RSTB for the win
02-13-2009, 10:31 AM
#1
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Leicester, Ma
Posts: 1,124
RSTB for the win
Well i was hesitant on a RSTB because i read everything states there is no difference. I have read a tiny few saying they can feel a difference. Well i had some availability of metals and such and my father works at a garage so cutting and fabbing was not a problem, so i took a chance to make a RSTB. If it didn't work no skin off my back. I Made brackets to bolt to the rear shock towers out of 3/16 steel. Then i had square tubing measured at 36 inches long. Fabbed everything up, bolted it down and took it for a test ride.
Before i review My susp parts are as follows:
FSTB
RSB
Sprint Springs
Stock shocks and Struts for now.
I set my RSB as stiff as it would let me and to be honest it was great. i thought i couldn't get a better feel. Only problem i had was when going over uneven roads the car seemed to wallow thru.. or rock side to side. Now i now this is partly due to the stock shocks and struts.
The RSB def helped eliminate a lot of this rocking. So i figured ill try the RSTB and see if it does anything.
My hopes weren't high so lets go
The RSTB is a def must. i don't know if the RSTB that others got were junk but i def feel a diff in all areas.
The reason i believe it works is that when the rear encounters uneven roads the rear susp reacts unevenly. When this happens the points where the shocks mount in the rear have a tendency to deflect, or have slight movement in the metal. Having the brackets bolted down and the bar helps eliminate the deflection, making the springs and shocks do what they are made for and to not have the shock mounting points flex and transfer vibrations and movement to the chassis therefor making a smoother, better cornering and handling rearend.
OK so what i found was that going over uneven surfaces feels like i rolled over a pebble. Much more subdued and no more "rocking the boat". Also when taking a corner the car feels more planted, much less body roll. Also i was on the highway and thats where i really noticed it. Lane changing is great. Turn the wheel and the car turns right then.. no lag or body roll. It also seems to make the ride at speeds feel more performance oriented instead of family oriented.
i live in Massachusetts and i can say that these roads are by far worse than anywhere else. With Freezing cold and major snow the roads have frost heaves, potholes that you can swim in and just a bear to drive on.
I love my car again. Even driving in Mass with the [expletive] roads the RSTB makes the car more predictable and fun. Having it corner, handle and ride better than with out it i say without a doubt i love this mod.
I know ppl are gonna say it doesn't do anything but i can attest to it working. Maybe the RSTB they have was junk but mine works great. Wish i didnt wait til now to do it. Go do it and enjoy.
Before i review My susp parts are as follows:
FSTB
RSB
Sprint Springs
Stock shocks and Struts for now.
I set my RSB as stiff as it would let me and to be honest it was great. i thought i couldn't get a better feel. Only problem i had was when going over uneven roads the car seemed to wallow thru.. or rock side to side. Now i now this is partly due to the stock shocks and struts.
The RSB def helped eliminate a lot of this rocking. So i figured ill try the RSTB and see if it does anything.
My hopes weren't high so lets go
The RSTB is a def must. i don't know if the RSTB that others got were junk but i def feel a diff in all areas.
The reason i believe it works is that when the rear encounters uneven roads the rear susp reacts unevenly. When this happens the points where the shocks mount in the rear have a tendency to deflect, or have slight movement in the metal. Having the brackets bolted down and the bar helps eliminate the deflection, making the springs and shocks do what they are made for and to not have the shock mounting points flex and transfer vibrations and movement to the chassis therefor making a smoother, better cornering and handling rearend.
OK so what i found was that going over uneven surfaces feels like i rolled over a pebble. Much more subdued and no more "rocking the boat". Also when taking a corner the car feels more planted, much less body roll. Also i was on the highway and thats where i really noticed it. Lane changing is great. Turn the wheel and the car turns right then.. no lag or body roll. It also seems to make the ride at speeds feel more performance oriented instead of family oriented.
i live in Massachusetts and i can say that these roads are by far worse than anywhere else. With Freezing cold and major snow the roads have frost heaves, potholes that you can swim in and just a bear to drive on.
I love my car again. Even driving in Mass with the [expletive] roads the RSTB makes the car more predictable and fun. Having it corner, handle and ride better than with out it i say without a doubt i love this mod.
I know ppl are gonna say it doesn't do anything but i can attest to it working. Maybe the RSTB they have was junk but mine works great. Wish i didnt wait til now to do it. Go do it and enjoy.
Last edited by SEmy2K2go; 02-16-2009 at 02:21 AM. Reason: Let's keep it clean.
02-13-2009, 10:42 AM
#2
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Leicester, Ma
Posts: 1,124
Also i think it works better than a Stillen or Ebay one is because they are attached by hinges. My FSTB was an Ebay item and i noticed a diff but not like this and that on has a hinge on each side to attach to the brackets letting it have some play. The way i made mine has no hinges and is bolted right to the bracket giving no chance for play. I think not having the hinges make a big diff in it effectiveness.
Last edited by jeff5347; 02-13-2009 at 10:44 AM.
02-13-2009, 10:45 AM
#3
Interesting. I've read the same about the RSTB for our design and how it does not do much. I would invest in one if there were more options than the Stillen ($$$). You're in Massachusetts, eh? Would you be willing to produce one or more? I'd be in for a fair price. I have the RSB / FSTB and Springs/Struts and I think this would finish up the bars before SFCs for me.
P.S. Invest in struts, IMO Illuminas. They give you adjustability and higher strength since you are on Sprint springs. Stock struts won't last long.
P.S. Invest in struts, IMO Illuminas. They give you adjustability and higher strength since you are on Sprint springs. Stock struts won't last long.
02-13-2009, 11:07 AM
#4
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Leicester, Ma
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Yea i gotta get the illuminas. I have heard i should feel a world of difference.
Zero, I could def make one for you. I dont have the availability to cutting edge machines to make my stuff look as visually appealing as say the Blehmco stuff, but i could def make this again. I see your in Malden. I wouldnt do brackets like mine for yours as mine were just cut to fit and arent anything to look at but they do work. I have the cutout i used for mock up on mine but the bracket itself needed some adjusting but it has the basics i need. If ppl were up for it i would def do it. I would like to have someone else such as yourself try it out before i start mass producing them. If your still interested once it gets warmer i could have you come to my house and make one for you and you can be my first guinea pig hahah
As a side not like Zero2sixty i have the FSTB and RSB. I dont know what diff it would make on a max without a FSTB or RSB. With them its awesome.
Zero, I could def make one for you. I dont have the availability to cutting edge machines to make my stuff look as visually appealing as say the Blehmco stuff, but i could def make this again. I see your in Malden. I wouldnt do brackets like mine for yours as mine were just cut to fit and arent anything to look at but they do work. I have the cutout i used for mock up on mine but the bracket itself needed some adjusting but it has the basics i need. If ppl were up for it i would def do it. I would like to have someone else such as yourself try it out before i start mass producing them. If your still interested once it gets warmer i could have you come to my house and make one for you and you can be my first guinea pig hahah
As a side not like Zero2sixty i have the FSTB and RSB. I dont know what diff it would make on a max without a FSTB or RSB. With them its awesome.
02-13-2009, 11:12 AM
#5
02-13-2009, 02:43 PM
#14
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Leicester, Ma
Posts: 1,124
i think its the way its made.
One thats made bad will give the rest a bad rap. Ive seen ones that are made like mine that bolt in and dont have a bolt to go thru to make the bar a hinge.
I love mine. Before i put it in I was thinking theres gonna be no change. I got a mile down the road and said something changed. Once i got up to road and hiway speeds and took corners and hit the same bumps i always hit but without the bumpiness and more stability out of the max i new it was working. It doesnt even make noise either hahaha.
One thats made bad will give the rest a bad rap. Ive seen ones that are made like mine that bolt in and dont have a bolt to go thru to make the bar a hinge.
I love mine. Before i put it in I was thinking theres gonna be no change. I got a mile down the road and said something changed. Once i got up to road and hiway speeds and took corners and hit the same bumps i always hit but without the bumpiness and more stability out of the max i new it was working. It doesnt even make noise either hahaha.
02-13-2009, 02:58 PM
#15
Yea i gotta get the illuminas. I have heard i should feel a world of difference.
Zero, I could def make one for you. I dont have the availability to cutting edge machines to make my stuff look as visually appealing as say the Blehmco stuff, but i could def make this again. I see your in Malden. I wouldnt do brackets like mine for yours as mine were just cut to fit and arent anything to look at but they do work. I have the cutout i used for mock up on mine but the bracket itself needed some adjusting but it has the basics i need. If ppl were up for it i would def do it. I would like to have someone else such as yourself try it out before i start mass producing them. If your still interested once it gets warmer i could have you come to my house and make one for you and you can be my first guinea pig hahah
As a side not like Zero2sixty i have the FSTB and RSB. I dont know what diff it would make on a max without a FSTB or RSB. With them its awesome.
Zero, I could def make one for you. I dont have the availability to cutting edge machines to make my stuff look as visually appealing as say the Blehmco stuff, but i could def make this again. I see your in Malden. I wouldnt do brackets like mine for yours as mine were just cut to fit and arent anything to look at but they do work. I have the cutout i used for mock up on mine but the bracket itself needed some adjusting but it has the basics i need. If ppl were up for it i would def do it. I would like to have someone else such as yourself try it out before i start mass producing them. If your still interested once it gets warmer i could have you come to my house and make one for you and you can be my first guinea pig hahah
As a side not like Zero2sixty i have the FSTB and RSB. I dont know what diff it would make on a max without a FSTB or RSB. With them its awesome.
Notice any oversteer/characteristics after driving it?
02-13-2009, 03:09 PM
#16
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Join Date: Dec 2005
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Not so much oversteer. I didnt feel it to much with the RSB either. It does feel like there is actually more traction. Getting off an off ramp last might i took the corner faster than usual to see if it would oversteer coming off the gas pedal and there wasnt any. ALso i noticed less squeling. It really does feel more planted and doesnt get as upset when hitting uneven pavement. Before it felt jiggly, now it feels like i can take it give me more. It also didnt body roll as much as before.
I think if you did take a corner at much higher speeds you could get some oversteer but i havent taken fast 90 degree turns. Long sweeping corners such as on the hiway or backroads are nice. I dont know how to explain it but it feels like the rubber has better grip. Turn the steering wheel and the car just follows. Zero what is Malden near.
I think if you did take a corner at much higher speeds you could get some oversteer but i havent taken fast 90 degree turns. Long sweeping corners such as on the hiway or backroads are nice. I dont know how to explain it but it feels like the rubber has better grip. Turn the steering wheel and the car just follows. Zero what is Malden near.
02-13-2009, 03:31 PM
#17
Not so much oversteer. I didnt feel it to much with the RSB either. It does feel like there is actually more traction. Getting off an off ramp last might i took the corner faster than usual to see if it would oversteer coming off the gas pedal and there wasnt any. ALso i noticed less squeling. It really does feel more planted and doesnt get as upset when hitting uneven pavement. Before it felt jiggly, now it feels like i can take it give me more. It also didnt body roll as much as before.
I think if you did take a corner at much higher speeds you could get some oversteer but i havent taken fast 90 degree turns. Long sweeping corners such as on the hiway or backroads are nice. I dont know how to explain it but it feels like the rubber has better grip. Turn the steering wheel and the car just follows. Zero what is Malden near.
I think if you did take a corner at much higher speeds you could get some oversteer but i havent taken fast 90 degree turns. Long sweeping corners such as on the hiway or backroads are nice. I dont know how to explain it but it feels like the rubber has better grip. Turn the steering wheel and the car just follows. Zero what is Malden near.
02-13-2009, 04:43 PM
#20
still away, not gonna take it out till march or april but im gonna take it out for a day soon to do a couple things so we should get together, u can test out the ride with illuminas too.
02-13-2009, 06:15 PM
#21
props for doing something on ur own... yeah..i had a stillen RSTB .. and i def felt a difference but i didnt like the feeling.. i felt like it took too much play out of the car and i felt like i was driving an unpredictable box, granted it was paired with illuminas/progress springs/ rsb/ FSTB/ and LTB1and some 245/40's or some chunky tire like that ,.. but idk.. im alot more happy without it.. i think.. lol
02-13-2009, 08:22 PM
#22
RSTB was the very last suspension/chassis mod I put on the car (already had LTB2, SFCs, RSB, bushings, springs, struts, etc etc). I thought it made a slight difference only noticeable on long sweeping turns. I think on a stiffly-sprung car (or at least moderate stiffness) it can make a bit of a difference. On a near-stock suspension though probably not, since there is so much slop already.
All in all....only worthwhile if you already have everything else.
(btw, mine was a Stillen).
All in all....only worthwhile if you already have everything else.
(btw, mine was a Stillen).
02-14-2009, 01:24 PM
#24
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Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Leicester, Ma
Posts: 1,124
Scarface PM when you gonna take it out. PM me like a day before and i can meet up with you
anything i can do that doesnt cost me anything but time ill try. Even if it doesnt work as may have expected. I drove home from work this morning and it was 10 degress. I think the shock fluid was real stiff and the road home wasnt so much bumpy but dips and groves all over. Withthe shocks being real stiff from the cold the car feels STIFF. Not all bad but the rear has work done such as the RSTB and RSB but the front only has the FSTB. Plus i think being on stock shocks is killing me. But the rear feels calm and controlled but the front feels a little loose. I think once i do the illuminas and a ltb2 the car should feel good.
I have spacers on my rears and on certain roads id rub the fenders. But going over these roads now i dont rub.. as much. I attribute this to the RSTB. Going over a speed bump straight on the car reacts like always but take uneven or bumpy and dippy roads the car is real balanced.
Comparasion is when i go to the gym they have a speed bump. i always take it at an angle because its right off the road. Usually the car does that wobble over the SB. Now its like i rolled over a slight crack in the road.
i couldnt be happier.
Oh also another note hahah i keep writing these notes..
When i take a corner.. Say i come to a stop sign and need to go left. When i take that left i can leave harder with out the inside tire spinning so i feel more of a pull out of a corner.
When i take a corner i dont have to stop for such as into my road i take it at about 25 and when i come out of the corner i can feel the car pull much harder due to being able to get to the throttle quicker beacuse i have no traction loss.
anything i can do that doesnt cost me anything but time ill try. Even if it doesnt work as may have expected. I drove home from work this morning and it was 10 degress. I think the shock fluid was real stiff and the road home wasnt so much bumpy but dips and groves all over. Withthe shocks being real stiff from the cold the car feels STIFF. Not all bad but the rear has work done such as the RSTB and RSB but the front only has the FSTB. Plus i think being on stock shocks is killing me. But the rear feels calm and controlled but the front feels a little loose. I think once i do the illuminas and a ltb2 the car should feel good.
I have spacers on my rears and on certain roads id rub the fenders. But going over these roads now i dont rub.. as much. I attribute this to the RSTB. Going over a speed bump straight on the car reacts like always but take uneven or bumpy and dippy roads the car is real balanced.
Comparasion is when i go to the gym they have a speed bump. i always take it at an angle because its right off the road. Usually the car does that wobble over the SB. Now its like i rolled over a slight crack in the road.
i couldnt be happier.
Oh also another note hahah i keep writing these notes..
When i take a corner.. Say i come to a stop sign and need to go left. When i take that left i can leave harder with out the inside tire spinning so i feel more of a pull out of a corner.
When i take a corner i dont have to stop for such as into my road i take it at about 25 and when i come out of the corner i can feel the car pull much harder due to being able to get to the throttle quicker beacuse i have no traction loss.
Last edited by jeff5347; 02-14-2009 at 01:29 PM.
04-12-2011, 05:07 PM
#26
Sure would be nice to remove these huge, black vertical brackets over the rear strut towers. Can these be removed temporarily for easier access to the strut bolts? The 4 bolts will back off, but it takes a strong amount of torque, so I worried about getting them back on properly and tightened them back down on the one I was experimenting with.
These things are bolted here as part of the structural integrity of the rear end, right? (Just a guess.)
Anybody?
These things are bolted here as part of the structural integrity of the rear end, right? (Just a guess.)
Anybody?
04-12-2011, 05:21 PM
#27
I removed mine when I installed my rear struts and spring, and simply didn't bother to put them back on, you will loose two hooks I believe for the trunk cargo net but that is about it ... mine have been off for over two years with no ill effects.
04-12-2011, 05:33 PM
#28
Here. Outlined in red:
Last edited by Rochester; 04-12-2011 at 05:49 PM.
04-12-2011, 06:03 PM
#30
When you work on the rear shocks, do you unbolt these for access to the strut tower bolts, and put them back on when you're done? Or do you just use a swivel socket on your wrench?
The swivel socket and extension is a total PITA, and I lose confidence in getting the torque specs right.
04-12-2011, 06:09 PM
#31
That's the ones I am speaking of John, both of mine are still sitting in a box somewhere in the garage ... just never bothered to remount them
I removed them for just that reason John so I could gain better access to the strut bolts .. suppose given the comment of just what they are there for I should reinstall them.
I removed them for just that reason John so I could gain better access to the strut bolts .. suppose given the comment of just what they are there for I should reinstall them.
Last edited by Ghost_54; 04-12-2011 at 06:15 PM.
04-12-2011, 06:13 PM
#32
Sorry, man. That's not what I started out to do bumping this thread, but if it inspires you to re-install those huge brackets, that seems like a good thing.
Last edited by Rochester; 04-12-2011 at 06:15 PM.
04-12-2011, 06:23 PM
#34
^^ always a good thing when one learns from an older thread, or at the very least opens ones eyes to something they have done wrong ... for that I say thank you for pointing out a flaw in what I did
I am always learning, just have to respect the fantastic knowledge that can be had, all one has to do is become involved .. was a very good bump up John
I am always learning, just have to respect the fantastic knowledge that can be had, all one has to do is become involved .. was a very good bump up John
04-12-2011, 06:24 PM
#35
I honestly didnt know that those brackets could be removed. Or removed "easilly" atleast. I thought about removing them when I was installing my rear coils, but a long wobble extention works just fine for this.
4th gens dont have this by the way just in case you didnt know.
4th gens dont have this by the way just in case you didnt know.
04-12-2011, 06:25 PM
#36
But I persevered... and now my back is killing me. Crawling around in the trunk of a Maxima is a task best left to younger (and smaller) people. However, now that the RSTB is on the car, it's on to stay. And the next time anyone has to mess around there, it will likely be a mechanic; (or the next owner.) But not me.
After installation, I did a little neighborhood highway ramping to check things out. Right away I felt like the back end had less *lift* to it when sweeping into the turns. Being more planted, there was more control. And suspension mods are all about control.
- A dramatic change? No.
- Noticeable? Yes.
- All in my head? Um, maybe.
But I doubt it.
Last edited by Rochester; 04-12-2011 at 06:31 PM.
04-12-2011, 06:29 PM
#37
^^ always a good thing when one learns from an older thread, or at the very least opens ones eyes to something they have done wrong ... for that I say thank you for pointing out a flaw in what I did
I am always learning, just have to respect the fantastic knowledge that can be had, all one has to do is become involved .. was a very good bump up John
I am always learning, just have to respect the fantastic knowledge that can be had, all one has to do is become involved .. was a very good bump up John
You, sir, are always the adult in the room.
04-12-2011, 06:40 PM
#38
That's what I thought. They're seriously beefy.
When you work on the rear shocks, do you unbolt these for access to the strut tower bolts, and put them back on when you're done? Or do you just use a swivel socket on your wrench?
The swivel socket and extension is a total PITA, and I lose confidence in getting the torque specs right.
When you work on the rear shocks, do you unbolt these for access to the strut tower bolts, and put them back on when you're done? Or do you just use a swivel socket on your wrench?
The swivel socket and extension is a total PITA, and I lose confidence in getting the torque specs right.
I use a socket with extension. No removal of these brackets, and no swivel/U-joint necessary. You just need the right sized extension.
And for those that removed the brackets, please reinstall post-haste
The entire metal shroud around the entire rear pass through has to be removed to remove these brackets. So technically you have 3 pieces to reinstall, and a whoole lot of bolts. Impact setting on a screwgun (with a socket attachment and socket) helps tremendously for these.
Last edited by djfrestyl; 04-12-2011 at 06:44 PM.
