The DIY subframe collar thread
03-29-2011, 03:30 PM
#1
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The DIY subframe collar thread
I go the idea for this by reading
Hacim105's thread and then PM Maxima Dude and figured i can do this. So here goes.
Ok so here is my write up on doing the subframe collar on your own with industrial washers.
The tools I used:
Bench grinder
Grinder- for opening the ID of the rear bottom washers
½ ratchet
½ inch breaker bar
½ drive 19mm socket
Hacksaw
Permatex anti seize lubricant
The washers I used are these
2 ¾ outside diameter and a 1 ¼ inside diameter and roughly 1/8 inch thick.
I needed 16 all together, but I bought a total of 24 just to be safe as the thickness varied slightly so I wanted each side to be matched up correctly and not one bigger than the other.
Ok for the rear subframe mounts I have 3 on top and 1 on the bottom.
The bottom washer ID needed to be ground out to measure roughly 1 ½ inch ID (I do not have a pic of this) so it could fit around the bulge of the cup, you’ll know what I mean when you unbolt the rear mounts. I used my hand grinder from Harbor Freight with a carbide bit. Ate thru the steel like a termite on wood.
The top mounts need to be notched to look like a C. In this photo the black area is what needs to be removed so they can slide in above the subframe. I used the hacksaw and then the bench grinder to clean any sharp edges.
Once you have notched them and opened the inside diameter on the bottom one you can install and tightened. Do this for both sides.
The front subframe mounts hold 2 washers on top and 2 on the bottom.
The top washers need to be notched like the rear ones did to make a C. The ID is a perfect fit so not opening. There are 2 washers on the bottom and only one needs a slight notching like so:
Once all the cutting is done install the C notched washers above the subframe and install the 2 washers on the bottom. The notched one is on top of the untouched washer. The lower washers fit perfectly as well so no opening on the ID is needed.
I didn’t take any pictures while installing due to my hands were covered with grease.
I did coat the washers with some permatex anti seize for 2 reason. Since these are metal I didn’t want to hear and squealing and also to prevent rust build up.
Pretty sure that is really all that is needed. If I missed anything just ask and I let you know. The job took me roughly 2 hours with cutting and such. If you have all the tools listed and a workbench this should be a 4 out of a 10 for ability.
Hacim105's thread and then PM Maxima Dude and figured i can do this. So here goes.
Ok so here is my write up on doing the subframe collar on your own with industrial washers.
The tools I used:
Bench grinder
Grinder- for opening the ID of the rear bottom washers
½ ratchet
½ inch breaker bar
½ drive 19mm socket
Hacksaw
Permatex anti seize lubricant
The washers I used are these
2 ¾ outside diameter and a 1 ¼ inside diameter and roughly 1/8 inch thick.
I needed 16 all together, but I bought a total of 24 just to be safe as the thickness varied slightly so I wanted each side to be matched up correctly and not one bigger than the other.
Ok for the rear subframe mounts I have 3 on top and 1 on the bottom.
The bottom washer ID needed to be ground out to measure roughly 1 ½ inch ID (I do not have a pic of this) so it could fit around the bulge of the cup, you’ll know what I mean when you unbolt the rear mounts. I used my hand grinder from Harbor Freight with a carbide bit. Ate thru the steel like a termite on wood.
The top mounts need to be notched to look like a C. In this photo the black area is what needs to be removed so they can slide in above the subframe. I used the hacksaw and then the bench grinder to clean any sharp edges.
Once you have notched them and opened the inside diameter on the bottom one you can install and tightened. Do this for both sides.
The front subframe mounts hold 2 washers on top and 2 on the bottom.
The top washers need to be notched like the rear ones did to make a C. The ID is a perfect fit so not opening. There are 2 washers on the bottom and only one needs a slight notching like so:
Once all the cutting is done install the C notched washers above the subframe and install the 2 washers on the bottom. The notched one is on top of the untouched washer. The lower washers fit perfectly as well so no opening on the ID is needed.
I didn’t take any pictures while installing due to my hands were covered with grease.
I did coat the washers with some permatex anti seize for 2 reason. Since these are metal I didn’t want to hear and squealing and also to prevent rust build up.
Pretty sure that is really all that is needed. If I missed anything just ask and I let you know. The job took me roughly 2 hours with cutting and such. If you have all the tools listed and a workbench this should be a 4 out of a 10 for ability.
Last edited by jeff5347; 03-29-2011 at 03:33 PM.
03-29-2011, 03:44 PM
#3
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Ok so i took it for a very short ride and im sure not long enough to get a good idea of what it has really done.
Night and day difference: not from my little test drive
Difference at all: yes
Worth it: i think so but need more miles driven
I was only able to go a mile from my house and back but here is my initial impressions. I think due to the washers being metal there is an increase in NVH at idle. While driving not to much difference in that area. Keep in mind also i still have my snows on so im sure it is still feeling sloppy from them.
I notice the cracks and bumps and junk on the road the car took better. Didn't seem to bang all the ones it used to. I have an area where the road kind of ripples and the car would feel like it was on a pogo stick so to speak. It wasn't really bad you just could feel the up and down movement. It seems now it hasn't canceled it out but definitely lessened it. Even with the snows on it feels like better steering response but i will know better tomorrow once i can get up to a good speed and hit the highway.
I noticed before in dips or bumps in the road it seemed to float and come down after hitting them. Some one stating the same thing almost like the body was catching up with the subframe. It definitely feels more tied together now. It doesn't have the floaty feeling from just the little drive i did.
I did notice taking a corner to my house at the same speed as usual i had a tire squeal. I figure that is from less subframe/body movement and more of the suspension making the tires really work harder.
To 2000MAximaKing, i live in mass and tried HD, LOWES and a mom and pop store. No one had the washers that big. I finally had to go to a industrial supply place for stuff like caterpillars and big trucks. For anyone in mass it is in Auburn MA named Alpine Industrial.
Tomorrow i will try to do a better review since i will driven on my normal roads and will have a better idea as to what it has doe.
Night and day difference: not from my little test drive
Difference at all: yes
Worth it: i think so but need more miles driven
I was only able to go a mile from my house and back but here is my initial impressions. I think due to the washers being metal there is an increase in NVH at idle. While driving not to much difference in that area. Keep in mind also i still have my snows on so im sure it is still feeling sloppy from them.
I notice the cracks and bumps and junk on the road the car took better. Didn't seem to bang all the ones it used to. I have an area where the road kind of ripples and the car would feel like it was on a pogo stick so to speak. It wasn't really bad you just could feel the up and down movement. It seems now it hasn't canceled it out but definitely lessened it. Even with the snows on it feels like better steering response but i will know better tomorrow once i can get up to a good speed and hit the highway.
I noticed before in dips or bumps in the road it seemed to float and come down after hitting them. Some one stating the same thing almost like the body was catching up with the subframe. It definitely feels more tied together now. It doesn't have the floaty feeling from just the little drive i did.
I did notice taking a corner to my house at the same speed as usual i had a tire squeal. I figure that is from less subframe/body movement and more of the suspension making the tires really work harder.
To 2000MAximaKing, i live in mass and tried HD, LOWES and a mom and pop store. No one had the washers that big. I finally had to go to a industrial supply place for stuff like caterpillars and big trucks. For anyone in mass it is in Auburn MA named Alpine Industrial.
Tomorrow i will try to do a better review since i will driven on my normal roads and will have a better idea as to what it has doe.
03-29-2011, 07:48 PM
#5
Yea awesome write up, thanks man. Only problems for me is finding the washers and finding someone who has the tools to cut the washers since I don't have the tools and I'm not going to purchase them just for one project you know.
03-29-2011, 07:50 PM
#6
How about you make your own sets? Buy the washers, cut them and make a set of instructions and we can purchase them from you, of course they would have to come out cheaper then the other subframe collars 
03-30-2011, 04:52 AM
#7
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Yea if i did that it would def be cheaper just because the washers themselves were cheaper. Def something to think about. Ill keep u posted.
03-31-2011, 06:30 AM
#8
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So i was able to go for a good long drive yesterday on my regular roads travels. Going over the highway, back roads, construction roads and such. All i can say is these are phenomenal. The washers tie the subframe nice and tight to the body giving it a very solid feel.
I think before these when you would hit a crack, bump or whatever the subframe was flexing in a different motion then the body. This gave my car a bang sound and not tight feeling when hitting ripples and expansion joints and such. Now the car actually handles better in the sense that not every imperfection is felt. Steering response is so much nicer now.
Another thing i noticed is acceleration. I think before these when accelerating some of the force would be transferred into flexing the subframe then putting power down. Now there is an immediate reaction when stepping on the gas. Not the lag as before.
Driving over the highway at speed is great. Expansion joints, rippled concrete, dips in the road,.. these are all greatly less noticeable.
All i can imagine is putting subframe connectors and a ltb on to almost have everything "welded" together. Wish i did this sooner and once i get my summer tires back on and the snows off this is gonna be a real fun ride.
I think before these when you would hit a crack, bump or whatever the subframe was flexing in a different motion then the body. This gave my car a bang sound and not tight feeling when hitting ripples and expansion joints and such. Now the car actually handles better in the sense that not every imperfection is felt. Steering response is so much nicer now.
Another thing i noticed is acceleration. I think before these when accelerating some of the force would be transferred into flexing the subframe then putting power down. Now there is an immediate reaction when stepping on the gas. Not the lag as before.
Driving over the highway at speed is great. Expansion joints, rippled concrete, dips in the road,.. these are all greatly less noticeable.
All i can imagine is putting subframe connectors and a ltb on to almost have everything "welded" together. Wish i did this sooner and once i get my summer tires back on and the snows off this is gonna be a real fun ride.
03-31-2011, 06:44 AM
#10
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Thanks Nmex, honestly this is not really hard thing to make. Just finding the right washers was a b!tch. Im contemplating on making some if anyone cant find them but wants to do this.
Edit: also if i do this i will have access to some better tools to do the cutting and such. I just used what i had at the time as it was just going on my car
Edit: also if i do this i will have access to some better tools to do the cutting and such. I just used what i had at the time as it was just going on my car
03-31-2011, 07:04 AM
#11
If I'm interpreting this right, the primary functional value of the sub-frame collars comes by way of the increased surface area at the point-of-contact, more so than the collar material itself. Yes? Essentially, the collars make the sub-frame connections larger.
I say that because the kit sold here on the Org is some kind of plastic. And I was under the impression that the plastic material also contributed a damping effect, resulting in the perception of a ride that was "more solid" and yet "softer", both at the same time... which is exactly the sense I had after installation.
I say that because the kit sold here on the Org is some kind of plastic. And I was under the impression that the plastic material also contributed a damping effect, resulting in the perception of a ride that was "more solid" and yet "softer", both at the same time... which is exactly the sense I had after installation.
03-31-2011, 08:25 AM
#12
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If I'm interpreting this right, the primary functional value of the sub-frame collars comes by way of the increased surface area at the point-of-contact, more so than the collar material itself. Yes? Essentially, the collars make the sub-frame connections larger.
I say that because the kit sold here on the Org is some kind of plastic. And I was under the impression that the plastic material also contributed a damping effect, resulting in the perception of a ride that was "more solid" and yet "softer", both at the same time... which is exactly the sense I had after installation.
I say that because the kit sold here on the Org is some kind of plastic. And I was under the impression that the plastic material also contributed a damping effect, resulting in the perception of a ride that was "more solid" and yet "softer", both at the same time... which is exactly the sense I had after installation.
The metal washers obviously are solid. No deflection or give. With the metal ones installed i honestly feel the ride is softer to a point but also giving the ride a more quality feel. Along with better turn in, th. response, less feeling of imperfections on the road and a all around more enjoyable ride Like others said making the springs and struts do the work completely. Meaning the frame stays in a fixed position with no movement.
This is the way a BMW is made. The frame and body have much more structural bracing enhancing its stability than our maximas so they are able to use softer springs and struts to make a softer, more comfortable ride. Making the suspension take the brunt of the work. Now on a bmw i assume adding better springs and struts turns them into real handling performers.
I noticed no ill effects of the metal. In my 68 camaro i have del a lum bushing in the subframe
These made also a much better (not sloppy or squirrley) ride but also no ill effects in NVH.
Last edited by jeff5347; 03-31-2011 at 08:30 AM.
03-31-2011, 10:00 AM
#13
nice Jeff, thanks for the longer drive impressions.
I must point out this. After contemplating this mod and putting it to the side, untill this DIY.
Did anyone think about how these would actually raise the front of your car a bit... I mean its fractions... but in theory it still is raising your front.
Jeff I can attest that the LTB does everything you have described and more
and I would guess that these would probably be a nice compliment to each other. i am also thinking on the same note that these may not even be noticable if you have a LTB allready as in my case.
I must point out this. After contemplating this mod and putting it to the side, untill this DIY.
Did anyone think about how these would actually raise the front of your car a bit... I mean its fractions... but in theory it still is raising your front.
Jeff I can attest that the LTB does everything you have described and more
and I would guess that these would probably be a nice compliment to each other. i am also thinking on the same note that these may not even be noticable if you have a LTB allready as in my case.
03-31-2011, 11:03 AM
#14
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nice Jeff, thanks for the longer drive impressions.
I must point out this. After contemplating this mod and putting it to the side, untill this DIY.
Did anyone think about how these would actually raise the front of your car a bit... I mean its fractions... but in theory it still is raising your front.
Jeff I can attest that the LTB does everything you have described and more and I would guess that these would probably be a nice compliment to each other. i am also thinking on the same note that these may not even be noticable if you have a LTB allready as in my case.
I must point out this. After contemplating this mod and putting it to the side, untill this DIY.
Did anyone think about how these would actually raise the front of your car a bit... I mean its fractions... but in theory it still is raising your front.
Jeff I can attest that the LTB does everything you have described and more
and I would guess that these would probably be a nice compliment to each other. i am also thinking on the same note that these may not even be noticable if you have a LTB allready as in my case.I do think adding these to even a car that has the LTB will see a difference because that gap is being filled. I dont have a LTB
but im willing to bet the difference would be felt. im willing to be also a ltb 1 or 2 along with this would be unbelievable. Thought about doing a LTB myself but availability to a pipe bender is non exestent but i do have access to a welder. Maybe someday i will take that on as a project. But anyway Prophecy, i think if you did this since you already have the LTB... it would be pure joy in driving.
Edit: Another not on if it will be a gain along w/ the LTB.. look at the rear bracing they make for the Z's, Evos, Impreza's. There is a ton of braces to add to those cars that tie this and that together and also the braces that they make for them for the front end. The more structure and solid points the better the car will be in every aspect of driving.
Also The washers might weigh 1/2 lb and im assuming the LTB weighs less than 10. So you are gaining everything but essentially losing nothing.
Last edited by jeff5347; 03-31-2011 at 11:08 AM.
03-31-2011, 11:07 AM
#15
There is no noticeable change in ride height by installing these collars - either the DIY ones or the 'pro' ones being sold here.
Though I would like to see the pro ones made out of milled aluminum, rather than the VERY rigid plastic they're made of.
Though I would like to see the pro ones made out of milled aluminum, rather than the VERY rigid plastic they're made of.
03-31-2011, 08:14 PM
#19
04-01-2011, 04:25 AM
#23
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all that is needed for the upper washers on the front and rear is to slot them to the shape of a C. The ID of 1 1/4 inch is perfect and fits snugly around the stock bushing. A hammer maybe needed as like mine as a slight film of some rust and dirt and junk had accumulated. But once all that is cleaned off mine slid on like like con.. um.. glove
04-01-2011, 10:26 AM
#25
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^^^^
I gotta work tonight and tomorrow night. Give me a couple days and ill see what it will cost to get the washers and cut them and all and i can then give you and 2000 Maxima king (Havent forgot about you
) what it would it would be
Also on the 4g this was honestly bread out of something i figured i could do my self. I dont have access to a 4th gen so at this point probably not.
I gotta work tonight and tomorrow night. Give me a couple days and ill see what it will cost to get the washers and cut them and all and i can then give you and 2000 Maxima king (Havent forgot about you
) what it would it would beAlso on the 4g this was honestly bread out of something i figured i could do my self. I dont have access to a 4th gen so at this point probably not.
04-02-2011, 04:19 PM
#28
Great question! Yes. Especially, run-of-the-mill washers. The washers that are cut will be the most prone. Those who live in areas where salt is applied would be most effected, but they'll rust anywhere eventually. The plastic/composite has the advantage in this context.
04-02-2011, 07:26 PM
#31
As far as brass washers...
1. I don't think they're as easy to get as you may think.
2. Brass is a relatively soft metal.
04-02-2011, 07:56 PM
#32
You could definitely paint it. I don't know how many people would actually prep the washers so that the paint would adhere properly. Salt is still going to be a problem. This may be another use for PlastiDip.
As far as brass washers...
1. I don't think they're as easy to get as you may think.
2. Brass is a relatively soft metal.
As far as brass washers...
1. I don't think they're as easy to get as you may think.
2. Brass is a relatively soft metal.
04-03-2011, 04:32 PM
#34
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Great question! Yes. Especially, run-of-the-mill washers. The washers that are cut will be the most prone. Those who live in areas where salt is applied would be most effected, but they'll rust anywhere eventually. The plastic/composite has the advantage in this context.
04-03-2011, 06:22 PM
#35
honestly all anyone would need to do is go to auto zone and buy a spray can of undercoating. Its a rubbery compound. Just clean the area and spray it one. It wont let and dirt sand or anything in. I put the anti seize on and that also is a water repellant so i shouldn't see any rust.
05-10-2013, 04:54 PM
#38
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Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 294
What exactly is the purpose of this? I couldn't quite deduce it from scanning the thread.
As far as keeping the washers from rusting and having all the dust/dirt/etc stick to the anti seize, I'd just coat the washers in POR-15 individually, then when they are dried, install.
POR is awesome stuff.
As far as keeping the washers from rusting and having all the dust/dirt/etc stick to the anti seize, I'd just coat the washers in POR-15 individually, then when they are dried, install.
POR is awesome stuff.
05-11-2013, 07:37 AM
#39
Simply put, subframe collars significantly reduce all sorts of slop from the subframe. Right now it's held to the frame by bolts with rubber bushings. These tighten up the looseness of those rubber bushings. It's felt in your steering and suspension.