Bad diff bearing..5 Speed Trans experts Please step in
11-19-2011, 08:24 PM
#1
Bad diff bearing..5 Speed Trans experts Please step in
So i bought an 01 se swapped from an auto to an 01 AE 5speed by the previous owner.
When i bought it a couple months back i was told it needed an axle seal as it was leaking pretty bad.
i noticed the driver side axle had up and down play and you could grab hold of the axle and pull it out a couple inches from where it met the trans.
I went to put the driver side axle in tonight and got it done but when the axle was out the diff bearing had quite a bit of up and down play.
It is the best tranny shifting wise i have ever owned which is odd i guess.
i have to do a clutch and flywheel next week but wanted to do the axle first so i could inspect the diff bearing before doing the clutch so if i had to buy a trans i would be ready with no down time.
Now the axle is seated right and you cant pull it out at all but im worried about the up down play in the diff. Should i rebuild it and if so what should i expect to pay if it's only the bearing and how hard is it to do ?? Or should i buy an AE trans that's available local to me right now for 750.00 and hope it's fine. I would appreciate any help from anyone on which route to take or even if the play is a problem, This is what happens when you buy someone else's headache but either way i gotta make it right so it is what it is and have to fix it.
When i bought it a couple months back i was told it needed an axle seal as it was leaking pretty bad.
i noticed the driver side axle had up and down play and you could grab hold of the axle and pull it out a couple inches from where it met the trans.
I went to put the driver side axle in tonight and got it done but when the axle was out the diff bearing had quite a bit of up and down play.
It is the best tranny shifting wise i have ever owned which is odd i guess.
i have to do a clutch and flywheel next week but wanted to do the axle first so i could inspect the diff bearing before doing the clutch so if i had to buy a trans i would be ready with no down time.
Now the axle is seated right and you cant pull it out at all but im worried about the up down play in the diff. Should i rebuild it and if so what should i expect to pay if it's only the bearing and how hard is it to do ?? Or should i buy an AE trans that's available local to me right now for 750.00 and hope it's fine. I would appreciate any help from anyone on which route to take or even if the play is a problem, This is what happens when you buy someone else's headache but either way i gotta make it right so it is what it is and have to fix it.
11-19-2011, 08:42 PM
#2
Newbie - Just Registered
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: lakeland,fl 863
Posts: 8
Honestly I have an 01 20th max 5 speed with the same problem. My advice is to replace diffeential and input shaft bearings as problem will get worse and cause fluid to start leaking like mine. Also when bearings are almost completly gone transmission will start to make a lot of noise. Best bet to get bearing kit which or lsd is about 260.00.
11-19-2011, 08:51 PM
#3
Honestly I have an 01 20th max 5 speed with the same problem. My advice is to replace diffeential and input shaft bearings as problem will get worse and cause fluid to start leaking like mine. Also when bearings are almost completly gone transmission will start to make a lot of noise. Best bet to get bearing kit which or lsd is about 260.00.
Mine was leaking already so i replaced the seal tonight with the new axle and cleaned up the oil under the car so we will see tomorrow, But leak aside it's still got play,Where did you get that price on the bearings ?
11-20-2011, 06:03 AM
#4
Do you get vibration when driving ? Its most noticeable when under load, for example when excelerating from about 50mph and up. Mine was bad . but went away if just coasting. And then came back under accel.
Mine had a large amount of play in the axle. In out up down, in out the hole 9. The drivers side is where its most noticeable.
I couldn't find a used vlsd trans at the time so I purchased a brand new one for $1900 . $750 is awsome price, but becarefull theres some shady yards out there . I took a 3hr drive to RI. And the trans was not a vlsd . I knew this by the look of the drivers side seal. And I brought my axle with me to double check fitment.
As far as the gear oil leak, that doesnt mean the bearings are bad. Mine had a leak right after install with a brand new axle. But after swapping the seal out again, I finally took the axle back to autozone. Swapped out for a new one and it stopped.
G/luck
Mine had a large amount of play in the axle. In out up down, in out the hole 9. The drivers side is where its most noticeable.
I couldn't find a used vlsd trans at the time so I purchased a brand new one for $1900 . $750 is awsome price, but becarefull theres some shady yards out there . I took a 3hr drive to RI. And the trans was not a vlsd . I knew this by the look of the drivers side seal. And I brought my axle with me to double check fitment.
As far as the gear oil leak, that doesnt mean the bearings are bad. Mine had a leak right after install with a brand new axle. But after swapping the seal out again, I finally took the axle back to autozone. Swapped out for a new one and it stopped.
G/luck
11-20-2011, 06:21 AM
#5
Member
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: NY
Posts: 116
The leak will get worst and then the bearing noise will begin as stated by the previous poster. The new axle seals is temporary. All that slop in the diff. bearing will chew up the new axle seal. You will need to drop the tranny to see if there are any shaft play in the input bearing. If there is side to side movement of the shaft then your best bet is a bearing and seal kit. Your gears and syncros are fine. If the shaft bearings are good, you might be able to get away with two diff. bearings and some new seals. Either way, the only way to find out is when the tranny is dropped. Bearing kits are readily available for the 5th gen. Depending on where you are, you can order a kit from advance auto or if you have a tranny supply warehouse nearby, walk in and buy a kit for a couple of bucks cheaper.
Just do it before a bearing falls apart inside the tranny and your tranny locks up. You will get plenty of advance notices, such as tranny noises. The noise will begin when the input shaft bearings starts to go, with the car in neutral and your foot off the clutch, there will be rumbling in the tranny from the play in the input shaft bearings (front and back). The input shaft bearings starts to wear because you have a diff. floating around inside that really isn't supported anymore because the diff bearings are shot and your are driving around with very little to no oil because it all leaked out of the axle seals.
Just do it before a bearing falls apart inside the tranny and your tranny locks up. You will get plenty of advance notices, such as tranny noises. The noise will begin when the input shaft bearings starts to go, with the car in neutral and your foot off the clutch, there will be rumbling in the tranny from the play in the input shaft bearings (front and back). The input shaft bearings starts to wear because you have a diff. floating around inside that really isn't supported anymore because the diff bearings are shot and your are driving around with very little to no oil because it all leaked out of the axle seals.
11-20-2011, 06:46 AM
#6
I referred another member to my brother for the source of his kit. I believe it was around 250 for Japanese bearings. They're out of L.A. I'll try to get the info for you when he comes over to pick up his Stillen kit this morning. Are you wanting just the bearings or will you be tackling the syncs as well?
11-20-2011, 06:51 AM
#7
My 97 with the 5spd has the same problem. Also only on the drivers side. I think that axle support bearing towards the front of the motor help keep the passenger drive shaft aligned and radial loads on the passenger diff bearing are minimized. One the driver's side, as the engine moves a bit with normal driving, radial loads in the bearing increase. Wheel hop or worn motor mounts exacerbate the problem.
I agree with the other posters. I replaced the seal and within a couple weeks the leak was back so that's obviously a temporary fix. You gotta replace the diff bearings to fix the problem. Because the transmission will be apart, it might be wise to replace all of the bearings and seals.
I agree with the other posters. I replaced the seal and within a couple weeks the leak was back so that's obviously a temporary fix. You gotta replace the diff bearings to fix the problem. Because the transmission will be apart, it might be wise to replace all of the bearings and seals.
11-20-2011, 08:35 AM
#8
FYI The diff bearings are cheap. Its the labor that costs big $$.
Its not a easy job. Ive done just about anything on my cars and choose not to fk with it..
Theres a write up kicken around here somewere if you search.
Heres the cause to alot of diff failures :
I know everyone is sold by the idea of putting polly motor mounts and etc, this puts alot of stress on your diff and your drivetrain. The torque has no were to but to your Diff and your trans....
Its not a easy job. Ive done just about anything on my cars and choose not to fk with it..
Theres a write up kicken around here somewere if you search.
Heres the cause to alot of diff failures :
I know everyone is sold by the idea of putting polly motor mounts and etc, this puts alot of stress on your diff and your drivetrain. The torque has no were to but to your Diff and your trans....
11-20-2011, 09:43 AM
#9
Diff bearings are common on these trannys, some reasearch in the 4th gen forum will probably prove fruitful. IIRC, someone said you can replace them without having to pull the tranny, but I find that hard to imagine.
Either way, if you have a known good tranny in hand, I'd be very tempted to put new diff bearings and seals in when you pull it to do the clutch. Do the IPS bearing and TB while you're in there. Pilot bearing would be a good one to do as well. And have a very close look at the Rear main seal, they've been known to leak over time, and if you have it apart, it's good PM.
It'll cost a few pennies but when you're done you'll have a pretty solid reliable setup if the tranny is already in good shape! Much better than rolling the dice on another used tranny that likely has the same or worse problems, or at least, will in the near future.
Either way, if you have a known good tranny in hand, I'd be very tempted to put new diff bearings and seals in when you pull it to do the clutch. Do the IPS bearing and TB while you're in there. Pilot bearing would be a good one to do as well. And have a very close look at the Rear main seal, they've been known to leak over time, and if you have it apart, it's good PM.
It'll cost a few pennies but when you're done you'll have a pretty solid reliable setup if the tranny is already in good shape! Much better than rolling the dice on another used tranny that likely has the same or worse problems, or at least, will in the near future.
11-20-2011, 09:56 AM
#10
I think this is a weak correlative association. The only link to diff bearings and the poly mounts is that it may exacerbate the problem. It is well documented that the Nissan 5spds have had relatively high premature bearing failure for years and through generations of the Maxima. The drivetrain design is for the bearings to remain stationary. The detriment to the bearings are caused by the movement of the bearing housing itself(poor shimming tolerances) which adds degrees of freedom that the bearings are not engineered to tolerate. Primary axial forces should be transmitted to the CV joint by design.
11-20-2011, 03:42 PM
#11
This is relative. If you R&I the trans yourself, the labor to replace the bearings is typically the same price as the bearings. OTOH, if you're paying labor for trans removal and installation AND the bearing replacement, it can get quite expensive.
This. Let a seasoned transmission guru do it. It's worth saving yourself the headache.
I think this is a weak correlative association. The only link to diff bearings and the poly mounts is that it may exacerbate the problem. It is well documented that the Nissan 5spds have had relatively high premature bearing failure for years and through generations of the Maxima. The drivetrain design is for the bearings to remain stationary. The detriment to the bearings are caused by the movement of the bearing housing itself(poor shimming tolerances) which adds degrees of freedom that the bearings are not engineered to tolerate. Primary axial forces should be transmitted to the CV joint by design.
This. Let a seasoned transmission guru do it. It's worth saving yourself the headache.
I think this is a weak correlative association. The only link to diff bearings and the poly mounts is that it may exacerbate the problem. It is well documented that the Nissan 5spds have had relatively high premature bearing failure for years and through generations of the Maxima. The drivetrain design is for the bearings to remain stationary. The detriment to the bearings are caused by the movement of the bearing housing itself(poor shimming tolerances) which adds degrees of freedom that the bearings are not engineered to tolerate. Primary axial forces should be transmitted to the CV joint by design.
That price seemed steap for a rebuil , I decided to just buy a new trans for 1900 since I was unable to find a used one it my area.
As far as the polly theory, its just my opinion . I've learned unless your building a true race car some of that stuff can do more harm then good.
11-21-2011, 01:41 PM
#12
Update: Smashed the axle and the seal in and it's not leaking from the seal anymore but i wonder even though i put the axle in the right way unlike it was before if i should still replace the trans because it still has that up and down play, No more in and out play though the old axle just wasn't seated right.
11-22-2011, 08:57 PM
#16
Had a guy at a local tranny shop tell me today if it's not leaking don't touch it but there def seems to be more than a mm of play there so idk. What's an average cost to replace the bearings in one of these ? or easier to buy a used one ? It was making a whining sound under hard acceleration before when the axle was loose but now it's gone and there's a light barely noticeable grind when your off the clutch but sounds like a TOB not the IPS bearings.
Last edited by 036mtmax; 11-22-2011 at 09:02 PM.
11-22-2011, 09:11 PM
#17
the throwout bearing can't make any noise when your foot is off the clutch... it's not spinning - it is just sitting there doing nothing. it only spins when you press the clutch pedal in.
replacing bearings would probably cost you $700-1000. you might be able to find someone who would do it for cheaper, especially if you pull the trans yourself and just take it to the trans shop. I paid $600 to have it done years and years go before i could do it myself, and that was a pretty good deal.
replacing bearings would probably cost you $700-1000. you might be able to find someone who would do it for cheaper, especially if you pull the trans yourself and just take it to the trans shop. I paid $600 to have it done years and years go before i could do it myself, and that was a pretty good deal.
11-23-2011, 11:44 AM
#18
I could pull it myself but i don't have a place to do it right now, The seal stopped leaking now but im sure the problem is still there,I figured if there was too much play in the bearings it would cause the seal to leak for sure because the seal cant seal correctly if the axle is moving oblong. To do or not to do...that is the question, I can grab my axle where it goes into the trans and if you grab it tight and pull hard up and down it clanks a little bit also. Thank's for the help Nealoc
11-27-2011, 11:52 AM
#19
Update: Seal started leaking again so it's def got a bad diff bearing, Anybody who has done a 5 speed swap have the specs to space out the clutch pedal from the firewall aqnd the best thing to use, pics would be helpfull ? The previous owner didn't space it right and the clutch smoked itself in a year and with the new clutch going in i don't want that to happen again. Im guessing it was staying somewhat engaged.
01-02-2012, 09:07 AM
#23
I don't spend much time in 5th gen, but I have some things for you to keep in mind:
- Leaky seal could be a leaky seal or scratched axle journal, but usually a worn diff bearing
- Some transmissions will give lots of warning and others will not. Once the bearings wear enough to create play they will cover the magnet with metal filings and then the metal filings move around in the oil and wreak havoc. If a piece of metal jams an input shaft bearing, it can destroy the whole transmission.
- Junkyard transmissions are not a bad place to start, but given the limited life of the diff bearings they should be assumed to need work. Invest $100 after buying a used or junkyard trans to have a shop pull it open and lift out the diff to inspect the bearings. If the bearings look good you can count on a good amount of life.
- If you drive around with worn bearings and leaky seals, keep the gear oil at the correct level. Low gear oil can cause sudden and catastrophic failures.
- If you are dealing with the leak and topping off the gear oil, keep in mind the output gearset is wearing at a highly accelerated rate due to misalignment and there are metal fines rolling around in the oil making everything wear faster. This gearset is the first to wear out in the transmission, and those parts cost $300. Rebuilding a trans without replacing worn out gears makes for a very noisy and fragile trans. So if you pay for the rebuild early, you can minimize the internal damage to the transmission.
- Poor shifting is unrelated to bearing damage. If a transmission is shifting poorly in/out of a particular gear, it's going to cost at least an extra few hundred dollars during the rebuild. Shift cleanly and use your clutch properly and avoid this trouble.
If you're near central PA and can bring me the transmission, a rebuild is not a big deal. My price cannot be beaten and I return in about 2 weeks. If you have an hour to spend during the dropoff, I'll take it apart some and we can determine how things look and how much needs to be replaced. There are plenty of competent rebuilders out there but the cost goes up for a full service garage to do the work and they won't have the parts on hand to keep things moving. (If a local shop manages to rebuild a 5 speed without ordering any parts, be very cautious...)
- Leaky seal could be a leaky seal or scratched axle journal, but usually a worn diff bearing
- Some transmissions will give lots of warning and others will not. Once the bearings wear enough to create play they will cover the magnet with metal filings and then the metal filings move around in the oil and wreak havoc. If a piece of metal jams an input shaft bearing, it can destroy the whole transmission.
- Junkyard transmissions are not a bad place to start, but given the limited life of the diff bearings they should be assumed to need work. Invest $100 after buying a used or junkyard trans to have a shop pull it open and lift out the diff to inspect the bearings. If the bearings look good you can count on a good amount of life.
- If you drive around with worn bearings and leaky seals, keep the gear oil at the correct level. Low gear oil can cause sudden and catastrophic failures.
- If you are dealing with the leak and topping off the gear oil, keep in mind the output gearset is wearing at a highly accelerated rate due to misalignment and there are metal fines rolling around in the oil making everything wear faster. This gearset is the first to wear out in the transmission, and those parts cost $300. Rebuilding a trans without replacing worn out gears makes for a very noisy and fragile trans. So if you pay for the rebuild early, you can minimize the internal damage to the transmission.
- Poor shifting is unrelated to bearing damage. If a transmission is shifting poorly in/out of a particular gear, it's going to cost at least an extra few hundred dollars during the rebuild. Shift cleanly and use your clutch properly and avoid this trouble.
If you're near central PA and can bring me the transmission, a rebuild is not a big deal. My price cannot be beaten and I return in about 2 weeks. If you have an hour to spend during the dropoff, I'll take it apart some and we can determine how things look and how much needs to be replaced. There are plenty of competent rebuilders out there but the cost goes up for a full service garage to do the work and they won't have the parts on hand to keep things moving. (If a local shop manages to rebuild a 5 speed without ordering any parts, be very cautious...)
01-02-2012, 01:52 PM
#25
I don't spend much time in 5th gen, but I have some things for you to keep in mind:
- Leaky seal could be a leaky seal or scratched axle journal, but usually a worn diff bearing
- Some transmissions will give lots of warning and others will not. Once the bearings wear enough to create play they will cover the magnet with metal filings and then the metal filings move around in the oil and wreak havoc. If a piece of metal jams an input shaft bearing, it can destroy the whole transmission.
- Junkyard transmissions are not a bad place to start, but given the limited life of the diff bearings they should be assumed to need work. Invest $100 after buying a used or junkyard trans to have a shop pull it open and lift out the diff to inspect the bearings. If the bearings look good you can count on a good amount of life.
- If you drive around with worn bearings and leaky seals, keep the gear oil at the correct level. Low gear oil can cause sudden and catastrophic failures.
- If you are dealing with the leak and topping off the gear oil, keep in mind the output gearset is wearing at a highly accelerated rate due to misalignment and there are metal fines rolling around in the oil making everything wear faster. This gearset is the first to wear out in the transmission, and those parts cost $300. Rebuilding a trans without replacing worn out gears makes for a very noisy and fragile trans. So if you pay for the rebuild early, you can minimize the internal damage to the transmission.
- Poor shifting is unrelated to bearing damage. If a transmission is shifting poorly in/out of a particular gear, it's going to cost at least an extra few hundred dollars during the rebuild. Shift cleanly and use your clutch properly and avoid this trouble.
If you're near central PA and can bring me the transmission, a rebuild is not a big deal. My price cannot be beaten and I return in about 2 weeks. If you have an hour to spend during the dropoff, I'll take it apart some and we can determine how things look and how much needs to be replaced. There are plenty of competent rebuilders out there but the cost goes up for a full service garage to do the work and they won't have the parts on hand to keep things moving. (If a local shop manages to rebuild a 5 speed without ordering any parts, be very cautious...)
- Leaky seal could be a leaky seal or scratched axle journal, but usually a worn diff bearing
- Some transmissions will give lots of warning and others will not. Once the bearings wear enough to create play they will cover the magnet with metal filings and then the metal filings move around in the oil and wreak havoc. If a piece of metal jams an input shaft bearing, it can destroy the whole transmission.
- Junkyard transmissions are not a bad place to start, but given the limited life of the diff bearings they should be assumed to need work. Invest $100 after buying a used or junkyard trans to have a shop pull it open and lift out the diff to inspect the bearings. If the bearings look good you can count on a good amount of life.
- If you drive around with worn bearings and leaky seals, keep the gear oil at the correct level. Low gear oil can cause sudden and catastrophic failures.
- If you are dealing with the leak and topping off the gear oil, keep in mind the output gearset is wearing at a highly accelerated rate due to misalignment and there are metal fines rolling around in the oil making everything wear faster. This gearset is the first to wear out in the transmission, and those parts cost $300. Rebuilding a trans without replacing worn out gears makes for a very noisy and fragile trans. So if you pay for the rebuild early, you can minimize the internal damage to the transmission.
- Poor shifting is unrelated to bearing damage. If a transmission is shifting poorly in/out of a particular gear, it's going to cost at least an extra few hundred dollars during the rebuild. Shift cleanly and use your clutch properly and avoid this trouble.
If you're near central PA and can bring me the transmission, a rebuild is not a big deal. My price cannot be beaten and I return in about 2 weeks. If you have an hour to spend during the dropoff, I'll take it apart some and we can determine how things look and how much needs to be replaced. There are plenty of competent rebuilders out there but the cost goes up for a full service garage to do the work and they won't have the parts on hand to keep things moving. (If a local shop manages to rebuild a 5 speed without ordering any parts, be very cautious...)
.....
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