SHIFT_matt

iTrader: (1)

This would not surprise me at all, though I would look for it in the 7th Gen Maximas. Lexus will soon release its GS sedan hybrid. Admittedly, this technology is coming around nicely. The GS hybrid will still push over 300 HP and propel the car from 0-60 in lest than 6 seconds. Not bad. For Nissan, and Infiniti for that matter, to produce an upper eschelon sedan with Hybrid technology would present stiff competition. Though its not likely something that many of us would co-opt.

hanzar

I like the new '07 interior but I really prefer the old '04 exterior. Come on, the cornering lights were a conversation piece!

I think the new Altima exterior looks great.

Edit: Sorry, forgot to mention that it looks like they've taken their time to refine the interior. The leather looks much softer, and they've taken care of the windshield reflections issue.

Mike_TX

Hmmmm. The cornering lights might have been a conversation piece for you, but they're a safety device for everyone else. People seem to think the little European-style side-marker blinkers beginning to show up on cars here are really cool, but the cornering lights get a helluva lot more attention than little flashers. If I start changing lanes at night, drivers on that side definitely know about it, since that beam of light is hard to miss. And they DO light up the path where you're turning, too.

As for the "windshield reflections issue", I'm glad you told me about it, since I've never noticed it in the 2-1/2 years and 40,000 miles I've owned the car!

belal242

I think i may have seen that post, and maybe why i recalled that information, sorry to steal ur spot light. But it would be a great idea for the Maxima and i would really be interested.

and for the $3.50 in cali i feel you on that already too, but i do expect some long term help here but we should be hovering in the $70 and above a barrel for awhile. I just dont think with all this pressure now that this will really continue especially when the Democrats take office

RHMax

More taxes?

lightonthehill

Now that the last series of posts in this thread are entering the 'possible hybred 7th gen Maxima' area, it is time for the org's wet dishcloth (me) to smother all hope.

The following is assimilated from my random readings of many sources over the past several months, mostly in print (not online).

Not only has Nissan CEO Carlos Ghosn expressed serious doubt as to the gas-electric hybrid technology since the day he ascended to the 'throne'; he recently said he 'felt vindicated' that the hybrid move has seemingly slowed.

Ghosn is on record as saying he feels ethanol and diesel each offer more promise than gas-electric for fuel economy. He has also said the only thing that led to the hybrid Altima is the strict air quality and city MPG requirements of the state of California.

I think his latest remarks disparaging hybrids were keyed by the news that the hybrid Accord was not selling. IIRC, just over 1% of Accords sold are the hybrid version. Toyota is losing money on the Accord hybrid, even though it sells them for thousands more ($30K) than regular Accords. Honda Executive VP **** Colliver has said a decision will be made later this year on whether to drop the hybred Accord.

The feeling in the automotive world seems to be that, as hybrids are only really effective in saving gas in city/local driving, they will sell best in smaller vehicles. Toyota's experience seems to bear that out; their two smaller vehicles available in hybrid version are selling rather well.

I am one who is somewhat surprised that Lexus is trying to enter the hybred market. They showed a 2008 Lexus LS 600h at the New York auto show. This vehicle will pair a hybrid system with an EIGHT cylinder gasoline engine.

I will be surprised if this vehicle is a big seller. When folks are plunking down $50K or more for a 300+ HP luxury machine, they are not usually into paying several more thousand in the hope of getting better city MPG at the expense of worse highway MPG.

Some here may not be aware the typical hybrid gets better gas mileage in city driving than in open road/freeway driving, as the electrical portion of the drivetrain is re-energized via braking and idling, and little braking or idling is done on the open road. Yet the heavy battery is along for the ride, whether of use or not.

I avoid congestion whenever possible, and, being retired, try to time my driving to where I can move along at the speed limit (or slightly above). I especially try to avoid local street driving in downtown areas of all cities. A hybrid would clearly be very wrong for my type driving.

Going by the MPG other hybrids are currently getting (not advertised MPG, but REAL MPG), and considering size/weight differences, I would guess a hybrid Maxima would probably get around 27MPG in the city (non-hybrid gets around 18 to 22) and around 24MPG on the open road (non-hybrid gets from 27 to 30).

Those doing little city driving are better off with a non-hybrid. Especially when one considers hybrids cost a few thousand dollars more than equivalent non-hybrids, the technology involved with hybrids is more complex, and the huge battery pack is very expensive to replace.

We won't even go into what happens when a hybrid is involved in a major accident. Of course there is no reason for concern if you happen to be one of those folks totally immune to several hundred volts or a faceful of acid . . .

In summary, unless Ghosn steps down, I am going to be quite surprised if the 7th gen Maxima is available in hybrid form. To be honest, when all factors are considered, I agree with Goshn that the Maxima is probably too large a vehicle to make best use of current gas-electric hybrid technology.

-----------------

On another subject, 45% of the professionals working in Nissan's California-based North American headquarters have agreed to move to Franklin TN (near Nashville) when Nissan moves its headquarters there later this year.

belal242

Thanks light! i think i need to do a u turn and go back towards Infiniti.

logik05se

7th gen maxima will not be a hybrid.

aussie983

iTrader: (16)

I didnt know Toyota made the Accord Hybrid?

Monotaur

lightonthehill: I know that real-world performance of hybrids isn't what is claimed by the manufacturers, but I don't think that the battery pack will bring down highway MPG by 15%. Besides, I've read a few stories about some of the new Lithium ion batteries that are becoming much cheaper / safer (in fact, there is a manufacturer of electric cars that will start offering a $35,000 electric car that gets ~300 miles per charge next year using Li-Ion batteries). I do agree though that the premium charged for hybrids probably won't be recouped with savings in gas in a reasonable amount of time (unless gas gets really expensive).

Anyway, here is my earlier post on the Maxima hybrid topic:

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=424637

Basically, here's the really interesting quote from the article I referenced (at http://www.hybridcars.com/altima.html ):

RHMax

Toyota licensed Honda like they are doing w/ Altima, I think.

lightonthehill

aussie - Good catch. I shouldn't be trying to post at 2:30 in the morning with no sleep.

I was trying to write that post without bringing Toyota into the discussion, as I felt that would complicate things. But I ended up writing 'Toyota' when I obviously meant to write 'Honda'.

Now that i have (erroneously) mentioned the word 'Toyota', I guess most here are aware the newly designed '07 Camry will be available in a hybrid version this fall.

logik - I agree that the 7th gen Maxima will not 'be a hybrid'. But there is a chance the 7th gen Maxima may (as Accord, Camry, etc) have a hybrid option for those who are into hybrid technology.

Monotaur may be right in that a hybrid Maxima may not bring down open highway mileage by as much as I suggested. The difference could be as small as 1 MPG. Conversely, I'm not convinced the hybrid will save as much as I suggested in city driving.

According to the quote Monotaur posted, it may be that pressure from competitors may force Nissan to have a hybrid version of the Maxima at some point, Ghosn's opinion notwithstanding. If a hybrid version of the Maxima becomes available, I would be surprised if it represented more than 5% of Maxima sales. The words 'Maxima' and 'hybrid' are so diametrically opposed in so many ways.

Diverging somewhat, RHMax sent me an article from December, 2001, where an Audi A4 with a CVT was being tested, and those testing it were rather impressed.

Even at that early stage, those into automotive technology understood that the potential was there for CVTs to outperform both manuals and autos in both accelleration and economy, because of the infinitely available ratios, and the absence of any break in accelleration while the tranny actually shifted.

The primary problems with CVTs will be twofold; perfecting the computer controlling system to have the CVT always at the perfect ratio for any situation, and overcoming the opinion of many drivers that CVT gives them less control over the car, as well as less fun driving it.

For vehicles with a performance reputation such as the Maxima, I feel the CVT will be paired with a tiptronic option for the foreseeable future. That will at least give drivers the feeling they still have some control over some situations.

I am one who expects the CVT to eventually be the standard tranny in almost all vehicles. Of course a manual tranny option must always be available in such vehicles as the 350Z and the Corvette.

Technology will see many changes happening ever faster in automotive engineering. It may be difficult for really old timers like me to adjust. In some ways, I wish I had my '49 Studebaker back. No power steering. . . no power brakes . . . no turn signals . . . no air conditioning. . . little power. . . poor visibility. . . on second thought, scratch the Studie. I would go back no further than my '85 Maxima. I loved everything about that car.

Mike_TX

The thing about hybrids - right now - is that they are basically a political/environmental statement and are not a cost-effective alternative to the conventional gasoline-powered car.

The true gas mileage of hybrids (forget the hype) isn't that much better than non-hybrids. For example, you can get a "regular" Civic right now that beats the Prius in most areas of fuel economy. All you have to do is check the math to see that the extra cost of a hybrid means you have to drive it well over 100,000 miles to just break even. And that's with a lot of subsidy by the mfr's. But by then, the expensive battery pack will also be shot.

In other words, unless amazing new technology suddenly comes along, hybrids are just a stop-gap measure as opposed to a long-term solution to anything. Burning fossil fuels is not some kind of cardinal sin as some would have you believe, and there is still lots of it. We just need to force our politicians to quit playing games and allow us to access the almost endless supplies of oil we have in Colorado, offshore California and Oregon, in the Gulf of Mexico and in Alaska.

So don't get too locked into the notion of hybrids. They're just a passing chapter in our mis-managed energy history. Those Priuses and hybrid Accords are going to be real "Edsels" in a few years, and Carlos knows that.

kbohip

This thread boils down to one thing for me. No 6-speed, no Maxima for me anymore. They improved the interior and I like the exterior better but who cares? A CVT transmission? No thanks. It looks like I'll have to switch to an Altima if I want to stay with Nissan, but after seeing the re-design for that I don't think so.

I may even take a look at Honda's new 6-speed Accord. I'll be holding onto my 5.5 gen for at least a few more years anyway though.

OhYeahBB

The pics are nice but they dropped the horsepower down on the 2007 max. I was very dissappointed with that. Especially when all the other car manufacturers are increasing their hp....ie toy avalon @300, chevy malibu ss @ 300 hp. The new 2007 Max will be at 255 hp down 10 from the 2004-2006 maxs. I think that it a mistake. It will be interesting to see the price range. The new max's basically have the same hp's as the altimas. Unless of course the up the altima and that would be disrespectful to the Maxima

belal242

Damn dude you blew your first thread, but welcome to the org.

The horse power is the same its just a new rating, and the altima does have more horsepower now. sorry to burst ur bubble but i think the last 9 pages on this thread talked about these issues.

jc53

With gas prices going the way they are, is the CVT such a bad idea? I know nothing about CVT's, just wondering!

lightonthehill

jc53 - As I have posted here many times, the CVT, once it and its controlling computer software have been perfected, will be superior to both auto and manual trannys in both accelleration and fuel economy. And you are correct that the CVT may be 'right for the times'.

BUT, there are many drivers out there who consider a car as far more than a means to get from point 'A' to point 'B'. These drivers prefer to be actively involved in the driving experience. They enjoy the driving more than they do just getting somewhere.

Drivers of that ilk are very prone to purchase performance vehicles. Cars like the Z350, BMWs, Corvettes, and, of course, the Maxima. So, although Nissan's decision to put CVT in such vehicles as the Murano did not create a strong backlash, putting it in the Maxima certainly will.

I happen to be one who understands that the advantages of a CVT tranny will, at some point, outweigh the disadvantages. I will almost surely continue my 21 year string of owning nothing but Maximas.

But I also understand why many real driving aficionados will be dismayed by the thought of a CVT in their beloved Maxima, and will regretfully look elsewhere for their thrills.

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

I can't believe that with all of the well thought out takes in Light's post, you had to pick this one little error to point out.

lightonthehill

BadBlack - Thanks for 'getting my back'. But aussie is right to point out my slip. We want things on the org to be correct.

At my age, I have long since grown used to being corrected, and take any such correction as a compliment - it means someone is actually reading my meandering prose.

BLAXIMA2K4

iTrader: (1)

Well he does work at a local Nissan dealership here in VA.

xorbitman

iTrader: (1)

Hi fellow Max lovers. Went over to Freshalloy to glance over the 2007 pics.
1st off I can tell you that I don't like the front end that much although it's an improvement over the tooth. The changes to the light configuration are a cop-out as in cheaper is better (more profit for Nissan).

In fact the car has less rated HP than the Altima! 252 vs. 265! WTF?!

Second: I though the guage part of the dash is a copy of the 06 Altima. Why did they mess with that? The rest is similar except I don't like the radio portion. It looks to much like other cars such as the Accord.

Third: The CVT would not be my choice.

So it looks like Nissan has decided that the Altima SE-R is going to be the next sports sedan? Why is Nissan killing the Max? Can we expect an Altima SE-R Nismo Spec-V version too?

The next gen better be good. I usually change cars every 4 - 6 years...Do I hear: G35 or G35 coupe or 2 year old FX 35? Maybe a 4 seat version of the GT-R if Nissan has the guts to bring it on.

lobewiper

Please post the link to the 07. Thanks.

belal242

Nismo im finally starting to catch onto your irritation with reposts

xorbitman

iTrader: (1)

Sorry, I didn't realize this original post had grown since I last viewed it!

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

http://www.autoblog.com/2006/04/12/n...max-no-longer/

I sure hope the new tranny blows everyone's mind and shut's them up. I atleast hope so....

New colors as well and color name changes... Super Black once again.

04BlackMaxx

The GS430h does 0-60 in way less than 6, they claim 5.2! Im a believer.

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

With the Maxima going more upscale, luxury performance and the Altima still maintaining a 6 speed option: Do you think that Nissan may be preparing themselves for the Altima to be its entry vehicle into NASCAR? Next year Toyota is starting the 07 Camry in NASCAR, can Nissan be far behind?

96sleepergle

iTrader: (6)

I think the reason the o7 max is 255 because there is no manual tranmission offered so they cant put 265 hp because of the higher drivetrain loss suffered with automatics as we all know with a manual, puts down more horse power so being its no longer offered at this time they have base the hp rating on the automatic tranny, if there was a manual in the mix then its 265

sblax2000

It seems that the CVT would not receive much backlash from the majority of prospective maxima owners (old people between 40 and 70)...if you look on the road, there aren't a lot of modded Maximas driven by young people...sure it's unfortunate, but true. What percent of Maximas sold in the past have been manuals? Very few right? 10-20% at most. I like that you compare Corvettes and BMWs and Maximas, but in reality, we (young modders who like 5-speeds) aren't Nissan's target market...at least for the maxima...yeah I know that doesn't explain the quad exhaust.

Lexus entered the hybrid market because it is a great selling point for them. Hybrid technology is currently a luxury as the cars that come with it are generally $4K+ more than the regular versions, thus they are going to be marketed towards people willing to pay a premium for luxury like Lexus buyers and feel good about themselves helping the environment, even if the benefits are minimal. Building a hybrid with a V-8 might seem contradictory and regressive, however, people who shell out $60K for a car can easily shell out $68K for a hybrid. Gas prices would have to substantially increase ($3.85 a gallon today) in order for the hybrid to pay for itself over time, and that's why they are selling to people who can afford the premium. The Maxima may go to hybrid as it has been considered a superior product to the Camry and Accord in the past and people have been willing to pay more for one because it is more luxurious (and fun). Until the cost of hybrids is reduced, it will remain popular with luxury automakers...isn't that why Porsche is making a hybrid Cayenne? If you really care about the environment, you wouldn't buy one, but the fact that you can help a little by shelling out 10% more money, or feel less guilty is worth it to people in the market for those types of cars.

I like the quote further up that 45% of the professionals are willing to move from CA to Tennessee...no offense, but they're out of their minds for making that move.

BadBlackMaxSL

iTrader: (1)

As a guy who will be 40 in a little over 2 years, I do NOT consider 40 to be "OLD". Life doesn't begin until 30, thats when you start to learn what life is all about. As far as the Max, I like my cars with a little polish and some stealth power under the hood. The Max is a great blend of luxury and performance, as most here will agree.

sblax2000

Yeah I figured that would get a little response, wasn't supposed to offend, just wanted to make a point regarding the market share that the Maxima has, there was some debatable items in the post, but that wasn't my focus...old is always relative to one's age, my dad's not old and he's 63...I feel old going to College night on Tuesdays...I don't consider my Maxima to be old, but my girlfriend thinks her 01 Civic is...go figure...

But at least we do agree that there's a blend of luxury and performance...and it seems that Lexus is jumping in to cater to those people and if Nissan wants to be successful and sell in that market, they will need to get more serious about hybrid prospects that accomodate both necessary features (luxury and performance)

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

WRONG

if you read anything you would have seen it is simply the new stardard of rating. How would a transmission determine engine power???? you would also see it is neither automatic no manual.

besides, the 5sp and 6sp show little to no performance difference in the 6th gen.

NismoMax80

iTrader: (6)

Nissan has already been doing this. It is called Infiniti.
Here is an analogy
Nissan : Toyota :: Infiniti : Lexus

sblax2000

::Honda:Acura....Yes I am aware of the Infiniti, however I was referring to Lexus' move towards more hybrids, as stated earlier in the thread. To my knowledge, I am not aware of any plans that Infiniti has to produce hybrids soon, although if you know of any I'd be interested.

lightonthehill

96sleep - You haven't read all the posts here (I understand why; that would take more time than many of us have) or you would know Nissan did not change the horsepower of the Maxima from '06 to '07. They simply used the new (required) system of measuring that horsepower.

In other words, the CVT did not result in a reduction of power from '06 to '07.

-----------

Some good points from sblx2000. I must, however, agree with BadBlackMax's lament on age. I'm in my seventies, yet hit four straight three pointers (20' arc) in basketball this afternoon, after clearing meadow fence rows for five hours. Old? Never. Then I went for a brisk drive in order to experience the thrilling response and handling of my 6th gen Maxima. Wow! Some car!

Nissan indeed is moving all their sedans up one level (making room for their new econobox), and the 7th gen Maxima may well be an Avalon-beater. I predict it will have over 300 HP, and still have the SE with a sporty suspension and the SL with a luxury ride. I feel all versions will have a CVT that will outperform traditional trannies. By then, many folks will be recognizing the inherent advantages of CVT. But I feel the real selling point for the 7th gen Maxima will be a truly luxurious interior, as well as an AWD option. The AWD may even be standard on the SL.

An upscale version of the Altima may indeed become the 'race car' and 'modifier' of the Nissan line, and the Maxima will truly become the flagship.

I can see why that disappoints some. But it excites me.

RHMax

Lexus '06 GS300 gets for 22 MPG city and 30MPG HWY, '07 ES350 gets for 21 MPG city and 30 MPG HWY, and the IS350 gets for 21MPG city and 28 MPG HWY.
However, the Lexus GS450h, CVT, gets 25 MPG city and 28 MPG HWY.
You get 3-4 MPG better driving around the city, but you lose a few driving on the HWY, and not get the benefit of HOV or carpool lanes. Where is the real advantage when you pay $5000+ for the technology-h?

BTW, '06 Maxima gets 21 MPG city and 29 MPG Hwy.

lightonthehill

In my post here at 1AM today, I blithely referred to the 'new Nissan econobox'. That was understating things. The new Nissan Versa (available July) is drawing rave reviews, and Testers are rating it better than its competition (Toyota 'Yaris', Honda 'Fit', Kia 'Rio', Chevy 'Aveo', etc). It is easily the most luxurious and well-appointed econobox, as it is sold in Japan as a luxury car.

But the point I found interesting is that the Versa will come with 6 speed manual tranny standard, with 4 speed auto and CVT trannies optional. And what EPA ratings do these three different trannies get?

6 speed manual - 30 city, 34 hiway
4 speed auto - 28 city, 35 hiway
CVT - 30 city, 36 hiway

If the CVT can compete with the manual and auto trannies in accelleration (and I would bet it does), I am beginning to see why Nissan is putting CVTs in most vehicles, including our beloved Maxima.

belal242

What makes you think that you will not get HOV or carpool lanes with the GS450h?
last i checked any hybrid qulified

Monotaur

Well, after some googling I found this article:

http://research.cars.com/go/crp/rese...=&aff=national

In it, it had an interesting comment that I thought agreed with lightonthehill's predictions:

I'm not sure what "calibrated for quicker response" means exactly, but it sounds somewhat similar to what lightonthehill had said earlier about the CVT eventually becoming faster than the 5AT and 6MT.