2damax

The last couple days this has been happening. When I brake, especially at 30+ mph, my brakes gring hard and vibrate very similar to ABS kicking in on ice. I just stopped to do a visible inspection. First thing is that the plastic shield has been missing for a few months. Accidently thrown out by someone. I also JUST noticed that the bottom bolt that holds the strut in place is completely missing.

At town fair tire, a couple weeks ago, I got an alignment and the guy said that those bolts were loose and he tightened it. I find this part strange because before he touched that bolt it had been left alone for a few months. Now that he tightened it, its GONE! Could that be causing the severe grind?

I drive this car A LOT everyday. Not driving it is not an option and this grind is awful. Obviously, I need to replace the bolt. Anyone know the bolt size? What other problems could this be? I don't notice anything stuck anywhere but it is dark and I cannot get under the car ATM.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Dude take it back to the guy who touched it last. He will at minimum put a new bolt in for free.

Those are NOT normal bolts. They're at least grade 5. DO NOT DRIVE THIS CAR WITH THAT BOLT MISSING!!!!!


And if you have a brake pedal shake that's 9/10 times warped rotors, which are VERY common on this car.

Warped rotors cause vibration, vibration loosens and wears parts out very very fast, especialloy on this suspension set up.

IT IS EXTREMELY, EXTREMELY UNSAFE TO KEEP DRIVING THIS CAR LIKE THAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! YOU SHOULDNT EVEN DRIVE IT TO THE SHOP

2damax

Getting them to replace that bolt is probably a losing battle but i will try tomorrow. If they wont replace it do i have to buy another one from the dealer? Price?

This is nothing like warped rotors. This is more grinding like when ABS kicks in on ice.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

that's probably excessive runout and bouncing in your Hub/Spindle, causing the axel to shift out of place, and the ABS sensor is reading all over the place.

And warped rotors will cause ABS to kick in.

Betcha it's worse over bumps.

You can't drive this like this

ChrisMan287

iTrader: (34)

Hopefully you can get it at the dealer.

Maybe uneven pads?

2damax

I replaced front brakes about 7k ago.

Could the missing bolt be causing that lower mount to buldge out enough to hit the back of the rotor?

TallTom

What rotors did you put on? I put on Brembo blanks and they warped in under 10k.

2damax

Yeah brembo blanks with hawk hps. If they are really warped already then that is terrible.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Not likely no. If it was moving that much the car would pull allover the place while it did that.

I am willing to bet you JUST caught this in time before the top bolt worked it's way loose.

If you're mechanically inclined, you can jack the wheel up, remove the wheel, and pull the top bolt out. Then take it to your local hardware store( IN ANOTHER CAR!!! ), they'll be able to match up close. Get Grade 5 or More. Grade 7or8 is best.

Make sure you get fine thread at MINIMUM. IIRC, those bolts are METRIC FINE THREAD, which is stupid fine.

FYI, any time you touch those bolts, you're supposed to get an allignment, as they change the camber of the front wheels.

also, just so yo'ure aware, the only thing that is stopping that entire wheel, Hub, Caliper, Rotor, etc, etc from falling off the car, is that upper bolt still holding a bit of tension, and your ONE ball joint. A couple good bumps or brake applications and you'll either be in a bad accident, seriously hurt, or at minimum, on the side of the road withthe body on the pavement, and crapload of damage to your car, and a big ticket coming.

Again,that bolt SHOULD Be dealer item, but if you can get something the same diameter in fine thread and Grade 5 or higher FOR NOW, it'll work.

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

And even OEM rotors have been known to warp under 10k, all it takes is them being a little warm, and some rain. Hit one puddle with warm rotors and they're toast.

The Brembo blanks are TERRIBLY infamous for warping prematurely. Throw them in the garbage.

TallTom

I replaced mine with Centric's and couldn't be happier. No warping after some heavy driving. If you do replace, I highly recommend them. I think Rochester has them as well.

2damax

I just replaced my struts and thats why I got the alignment. So now I need to replace these rotors ALREADY? AND take that strut out, match/replace that bolt AND buy another alignment!?!?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

This sucks dude. I know.

2 large breaths

Now. Acknowledge the simple fact that regardless of the circumstance, and who is at fault, you need to get a bolt in there NOW, and check the torque on ALL other bolts, most importantly, the strut bolts up top and at the spindle.


THEN:
If you paid someone to do the struts, go get 'em.

If you paid someone to do the allignment, go get 'em.

They should, at minimum, fix everything PROPERLY and REALLIGN it for free.

If you swapped the struts yourself, consider this a lesson learned, ALWAYS double check the torque of all components.
And never install anything 'loose', if it's on there, it better be tight. Learn that mantra.

2damax

I installed them myself about 3 or 4 months ago. I would jave bet money I tightened those bolts until I couldn't tighten them anymore pretty much.

Town fair did the alignment and told me the bolt was loose and he tightened it. I just do not see them doing anything for me but of course I will try. Good thing I am off tm.

Sucks I just spent most my money fixing up the future baby room. FML.

2damax

What if I do not take out the strut and just put in a new bolt. Still need an alignment, huh?

Nexus67

iTrader: (23)

Not sure if it'll help you but: 'somehow' my abs line got loose. Everytime I stepped on the brakes at low speeds it felt like the abs kept kicking in. Took it to my mechanic and he found the line partially ripped and said it was being activated by the ground (I guess b/c it kept making contact w/ the area around the control arm. He taped it up and tucked it away, been good so far.

2damax

When I take the wheel off in the morning I will see if everything looks in place. I have a feeling that the plastic shield being missing and the recent snow/ice playes a role in all this. I guess I will buy that shield too.

So mad I need to buy rotors already. So mad I need to buy that bolt. Thanks for the help and listening to me rant

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Well if you DID tighten them that much, you do need to understand something. Tight isn't tight. This is what we have torque specifications for in the industry. The Proper torque spec for the UPPER strut mount/tophat nuts is 35 lbft
For the BEARING it's 50 lbft
For the LOWER strut mount (one we're most concerned about this second), is 130 lbft

A standard 1/2" ratchet that's about 7-10" long, in the hands of an average male, snugged up with a decent bit of force, is in the 130 lbft range. If you tightened it with a breaker bar, impact wrench, etc, etc, then you've overtorqued it. To take those things off, you usually need a breaker bar, so I can only assume that's what you used to tighten them. Also as you said, you tightened them until you "couldn't tighten them anymore".

While this may seem like a good idea, or being 'extra cautious', chances are, you probably just torqued those bad boys to about 250+ lbft.

Now, I'm not going to get into the specifics of WHY, but when you overtorque to that extreme, a weird phenomena happens. The bolt/nut comes loose if it's in a stress location (this bolt IS in a constant stress location). Ever heard of guys having problems with their lug nuts coming loose over and over no matter how much they tighten them? that's why.

Eventually those same guy's wheel studs will break off completely.

I'm not saying this IS the reason that bolt's missing, or why the guy who did the alligment found it loose and tightened it, then it disappeared completely, but it's a pretty good guess if you ask me.

Also, something most mechanics don't even know, those lower strut mount bolts have a special tightening procedure. you're supposed to Hold the Head of the bolt and tighten the NUT ONLY. you are not supposed to allow the bolt to spin while tightnening. And as with anything, you torque the NUT SIDE, NOT THE HEAD.


you're SUPPOSED to get one. Considering the events, my recomendation is:

1. Replace all the lower strut mount bolts. Just do it. Torque them to specifications, you can put a couple small drops of blue locktite on them for good measure.

2. Replace your rotors, install any missing or incorrect components. Inspect the brakes, slide rails for pads for corrosion/bulging, and service the calipers (slide pins if nothing else)

3. Grab a torque wrench and your FSM. Torque everything that's been touched in the last little while. If anything "clicks" with the torque wrench with out hardly touching it, then I suggest you do this:
keep adjusting up the torque wrench setting and turning until it feels like you're actually going to move the bolt/nut you're checking. Then see where your torque is. If it's anywhere NEAR 175% (1.75 times) of the recommended torque, it's recommended you replace that hardware/stud because it's comprimised.

4. Drive it for a couple weeks. once the suspension settles in, and you bed the brakes, see how the allignment is. if it's tolerable, you're broke, and you DON'T have new tires on the front, then you're probably ok to ride it out without paying for another allignment. Just wait until it's time to do another component or tires, then do the allignment.

if you have new(er) tires, yeah just swallow the pill and pay again, not worth burning those tires off.

5. Take pleasure in knowing you learnt a valuable lesson, and that this lesson will not only put you at ease behind the wheel, but put your chequebook at ease for the future because you won't have to do repeat work on components that were just replaced.


No problem man. I have made enough of these mistakes on the way to enlightenment, and I'm sure I have many more to go! LMAO

P.S. Expect the bolt will be around $5-10. You prefer a flanged head on the bolt and the nut. (like the stock one).

if you plan on keeping this back-up bolt that you'll be buying in there, PAY FOR THE GRADE 8 BOLT. At least this way, you're covering your butt a little bit. And if they don't have anything but coarse thread, look elsewhere. You don't want this problem to repeat itself. Fix it right the first time.

SAK74

iTrader: (2)

GET THE WHOLE FRONT END INSPECTED BY A PROFESSIONAL. BETTER SAFE THAN SORRY.

2damax

Ok I found time, in the rain nonetheless, to jack up the car. I cannot find out what is wrong! No bolts are missing like I thought I saw last night.

So from what Tuner has mentioned I assume all I have to do is replace the rotors and the lower engine cover on the passenger side. So when I hit water/snow with that missing cover my rotors got warped? Considering everything I thought this was, this isn't so bad now. Except now my belts are squealing on startup haha

edit: Sound sounds like it is from under the engine almost. Car needs to go on a lift. Bummer.

2damax

Hey I need to bump this again for some help. Since the lower strut mount bolts were all tight, I just purchased the plastic lower engine cover and hoped the ABS-like vibration went away. It did. Except when it got wet or at the very start of a drive.

Now, due to my own error I assume, the ABS light is on. Obviously, no more vibration since ABS is inactive. My question is what happened? If I replace a broken sensor will it just do what happened before? How should I check the code...for free?

TunerMaxima3000

iTrader: (4)

Sounds like you might have a bad wire that's grounding out or shorting out for the ABS, or possibly, that the ABS module harness is shorting due to getting water damaged. Was the sheild missing on the driver side?

2damax

No just the passenger side. And its on now...after 4 months :/

I have never checked ABS sensors or wires before but I hear its just the one line that isn't the brake line when I take off the tire. Weather permitting I will check tomorrow. Just check for wire damage? Clean the sensor? I am kinda just guessing right now.

2damax

So I guess I learned something the hard way. This is not at all what I thought was wrong. The ABS wire was not in the small mounts to hold it in place. Instead, it was under the lower strut mount and on top of the CV boot. It was constantly being rubbed and pinched. It is now flat and the copper is showing.

This is likely the cause of the random ABS activation and the eventual cutoff of ABS all together. My question is how much is the wire? I will try electrical tape but it is probably to late and the wire must be replaced. Seems easy to replace, yes? Hopefully my picture link worked but it was my first attempt to do it.

2damax

Holy crap! I do not know how to fix the pic size. Sorry everyone!