Moog swaybar end-links: are they _too_ big?

ridinwitha35 · 11-05-2009, 05:00 PM

I've gone through two sets of Moog end links so far. First set, one of the links seized up (joint wouldn't rotate at all). This second set isn't physically bad yet, but the problem is that I have to tighten them ever so often (like once or twice a month). I know it's time to tighten if I hear/feel popping sounds or if the car is just "loud" going over rough crossings such as railroad tracks.

What's been on my mind is the clearance that these end-links have with the control arm; there's hardly any. This makes me wonder if this is the reason why they keep loosening their-selves...possibly 'cause they pivot against the control arm. Has anyone had this problem or issue?

PS: I torque them down to spec (about 40 ft-lbs) while on the ramps every time. I know I can just hit it with the impact/breaker but fear that might do more bad than good.

*rroderiques77* · 11-05-2009, 05:47 PM

Try tightening them without the load on the vehicle.

Nelsito65 · 11-05-2009, 06:07 PM

When I did mine I tightened them without the load of the vehicle.
I also agree that they are too big and I think that the cause of the clunking sound I hear, when going over speed bumps, is because of the minimal clearance between them and the LCA. The picture below shows the difference in size between the stock ones and the Moogs.

Edit: I've heard concerns from other org members because of how close they sit to the LCA.

*Lontar1* · 11-05-2009, 06:10 PM

the size is not a problem.. I have them and have no problem

*rroderiques77* · 11-05-2009, 06:18 PM

^^^^this

Unklejoe · 11-05-2009, 06:22 PM

If they are both too big, I wouldn't think it would matter because it will just offset the position of the sway bar.

Also, you could try some loctite next time you tighten the bolts.

ridinwitha35 · 11-05-2009, 06:31 PM

Unklejoe, I mean "big" in the sense that the ball joint & its enclosure is bigger; the offset from the top & bottom studs are the same as that of OEM end links.

For example, in Nelsito's picture above, the distance from the center of the bottom stud to the bottom of the link is greater on the Moog links.

So those of you who say they don't have a problem...are you saying:

A) They might be hitting the LCA, but it's not a major issue
or
B) They aren't hitting the LCA so there is no issue

As far as tightening while not under load, I was basing that off of what the FSM says about rubber suspension parts...but I guess since there is no "bushing" it doesn't apply.

Unklejoe · 11-05-2009, 07:02 PM

Oh I see, that makes sense. I will be installing mine this weekend, so I'll post back if there's a problem.

PulsarGTS · 11-05-2009, 07:42 PM

Never had an issue out of mine. Perhaps they aren't installed correctly?

Rochester · 11-05-2009, 08:14 PM

How often do you think these MOOG end-links need to be packed?

Age, or miles?

*djfrestyl* · 11-05-2009, 08:22 PM

They fit. No worries about the size. I've installed many many of them.

edit: When I tighten them (no load on the vehicle), I use a pry bar to 'raise' them off the control arm a bit. No noise.

*Deckdout2* · 11-05-2009, 08:34 PM

I chose option B.

I would check the other variables of the suspension as well. There are many other components that might need addressing to pinpoint your issues.

CMax03 · 11-05-2009, 08:50 PM

Those endlinks are beefy as hell and have been installed o my car for close to 2 yrs no problems or noises! You may wanna check out your suspension out thoroughly there's something else going on....

*kgallerie* · 11-06-2009, 07:26 AM

Same here...

I've had them for over a year and havent touched them since. They fixed my clunking and have been quiet ever since.

If you think they are hitting the LCA, take a look for marks on the link and LCA where they would be hitting. I would think that it definitely would leave a mark on one of them if they were hitting.

ridinwitha35 · 11-06-2009, 07:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PulsarGTS

Never had an issue out of mine. Perhaps they aren't installed correctly?

How is that possible...after installation, the joints are sitting at perfect right angles, they're torqued to spec (while loaded), and they're fine/tight/quiet until they get loosened up. Where can I go wrong?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochester

How often do you think these MOOG end-links need to be packed?

Age, or miles?

Probably just by visual inspection...so a combination of both really. You can easily peel the rubber insulator back to expose the actual ball joint & if it looks a little dry, throw some grease in there.

Quote:

Originally Posted by djfrestyl

They fit. No worries about the size. I've installed many many of them.

edit: When I tighten them (no load on the vehicle), I use a pry bar to 'raise' them off the control arm a bit. No noise.

OK maybe I should try that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMax03

Those endlinks are beefy as hell and have been installed o my car for close to 2 yrs no problems or noises! You may wanna check out your suspension out thoroughly there's something else going on....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckdout2

I chose option B.

I would check the other variables of the suspension as well. There are many other components that might need addressing to pinpoint your issues.

Since you guys allude to something else being the problem, my steering/suspension has been fully upgraded except for the rack (which I think is bad), but doubt that it could contribute to end-link problems. What other variables can lead to these end links loosening their-selves if you've got new control arms, swaybar/subframe bushings, struts & mounts & bearings, and inner/outer tie rods?

ridinwitha35 · 11-06-2009, 07:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kgallerie

Same here...

I've had them for over a year and havent touched them since. They fixed my clunking and have been quiet ever since.

If you think they are hitting the LCA, take a look for marks on the link and LCA where they would be hitting. I would think that it definitely would leave a mark on one of them if they were hitting.

I can't be sure that they're hitting the LCA....it was just a hypothesis on why they keep getting loosened. I'll try the suggestions listed (tighten with no load, use pry bar to raise 'em up a bit, usage of loctite) & see what happens but just was wondering what everybody else out there thought.

*djfrestyl* · 11-06-2009, 07:51 AM

What are you using to torque them down? Maybe you just need some more power to get them tighter. I zip them on with an impact gun.

ridinwitha35 · 11-06-2009, 09:28 AM

Just a torque wrench set between 40-45 ft-lbs.

Some old references:
1) Funky noises after replacing Sway Bar End Links

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt_01SE_20th

I had the same problem with my MOOG end link. The ends are substantially larger than the stock ones. this causes the bar link to bind between the control arm and the stabilizer bar, instead of being free to rotate.

another thread, possibly of interest:
2) Front end clunk = oblong stabilizer hole?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Love_00_Max

My front end clunks over speed bumps drives me nuts. I don't hear any noises on highways becoz the concrete highway noise masks any suspension noises. I installed MOOG endlinks and it was fine for a few months and then the sounds came -- it was never there when I had OEM links. I am going to check them out this weekend.

...

What a coincidence, I too must have had the MOOGs for a yr and the clunks are all over the place. Gladly I have the OEM links in the garage, I will put them back on the vehicle. I don't mind having a non-firm ride, but I just cannot deal with clunks, it really bothers me.

*Deckdout2* · 11-06-2009, 11:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ridinwitha35

Since you guys allude to something else being the problem, my steering/suspension has been fully upgraded except for the rack (which I think is bad), but doubt that it could contribute to end-link problems. What other variables can lead to these end links loosening their-selves if you've got new control arms, swaybar/subframe bushings, struts & mounts & bearings, and inner/outer tie rods?

My driver's side axle is busted and my wheel bearings are shot. Have you replaced those or looked into that yet?

CMax03 · 11-07-2009, 12:10 AM

Check all your motor mounts please!....when worn it sounds like suspension components!

ridinwitha35 · 11-07-2009, 06:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Deckdout2

My driver's side axle is busted and my wheel bearings are shot. Have you replaced those or looked into that yet?

Lucky you! But I haven't had any indication of a bad axle (boots are fine, no clicking) or bad bearing (no 12/6 o'clock looseness at wheel or growling).

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMax03

Check all your motor mounts please!....when worn it sounds like suspension components!

I understand. But the problems I have also affect handling. Can bad mounts cause more than just a little vibration & abnormal sounds (of course for the non-extreme case)?

I don't want to get too far off in turning the thread into a fix-my-problem thread since I've got another one going already, but still curious to see what people say about their Moog end links loosening up after a while.

*boondoxmax* · 11-07-2009, 06:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CMax03

Check all your motor mounts please!....when worn it sounds like suspension components!

+1 I thought my strut mounts needed to be replaced and it turned out the be the motor mounts. When they go bad they sound like a suspension problem. I also have the moog without any problems. Can't believe my mounts are worn out at 75000 miles. Geezzzzzz