Wilwood/fastbrakes install
10-14-2007, 10:25 AM
#1
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Wilwood/fastbrakes install
EDIT: more discussion/review in POST #7...
more later....I have football to watch.
here's a teaser or two
more later....I have football to watch.
here's a teaser or two
Last edited by irish44j; 10-14-2007 at 05:34 PM.
10-14-2007, 05:33 PM
#7
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So, here's the down-low:
As you can see in the pics above, I installed the 4-piston Wilwood kit from Fastbrakes with the 6th gen rotors. Jason (cutler) was around to lend an encouraging word, hand tools, mess with my HDTV, etc
Anyhow, install was easy:
-everything fit perfectly (lines, brackets, hardware, etc)
First test drive was encouraging. Bias initially feels about the same as the z32 setup, BUT when the brakes are pushed harder the Wilwoods really clamp down and if I didn't have a seatbelt on, I would have been through the windshield..
In short, the Wilwoods really have far superior stopping power to the z32 setup - no question about it, it was very noticeable.
Braking from high speeds was solid and smooth, with no shimmy whatsoever. Even and secure.
(I will note that i have Hawk HPS pads on both setups).
NOW, the problem:
After warming up a bit, after the pads had been bedded in (yes, I did it right...),the brakes began making a HORRIBLE SCREECHING noise whenever pressed 50% or harder....
The harder I pressed them, the louder the noise.
Took everything back apart....inspected - no rubbing on the caliper, I'm sure of that.
Used the usual slider grease, anti-squeal crap, etc.
Cliffs: I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, and I have alot of experience with setting up brakes.
The result: Noise would not go away. Disassembled a couple more times, trying different ideas, rechecking everything, rebleeding, etc.
Noise still there. And I don't mean a squeak. It sunds like an 18-wheeler with overheating brakes. If I hit the brakes, people 2 blocks away were turnin their heads.
WTF?
Anyhow, I have waaaaaay too much to do in the next few months with the new house, baby on the way, alot of leaves to rake, and busy at work. And frankly I'm a bit tired of messing with this f---ing car at the moment.
So, I'm sorry to tell you guys that in the last 2 hours, I pulled the entire kit off and reinstalled the z32 setup...which after a long test-drive, is silent, smooth, and still brakes pretty damn good (though nowhere near as good as the Wilwoods).
Anyhow, winter's coming up and I have other projects to do (including the GT6), so I'm going to wait until spring to give this another go with the Wilwood setup. In the meantime, I'll touch base with Fastbrakes and Wilwood and try to figure out what the problem is, and will keep you guys up to date as to what I find out.
So, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the good news is that the braking power of this kit is absolutely SICK. Hopefully I'll figure out the noise problem in the spring
*to add insult to injury, during the 2nd test-drive the car threw an SES for bad coil cylinder 4
and was misfiring occasionally.
Maybe it's time for a Honda
As you can see in the pics above, I installed the 4-piston Wilwood kit from Fastbrakes with the 6th gen rotors. Jason (cutler) was around to lend an encouraging word, hand tools, mess with my HDTV, etc
Anyhow, install was easy:
-everything fit perfectly (lines, brackets, hardware, etc)
First test drive was encouraging. Bias initially feels about the same as the z32 setup, BUT when the brakes are pushed harder the Wilwoods really clamp down and if I didn't have a seatbelt on, I would have been through the windshield..
In short, the Wilwoods really have far superior stopping power to the z32 setup - no question about it, it was very noticeable.
Braking from high speeds was solid and smooth, with no shimmy whatsoever. Even and secure.
(I will note that i have Hawk HPS pads on both setups).
NOW, the problem:
After warming up a bit, after the pads had been bedded in (yes, I did it right...),the brakes began making a HORRIBLE SCREECHING noise whenever pressed 50% or harder....
The harder I pressed them, the louder the noise.
Took everything back apart....inspected - no rubbing on the caliper, I'm sure of that.
Used the usual slider grease, anti-squeal crap, etc.
Cliffs: I didn't see anything out of the ordinary, and I have alot of experience with setting up brakes.
The result: Noise would not go away. Disassembled a couple more times, trying different ideas, rechecking everything, rebleeding, etc.
Noise still there. And I don't mean a squeak. It sunds like an 18-wheeler with overheating brakes. If I hit the brakes, people 2 blocks away were turnin their heads.
WTF?
Anyhow, I have waaaaaay too much to do in the next few months with the new house, baby on the way, alot of leaves to rake, and busy at work. And frankly I'm a bit tired of messing with this f---ing car at the moment.
So, I'm sorry to tell you guys that in the last 2 hours, I pulled the entire kit off and reinstalled the z32 setup...which after a long test-drive, is silent, smooth, and still brakes pretty damn good (though nowhere near as good as the Wilwoods).
Anyhow, winter's coming up and I have other projects to do (including the GT6), so I'm going to wait until spring to give this another go with the Wilwood setup. In the meantime, I'll touch base with Fastbrakes and Wilwood and try to figure out what the problem is, and will keep you guys up to date as to what I find out.
So, sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but the good news is that the braking power of this kit is absolutely SICK. Hopefully I'll figure out the noise problem in the spring
*to add insult to injury, during the 2nd test-drive the car threw an SES for bad coil cylinder 4
and was misfiring occasionally.Maybe it's time for a Honda
10-14-2007, 06:12 PM
#13
10-14-2007, 06:12 PM
#14
10-14-2007, 07:21 PM
#17
Maybe it's from the pads? Other members with original Wilwood pads don't seem to have the noise issues. This sound issue you have described is almost identical with the Axxis Ultimates I used to run.
10-14-2007, 07:33 PM
#18
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It could be, sure....but I'm not buying another set of pads just to find out.
I don't see why the Hawk HPS in my z32s would be any different from the Hawk HPS in the Wilwoods in terms of noise
I've been using that pad for years on several setups on several cars and nary a problem...
10-14-2007, 07:39 PM
#20
10-14-2007, 07:55 PM
#23
http://fastbrakes.com/shop/product_i...roducts_id=844
or
http://fastbrakes.com/shop/product_i...roducts_id=843
or
http://fastbrakes.com/shop/product_i...roducts_id=843
Last edited by redmaxpa007; 10-14-2007 at 07:57 PM.
10-14-2007, 08:13 PM
#25
going to make a wild guess and say it's simply the pads vibrating.. mine would do that when i used veyr aggressive pads, but not on streetable pads.
If you have a different pad compound, I'd give them a shot. I'm EXTREMELY happy with Ferodo DS2500 on my superlites. they're around $100 a set and will last years- even with track use.
Also... the big difference in braking power you're feeling is the larger pistons up front. the Z32 calipers use 1.59" pistons. the Superlite calipers supplied by fastbrakes use 1.75" pistons. That's a 21% increase in clamping force just from the size of the pistons. it has nothing to do with the caliper itself or the pad compound (since the compounds are the same).
If you have a different pad compound, I'd give them a shot. I'm EXTREMELY happy with Ferodo DS2500 on my superlites. they're around $100 a set and will last years- even with track use.
Also... the big difference in braking power you're feeling is the larger pistons up front. the Z32 calipers use 1.59" pistons. the Superlite calipers supplied by fastbrakes use 1.75" pistons. That's a 21% increase in clamping force just from the size of the pistons. it has nothing to do with the caliper itself or the pad compound (since the compounds are the same).
10-14-2007, 08:15 PM
#26
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going to make a wild guess and say it's simply the pads vibrating.. mine would do that when i used veyr aggressive pads, but not on streetable pads.
If you have a different pad compound, I'd give them a shot. I'm EXTREMELY happy with Ferodo DS2500 on my superlites. they're around $100 a set and will last years- even with track use.
Also... the big difference in braking power you're feeling is the larger pistons up front. the Z32 calipers use 1.59" pistons. the Superlite calipers supplied by fastbrakes use 1.75" pistons. That's a 21% increase in clamping force just from the size of the pistons. it has nothing to do with the caliper itself or the pad compound (since the compounds are the same).
If you have a different pad compound, I'd give them a shot. I'm EXTREMELY happy with Ferodo DS2500 on my superlites. they're around $100 a set and will last years- even with track use.
Also... the big difference in braking power you're feeling is the larger pistons up front. the Z32 calipers use 1.59" pistons. the Superlite calipers supplied by fastbrakes use 1.75" pistons. That's a 21% increase in clamping force just from the size of the pistons. it has nothing to do with the caliper itself or the pad compound (since the compounds are the same).
I still don't know what a street pad like the Hawks would have this issue though....
10-14-2007, 08:59 PM
#27
hmmmm...
I run the 1.62" as well and had to crank down the rear brakes to keep them from locking up before the fronts. at least it gave me an excuse to install a bias adjuster ****.
the squeal has me stupmed too. I think you're just bad with brake installs.
I run the 1.62" as well and had to crank down the rear brakes to keep them from locking up before the fronts. at least it gave me an excuse to install a bias adjuster ****.
the squeal has me stupmed too. I think you're just bad with brake installs.
10-15-2007, 12:09 PM
#28
I got the same setup waiting for my nismo rims to come in to complete the install. Same pads too but drilled slotted rotors. I expect my set to go on in about 1-2 weeks and will update you guys then.
10-15-2007, 01:44 PM
#32
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10-15-2007, 01:45 PM
#33
10-15-2007, 02:33 PM
#35
This noise you speak of is indeed a mystery. As you know, Ptatohed and I just installed Wilwood calipers with new Hawk Pads on his car and he doesn't have any noises at all. So, I would think it's not the pads.
Did you start with new rotors as well? If not, did you have the used ones turned first? This piggybacks what Matt said about the pads vibrating. Uneven rotor=pads vibrating?
Also, just out of curiosity, why are you experiencing brake bias on your 5th gen and Ptatohed reported no brake bias on his 4th gen? I was under the impression you guys are using the same Wilwood caliper. Yes? No? Maybe so?
Did you start with new rotors as well? If not, did you have the used ones turned first? This piggybacks what Matt said about the pads vibrating. Uneven rotor=pads vibrating?
Also, just out of curiosity, why are you experiencing brake bias on your 5th gen and Ptatohed reported no brake bias on his 4th gen? I was under the impression you guys are using the same Wilwood caliper. Yes? No? Maybe so?
10-15-2007, 04:56 PM
#36
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You have yet to show any reason why the 1.62 "are not the right size" since everyone here using them seems to like them, as do I. I'm not saying the 1.38s won't work fine as well, but I prefer slightly more front bias for my driving purposes.
You're free you your opinions, but to say that the 1.62 is "not the right size" is a matter of personal preference, not fact.
This noise you speak of is indeed a mystery. As you know, Ptatohed and I just installed Wilwood calipers with new Hawk Pads on his car and he doesn't have any noises at all. So, I would think it's not the pads.
Did you start with new rotors as well? If not, did you have the used ones turned first? This piggybacks what Matt said about the pads vibrating. Uneven rotor=pads vibrating?
Did you start with new rotors as well? If not, did you have the used ones turned first? This piggybacks what Matt said about the pads vibrating. Uneven rotor=pads vibrating?
Where did I say I had a bias problem? I think they're just fine in terms of bias. I just said that at the end of pedal compression, they have better clamping than the z32 setup, which has great initial bite but could be better when coming to the brink of lockup.
Pretty sure we have the same calipers.
10-15-2007, 04:58 PM
#37
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there are all kinds of brake setups available. None of them is "right" or "wrong," and the kind of performance each provides differ, for sure. But it's a matter of preference as to how any individual driver wants the braking system to perform. I autocross and drive very hard on the street. I also have a different suspension setup than other people here. The kind of brake performance/balance I want is not necessarily what someone who does alot of highway driving on (for example) stock suspension would want.....
10-15-2007, 07:05 PM
#38
there are all kinds of brake setups available. None of them is "right" or "wrong," and the kind of performance each provides differ, for sure. But it's a matter of preference as to how any individual driver wants the braking system to perform. I autocross and drive very hard on the street. I also have a different suspension setup than other people here. The kind of brake performance/balance I want is not necessarily what someone who does alot of highway driving on (for example) stock suspension would want.....
Oh no I didn't mean it that way. I don't do autocross but your driving habits seem very similar. I bought the same exact setup you just got and you got me scratching my head. It won't be until about 2 weeks from now until they go on so I won't know for sure.
My brother has the 6-pistons with 13.6" rotors kit and the braking is off this planet. I step too hard and my glasses fly off kind of braking. I get back into my car and it feels like I have no brakes. I am not disputing that this system is bad or weak or inadequate. After we installed the kit for my brother ($1600) I was sold instantly when we left the shop. It was the mula that held me back. Now, I still don't want to spend $1500-1600 for brake upgrade so I bought the same $600 setup you did wit same exact hawk pads (my brother's setup has Wilwood 10 Street Pads). I just pray the noise issue is not going to happen to me and at the same time I wonder what caused yours so that we can have it corrected if it does appear.
Good luck.
10-15-2007, 08:22 PM
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Oh no I didn't mean it that way. I don't do autocross but your driving habits seem very similar. I bought the same exact setup you just got and you got me scratching my head. It won't be until about 2 weeks from now until they go on so I won't know for sure.
My brother has the 6-pistons with 13.6" rotors kit and the braking is off this planet. I step too hard and my glasses fly off kind of braking. I get back into my car and it feels like I have no brakes. I am not disputing that this system is bad or weak or inadequate. After we installed the kit for my brother ($1600) I was sold instantly when we left the shop. It was the mula that held me back. Now, I still don't want to spend $1500-1600 for brake upgrade so I bought the same $600 setup you did wit same exact hawk pads (my brother's setup has Wilwood 10 Street Pads). I just pray the noise issue is not going to happen to me and at the same time I wonder what caused yours so that we can have it corrected if it does appear.
Good luck.
My brother has the 6-pistons with 13.6" rotors kit and the braking is off this planet. I step too hard and my glasses fly off kind of braking. I get back into my car and it feels like I have no brakes. I am not disputing that this system is bad or weak or inadequate. After we installed the kit for my brother ($1600) I was sold instantly when we left the shop. It was the mula that held me back. Now, I still don't want to spend $1500-1600 for brake upgrade so I bought the same $600 setup you did wit same exact hawk pads (my brother's setup has Wilwood 10 Street Pads). I just pray the noise issue is not going to happen to me and at the same time I wonder what caused yours so that we can have it corrected if it does appear.
Good luck.
right on.
since I'm going to hold off until the spring (so I don't have to worry about all the winter mess doing anything naughty to my brakes), I'll have time to get my 2-pc blehm/coleman rotors resurfaced and get the pads burnished. I have a feeling that will get rid of the noise, as it is definitely related to the pad/rotor contact - I am sure of that now......