you still have to steer. So it was... odd.

I had the shifter in DS mode. This whole CVT thing is a difficult concession for me as well. Shift *points* manually selected on an automatic transmission that's continuous? It's a nice implementation and all, but seems kind of pointless. Understand, I drive a 6MT. It's old school compared to all this CVT technology, but it's also a more connected experience.

Also understand, I really, really want to love the '09 Maxima, and do so on many levels. But since I don't have a gun to my head to trade in my '03, the new Maxima had to be spot on perfect in order to buy in.

It's very, very close, but ultimately misses the target. The G37S Sedan 6MT, on the other hand... damn, that's sweet. If I could get the drivetrain and dashboard from the G, but the dimensions and style of the Maxima... that would be the perfect car for 2009.

BlueMax

Well I just can’t resist throwing in my .02. Although I think the Maxima is a great car for me and my wife, I can’t argue with the points Rochester makes. There is no one “perfect” car for everyone or Nissan (and others) would only make one model. I enjoy driving a good manual transmission, even around town, but I don’t like a manual as much in rush hour and that’s when my wife usually drives it.

The ongoing debate on FWD, RWD or AWD again depends on what is important to each person and the kind of driving they do. A big HP RWD Manual is way more fun, but not when it’s snowing! I’ve only punched my new Max hard once so far, and I’m not sure what it was exactly, but I did feel something through the steering wheel. But if you floor the accelerator in a big power RWD car going around a slow corner, I guarantee you will experience “Torque Steer” even if it’s not usually called that.

I don’t think I’m quite as old as lightonthehill (but then who is ) but I don’t need another all out performance car. The Max is quick, and goes around corners well enough to bring a smile when I want to play. Any car has to be a compromise between the different wants and needs of each individual, but for me and the driving I do, the Maxima is by far the best blend of features, comfort, looks and fun that I’ve found.

To me, the Maxima is just a reasonably priced terrific looking performance oriented economical all weather luxury sedan with lots and lots of toys. What’s not to love?

mkaresh

This is torque steer. If torque wasn't being shunted through the front wheels, it wouldn't be happening. Very common behavior in a powerful front-driver. I think the degree to which a car rocks backward under hard acceleration plays a role.

Xeross

It doesn't have shift points in Ds or D mode. It will keep the car in the best power band based on how much gas you are giving it.

For instance I can keep the car at 3k rpm the entire time from 0 to 60+mph. The only "shift points" are in manual where it has a pre-set gear ratio.

I'm coming from a 5MT, and I love the CVT. Once you get a feel for how it works, you can pretty much make it do whatever you want.

mkaresh

Sounds like my kind of...transmission!

gizzsdad

I drove the G a few weeks ago and enjoyed it very much until I got in the back seat. My knees were splayed out and my head was bent over to the side at a 45 degree angle. It would be a great car if I never had to carry anyone.

While I haven't gotten an 09 Max yet - it is still in the mix, as well as the Genesis and CTS.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

That's a reasonable point, Xeross. While I did toss the car around pretty hard on test drives, I never really got a handle on the gear-shift options, certainly not enough to understand or appreciate the technology. A better opinion would be had on an extended, unaccompanied drive. (Geeze... a 4th test drive maybe? You know, I keep turning my head back to the Maxima because that '09 is so damn good-looking. Argh!!)

My Nissan dealer says the Maxima is not selling well, nationally. The Altima and the G37 are squeezing the Maxima market into non-existence. Which could be good news for someone looking to score a good deal, I suppose.

Xeross

I will admit D mode is easier to contol than Ds. D will maintain the powerband where you need it, but Ds does what it needs to give you the most power. I've only driven in Ds for like 5% of the time. I'm trying to be good with the breakin period and every time I go to Ds mode I tend to fly over 4k rpm ^^. If you haven't tried it already, I recommend getting to 60 on the highway, then putting the gas to the floor. It's got a nice MT downshift feel to it. Be careful you will make it to 90+ pretty quick.

NCSUpilot

SO TRUE!!! I just picked mine up lastnight and have had some great fun with it already!

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

I was talking about this to the Service Manager at my local dealership (fantastic guy, even minded auto enthusiast). He knew exactly what I was talking about, and new Maxima owners have been bringing the car into the shop for this "problem".

Get this -- he said it was me, not the car. More specifically the combo of high HP, FWD torque steer and a far more sensitive steering than I'm used to. It's the sensitive steering on the new Maxima. He said I'm reacting to the torque steer, causing the car to shift left, then I'm reacting again causing the car to shift right, etc.

I'm inclined to believe him, and convinced that I need an extended test drive. Just me an the '09 for a few hours, to get a handle on this issue, and to get a handle on the various autostick feature.

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

This weekend only, one of the 4 Nissan dealerships in Rochester, NY is offering $5000 off MSRP for any in-stock Maxima. That's well below invoice.

I'm still not pulling that trigger until Summer, but still, that seems a very good deal.

If only Infiniti offered aggressive promotions like that. Grrrr. Hello fencepost, this is my ***...

mkaresh

It's not you, it's the car. But there's also nothing that can be done about it--it's inherent in the design.

Ford claims to have a new suspension coming that eliminates these effects. I'm looking forward to seeing how well it succeeds.

BLACKNESS MONSTA

U think the 09 Maxima > Infinti M35x...
The new car smell is makin u go crazy

Especially in snow...lol

lightonthehill

Actually, the M35 would have been my second choice after the Maxima. It is a super car. But the '09 Maxima with Premium and Tech packages had everything the M35 had that was of any interest to me. I also preferred the Maxima styling, my Nissan dealer (unlike my aloof Infiniti dealer) has been good to me for over a dozen years, and I was able to get a good rate on a 5 year Certificate of Deposit at my local bank with the big bundle of cash I saved by opting for the Maxima.

Also entering into the equation is that I much prefer FWD to RWD or AWD, much prefer the CVT to old-fashioned shifting trannies, and like that folks here are getting up to 30 and 32 MPG on the freeway with this CVT-driven Maxima. The M35 will probably get around 25 MPG on the freeway, and Consumer Reports measured an overall 19 MPG for all-around driving with the M35. That lack of fuel efficiency in the heavier M35 is not what I am looking for.

I will agree the M35 is a really great car, but why pay much bigger bucks when I can have exactly what I want and need for much less money?

BLACKNESS MONSTA

Yes the M is not as fuel efficient as the Maxima but its AWD and Non CVT transmission are both better for performance. The M35x destroys most competition in the snow including BMW; Infiniti's AWD is pretty amazing. But I have to agree theres nothing on the road that looks quite like the 09 Max (atleast no 4dr fwd sedan)

Rochester

iTrader: (3)

Aw man, I'm getting emotional whiplash with this '09 Maxima. Love it... hate it. Compromise... desire. It's like dating the hot chick who smokes and farts.

I need to get this out of my head for a few months, and come back to it fresh in the Summer.

Xeross

Actually I wouldn't take what he said to heart. Your Service Manager is probably right in that it is the driver that causes most of the torque steer. Obviously any car with a lot of HP and FWD chassis will have torque steer, but with the Maxima over correcting that torque steer will easily drive you in the other direction, then back and forth. The reason I say this is that over time I've gotten less and less torque steer, and I doubt that my car has suddenly corrected itself.

Either it's something electronic(which I HIGHLY doubt), or its me learning not to over-correct. I'm going with the latter.

MaxMus

Dollar for dollar, yes the Maxima is better. The Maxima is almost a second quicker than my M35x if I recall correctly. The Maxima has a better turn in, and way better fuel economy (so far). I also feel a whole lot more confident on the highway with my engine spinning at around 2100 RPM while doing 70 in the Maxima, than the 3100 RPM doing the same in the M.

The M was too much car for me. I don't need Lane Departure warning system that beeps at me when I come out of my lane, I don't need Laser Cruise control (I can count on my hands how many times I actually used this feature), and 99% of the time, I really don't need AWD.

Is the M a more fun car to drive than the Maxima? Yes and No. Because it was so heavy, it's not as nimble as the Max, but it had better road feel.

Norm Peterson

There are geometric reasons involving drive half shaft lengths and angles and compliance reasons involving the control arm bushings (which can allow the front wheels to toe as they deform under load). Care during the design phase can minimize at least the first, but I don't think can eliminate it completely under all possible conditions. The differential itself may be contributing to this, particularly if you are on the verge of making both wheels spin and are getting a little one-wheel slippage that alternates between right side and left. Maybe the traction control (if engaged) is applying too much brake too quickly to a spinning wheel.


Norm

Mastermind1

I was wondering about the same exact thing. When I first got this car, I could swear on WOT it would pull violently to the right. Now on WOT, it feels solidly straight a lot like my previous car (STi). Nowadays I feel zero torquesteer. I didn't understand it- and this might be the reason why. Now, I've got to go play with it. I thought it had something to do with me not being used to drivin a FWD car...

Anyone else care to comment on this?

lightonthehill

I had a touch of torque steer at WOT on my '00 SE, but never on my '04 SL. I think one of the reasons I have not had even a trace of TS with my '09 is that I never even dream of doing anything WOT until I have a few thou on the odo, and it may be that the car has 'learned' a few things about my driving style (reasonably aggressive) in the interim.

A secondary possibility is that, having owned nothing but Maximas since they went FWD in '85, I automatically have a very tight grip on the wheel when doing anything at WOT. In effect, over the years, my Maximas have taught me how to minimize the unpleasantness of sudden torque steer.

lightonthehill

Very intuitive thoughts, Norm, and expressed well.

It makes sense that when the wheels used for steering (automatically involves a lot of geometry) are also used as the drive wheels, then we add in things like Antilock Braking, Traction Control and Electronic Stability Control that are set into motion by any sign of wheel slippage, then we apply lots of power to those front drive wheels, we end up with a fairly complicated situation that can sometimes result in strange things happening.

I think this is one of the reasons pure performance enthusiasts will understandably almost always lean to RWD or AWD.

bk2k3max

DS Mode does not give you the most power from a standing start because it automatically finds the lowest level (as in you shifting a stick to 3rd) to gain the most torque but this kind of defeats the purpose when you are going from a standing start because you are already in the lower end of the powerband and this was reported as one of the reasons why the car is slower from a standing start in DS Mode than in regular D Mode.

I think that youtube video of the one guy driving his Maximas (08-09) in different modes clearly demonstrated the fact that the car was slower in DS Mode from a standing start.

Xeross

Hmm very interesting. This would definitly explain the lack of spin out when flooring it in the rain. I guess Ds mode is good for that atleast . I need to spend more time testing out the different modes obviously. I have not spent enough time in Ds to get the true feel of that mode.

Mick7

"I think that youtube video of the one guy driving his Maximas (08-09) in different modes clearly demonstrated the fact that the car was slower in DS Mode from a standing start."

I wondered why our CVT cars were so fast from 40mph up and so sluggish at lower speeds. I've heard it described as the CVT searching for the proper ratio, etc.

After some reading it would appear that Nissan has a "torque management system" which amounts to a WOT governor below 30mph on the V6 and 38 mph on the V8 trucks.

I recently PMed an owner who races his CVT (6th gen) and has run a 1/4 mile in under 14 seconds. I inquired about the governor being defeated by a less than WOT launch or removed by a reflash since there is no way a virtually stock Max can go that low with that governor working. His reply was courteous but avoided the question completely. I think that answered the question by default.

In searching Titan forums, the removal of the WOT limiter has had striking reductions in 0-60 times. Nissan has apparently approved one company's reprogramming unit and sells it through NISMO. The company, however claims NO benefits for the V6 and does not remove the governor on these engines. My guess...Nissan would not approve the unit if it did remove the governor... due to potential CVT abuse. If this interests you, I'm sure you will do as I did and look some things up. I'm far enough off-topic already.

MaxMus

Does anyone experience this sluggishness below 40mph? I know it starts lugging a bit at lower speeds, but if I need to scoot a bit, i just give the pedal a quarter in mash and the CVT revs the engine a bit higher.

bk2k3max

I don't think that we're talking Off-Topic when speaking about anything that pertains to "The Best Maxima Ever". With that said, I also suspect that Nissan doesn't want the Maxima to be faster than the Z which is probably one of the main reasons besides the possible CVT abuse issues.

Just think about it, how many ppl would actually buy a Z if they can get better gas mileage in a 4 door that carries more ppl, more trunk space, looks better in a Maxima (my own biased opinion-he he)??

I know the Z is more than just about going fast and the thing handles like a charm but I prefer a 4 door damn near anyday over a 2 seater/coupe especially one that looks like our car.

I don't but let's also remember that with these Nissan engines they all come with a learning CPU that remembers your driving habits, in my 03 I used to mash the hell out of that thing from a standstill and that car would take off like a bat out of hell.

I've been mostly gentle on my 09 because I'm trying to treat her (car's name is Zhuzy) like the beautiful Cruiser that she is very delicately. I'm certain that if you routinely/regularly get on the gas hard from a standing start that your ECU will learn your driving curb and adapt to your habits.

So go ahead and beat up that CVT a little bit but remember that after a few hard runs the CVT needs time to dissipate that heat and will not go above 4K RPMs until she has cooled her heels.

Damn, somebody tell Josh (STILLEN) that we need a CVT Tranny Cooler ASAP!!

BLACKNESS MONSTA

Its faster than a 6th gen and those were already pretty darn fast!
And it handles better!
What more do u guyz want!lol

Mick7

Does anyone experience this sluggishness below 40mph? I know it starts lugging a bit at lower speeds, but if I need to scoot a bit, i just give the pedal a quarter in mash and the CVT revs the engine a bit higher.

Oh, yes it moves out well. I'm speaking of WOT from a standstill. The governor is on all the newer V6 engines including the G and the Z. Being more enthusiast type cars, the owners who do race them have "fixed" the problem in most cases. The car has more power than I can use so it isn't a big deal but to some who want more...there is a place to get it. I'm sure Stillen and JWT could make the governor go away quite easily.

bk2k3max

You keep mentioning the governor on these cars but I always thought that the governor on these cars regulated the top speed (limit) and maybe even the Rev Limit but in no form should this affect taking off from a standing start unless you're speaking specifically of the Rev Limiter which doesn't allow our Tach to spin past the 6500 or so limit.

I guess maybe if our cars were allowed to spin all the way to and maybe beyond the 7K RPM then we could possibly gain a few tenths on our 0-60 launches from a standing start but I really don't see how this would matter much seeing that our CVT isn't made to steep into gears like a traditional automatic or to hit shift points like with a Manual tranny.

Can you clarify what it is you're trying to say about the Governor on our cars?

lightonthehill

Knowing absolutely nothing about what I am about to say (but I'll say it anway), Mick7 may be talking about a different type of governor; one that slightly limits the power during WOT at slower speeds, because that would be the speeds at which spinning the wheels is most likely. And why would Nissan prefer the wheels not be spun? Because spinning the wheels on this car brings all sorts of Traction Control, Electronic Stability Control, etc, etc into play, and I wouldn't even guess what might happen when all those functions begin interacting with one another during full throttle. I would think it might not be a pretty sight.

Norm Peterson

CVTs are more sensitive to certain transient operating conditions.

Here's something I came across, and the material of interest starts midway down.

In addition, I think it's possible to introduce shudder or chatter, neither of which is good for durability. Electronic throttles can easily be dialed back from wide open to part throttle by the PCM, regardless of what the driver's right foot is requesting, so power can be controlled independently of any rev limit setting. All it takes is more lines of code and another lookup table or two.

FWIW, I think torque management is used in at least 1st gear and possibly 2nd in the huge power Mercedes-Benz models, though likely for a different reason.


Norm