Gauging interest in VQ30/VQ35 long tube headers..
04-29-2012, 12:11 PM
#1
Gauging interest in VQ30/VQ35 long tube headers..
Hey guys.. A number of Maxima guys have asked me to come over and let you guys know about this. I don't want to come off as trying to sell anything, as I'm not a vendor here (yet). I have been a member here for a long time, and just wanted to gauge interest in this before I decide to dive in. If this DOES violate any rules, please PM me and let me know what, if anything, needs to be done.
We've been performing VQ35 swaps into the B15 chassis for nearly 8 years. In that time, we've tinkered with one-off header and y-pipe designs. Our mid-length headers and equal length y-pipe (with 3" collector/cat-back) make for huge gains. However, we acknowledge that there is a lack of a true tuned length header (long tube), with a nice collector, choke, and megaphone. So, we've been playing with header designs for our B15/VQ platform over the last 5-6 months. We've consulted some of the Z guys who have made big power with properly designed long tube headers, as well as other professionals in the header design industry.
We're going full production with our VQ swap headers for the Sentra, and I'd LIKE to make them compatible with 00-03 Maximas as well (02/03 Altimas). The dimensions are actually VERY similar between all 3.
Much like our QR25DE long tube header that's in the final stages of R&D, this will be a long tube design.. unlike anything that's unlike anything on the market currently:
The VQ design will feature a front (bank 2) header that has it's collector down at the rear of the oil pan. The back header (bank 1) will have it's collector down into the opening off the tunnel. There will NOT be a conventional "y-pipe" that we normally see with these cars. There will be an X-pipe which ties both banks together, then goes back into a single 3" collector with a flange for your cat-back. We may also toy with the idea of doing dual 2.25 or 2.5" tubing all the way back for a true dual setup (in the future).
The proto will be made of mild steel.. The production pieces will be constructed of TIG welded 304L stainless.. that includes the flanges. They will be made in-house, and NOT overseas. We use virgin 304L stainless.. not pot-metal like you see with Ebay junk, that scales/rusts, and discolors over time. That being said, they will NOT be cheap. This is going to be a top notch setup that makes big power.
Anyway, I'd like to just kinda get a show of hands, and maybe some feedback before I decide to make changes to incorporate the Maxima chassis into the design. We're on the fence about it, but there have been plenty of people coming over on B15u.com to ask us about it. I'd love to become a vendor here, as we plan on getting into the Maxima market anyway.
Travis
We've been performing VQ35 swaps into the B15 chassis for nearly 8 years. In that time, we've tinkered with one-off header and y-pipe designs. Our mid-length headers and equal length y-pipe (with 3" collector/cat-back) make for huge gains. However, we acknowledge that there is a lack of a true tuned length header (long tube), with a nice collector, choke, and megaphone. So, we've been playing with header designs for our B15/VQ platform over the last 5-6 months. We've consulted some of the Z guys who have made big power with properly designed long tube headers, as well as other professionals in the header design industry.
We're going full production with our VQ swap headers for the Sentra, and I'd LIKE to make them compatible with 00-03 Maximas as well (02/03 Altimas). The dimensions are actually VERY similar between all 3.
Much like our QR25DE long tube header that's in the final stages of R&D, this will be a long tube design.. unlike anything that's unlike anything on the market currently:
The VQ design will feature a front (bank 2) header that has it's collector down at the rear of the oil pan. The back header (bank 1) will have it's collector down into the opening off the tunnel. There will NOT be a conventional "y-pipe" that we normally see with these cars. There will be an X-pipe which ties both banks together, then goes back into a single 3" collector with a flange for your cat-back. We may also toy with the idea of doing dual 2.25 or 2.5" tubing all the way back for a true dual setup (in the future).
The proto will be made of mild steel.. The production pieces will be constructed of TIG welded 304L stainless.. that includes the flanges. They will be made in-house, and NOT overseas. We use virgin 304L stainless.. not pot-metal like you see with Ebay junk, that scales/rusts, and discolors over time. That being said, they will NOT be cheap. This is going to be a top notch setup that makes big power.
Anyway, I'd like to just kinda get a show of hands, and maybe some feedback before I decide to make changes to incorporate the Maxima chassis into the design. We're on the fence about it, but there have been plenty of people coming over on B15u.com to ask us about it. I'd love to become a vendor here, as we plan on getting into the Maxima market anyway.
Travis
04-29-2012, 12:46 PM
#2
I would say it depends on obviously price, performance and fitment. With Cattman stopping production eventually, the only real option left would be OBX IMO, so there is definitely spot for a better product to hit the market.
OBX headers are known to have fitment issues for us so if you could have it fit well and produce good numbers, people will be interested.
As far as I know, the headers in the market that currently fit the 02-03 altimas seem to be a better fit for the 6th gen (04+) maximas than the 5th and 5.5 gen maximas. Good luck and it's good to see more aftermarket options for the 5th gen.
OBX headers are known to have fitment issues for us so if you could have it fit well and produce good numbers, people will be interested.
As far as I know, the headers in the market that currently fit the 02-03 altimas seem to be a better fit for the 6th gen (04+) maximas than the 5th and 5.5 gen maximas. Good luck and it's good to see more aftermarket options for the 5th gen.
04-29-2012, 12:58 PM
#4
+1
I always like seeing more products. Eventually my OBX headers might be crapping out and I might have to pick one of those sets up. Schmellyfart here on the forum converted his altima headers to fit the maxima. The y-pipe sections are pretty disimilar from the sentras and altimas from what i hear, because of the engine cross member.
I always like seeing more products. Eventually my OBX headers might be crapping out and I might have to pick one of those sets up. Schmellyfart here on the forum converted his altima headers to fit the maxima. The y-pipe sections are pretty disimilar from the sentras and altimas from what i hear, because of the engine cross member.
04-29-2012, 01:36 PM
#6
^+1
I'm currently in the market for headers, and I can tell you that I would love some Cattman headers, but they are just a bit too pricey to be able to explain to the wife. The OBX has a great price, but there's info all over this board and the rest of the web talking about fitment issues.
If there were a header that fit like a Cattman, were priced at least in between the OBX and the Cattman, and performed well, THAT is exactly what I would be buying. Without knowing even a general idea on the price, when you say "they will NOT be cheap." I assume they are going to be as expensive or more expensive than the Cattman's, and, to be honest, I think I would feel more comfortable getting the Cattman's.
The design looks and sounds pretty killer though. And if you can prove good gains from them, I bet they'd sell.
-Nathan
I'm currently in the market for headers, and I can tell you that I would love some Cattman headers, but they are just a bit too pricey to be able to explain to the wife. The OBX has a great price, but there's info all over this board and the rest of the web talking about fitment issues.
If there were a header that fit like a Cattman, were priced at least in between the OBX and the Cattman, and performed well, THAT is exactly what I would be buying. Without knowing even a general idea on the price, when you say "they will NOT be cheap." I assume they are going to be as expensive or more expensive than the Cattman's, and, to be honest, I think I would feel more comfortable getting the Cattman's.
The design looks and sounds pretty killer though. And if you can prove good gains from them, I bet they'd sell.
-Nathan
04-29-2012, 02:28 PM
#7
seen this on the sentra forums, def interested. I need some better headers!
Interested in seeing how these come together. Looking for a very serious longtube header system.
How much longer would they be over the standard cattman setup?
Interested in seeing how these come together. Looking for a very serious longtube header system.
How much longer would they be over the standard cattman setup?
04-29-2012, 04:52 PM
#9
This will not be a cheap set of headers.. There's a reason that OBX is cheap, and there's a reason why Cattman is more expensive.
If you're going to spend the money, then do it right the first time. There's no sense in paying money for headers and leaving performance on the table.
I plan on being around $1000.00 for the long tubes and the x-pipe. That's the cheapest they will be. The time and money that goes into designing, testing, and producing these in the States is not cheap. I refuse to sell out to the overseas market.. even if it means less people buy my stuff. I'd rather be part of the sollution than the problem.
Also, you will never get the fitment perfect, time and time again with junk made overseas, because no one over there cares about QC. They weld it up, and if it's "close", it gets thrown into a big tumbler, where it's made nice and shiney. Those folks realize that "bling" sells to people here who usually don't know any better.
Travis
Without divulging exact numbers of our test parts.. they're quite a bit longer. The front header's collector is near the back of the oil pan, and the rear header's collector is in the tunnel.
This will be the best set of headers that money can buy, and for those looking for every last bit of power.
If you're going to spend the money, then do it right the first time. There's no sense in paying money for headers and leaving performance on the table.
I plan on being around $1000.00 for the long tubes and the x-pipe. That's the cheapest they will be. The time and money that goes into designing, testing, and producing these in the States is not cheap. I refuse to sell out to the overseas market.. even if it means less people buy my stuff. I'd rather be part of the sollution than the problem.
Also, you will never get the fitment perfect, time and time again with junk made overseas, because no one over there cares about QC. They weld it up, and if it's "close", it gets thrown into a big tumbler, where it's made nice and shiney. Those folks realize that "bling" sells to people here who usually don't know any better.
Travis
This will be the best set of headers that money can buy, and for those looking for every last bit of power.
Last edited by NmexMAX; 04-30-2012 at 10:44 AM.
04-29-2012, 04:56 PM
#10
Without divulging exact numbers of our test parts.. they're quite a bit longer. The front header's collector is near the back of the oil pan, and the rear header's collector is in the tunnel.
This will be the best set of headers that money can buy, and for those looking for every last bit of power.
This will be the best set of headers that money can buy, and for those looking for every last bit of power.
Sounds good!
So is this system equal length? Far as the 2 headers joining together.
edit: if you need a maxima thats willing to test, WITH dyno numbers, i can do that.
04-29-2012, 08:56 PM
#11
If Cattman headers was too expensive for most of these El Cheapos then they're just chiming in to hear themselves talk about these long tube headers...It's a cool legit concept that should show some gain but I'll be surprised if the gain is more than 10 whp...
04-29-2012, 09:43 PM
#14
The more important thing is the collector/choke, and megaphone, primary tube diameter to collector/choke diameter ratio, and tube length for the given cam/intake manifold.
One of the biggest issues with designing a set of headers, is making one that performs well with all types of cam/intake designs. This header set will be aimed towards those with big cams and/or head work. It will work well on a stock engine, as well.. but, you'll see the biggest gains once you go with big cams (C8's or bigger) and get more involved with tuning.
I'd LOVE to see the HR headed DE with a set of these headers. We're actually designing/building one of our prototype sets to run on this exact engine in a Sentra.
Travis
04-29-2012, 09:49 PM
#16
I'm going to build these regardless, as my Sentra guys want them. I'd be willing to bet that they make a lot more than 10whp over the current offerings.
Not sure.. I'd say 15-20whp more than the other offerings out there.. depending on supporting mods. We'll find out.
Last edited by NmexMAX; 04-30-2012 at 10:44 AM.
04-29-2012, 09:57 PM
#19
No offense, but there are plenty of cheap options out there. This is for people who are building motors, doing head work, and installing large camshafts. Those people aren't cheap, and a properly designed set of headers will really shine (versus what's out there now) in this application. The Z guys are making a solid 15-20whp more than the best shorty headers with similarly built engines. There's SO much more on the table. We've made 300+whp with our prototype headers/y-pipe, with a DE motor, light port work, HR pistons, and C8 cams. We've trapped just shy of 111mph in a full weight B15 (about 3000lbs) with this same engine.
I'm going to build these regardless, as my Sentra guys want them. I'd be willing to bet that they make a lot more than 10whp over the current offerings.
I'm going to build these regardless, as my Sentra guys want them. I'd be willing to bet that they make a lot more than 10whp over the current offerings.
04-29-2012, 10:09 PM
#21
Whats the quickest you could get the first for the 30 built? I would be the dummy because Im gonna be at the dyno anyways over the course of the next few months. I haven't put my cams in yet nor the SC or FIC so it could be dynoed on a mildly modded engine if it got built soon enough. If you could have it done by mid summer(late june) then I could be your first customer.
04-29-2012, 11:00 PM
#23
interested in this to see what power gains it gives off subscribed asap
everything will work out buddy you have people on here who are serious about modding and WILL spend that money and you got people that just like to hype things up and complain about everything
so GLWS buddy who knows i can be a buyer loving how beefy and nice they look already
everything will work out buddy you have people on here who are serious about modding and WILL spend that money and you got people that just like to hype things up and complain about everything
so GLWS buddy who knows i can be a buyer loving how beefy and nice they look already
04-29-2012, 11:37 PM
#24
I was just explaining what the aim for this will be, and just how limited you guys are in terms of header selection. Thanks for the encouragement.
See.. that's why I don't answering those types of questions. I don't know what it's going to make until I finish testing about 10 different runner lengths, collector sizes, primary sizes, transition lengths/sizes, etc. I'll have 5K+ into R&D before I even have something to bring to the table.
And, I mean no disrespect to Cattman. Those guys build a quality product, and they've kept it in America. This is just going to go beyond the scope of a mid-length and E/L y-pipe.
Travis
Whats the quickest you could get the first for the 30 built? I would be the dummy because Im gonna be at the dyno anyways over the course of the next few months. I haven't put my cams in yet nor the SC or FIC so it could be dynoed on a mildly modded engine if it got built soon enough. If you could have it done by mid summer(late june) then I could be your first customer.
interested in this to see what power gains it gives off subscribed asap
everything will work out buddy you have people on here who are serious about modding and WILL spend that money and you got people that just like to hype things up and complain about everything
so GLWS buddy who knows i can be a buyer loving how beefy and nice they look already
everything will work out buddy you have people on here who are serious about modding and WILL spend that money and you got people that just like to hype things up and complain about everything
so GLWS buddy who knows i can be a buyer loving how beefy and nice they look already
I know that some of you guys are going to be very serious about something of this calibur. It's what you need to take the next big step in huge N/A power. This definitely won't be for everyone.
Travis
Last edited by NmexMAX; 04-30-2012 at 10:42 AM.
04-29-2012, 11:58 PM
#25
That ballpark range is less than I thought it would be, it should be doable for me.
I'd be willing to test these on a 4th gen if needed. They would be dyno'd and compared to my Altima headers with 3" y pipe mated to a 3" catback - just thought I'd offer.
I'd be willing to test these on a 4th gen if needed. They would be dyno'd and compared to my Altima headers with 3" y pipe mated to a 3" catback - just thought I'd offer.
04-30-2012, 12:17 AM
#27
Wow, missed this thread until now. Not interested myself, but this has the potential to be epic. I can see some guys who are already full bolt-on upgrading to these and shattering some record numbers with the new setup.
04-30-2012, 07:12 AM
#30
It will be equal in length by within an inch or so.. Honestly, you can be with 2-3 inches, and it would be fine. You obviously want to take advantage of scavenging with equal length tubes, but there's room for play.
The more important thing is the collector/choke, and megaphone, primary tube diameter to collector/choke diameter ratio, and tube length for the given cam/intake manifold.
One of the biggest issues with designing a set of headers, is making one that performs well with all types of cam/intake designs. This header set will be aimed towards those with big cams and/or head work. It will work well on a stock engine, as well.. but, you'll see the biggest gains once you go with big cams (C8's or bigger) and get more involved with tuning.
I'd LOVE to see the HR headed DE with a set of these headers. We're actually designing/building one of our prototype sets to run on this exact engine in a Sentra.
Travis
The more important thing is the collector/choke, and megaphone, primary tube diameter to collector/choke diameter ratio, and tube length for the given cam/intake manifold.
One of the biggest issues with designing a set of headers, is making one that performs well with all types of cam/intake designs. This header set will be aimed towards those with big cams and/or head work. It will work well on a stock engine, as well.. but, you'll see the biggest gains once you go with big cams (C8's or bigger) and get more involved with tuning.
I'd LOVE to see the HR headed DE with a set of these headers. We're actually designing/building one of our prototype sets to run on this exact engine in a Sentra.
Travis
Ok coool! Def wanting them to be some what close to equal.
Yeah right now i'm thinking there are more camed vq sentras then maximas... lol im even on stock cams.
These will def be for the serious people out there, ive been wanting as set ever since i got my car running on this 09 motor. But getting a custom set made would be a ton more then these will cost + testing what combination is best would cost a ton also.
05-01-2012, 03:05 PM
#31
Gonna have to say let me know. Ive had a car with a properly setup set of headers with stepped primaries, equal length runners, and a reverse megaphone setup, and lets just say that it was well over 15 at the wheels gain over the shorties i had on the car. Literally bolt on hp.
What are we looking at for bolting to the cat/test pipes? are any changes going to need to be made to the exhaust?
What are we looking at for bolting to the cat/test pipes? are any changes going to need to be made to the exhaust?
05-01-2012, 03:27 PM
#32
Sounds like a potentially awesome product. However, I would be very cautious making an investment into something like this.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
05-01-2012, 03:51 PM
#33
Senior Member
Join Date: Oct 2001
Posts: 812
Sounds like a potentially awesome product. However, I would be very cautious making an investment into something like this.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
05-01-2012, 04:32 PM
#35
Guys, this is for the serious modded cars out there. The people that want this kinda performance header system will know what this actually means for performance and will have no problem getting these.
This is not just a hey i got a Maxima with headers!!!!!!! WOW.
This is all out performance...........
Just wait till i can get a set on my car, and post some dynos. Even with stock cams these will be insane. (like my car isnt insane enough as it is...)
This is not just a hey i got a Maxima with headers!!!!!!! WOW.
This is all out performance...........
Just wait till i can get a set on my car, and post some dynos. Even with stock cams these will be insane. (like my car isnt insane enough as it is...)
05-01-2012, 04:36 PM
#36
Guys, this is for the serious modded cars out there. The people that want this kinda performance header system will know what this actually means for performance and will have no problem getting these.
This is not just a hey i got a Maxima with headers!!!!!!! WOW.
This is all out performance...........
Just wait till i can get a set on my car, and post some dynos. Even with stock cams these will be insane. (like my car isnt insane enough as it is...)
This is not just a hey i got a Maxima with headers!!!!!!! WOW.
This is all out performance...........
Just wait till i can get a set on my car, and post some dynos. Even with stock cams these will be insane. (like my car isnt insane enough as it is...)
That's exactly what I wanted to tell you to do, so I could see the results
05-01-2012, 11:51 PM
#38
Darren will be getting a set for his Max.. He will be one of the first test vehicles.
You have to keep in mind that this will be designed to fit 3 vehicles.. VQ swapped B15 first and foremost (I have guys beating the door down wanting them), Maxima, and Altima. Even if there was zero interest, I would still build them, because some of our big bore/stroked/cammed out VQ's require them to take the next step. The Sentra guys will be banging on 350-360whp all motor this summer. Bank on it.
Travis
Sounds like a potentially awesome product. However, I would be very cautious making an investment into something like this.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
The car is getting to be an age where it isn't worth much anymore and investing $$$ into aftermarket parts makes less and less sense.
There is a reason Cattman got out of the game and they had an even broader scope of products.
People complained all the time about the cost of Cattman stuff. If this will prove to be more expensive it will be a tough sell too all but a select few with the supporting mods and tuning to really take advantage of them.
Travis
Last edited by NmexMAX; 05-08-2012 at 07:37 AM.