steven614

The sales dude approached me as I was looking under the hood of one of the new Maximas they had with its hood popped, and told me it was "pretty cool, huh?" I turned to him and said, "it's nice and all, but I'm curious to know if you've heard anything about the '09's?" The next thing he said shocked, and intrigued me a little, and I was curious if anyone had heard about it before...He told me Nissan has a diesel platform coming out for the '09! I couldn't believe that, but then I thought about it and said, hey, maybe the Maxima.org guys know something about it. Anyways, long story short: NEW DIESEL PLATFORM, ANYONE HEAR ABOUT IT?

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

old news. a few threads about it. said to come 2010.

SilverMax_04

Diesel engines are great for low (engine) speed torque, but not that exciting a ride in a "4-door Sports Car." They will give better mileage than the VQ, but cost much more when the vehicle is first bought. While many of the newer diesel engines are quieter than those from earlier years, they still are noisy (and IMHO, it's not a "sexy" noise).

Give me a high-reving gasoline engine that "kicks-but" over a noisy, smelly, slower diesel engine -- any day. Particularly in my "sports car."

And now diesel fuel is almost consistently more expensive that gasoline, reducing some of the economy from having diesel power.

Matts04Maxima

Not true about diesels being slower... check out the Benz E-class Bluetek. it's just as fast with a 30% increase in city MPG (27MPG city / 37MPG hwy) and only has something less than a $3,000 increase over a regular V-6 getting only 19MPG city

Crusher103

iTrader: (10)

from what I hear diesels are turning into some killers fuel efficient and getting pretty fast so I wouldn't be surprised if Nissan hops on the band wagon

lightonthehill

Steven - THE MAN (Goshn) publically announced the Maxima diesel last winter. Said it would probably happen around 2010, and would be very powerful.

I have never been a huge diesel fan. Some service stations don't even sell diesel fuel. Very few stations other than truck stops have more than one diesel pump. I would probably end up waiting a turn at the pump behind a semi taking on 120 gallons.

Having used diesel for years in farm tractors, I find it to be a stinky, almost greasy concoction. Having said that, diesel engines today are vastly better (quieter, virtually no smoke, very powerful) than just two or three years ago.

A diesel engine usually costs more up front, but is reliable, and usually lasts for several hundred thousand miles.

Diesel fuel now costs somewhat around the price of regular, but is well below the price of premium, and gives measurably better mpg than gasoline.

A lot will depend on how Nissan 'muffles' the diesel. If they can obtain a powerful sound and throbbing reverberation without any clatter or 'truck-like' noises, it might be something some folks would seriously consider.

I know I plan to check one out when they arrive. I would expect that to be maybe as early as summer 2009 as the 2010 models are arriving.

As least, unlike with the CVT, Maxima fans will have the option of diesel or gasoline.

SilverMax_04

There may be diesel engines out there that red-line above 6 K RPM -- but I have not seen them. Diesels are known for huge torque at low RPMs --- not what you need in a sports car. I will wait to pass judgement on the Nissan diesel, but will not get excited.

Around here, diesel is selling for 2.99 a gallon and premium for about 2.89. (I buy regular for as low as 2.67.) But this changes all of the time as the supply and demand for each fuel changes.

CanadianMoFo

Wouldn't that mean low 0-60 times. Huge torque available in 1st and 2nd as you accellerate from a stop?

CM

monkeyfist

If you want good mileage, noise and a dirty azzend its 4 u. But if you want quick starts, speed and the usual thrills stick to the original that made Maxs what they are.

Ritz

iTrader: (2)

it'd only help off the line... once you top out first gear, your second gear shift will not be down in the low-end torque band.. it'd be over 4k rpm's..

and redline can be changed with different cams and heads..

chernmax

iTrader: (15)

Salesman =

SilverMax_04

Nissan will probably have a different trannie for the diesel. When I bought my Dodge truck, Chrysler offered a 5-speed manual trannie for all gasoline engines and the Diesel engine had a 6-speed manual trannie. I tried to get this close-ratio 6-speed for my gasoline engine, but was told it was restricted to the diesel engine only.

Most Diesel engines have a lower red-line than the comparably sized gasoline engine -- often below 4 K RPM. Thus, for these engines, added close-ratio gears are needed. So, for this engine the CVT trannie may be just what is needed -- with different computer settings to handle the differences in the diesel engine.

steven614

Thanks for the input everyone... It sounds like a pretty cool option for the new car...now I'm just curious to see what it will look like and if they make an AWD platform.

Rich96

iTrader: (2)

I race motorcycles, so I've got an 01 Powerjoke to haul my trailer.

I'm really not that impressed with the diesel. I put on a chip, intake, and exhaust. I got more power, but the MPG is still pretty pathetic. I usually get about 15 - 17. Towing my 16 foot enclosed trailer, I get 8 - 11. Maintenance is a PITA, diesel costs more, and the truck was expensive.

I'll buy a half ton gas next time. The newer gas trucks are just as good as the diesels. And being a Nissan fan, it will probably be a Titan.

DeusExMaxima

iTrader: (1)

F<>k diesels. I aint buyin no stinkin diesels. First the CVT and now diesels? - jeez. I think ill have my 6 speed gas engine Maxima for a looong time.

Nietzsche

iTrader: (7)

What's with all the dissing on diesels? A good diesel engine requires less maint. and will last longer than a gas. Mileage is improved and hasn't anyone else noticed diesels popping up more in racing...and winning. They exhaust doens't smell on a good design and the noise is fairly low on newer technology. It's a good trend if implemented correctly.

lightonthehill

Nietzsche is correct. Not only are the newest diesels rather quiet, noisefree, smokefeee and stinkfree, they are easier to service, generally last several hundred thousand miles, require less maintenance, use a fuel that usually costs less than premium gas, get more MPG on that fuel, and, if Goshn is to be believed, will have MORE POWER than the gasoline engines which 'doubting Thomases will also still have available every year in Maximas.

I find having a diesel engine OPTION available for the Maxima in 2010 very exciting.

SilverMax_04

"light" is [generally] correct. I've left his words above that are (IMHO) not exactly correct.

- New diesel engines are quieter than older diesel engines. But they are certainly not "noisefree" and are not as quiet as a comperably-sized gasoline engine.

- Historically, diesel fuel has been cheaper per gallon than gasoline. But in the last few years, this has not always been the case. Also, as more diesel engines appear on our roads, the demand for diesel fuel will increase and push the price per gallon consistently above that for gasoline. It is a simple case of supply and demand, as demand goes up, so will the price. Existing refineries were designed to supply gasoline by cracking heavier hydro-carbons into gasoline. They will need to be modified to supply more diesel fuel in the future. I predict that diesel prices per gallon will remain above gasoline prices through most of the future.

- Diesel fuel contains more energy per gallon than gasoline. This fact is the major reason that diesel engines get better mpg's than gasoline engines. The other reason is that diesel engines are slightly more efficient than gasoline engines. Bur diesel engines are dirty compared to gasoline engines, and thus require more frequent motor oil changes.

- Diesel engines are known for low [engine speed] torque and don't normally have high RPM red-lines. They have the torque power but may not have the quick, high speed take-off of Nissan gasoline engines. I will believe they are "fast" when I see that they are in fact "fast."

Thus, diesel engines have trade-offs when being compared with gasoline engines. I've yet to see a diesel engine that I would want to pay more money to own -- versus the comparable gasoline engine. And given the cost to build diesel engines, they will always be more expensive that the comparable gasoline engine.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Oh, you mean the first generation Nissan Maxima with the 2.8L Diesel engine?

SMOKIN'MAX

You can expect it to look like the current Infiniti M35- same body style but not the RWD platform , although AWD is a likely (and costly...and heavy) option.

gorgeousyvette

i have heard so much about the diesel max coming out in 2010..i think it would be better in a way because diesel where im at is cheaper and it lasts way longer and is stronger gas..figure diesel is used on trucks so imagine the benefits it will have for the max..

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

i dnt get why ppl are thinking of huge loud, hard to start trucks or heavy machinary. Welcome to the technological age ppl, new technology allows for quick, reliable starts, and resolutions to the noise. Plus just about twice the gas milage, yall can keep your gas guzzling gasoline powered engines, im going diesel when they come out, and ill pass by you at the pump, and pass by you at the 1/4 mile track.

heres the engine for the 2010

"Renault 3.0L V6 dCi Concept Diesel to be the Basis for Nissan 2010 Tier 2 Bin 5 Maxima Diesel in US
10 September 2007

The Renault V6 dCi Concept. Click to enlarge. Drawing: H. Vincent
Nissan North America, Inc. confirmed that a concept advanced diesel engine unveiled in Frankfurt by its Alliance partner Renault will be the basis for the US Tier 2 Bin 5 compliant diesel engine planned for the Nissan Maxima in 2010. (Earlier post.)

The 3.0-liter V6 dCi Concept engine was designed within the Renault-Nissan Alliance with Renault having much of the engineering responsibility and Nissan providing performance target settings and package optimization. The companies will market the engine separately in keeping with the Alliance commitment to maintain each company’s distinct brand identity.

Specifications for the engine to be used in the Maxima have not been fully determined.


The V6 dCi Concept graph. Click to enlarge.
The 3.0-liter V6 dCi Concept. The V6 dCi Concept is a preview of a coming new generation of 3.0-liter V6 diesel engines. The new 2,993cc block is derived from the 2.0 dCi engine, with which it shares 25% of its components. The engine develops 195 kW (261 hp) of power and maximum torque of 550 Nm (406 lb ft) at 1,750 rpm with targeted CO2 emissions of less than 200g/km.

The common rail fuel injection system uses two rails pressurized at 1,800 bar which supply 7-hole piezo-electric injectors. This configuration supports up to five injections per cycle. “Ultra-fast” ceramic technology glow plugs enable almost instantaneous preheating and cold starting.

The V6 dCi Concept also includes a variable geometry turbocharger, which generates a high level of torque even at very low revs.

The engine’s air intake ducts have been specially designed to increase combustion speed inside the cylinders by swirling the air in the cylinders—the swirl effect. Cooled EGR (Exhaust Gas Recirculation), which uses a Renault-patented air/water intercooler, contributes to overall environmental performance of the engine.

The architecture of the exhaust manifolds has been designed to limit load losses and ensure that the maximum amount of energy is delivered to the turbine.

The V6 dCi Concept introduces a new NOx trap. Alongside the catalytic converter, this device is located on the exhaust line between the turbocharger and the particulate filter. The engine is also fitted with a maintenance-free, periodic regeneration particulate filter, which operates using a seventh fuel injector located upstream of the filter. Regeneration occurs automatically, with no need for intervention from the user.

Renault says that the various production versions of the V6 dCi will also be compatible with the use of B30 biodiesel."

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2007...t-30l-v6-.html

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

261hp and 406 tq hmmmm just about the same hp, over 150 lb ft torque more than todays maxima, 30-40% better gas milage, and rediculous engine life. yaaaa diesels suck!!!!

SilverMax_04

Buy one ! Drive one ! Then tell me how great diesel engines are.

Until then, it is all just auto-maker hype.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

Well i will see how the cars are soon, mayb not a maxima but my mother is in the market for a new car and is going diesel, either the new 2008 jetta, or the new e320 bluetech diesel. Alot of car companies are going this route, so i doubt its all a big flop

bb700092

I think the diesel will neither be a hit nor a flop. Remember, a few years back when the car manufacturers hyped about the hybrids? Then it seemed as if soon the gasolines will become extinct and there will be only hybrids all over producing 60mpg in the city. But now that hybrids have been in the market for quite a few years, how many people are actually interested in buying one? Why does the hybrid Altima come with limited availability? The Maxima barely produces 20mpg in the city while the hybrid Altima supposedly produces 35mpg. And as always, the gas prices are on the rise. Even then, were more 07 hybrid Altimas sold than 07 Maximas? Just a few questions to ponder over.

After all, it takes a considerable time for the general people to accept a change and only those changes that are proven to be superior are eventually accepted, the hybrids being a very good example. I personally feel that the 2010 diesel Maxima will be an instant hit is too much to expect.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

i think people shy away from hybrids well becasue they are slow, and small, and also cost an arm and leg more to purchase and to fix. Look at the hybrid market, prius, civic, accord, etc all small slow *** cars. The only ones that are good on performance are 50K lexuses. If you look at the pros and cons of diesel they come out on top vs gasoline, i think it will take some time and the maxima wont be a hit becasue it will be new, but eventually diesels will appeal to more and more people, and become more and more advanced.

bb700092

Hybrids like Accord, Camry and Altima are not small cars, at least not smaller than their gasoline counterparts. Also, how do you know how much the diesel Maxima will cost compared to its gasoline counterpart? No one knows for certain, one can only speculate. It might end up costing an arm and leg as well.

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

I've been doing some reading on these diesels and I thought I'd share a couple of my favorites. The first gives a little basic understanding of the diesel and the second is on the BMWs equipped with a twin turbo diesel on the X3 and they put it in the X5 and the increase in performance and fuel economy. If BMW is putting it in some of their top models, I think Nissan can offer it in a great package for the new Max, especially with a CVT that can handle the torque of the diesel.

From Wikipedia:
The improvements to power, fuel economy and Noise, Vibration, and Harshness in both small- and large-capacity turbodiesels over the last decade have spurred their widespread adoption in certain markets, notably in Europe where they (as of 2006) make up over 50% of new car registrations. [1] Turbodiesels are generally considered more flexible for automotive uses than naturally-aspirated diesels, which have strong low-speed torque outputs but lack power at higher speeds. Turbodiesels can be designed to have a more acceptable spread of both power and torque over their speed range or, if being built for commercial use, can be designed to improve either torque or power at a given speed depending on the exact use.

Turbochargers are in many ways more suited to operation in diesel engines. The smaller speed range that Diesel engines work in (between 1000 and 5000 rpm for a private car, and as little as 1000-2500 rpm for a larger unit in a commercial vehicle) mean that the turbocharger has to change speed less, reducing turbo lag and improving efficiency. Diesel engines do not require dump valves (see the turbocharger article for more information) and have lower exhaust temperatures which reduces stress on the turbine blades. The turbodiesel engine can also help with the amount of torque it can give out. Commonly used in trucks, it helps improve the towing capacity of a truck, as well as fuel economy.

From SpeedSportLife.com
http://www.speedsportlife.com/2006/0...bmw-in-the-uk/

The new BMW X3 — Most powerful diesel engine ever to power a BMW in the UK


Click To View Larger Image

BMW is pleased to announce the launch of a revised X3, featuring the most powerful diesel engine ever to power a production BMW in the UK. The revised X3 features two new petrol engines and is set to take the Sports Activity Vehicle sector by storm.

Due to go on sale in the UK in September, the BMW X3 offers buyers the very latest in engine technology. BMW’s premium SAV now comes powered by a total of five different engines - two petrol and three diesel units.



Click To View Larger Image


Model
Power
hp
Torque Nm
Zero – 62mph Seconds

0 - 62
Top Speed mph
Combined
mpg

BMW X3 2.0d
150
330
10.2
123
39.2

BMW X3 2.5si
218
250
8.5
137*
28.5

BMW X3 3.0si
272
315
7.5
142*
27.4

BMW X3 3.0d
218
500
7.4
137*
35.8

BMW X3 3.0sd
286
580
6.6
149
32.5



*Refers to M Sport models with VR rated tyres.

The headline-grabbing powerplant is a twin-turbo 3.0-litre diesel with an output of 286hp and 580Nm of torque that has been developed from the engine used by the BMW 535d. Such power places the X3 3.0sd into the realm of sports car acceleration courtesy of a zero to 62mph time of 6.6 seconds and a 149mph top speed.

What sets the X3 3.0sd apart from previous X3s is that it comes equipped with the same twin-turbo technology that has already been showcased in the BMW 535d. By using two turbochargers, one smaller one larger, the X3 3.0sd offers high levels of low down pulling power as well as top end performance. It can do this because the smaller turbo boosts at low revs for instant, smooth and swift acceleration, but as engine speed builds the larger turbocharger comes into play to continue the rapid progress. The result is an engine that develops peak torque from just 1,750rpm through to 2,250rpm, but is capable of continuing to rev up to 4,400rpm – an unusually high limit for a diesel.

Completing the triumvirate of new six-cylinder engines to the X3 are a 2.5-litre 218hp petrol unit and a new 272hp 3.0-litre petrol engine. Both of these powerplants are based on the world’s lightest production six-cylinder engine constructed of aluminium and magnesium alloy. The smaller capacity engine can power the X3 from zero to 62mph in 8.5 seconds before going on to a top speed of 137mph. The higher output 3.0-litre engine reaches 62mph from zero in just 7.5 seconds before attaining a top speed of 142mph.

SilverMax_04

A turbo-diesel may well fit the bill for the Max. But a regular diesel engine frequently costs $3 grand more than the comparable gasoline engine. I put the turbo at from $5 to 7 grand more. And with all of the coming popularity of diesel power, look for diesel fuel prices to jump with the jump in demand.

Good luck to you diesel lovers on this site. You will pay at the sale closing and again at the pump.

PS to "Bad" : Your table is very hard to read. This site does not do tables well. You have to work at it to get them to read properly.

mavssolja

iTrader: (1)

the reason for diesle fuel being more expensive is becasue there is no demand for it in the US, therefor refineries produce less, and produce more gasoline, that also makes shipping it another issue, which ads to the price. Diesel fuel is actually easier and cheaper to refine than gasoline, so as the demand goes up refineries will produce more, and prices will level out becoming lower than gasoline. Its not an issue of supply and demand here, diesel fuel is more expensive because of the outside cost of shipping etc. becasue it is not all done on a massive scale loike gasoline. Once demand increases the supply being refined will increase and the outside costs will be less of a percentage dropping the price.

betep

I'd definitely look into the new diesel, especially if it comes with manual transmission.
If it's a turbo diesel - it should be pretty responsive on high speeds and should have a great pickup. With easy ECU mods the horsepower should increase tremendously.
Look at Ford 7.3 or 6.0 V8s and Cummins 5.9 I6, with ECU mods people are getting like double(or more) their horses and most of us with non/lightly modified maximas will pull away from those trucks.
The only problem is that nissan keeps maxima FWD, I just don't understand - the car is size of infiniti M, so Y can't they just share the platform, I think it's better than being afraid that RWD max will affect G35 sales

Just my 2c

SilverMax_04

You are partially correct, but there are many errors in your post. I worked for an oil company for 35 years before I retired, so know what I'm talking about. Also, your first sentence does not make good economic sense.

The same cut from refining crude oil in the crude unit (pipe still) is used for the following products or uses:
1) diesel fuel
2) heating oil
3) feed for some cat cracking units (to make gasoline)

So there is a demand for these products in the USA -- with the balance going to a cat cracker to make more gasoline. When diesel prices are higher than gasoline, there will be a refining incentive to reduce the volume of this cut going to the cat cracker to make gasoline. So diesel fuel supply can increase somewhat. But there are a number of units in US refineries designed to break up heavier crude cuts to make more gasoline. To my knowledge, there are no refining units to make more diesel fuel (or heating oil). Reducing the diesel cut going to the cat cracker is the only way to increase diesel fuel supply from existing refineries. The only reason US refineries produce less diesel fuel is because of the crude cut going to the cat cracker.

I do not understand what you mean by "the outside costs of shipping etc" diesel fuel. The diesel fuel produced in US refineries is shipped in the same petroleum products pipelines as gasoline -- in batches. The cost for shipping diesel fuel in these pipelines is essentially the same as gasoline (but not exactly the same because diesel fuel weighs slightly more per gallon than gasoline). When petroleum products are shipped by water (barge or tanker), the heavier weight of diesel fuel makes the shipping cost by water slightly higher than the cost for shipping gasoline. If you are talking about the cost of shipping diesel fuel from "outside the country" -- this hardly ever happens because of the high demand for diesel fuel in the rest of the world.

Supply and demand will always (without government controls) be the determining factors for setting prices of both gasoline and diesel fuel. Diesel fuel prices will typically be at their highest in the winter -- because of the increased demand for heating oil. Gasoline prices will typically be at their highest in the summer -- because of the increased demand from people driving gasoline powered vehicles on vacations, or simply driving more because of the good weather. But I predict that in the future, over time, diesel fuel prices will be at or above gasoline prices in most of the country for most of the year. And at times the price will be substantially higher (greater than 20 cents per gallon higher).

RHMax

The diesel Maxima is a better alternative than a hybrid one because of better MPG. However, if you think it's going be fun to drive; it won't compare to regular gas engine. The engine produces a lot of pull from about 2K RPM then drops off before 5K RPM, 400lbft to 260HP. It would be as quick, if not quicker than the gas engine; but the power doesn't increase with the engine speed. It would make a great cruiser/daily driver.

coobie

I would love to see a diesel Maxima in 2009-2010

RHMax

Well, I can't find the 2009 Maxima thread, but here goes...

Nssan Intima Concept

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

Wow, except for the color, that would be friggin' bada$$. From the tail I do see the Merc CLS style cues.

RHMax

Yeah, the seafoam green, the front overhang, and suicide doors.

mightymax5

Its sharp but it looks like the new Toyota Camary with a chrysler front end and and a honda rearend.

chernmax

iTrader: (15)

After 24 years in the US Navy I never thought I would get sea sick again, that color brings back memories. Overall, please keep that bada$$ car. she's beautiful!!!