60+ MPH "wobble", I've done the obvious ...
12-20-2011, 09:22 AM
#1
60+ MPH "wobble", I've done the obvious ...
The car has developed this highway speed “wobble”. Seems to only occur when approaching 60MPH and greater, as it gets slightly more pronounced when speed is >60MPH.
It feels as if the front wheels are swaying back and forth. For lack of a better explanation, I get a pulsating feeling in the steering wheel. When I let go, the steering wheel sways from side to side, like if the car is going on a sine wave trail, very slightly (10-15° at most, so ± 5-7.5º from zero).
It was a lot worse before I changed the OTR’s and ITR’s. But is still there at highway speeds. Prior to the change, it was pretty much at all speeds. Now, much tighter until I get to 60.
My thoughts are, (albeit farfetched since the obvious didn’t work), possibly bearings and maybe I should remove my spacers to see if I get any improvements as well as get the tires balanced since the currently installed tires are winters and have been sitting for 6 months or so. Starting by getting them balanced Thursday morning. But, the 18’s were nicely balanced and still showed this behavior.
I hope the steering rack is not on its way out, if it was, I wouldn't know
to look for.
Recently changed:
LCA’s
OTR’s
ITR’s
SFC’s
End links
ES Subframe + sway bar bushings
Alignment post install
Happens both with my 245-40-18x8.5’s w/5mm spacer and OEM SE 17x7 w/235-45 w/10mm spacers
Thoughts, hypothesis, quesions, wise cracks, sarcasms, off topic discussions?
It feels as if the front wheels are swaying back and forth. For lack of a better explanation, I get a pulsating feeling in the steering wheel. When I let go, the steering wheel sways from side to side, like if the car is going on a sine wave trail, very slightly (10-15° at most, so ± 5-7.5º from zero).
It was a lot worse before I changed the OTR’s and ITR’s. But is still there at highway speeds. Prior to the change, it was pretty much at all speeds. Now, much tighter until I get to 60.
My thoughts are, (albeit farfetched since the obvious didn’t work), possibly bearings and maybe I should remove my spacers to see if I get any improvements as well as get the tires balanced since the currently installed tires are winters and have been sitting for 6 months or so. Starting by getting them balanced Thursday morning. But, the 18’s were nicely balanced and still showed this behavior.
I hope the steering rack is not on its way out, if it was, I wouldn't know
to look for. Recently changed:
LCA’s
OTR’s
ITR’s
SFC’s
End links
ES Subframe + sway bar bushings
Alignment post install
Happens both with my 245-40-18x8.5’s w/5mm spacer and OEM SE 17x7 w/235-45 w/10mm spacers
Thoughts, hypothesis, quesions, wise cracks, sarcasms, off topic discussions?
12-20-2011, 09:27 AM
#2
How long has the car done this? It seems like you have replaced just about every component that you could point the finger at but I do think your mention of bearings could be a possibility. It doesn't seem as likely to me that the spacers are a factor given that you've tried 2 different sized spacers and 2 different sets of wheels.
12-20-2011, 09:38 AM
#3
How long has the car done this? It seems like you have replaced just about every component that you could point the finger at but I do think your mention of bearings could be a possibility. It doesn't seem as likely to me that the spacers are a factor given that you've tried 2 different sized spacers and 2 different sets of wheels.
After I repalced the OTR's, I got slight improvement, but it was still there.
Then I did the end links, added the ES bushings, and the SFC's and it was still there. (I didn't expect these to help much, but they needed to be changed).
Finally, did the ITR's and LCA's all at once, and it really improved, but still showed it's ugly face at or above 60MPH.
Bearings + tire balance is on order at this point I think.
12-20-2011, 10:05 AM
#4
12-20-2011, 10:21 AM
#5
Also, I need to mention, it took a very long time to get evrything on.
Weekends and weekends of hard labor and broken tools.
I'd say it was over the course of about 2 weekends 8h days total spaced out about 8-10 months.
An hour here, a couple hours there, etc. As with anything with the Maxima world, if I had to do it again, it would take 4h max. No time these days though.
The bearings deal I will take it to the local tire shop since I don't have a press.
65$ea from Courtesy, for front bearings, not too bad.
Just need to get some new studs since I need them a bit longer because of my spacers.
35$ for a set of 10 extended studs from H&R.
Last edited by NmexMAX; 12-20-2011 at 10:24 AM.
12-20-2011, 11:20 AM
#6
Does it make a difference whether you're on the throttle or not? Does it seem to get worse with higher load?
I had a similar problem with my Eclipse about a year ago. Turned out that one of my inner CV joints wore out and was starting to bind. It was barely noticeable below 60mph, but above 60mph, it would vibrate the car pretty violently as speed and throttle increased. I can't say I experienced what you've observed by letting go of the wheel... I think I was too afraid to let go
Try wiggling your axles and see if there's any up/down play. If they budge any more than 1mm, you might consider it an option. There won't be any tell-tale signs unless you remove the axle and bend the joint manually.
I had a similar problem with my Eclipse about a year ago. Turned out that one of my inner CV joints wore out and was starting to bind. It was barely noticeable below 60mph, but above 60mph, it would vibrate the car pretty violently as speed and throttle increased. I can't say I experienced what you've observed by letting go of the wheel... I think I was too afraid to let go
Try wiggling your axles and see if there's any up/down play. If they budge any more than 1mm, you might consider it an option. There won't be any tell-tale signs unless you remove the axle and bend the joint manually.
12-20-2011, 11:32 AM
#8
I thought I was safe when I changed the LCA.
I'm starting to also think ouside the box and go with the CV idea/theory also.
Originally Posted by Voodoo
Does it make a difference whether you're on the throttle or not? Does it seem to get worse with higher load?
I'm starting to also think ouside the box and go with the CV idea/theory also.
12-20-2011, 06:13 PM
#11
I had a similar issue of the front end vibrating at 110kmph and thought of all the normal things balance move the tire around check for worn parts, this issue was non of the above ... it was the rubber itself once I changed to new rubber problem was solved ... only takes one bad tire itself to though things off.
12-20-2011, 06:20 PM
#12
Random question but are you leaking a tiny bit of gear oil? I had the horrible wobble too, during the install of my clutch, that bracket that bolts to the bottom of the engine, the bracket that holds the passenger side axle in place broke, i had it replaced and 90% wobble gone. Reason asking about the gear oil, because the axle wasnt being held in right, it would leak through the housing.
12-21-2011, 03:45 AM
#13
Worn front axle Bearings.....You sure evrything is tight and torqued to spec on your frontend! Be sure to check you rear axle bearings and trailing arm bushings they can upset the car like that for sure!
12-21-2011, 05:57 AM
#14
I figured as much when you said the LCA's are new... but that doesn't rule out one or both ball-joints as the point of failure.
The 60+ mph wobble you're describing was something I experienced last year, and it was my OEM passenger-side ball-joint getting sloppy on me. New MOOG joints, and everything was right-as-rain.
The 60+ mph wobble you're describing was something I experienced last year, and it was my OEM passenger-side ball-joint getting sloppy on me. New MOOG joints, and everything was right-as-rain.
12-21-2011, 09:21 AM
#16
Random question but are you leaking a tiny bit of gear oil? I had the horrible wobble too, during the install of my clutch, that bracket that bolts to the bottom of the engine, the bracket that holds the passenger side axle in place broke, i had it replaced and 90% wobble gone. Reason asking about the gear oil, because the axle wasnt being held in right, it would leak through the housing.
I had a similar issue of the front end vibrating at 110kmph and thought of all the normal things balance move the tire around check for worn parts, this issue was non of the above ... it was the rubber itself once I changed to new rubber problem was solved ... only takes one bad tire itself to though things off.
Originally Posted by Rochester
I figured as much when you said the LCA's are new... but that doesn't rule out one or both ball-joints as the point of failure.
The 60+ mph wobble you're describing was something I experienced last year, and it was my OEM passenger-side ball-joint getting sloppy on me. New MOOG joints, and everything was right-as-rain.
The 60+ mph wobble you're describing was something I experienced last year, and it was my OEM passenger-side ball-joint getting sloppy on me. New MOOG joints, and everything was right-as-rain.
I'm going to do bearings and CV's. After that I'll just sell it.
12-21-2011, 09:55 AM
#18
http://www.optionsauto.com/prodinfo....ICH-NS-122545S but again they are definitely not the same quality, you can easily strip them if you are not extra careful.
Nooo you can't sell it !not yet
12-22-2011, 06:02 AM
#26
I'm still thinking front bearings but the CV idea is an interesting one and worth checking.
LOL I've been in the "I'll just sell it" frame of mind before when problems persist after many replaced parts, I always just say "the next trip to the parts store is to buy a for sale sign".
LOL I've been in the "I'll just sell it" frame of mind before when problems persist after many replaced parts, I always just say "the next trip to the parts store is to buy a for sale sign".
12-22-2011, 06:19 AM
#27
12-24-2011, 08:15 AM
#28
Have you not jacked up the car's front end and shaken the wheels to see if the new ball joints in the LCAs are indeed good? Can anyone else (LOL YOU HAVE AN AUTOMATIC) drive your car by you in another car at highway speed so you can see if there's visual wobble? I've seen pickup trucks with such destroyed front suspensions that their camber is so extreme in the positive direction, it looks like the wheel is about to drop off. uke:
The '05's FSM says something about checking the cotter pin that is inserted into the ball joints, as well. I thought our cars had ball joints up top as well as down low, but the 6th gen FSM is showing otherwise.
But if the new LCAs are good, then that only leaves you with CV joints, or maybe the entire axle itself.
Edit: The 6th gen owners like to rant about some high-speed "shimmy" they blame on bad steering racks, but I'm not seeing how a bad rack would cause motion when you're driving in a straight line, not giving the car any steering input. I've also never heard of anyone online or off, that's had to change a rack because it "went bad" and wasn't destroyed in an accident.
...says the guy with an avatar solely consisting of Greek letters. 
uke:The '05's FSM says something about checking the cotter pin that is inserted into the ball joints, as well. I thought our cars had ball joints up top as well as down low, but the 6th gen FSM is showing otherwise.
But if the new LCAs are good, then that only leaves you with CV joints, or maybe the entire axle itself.
Edit: The 6th gen owners like to rant about some high-speed "shimmy" they blame on bad steering racks, but I'm not seeing how a bad rack would cause motion when you're driving in a straight line, not giving the car any steering input. I've also never heard of anyone online or off, that's had to change a rack because it "went bad" and wasn't destroyed in an accident.
Originally Posted by nelledge
On that note, I think it's funny that you described your tire wandering as 'sinusoidal'. Nerd.
Last edited by Eirik; 12-24-2011 at 08:18 AM.
12-29-2011, 04:55 PM
#29
LCA's are Raybestos. ITR's are Moog, OTR's are Raybestos. Pricey sh*t.
I've been under there and nothing gives as it should, although, I need to re-verify the bearings because I hadn't thought to look as I was hell bent on it being the ITR's.
FTR, we only have lower ball joints, found in the LCA. And the cotter pins are fine.
I've been under there and nothing gives as it should, although, I need to re-verify the bearings because I hadn't thought to look as I was hell bent on it being the ITR's.
FTR, we only have lower ball joints, found in the LCA. And the cotter pins are fine.
12-29-2011, 05:29 PM
#30
I know my issue is that I have 2 slightly bent rims, thanks to hitting a large pot hole at night doing 80 ish. They are not cracked and you can't see the bend unless you throw it on a balancer without a shield or has a lot of holes in it can you see the slight wobble in them. I was able to find a place that balanced them pretty good but they still start to shake around 70.
12-29-2011, 06:42 PM
#34
Go get your wheels and tires properly ROADFORCE balanced. This is not your usual static balance procedure. Look for a performance shop with a Hunter GSP9700 machine and tell them you want to have your wheels ROADFORCE balanced. Worked wonders for me for that exact same issue.
01-10-2012, 10:23 AM
#36
Go get your wheels and tires properly ROADFORCE balanced. This is not your usual static balance procedure. Look for a performance shop with a Hunter GSP9700 machine and tell them you want to have your wheels ROADFORCE balanced. Worked wonders for me for that exact same issue.
01-10-2012, 05:56 PM
#38
Interested to hear what you come up with. I did my subframe bushings and it's MUCH less noticeable. My ball joints are tight too.
Did you by chance run both of those sets of wheels and tires when you had alignment that was out of spec? That could wear both sets of tires in a way that they both give you the same symptom. My car does it with two sets but i know my snow tires are worn goofy from running on my 240sx, and the oem wheels/tires are chopped from not getting an alignment immediately after lowering it.
My ball joints seem tight. It almost feels like I need another alignment, and I am wondering if me fixing the lower control arm bushings has pushed my alignment out of whack.
Also don't overlook the rear suspension!! Check for torn bushings and things of that nature. Wandering rear end feels WEIRD! I had that on my 240sx before I installed subframe collars and it was downright squirrely before the collars.
Good luck.
Did you by chance run both of those sets of wheels and tires when you had alignment that was out of spec? That could wear both sets of tires in a way that they both give you the same symptom. My car does it with two sets but i know my snow tires are worn goofy from running on my 240sx, and the oem wheels/tires are chopped from not getting an alignment immediately after lowering it.
My ball joints seem tight. It almost feels like I need another alignment, and I am wondering if me fixing the lower control arm bushings has pushed my alignment out of whack.
Also don't overlook the rear suspension!! Check for torn bushings and things of that nature. Wandering rear end feels WEIRD! I had that on my 240sx before I installed subframe collars and it was downright squirrely before the collars.
Good luck.
01-10-2012, 08:22 PM
#40
Go get your wheels and tires properly ROADFORCE balanced. This is not your usual static balance procedure. Look for a performance shop with a Hunter GSP9700 machine and tell them you want to have your wheels ROADFORCE balanced. Worked wonders for me for that exact same issue.