dan1el

I have an oil leak that hits the ground between the oil filter and the oil pressure switch. I have replaced the oil pan gaskets twice and the valve cover gaskets and the car is still leaking the same amount in the same spot. It leaks more the warmer the car gets and the higher my rpms go and it only leaks when I run the car. I suspect it's the timing chain cover as the leak is to far back to be the front oil seal. Are there any other seals I should check? I don’t know of any seals in that area other than the TC cover seal. Is there any good step by step online for removing the TC cover? I searched the forum not just with the internal search box but I searched the forum with google as well (site:forums.maxima.org timing chain cover) and so far haven’t found much info other than “it’s a PITA”. I have a few specific questions:

-I have read that there are 2 bolts in the upper oil pan that hold the TC cover. Can anyone tell me which ones? I don’t want to remove the upper oil pan to change the TC cover if I can avoid it. If I know which bolts, I can remove the lower pan and then just take those 2 bolts out.
-My manual says to remove the UIM and the valve covers, but I want to know if that is really necessary. Can I remove the right engine mounting and the hoses and other stuff on the TC side of the engine or do I really have to get that other stuff off?
-Would it be easier just to get the engine out instead of working with it in the car?

Any advice would be greatly appreciated. I hate to sound lazy, but I don’t want to add 5 hours worth of work by removing the UIM and valve covers and both oil pans if it’s not necessary.

FallenOne

iTrader: (17)

are you sure its not the oil pressure switch itself... They have a reputation for leaking and through the sensor at that, mine does; its just a healthy reminder to change my oil every 3 for me..

how much is leaking, and remember to search for the leak up high before down low..

dan1el

Pretty sure it’s not for a few reasons:

1-My brother-in-law already replaced it thinking that same thing.
2-The leak is high enough to appear like it’s coming from the upper oil pan’s back right corner (looking at the headlights).
3-I have read that the pressure switch its self would sort of spray a little since it’s pressurized and the leak is more of a flow while the car is running.

The highest point I can see with oil on it (I used a florescent dye you put in with the oil) is the back right bolt in the upper oil pan. This is the only bolt on the upper oil pan on the passenger side that is outside of the lower oil pan.

FWIW it’s a 97 I30

FallenOne

iTrader: (17)

hmmm, well you could always ghetto it! get some good RTV or JB!
Oh and just for reference in the future.. the I30 and Maxima are the exact same.. minus a few options.. and plus a few cooler body panels..

dan1el

That would be ok with me if I could ever put eyes on the source of the leak lol! It is in a terrible spot and I can't see it even with the oil pans off and the UIM and valve covers off. I bought my first tool set 3 weeks ago and this is the first car I've ever seen the bottom of. If I was a little more experienced I would just drop the engine and find the leak while it's out of the car. I've read a few posts saying that would be easier and that it's better to pay a mechanic for the labor, but my dirt cheap mechanic quoted me $750 to do the TC cover seals, and it doesn't sit right with me to pay someone $750 for a job that the parts cost <$10 just because I don't know how to do the work. I will learn it just to show that I can.

I only bought it because it was $2400 with only 130K miles and it runs really smooth. I didn't even know what burning oil smelled like when I bought it and now I am going crazy trying to fix the leak.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

The TC cover oil leak is pretty common. I'm suprised you haven't found more info on here. It's definately a time consuming job. I think the UIM and valve covers have to come off so you can get down into the cover from above. That's not hard to do, maybe 20 min tops to remove them. I believe the leak happens where the TC cover mates to the upper oil pan. We tried to fix my buddies I30 by removing the upper oil pan and resealing it. The leak got better, but never went away completely. You will see the two bolts on the upper pan once you get into it.

Good luck!

dan1el

I used the following search in google to find all the info on timing chain covers in forums.maxima.org

http://www.google.com/#hl=en&source=...6c7832dbb01be6

It's the most powerful search method for looking through the forum in my opinion since it uses google instead of the internal search engine. only 230 results and I checked the first few pages until the info started getting pretty irrelevant.

I have actually already replaced the oil pan gaskets twice and the valve cover gaskets once trying to fix this leak. I am pretty familiar with the oil pans now. I even know how many bolts, what size, the tighening sequence and the torque recommendation by memory lol. But I was wondering If I could get away with only removing the 2 bolts from the upper pan that tie into the TC cover. I know I can expose all the bolts in the upper pan by removing the lower pan, and since the last time I did the upper gasket I went to the inside of the bolt holes as recommended, I assume that removing the two bolts and replacing them later won't cause a new leak. That way I don't have to take down the front exhaust, the air compreesor, or the center member (trying to do this without and engine hoist; just a 260 pc Craftsman mechanics set which is the first set I've ever toucheed) or scrape the upper gasket. That would probably cut me about 6 hours off the job since It took me 12 hours to do it the first time and 7 hours to do it the second time.

If anyone knows which 2 bolts I need to take out of the upper pan, it would be greatly appreciated.

ATTappman

You managed to replace both valve cover gaskets, remove and replace the upper oil pan, etc., without making the leak worse, and with only a few weeks of experience working on cars, and nothing but a Cman tool set - I think that's pretty darn impressive.

Flat rate labor for R&R'ing a timing chain cover is 10.8 hours. There's probably no easy way to do it.

dan1el

Thanks for the complement. I was pretty stoked about it myself, but I really had no choice. I didn't have the money to spend on letting a professional do the oil pan and VC gaskets just to have the leak still going. Both mechanics I took it to said those are the culprits. Nissan quoted me $1300 for the Pans and the VC's and my dirt cheap mechanic quoted about half that. He said the parts are like $10 for a tube of RTV and I said, "It sounds like I am gonna learn a bit about cars." My uncle is a mechanic that works on mostly domestic cars, and he told me it's not rocket science. "Use your head, follow manual, and if it's in your way move it". So I did.

Out of curiosity what does R&Ring mean if not rest and relaxation lol.

And does anyone see a problem with only removing the 2 bolts in question to avoid removing the exhaust, compressor, center member, and the upper pan?

ATTappman

R&R - remove and replace.

maxi_pad

I have a 97 maxima and ever since I got it the oil has Bren leaking on the passenger side . It hits the oil filter when it leaked and it only leakes when I'm driving. I would love to fix it my self but I have never really went down there to check it out. Except to change the oil and oil filter. It would be cool if someone could find a way to fix then with a walkthroug. And pics

dan1el

I will definitely do a total walk through with pics included when I get to it, but I was really hoping someone could answer my question about which 2 oil pan bolts hit the TC cover. I will give it a few more days and tackle it this weekend.

maxi_pad

Yeah I dont know what 2 bolts u need to take off. All I know is I seem to have the same problem as u lol..

TLMNICK

iTrader: (1)

I hear that one of the most common leaks on the 4th gens is the front crank seal. when the car is running, the crank and the crank pulley throw oil all over the place.

dan1el

Unfortunately I don't think that's it. I can run the car and watch it flow down from above. The highest I can see from under the car is the back left bolt on the upper oil pan and I can't see any higher than that really, but it is a pretty heavy flow after it warms up good.

This weekend I will tear into the thing and change the timing chain cover seals. I will do a thorough walkthrough with pics and step-by-step instruction because I can't find any good instruction online. I was just hoping someone could tell me if leaving the upper pan on while I reseal the TC cover would cause a problem.

barnone

Did you read through this?

http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...ain-cover.html

dan1el

Thank you so much. That is exactly what I needed to know. I hate that I couldn't find that thread even with Google. Oh well. I am gonna do a complete walkthrough with pics so anyone can do this.

barnone

No problem. I remember running into that thread some time ago on a peripherally related search.

Nissandro

Dan1l and all the Maxima owners out there,

The oil leak described by Dan1L is pretty common in Maximas when they reach the 100,000 Miles and over. I have a Maxima GLE 1998. What you will notice is that you have oil coming from all over in the engine compartment. This is a serious problem not just becase you have oil all over but because that oil will ruin the bushings on the transverse link; very important part in your front suspension. If that is the case the damage is more significant $$$$$. This already happened to my Maxima. It is something you can do yourself but its time consuming and requires some skills. In adittion the car needs to be safely jacked all the way up so you can easily access the areas under the engine.
Because it already happened to my car my hones advise is to take your car to a mechanic you trust. Not the dealer they will charge an arm and a leg. The good news is you dont have to remove the TCC (timing chain cover). This is what I'd have your mechanic do:
1- Valve cover gasket
2- Oils switch
3- Oil pan gasket
4- Aluminium Oil Pan Gasket (This is where the oil leak is coming from. This is particularly sensitive procedure cause it is aluminium and and has many bolts. it has to be disasembled following a particular pattern. It has to be left overnight in some sort od solution to remove all the pieces of the old gasket. You cannot scrape it; remember it is aluminium. In other words it is a very involved task.)
5- In adittion to the gaskests it is highly recomended to replace the the front and rear seals. Very likely your engine leak is coming from one of these as well.
6- While you disasemble all that you may want to replace the knock sensor and the spark plugs. Might as well do it there so you dont have to pay extra for that job alone.

Here is another tip, dont take your car to the dealer becausue they will charge you for each and every separate job....It will be a fortune. If you take your car to a good knowlegable honest mechanic he will tell you that beacause he will have to pull the lower aluminium oil pan most of the seals and gaskets have to be replace anyways. the whole repair should not be more than 10 hours. I want this advise to be usefull for all of you out there so The Nissan Dealer wont take advantage of the loyal Maxima owners. Lastly for those of you in the Westminister, CA area I can recomend the guy who fixed My maxima for me. Very knowledgable and honest; he only kept the car for two days so he made sure there were not any oil leaks after replacing all the parts I mentioned above. You can contact him at 714-799-3010 Mike's repairs.

Good luck and I hope my information helps.

Nissandro

dan1el

Nissandro,

As mentioned above in my posts, I have replaced:

1-Valve cover gaskets and grommets (front and back)
2- Oil pressure switch (just for good measure, not because I actually thought it was leaking)
3- Lower Oil pan gasket (four times first using the solid rubber gasket sold at the parts store and later Super Black RTV)
4- Aluminium Oil Pan Gasket (Two times)

On the upper (aluminum) pan, I used no “od solution” but rather a small allen wrench and a box cutter razor knife. This procedure worked PERFECTLY FINE. Then I cleaned the mating surfaces with Clorox wipes to remove the oil and followed spec when putting the bead of RTV on the mating surface of the pan. After putting her back together, I can see a perfectly dry, perfectly solid gasket all the way around the entire pan with no leaks.

I have two main points to this long drawn out post:

1-I am a customer service rep for an electrical cable manufacturer and a part time computer programmer, and I had never seen the underbelly of a car in my life until I bought this car 6 weeks ago. I own a 260 piece Craftsman mechanic’s tool set I bought the day after Thanksgiving for $160 and a $7 PDF full service manual, and I did all of the above (my younger brother-in-law did the oil pressure switch for school) with no experience and I did it in about 4 days. I did the work just fine and learned a crazy amount about my car. My dirt cheap mechanic I have used for a long time quoted me $700 to do both of the vc gaskets and the oil pans. If you make more than $175 per day, and/or don’t like learning important, useful things then by all means drop your car off at the mechanic shop and go watch TV all weekend. Otherwise buy some ****ies and get dirty.

2-After each attempt to fix the leak, there wasn’t the slightest change. It still leaks in the same spot and the exact same amount (I measure it every time I get home from work). Common sense tells me a) that I didn’t make the leak worse and b) that the leak was not in any of the spots I worked on so far. Again, if I would have paid my mechanic $700 to do the work, it would still be leaking and I wouldn’t have a tool set to show for it and still wouldn’t know jack about my car. So, it is possible that it is not the Timing chain cover, but I know it’s not the pans or the vc’s. On top of that, I don’t have oil coming from “all over in the engine compartment”. I have a leak dripping between my oil filter and my oil pressure switch as I mentioned in an earlier post. This means that it is not the rear oil seal. I also know that it is not the front oil seal as I followed the leak up as high as the upper oil pan, and then I can’t see any further. I will still be taking apart my TC this weekend to investigate the leak further and not waste a ton of money on a mechanic.

I hope I don’t sound like a jerk, and I’m not trying to rip you especially since I don’t know too much about cars. However the advice you gave in your last post sounds, in my opinion, like some really bad advice and I hope no one takes it straight to heart without doing some research.

I would greatly appreciate it if one of the seniors on the .org either rips me a new one or backs me up to clarify the issue.

Dan1el

dan1el

BTW I also changed the spark plugs. Nissan quoted me $199, and it took me 45 minutes including my trip to Autozone and cost me less than $20.

Nissandro

chill out man.... bottom line, your car still leaks oil.

dan1el

That's absolutely right, but it's better than having paid a ton of money and still having the leak. And when I manage to finally fix the leak, I will only be out a couple hundred bucks and have a great amount of knowledge about my car and be able to fix problems that arise in the future with a good deal of confidence.

Again, I wasn't trying to rip you man. I just don't like the idea of encouraging people to spend money if it's not necessary. And if someone like me with no experience can do all the things you advised to have done by a mechanic, then I don't want people to think it's more complicated than it really is. And with resources like the .org people can find instruction on almost anything. If people think that a job is harder than it really is, they will be more likely to get scared and pay someone else to do it. I could have saved a ton of money over the years if I wasn't so scared that I couldn't do the work.

BTW, I won't be doing the TC this weekend after all because it is like 35 degrees outside. That's might as well be -50 deg for a native Houstonian lol.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

I'm going to throw my .02 in here, mainly due to the fact that I am in the middle of the same job, only after doing half of the job in August, just to start it, see it leaking and tear it down again. Yea, I was not happy. I wouldnt think that the 97 would have this problem as I have only really heard about it in the 95's and 96's, but What I honestly think it is, is the o-rings between the block and the INNER timing cover. Judging from what I have read here, the OP is of the same opinion. "and it doesn't sit right with me to pay someone $750 for a job that the parts cost <$10 just because I don't know how to do the work." From What has been replaced, I still feel strongly that this is what the leak is because I replaced the same parts myself throughout the last year and the leak progressively got worse.

This pic is with the outer cover off, and the power steering pump is dangling off the the left out of frame. This should be the approximate area of your leak:


In my opinion, you should just go ahead and take the whole upper oil pan off. You will also need the valve covers off as you have to remove all the timing gear to get the inner cover off and to do so have to use an adjustable wrench on the cams to loosen the spprocket bolts. While you are here, you might as well replace the water pump and timing chain tensioner. Great insurance measure there.

Your cleaning method is OK with the bleach, but i think i would go to Lacquer thinner on the metal parts to clean their mating surfaces. It's a cleaning agent, and dries clean as well. I can't tell you how much I have used on my Maxima's and no problems what-so-ever. And to the dude that said you can't scrape the pans?? Bull. I use just about everything imagineable to clean my old RTV. From putty knives to my bench grinder (ever so lightly mind you)

But other than the general knowledg I have from doing the outer cover the first time and the RMS and trans rebuild on my other Max, it really isn't that hard and I have just looked at the FSM for bolt removal patterns and torque specs. There is A LOT to remove which, I think, is why a lot of people call it a PITA. It just takes a lot of time. And yes, I am doing mine in the engine bay. Didn't really see a reason to pull it.

OP - if you have anymore questions, just ask!

NM91

dan1el

I need some help with orientation, but I think that is exactly where the leak is. I tried to make this easy by adding arrows or something, but apparently I can't add images to my posts yet. Is the cable to the left the crankshaft position sensor? Is the o ring on the bottom right the one that mates the upper oil pan to the oil pump?. If it is, then the area you circled is exactly the source.

The leak has always been dripping down onto the crankshaft position sensor and hitting the ground just behind the oil filter. And there has always been a lot of oil on the bolt in the bottom right of the red circle.

Please advise if my orientation is correct, and if so I can now rejoice for having found the source and cry because I have to take the pans off for a third time lol.

Questions:

1-Is it hard to get the timing right when you put the gear back on or does the FSM detail it pretty well?

2-Any idea what you will replace the o rings with? I don't want to see the inside of the TC again for at least 200k miles lol.

3-Any particular reason you suggest taking the upper pan off? I'll take your advice, but I want to understand why so I can apply the same thinking moving forward.

Thanks, Dan1el

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

The cable to the left there is going down to all the lower sensors; Oil Pressure switch and crank position sensor. If it were a straight on shot, that would be directly on the front of the motor as in the crank pulley side.

Yes, that o-ring is on the bottom of the oil pump that goes between the pump and the upper oil pan.

1) For the timing, MAKE SUR when you take it all apart, the motor is at TDC (top dead center) the FSM clearly states to do this as well. If you do that, it is fairly straight forward to put all the timing gear back on.

2) Call Dave Burnett down at South Pointe Nissan: 1-888-254-6060. He's a great guy and knows his stuff. Just tell him you need the parts to replace the o-rings between the block and inner cover. He should hook you up with everything then; those o-rings, o-rings between the upper oil pan and oil pump, upper oil pan lip seals, new crank seal, etc. It is all factory parts at a good price compared to your local Nissan dealer.

3) I guess it isn't completely necessary to take the upper oil pan off, but in my mind, I think it would be MUCH easier to do the job with it off. More room to work under the car, in case you drop any parts, etc.

And as I stated before, I STRONGLY suggest you replace the water pump and timing chain tensioner since you have to take it all off anyway. It is just good insurance to do so on these motors. Once again, I would get these from Dave Burnette as well.

Edit: Also when you do this job, since the water pump is being removed, you have to at least drain the coolant from the block. So you will need coolant as weel.

NM91

dan1el

Thanks a lot man. I know that is exactly where the leak is coming from.

Yeah I read that in the FSM and was totally lost. Now I know it means Top Dead Center, but how do I ensure that? I wasn't able to find instruction in the FSM. It just says to rotate the crank until it is at TDC. Any advice?

i called Dave and he really helped me out a lot. He got me a good deal on the seals/gaskets/o rings and the guide and tensioner. However the pump he said is like $80 and I could buy a new one on ebay for like $30 with a 1 year warranty. I know it's not Nissan product, but do you think it's worth the extra cash to get Nissan? And how can I tell if my pump is in good condition already? I bought the car 6 weeks ago, and for all I know the prev owner replaced the pump a few k miles ago (it's at 130000). It definitely has no heating/cooling problems and no coolant leaking either.

Thanks. I don't really see it being easier since I thought I was going in from the top, but I'm going to take your advice and remove it. I might as well since the FSM says to and I plan on doing a complete walkthrough with pics so anyone can do it per spec in the future. Not sure how since I can't post pics in my posts lol. I will probably just have to do it on a blogger blog or wordpress and link out.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

I don't trust myself on how to tell you to find TDC. It says in the FSM somewhere. I just don't have my manual here, and my digital copy is on my other PC that decided to take a dump over Christmas I will get back to you on this once I find my copy and can possibly explain it better. Just give me some time…

I still highly suggest the water pump, and from Nissan. I had it replaced on this car not 30K miles ago at the shop I was taking them to at the time (this was before I had time to do any of this work and didn't do ALL my work myself) and they put in an ACDelco pump. Noisy as hell, which I didn't like, so for $80 I wasn't unhappy about it. But hey, your money your car. Just a great peace of mind in my opinion.

Yea, you will be under the car a lot more than you think, trust me. So get it jacked up as high as you can.

dan1el

I found some info on TDC in the section on Valve Clearance. Not real detailed. i think I'll have to get under it to make sense of it all.

I think I will take the valve covers off before I try to find TDC so I can see i better. If that doesn't make sense, it's because I know nothing about cars lol. But I'm thinking taking the VC's off will help. Any advice?

dan1el

Didn't get to open it up this weekend as we had family over, but it's on the list for next weekend for sure.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

Sorry man, been sick as a dog all weekend and this is the first I've even felt like sitting at a pc. Needless to say, I didn't get any work done on mine either.

Opening the valve cover will not help you find TDC. There is a tab on the water pump cover and there is indentations on the crank pulley and you line those up. I'll get a pic up as soon as I can get out to my other Max that is drivable. lol.

FallenOne

iTrader: (17)

See Sig.

dan1el

Call me a noob, but how would one go about seeing sig.? I don't see a signature in your post.

NISSANMAXIMA91

iTrader: (1)

Thanks man!

dan1el, He was the second poster and his sig is on that post.

On EM-24 there is a great Illustration as to where TDC is. Look at that and it should be self explanitory.

dan1el

Got it. I actually found the sig on another thread while browsing. I already had the I30 manual but downloaded the Maxima one just to see if it had any differences.

I had already seen the pictures of placing it at TDC, but I didn't know what I was looking for. Plus it doesn't say what to do to get it there, it just says set piston #1 to TDC and gives the picture. I was confused, but I read your last post about the tab on the pump cover and the indentations on the pulley and it all makes sense now.

Are the different indentations marking different pistons or what?

rneedles

Dan, when you do find out the main source of oil leak, please let me know. I have 98 Maxima with a 190,000 leaking from about the same proximity. Changed valve covers, oil sensor, lower oil pan gasket and still leaks. Was under car today and seems to be coming from top behind oil pump or TC. I agree with you, will not pay someone a ridiculous amunt of money to fix. After reading many posts about oil leaks, I believe it has to be the TC or oil pump. Keep me updated and good luck.

dan1el

Meedles,

I recommend you get some uv dye for engine oil and a uv light (about $20 at autozone) to help find the leak. I did and with the right front tire off I could see oil covering the bolt in the bottom right area of the red circle in NISSANMAXIMA91's picture above. When he showed me the picture I knew it was exactly where mine was leaking. I'll post with an update and a complete walkthrough on changing the 2 o rings behind the tc case and you can use it to guide you if necesarry.

wazim

First of all I'm new here So i apologize in advance if my posting is on the wrong thread etc ..etc..

I have a 2005 Nissan maxima SL. 91,400 miles.
Just recently I noticed a small oil leak coming from the oil pan area, ( just to the right and below the oil filter ). You can't see it actually leaking but after about a night just letting the car sit I see small puddle on the ground. I took the car to a mechanic to check it out and he said it was the supply hose from the power steering pump that was loose, so he reinstalled the hose clamp on it and called it good. the very next day I noticed the same leak, and I am sure it's engine oil cause well...it looks like ENGINE OIL and it's coming from the oil pan.
at 78000 miles, my nissan dealership had the engine out to perform a SB for the timing chain tensioners. they only warrant their work for 12000 miles but i'm 400 miles over that. Upon inspection of the oil pan I also notice that a part of the oil pan mating surface looks bent, and the liquid sealant ( looks like over squeeze ) is peeling off. Anyway, I need some help on trying to fix this leak.
any advice? what should i do to get it fixed? It's starting to really bug me out. it's real small but I don't wanna chance it cause I drive about 100 miles a day..( highway ).
it also looks like the leak only happends when the car is just sitting there. Then again I have no way to know if it's actually leaking while im driving too.. HELP PLEASE.

Thanks
wazim.

Wazim.Karim@gmai.com

dan1el

Wazim,

Yes you are posting in the wrong thread and the wrong forum. This forum is for 95-99 maximas. you should talk to the folks in the 6th gen forum at:

http://forums.maxima.org/6th-generat...-2004-2008-48/

But just my $0.02 about the leak. If it's leaking at night when the engine is not running, then it's likely coming from the lower oil pan gasket. When the car shuts off, the oil drips into the lower pan, so if the leak were any higher up, it would likely not leak while the car is off. Talk to the guys in the 6th gen forum, but it is super easy to change the lower pan gasket on the 4th and 5th gen. Just drain the oil, remove the bolts, and pry the pan off (it's sealed with silicon). If you haven't you should download the Factory Service Manual for the 2005 Max. all that will be detailed in there.

dan1el

Guys,

I am having trouble getting the crank pulley bolt off. I searched and it looks like a lot of people set a breaker bar on the bolt, wedge it against the ground and then turn the key to break the bolt loose. I think it's a good option, and I have already removed the fuel pressure fuse and released the fuel pressure so the car won't be able to start. But I was wondering if anyone can tell me if this will mess up the piston position. I have to set #1 at TDC and I am worried this method will through that off. Can I break the bolt this way and then turn the pulley by hand to reset to TDC?

Thanks