Harder to stop =/ - Page 2

*MidN1te* · 07-08-2009, 07:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

IS there *anything* you did to the car near the same time as when this started to occur?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt93SE

negative.. i have not touched the car minus lowering the car.. never touched anything else.

Did they do the brake job and THEN this happened, or within a few weeks of them doing a brake job?
what about engine work? Have you done anything under the hood recently?

when i bought the car, i noticed the car had baaaad rotors so i had them replace the rotors and pads...even then they only grabbed a little better than it does now...no engine work at all.

Did this just immediately happen and stay this bad, or has it been slowly getting worse over time?

i believe i noticed this slowly declining.. it does feel like sometimes it grabs better on cooler days than it does on hotter days...

what brand and type of brake pads did the shop install on the car when they did the job?
(If you don't know, then it was probably the $19 junk pads at Autozone and they're absolute crapola.)

the brake pads are the cheapies... duralast.. i'm sure they arent ceramic.. but again.. wat gets me is that when i first had this problem in my other 2002 maxima with the same round about mileage, i replaced with axxis pads, crossdrilled/slotted rotors and had the brakes bled as well..

Has the car ALWAYS been like this, or you've had the car for years and this started recently?

i purchased the car back in January... and the car did feel more powerful then.. i'm not sure since its cuz its hot now that its just not as powerful and now has 109k on the car... i think i may need to change the plugs now.. and also i know that this car burns oil.. since its the vq35, they do that.. but when i put new fresh oil and or oil change.. the car feels more peppy but the brake feel doesnt change... i also checked the lines to see if there is any leakage.. non.. as a matter of fact.. the fluid is above the MAX line... and no hoses have been removed nor anything missing from what i can see..

SteveB123 · 07-09-2009, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidN1te

well... i dont know hahaha..

soooo.. it made sense to me that if i replaced all 4 of the release valves with speed bleeders, i would just turn them all 1/4 turn, keep pumping the brakes while making sure i keep filling up new fluid in the master cylinder untill all new fluid has replaced the old... then close up the speed bleeders..

Well, yes, it'll work....you'll need four pieces of hoses on the bleeders, and four containers for the ends of the hoses, of course, or you'll have brake fluid over all and sundry.

nzelinsky · 07-09-2009, 04:20 PM

omg lol bleed them one at a time or your going to have alot of problems. Also, dont overfill the reserve thats not going to help your problem any.

Have somebody else pump your brakes and inspect the calipers for motion one at a time. Also, check the power going through the brakebooster/master cylinder and see if its working properly

good luck

*MidN1te* · 07-09-2009, 04:43 PM

hahahaha... i was just throwing that theory out there guys..

most likely i'll just have the wifey pump the brakes while i just bleed them... just much more "eyes on" as you said nzelinsky...

we'll see where that goes first... man.. i just hate NOT knowing whats the real deal considering i been through this already with my last maxima =/

Norm Peterson · 07-10-2009, 06:39 AM

Actually, I'd think that it would be nearly impossible to guarantee anywhere near equal flow rates out all of the bleeders at the same time. The ones with "lazy" flow would take longer to clear and you'd only be throwing a lot of fluid away out the good-flowing ones.

Norm

ridinwitha35 · 07-21-2009, 01:48 AM

I just installed SpeedBleeders on my front calipers. I did more of a flush than a bleed with Valvoline DOT3/4 fluid (one caliper at a time though). Took about 4-5 sets of 8 brake pedal pumps. 1 set = # of pumps before the master cylinder fluid was half-way & I had to top it off. Old fluid had a lot of black stuff in it.

End result: brakes bite much earlier and harder. I say just flush your fluid...it can only be for the better.

PS: Make sure you close the SpeedBleeder as tight as possible so that it doesn't put out fluid when you think you tightened them to the "close" position & you brake. Test that before you actually need to use the brakes, and also check your fluid level after a good drive!

viperboy · 07-21-2009, 02:09 AM

I seem to have had this problem all along since I got the car. I changed out the rear rotors and calipers cause they were going and replaced the front brake lines because they were going too and my pedal always feels soft to me. Like I can put the pedal to the floor without much force, especially when stopped.

Also, when the brakes get wet - be it rain or a car wash, the brakes feel even softer. Anyone have any ideas? It's not a big problem, maybe the brakes on these Jap cars are so different from my VWs that it's just odd to get used to.

SteveB123 · 07-26-2009, 05:08 PM

Reason for a recent rear caliper change:

Nice piston, eh?

Quote:

Originally Posted by NmexMAX

Ya, but IMO, I don't think it's a seized caliper. Not sure where that logic came from.

Just a lucky guess.

*MidN1te* · 11-08-2009, 06:08 AM

UPDATE....So yesterday... I installed Brand cross drilled/slotted rotors, new ceramic brake pads, New Goodridge SS lines... AAAND ALL 4 brand new oem calipers... obviously new fluid...

The car does grab better... it feels like it stops better...

but it still doesnt have that initial push...

i dont know if the brake master cylinder is goin? but i dont know what it would feel like if it does...

i guess i could replace that too but i might as well replace the brake booster while doing so.

but my brakes do feel alot better...

Rochester · 11-08-2009, 06:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidN1te

UPDATE....So yesterday... I installed Brand cross drilled/slotted rotors, new ceramic brake pads, New Goodridge SS lines... AAAND ALL 4 brand new oem calipers... obviously new fluid...

...but my brakes do feel a lot better...

Hey MidN1te, congrats on your new brake setup.

Did you paint those new OEM calipers before putting them on? The surface on the OEM's is so crude, I've always wondered if they could be successfully bead-blasted first.

*MidN1te* · 11-08-2009, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rochester

Hey MidN1te, congrats on your new brake setup.

Did you paint those new OEM calipers before putting them on? The surface on the OEM's is so crude, I've always wondered if they could be successfully bead-blasted first.

Hey buddy! Yep, just used red caliper paint. Works very well. I just washed the calipers first with some purple power and dried them so they were greasless then i just sprayed them. Worked like a charm!

Hey do u know of a write up on how to change the brake booster and the master brake cylinder? Think that may be my culprit. I mean hell ecerythibg else is frick new lol

Rochester · 11-08-2009, 07:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidN1te

Hey buddy! Yep, just used red caliper paint. Works very well. I just washed the calipers first with some purple power and dried them so they were greasless then i just sprayed them. Worked like a charm!

Hey do u know of a write up on how to change the brake booster and the master brake cylinder? Think that may be my culprit. I mean hell ecerythibg else is frick new lol

I can't help you there. Sorry I went OT on your brakes, but I'm curious about painting the OEM calipers. Looking through your thread, it sure reads like your problem is in the master cylinder. Good luck, man.

*MidN1te* · 11-08-2009, 08:39 AM

yea i've painted a few calipers.. very easy and looks good

just make sure you clean well with purple power and a rag.. and let it thoroughly dry..

I just found the brake boost And brake master cylinder for 265 shipped so i'mma grab those and just replace... if that doesnt do it... not sure what will hahaha.. the vacuum lines seem just fine but i'll replace that hose that goes to the booster as well just incase...

FlipCpt45 · 11-08-2009, 12:47 PM

hmm.. it could just mean you need SS brake lines.. the original rubber lines or w.e could be expanded and taking out line pressure... my mom's 96's brake pedal feels better than my 01.. Nobody drives that car hard.. unlike my car lol

Norm Peterson · 11-08-2009, 04:03 PM

I found that a slight adjustment of pedal height helped the brake feel in my 20AE (2001) considerably.

I cannot over-emphasize the word "slight" here. Adjust the pedal up too much and they'll lock up solid from thermal expansion effects.

I also don't really know why it worked, but it did.

Norm

*MidN1te* · 11-08-2009, 05:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlipCpt45

hmm.. it could just mean you need SS brake lines.. the original rubber lines or w.e could be expanded and taking out line pressure... my mom's 96's brake pedal feels better than my 01.. Nobody drives that car hard.. unlike my car lol

I did... i replaced the lines to SS goodridge, brand new calipers, new ceramic pads, new crossdrilled slotted rotors..

the BITE is there.. but its lost its extra OOMPH..

*crazy97* · 11-08-2009, 11:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidN1te

I did... i replaced the lines to SS goodridge, brand new calipers, new ceramic pads, new crossdrilled slotted rotors..

the BITE is there.. but its lost its extra OOMPH..

Did you bed them in? Doesnt sound like you did.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Clean off the oil on the new rotors before install??

Norm Peterson · 11-09-2009, 05:49 AM

I'm not convinced that a ceramic pad will feel as good as a semi-metallic or ferro-carbon pad. Not yet, anyway.

The clear advantages of ceramic are in low noise, low dusting, and low rotor wear rates.

"Ceramic" seems to be the new buzz-word that implies that it's a be-all, end-all solution to everybody's braking needs. It's not. Buy them for the right reasons, look elsewhere if your needs differ.

And whatever pads you end up with, do bed them in properly.

Norm

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy97

Did you bed them in? Doesnt sound like you did.

http://www.zeckhausen.com/bedding_in_brakes.htm

Clean off the oil on the new rotors before install??

Yes...i've done all my rotors and pads this way. I do this especially on my turbo s2000 for racing purposes...

that's the first thing i do when replacing new brakes...

but thats good you brought that up because not many people know about bedding..

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Norm Peterson

I'm not convinced that a ceramic pad will feel as good as a semi-metallic or ferro-carbon pad. Not yet, anyway.

The clear advantages of ceramic are in low noise, low dusting, and low rotor wear rates.

"Ceramic" seems to be the new buzz-word that implies that it's a be-all, end-all solution to everybody's braking needs. It's not. Buy them for the right reasons, look elsewhere if your needs differ.

And whatever pads you end up with, do bed them in properly.

Norm

other than the clear advantages you stated, the ceramics DO feel alot different than semi-metallic. I can definately feel the bite is harder and smoother. On the semi-metallic, it grinds more and the feed back you get from the two are actually very noticeable.

That's on the maxima as well as my turbo s2000. I've done a few cars and i've never looked back. They are definately worth it. Even the Wifey said its noticeble when she drives the 2 cars.

Ofcourse this is all by feel, and not raw data. But doing the racing and driving I do, feedback from the car is very important and the cars definately talk to me and let me know what they like.

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 06:24 AM

mind you at around this mileage of 110 or so, my old 2002 maxima did the same thing.. changed all the brakes rotors, bled and bedded and everything... Same results...

My cousins 03 maxima has 60k on it now... i remember a couple years ago the brakes were awesome.. but its starting to slowly not be as strong as it used to be even with their new brakes...

On my old 2002, i never got to replace the master brake cylinder and booster so i never got to know if that was the fix..

I guess i'll just have to get these and see if that does the trick

*crazy97* · 11-09-2009, 03:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MidN1te

mind you at around this mileage of 110 or so, my old 2002 maxima did the same thing.. changed all the brakes rotors, bled and bedded and everything... Same results...

My cousins 03 maxima has 60k on it now... i remember a couple years ago the brakes were awesome.. but its starting to slowly not be as strong as it used to be even with their new brakes...

On my old 2002, i never got to replace the master brake cylinder and booster so i never got to know if that was the fix..

I guess i'll just have to get these and see if that does the trick

My 03 was the same way when I bought it at 94K. Almost had to stand on the pedal to stop the car. Put Hawk hps on and it stops with amazing ease even after 20K. On tirerack they rate the Hawk semi metallics 4 stars for stopping power and the Hawk Ceramics only got 3 stars for stopping power.. Maybe its the pads you are choosing?

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 03:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by crazy97

My 03 was the same way when I bought it at 94K. Almost had to stand on the pedal to stop the car. Put Hawk hps on and it stops with amazing ease even after 20K. On tirerack they rate the Hawk semi metallics 4 stars for stopping power and the Hawk Ceramics only got 3 stars for stopping power.. Maybe its the pads you are choosing?

that's funny. I've had hawks metallic's, ceramics, stock, other semi-metallics, and finally axxis which has been the best out of all the ones i've ever tried...

the ones i just had on the maxima were semi-metallic and those bit worse.

i mean the thing is.. the bite is there... its biting.. its just the force behind the bite isnt there anymore... the aid and assistance isn't there.

which leads me to believe its the booster.. *shrugs*.. i mean i could be wrong obviously.. but my last maxima was the same..

*unrealii* · 11-09-2009, 04:07 PM

Give the brakes some more time to break in. My brembo slotted/hawk hps setup sucked for the first 500-1000 miles, then suddenly became totally awesome.
Notice how many of them are saying to avoid heavy braking for 400-500 miles:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/....jsp?techid=85

I would still do the bed in proceedure corresponding to your pads.

How long did all of that take you to do? I'm doing the same on the front: lines, calipers, rotors, pads and just lines on the rear, then bleed all old fluid out. I have all the parts, just haven't done it yet.

StenholmEngineering · 11-09-2009, 04:43 PM

just as a lil help make sure the vacuum like that runs to the booster is A) connected/all the way on and B) doesnt have a hole. i forgot to hook one up on a car and it was a bytch to stop...lol

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by unrealii

Give the brakes some more time to break in. My brembo slotted/hawk hps setup sucked for the first 500-1000 miles, then suddenly became totally awesome.
Notice how many of them are saying to avoid heavy braking for 400-500 miles:
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/....jsp?techid=85

I would still do the bed in proceedure corresponding to your pads.

How long did all of that take you to do? I'm doing the same on the front: lines, calipers, rotors, pads and just lines on the rear, then bleed all old fluid out. I have all the parts, just haven't done it yet.

Yea, sometimes TIME actually makes a difference when it comes to stopping power. meaning more miles.. which is true...

i'm giving it some time and miles for now. but yea i've bedded them properly

the whole process maybe took about 45min to an hour? Very easy to do.. ESPECIALLY the bleeding with the speed bleeders... LOVE those things..

*MidN1te* · 11-09-2009, 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StenholmEngineering

just as a lil help make sure the vacuum like that runs to the booster is A) connected/all the way on and B) doesnt have a hole. i forgot to hook one up on a car and it was a bytch to stop...lol

LOL.. yea i'll double check.. but i've looked at the hose before and it was connected and appeared to be in good condition... but yea i can imagine that "oh ****" feeling you get when it doesnt wanna stop hahahaha