MAXinNH

I was going to post this in the other thread I had going, but because of the interest shown here in the group, I thought it warranted a thread of its own...

I have a 2000 Fed-Spec SE 5 sp with 28k miles on it. I wanted to see the effect of each mod as they went on the car. We ran a Baseline Dyno on the un-modded car, then another dyno after each mod was added in the order below.
Temps during the Dyno was about 80 and humid.

I realized a 21.1 HP gain at the wheels from the below mods.
Surprisingly, just the simple addition of the Stillen Hi-Flow alone yielded a 8.3hp gain at the wheels.

1) Stillen Hi-Flow Intake
2) Unorthadox UDP
3) Stillen Y Pipe

Dyno HP (at the wheels)results:

Stock = 177.3hp
- Add Stillen Hi-FLow Intake = 185.6hp!
- Hi-Flow + UDP = 188.1hp
- Hi Flow + UDP + Y-Pipe = 198.4hp Torque = 203.8

I can feel a significant difference. The Y-Pipe with the stock exhaust is only marginally noticable. Its hardley louder than stock, but now has a low grumble. Full throttle
sound is significantly louder and muscular in nature, but most of the sound is generated from the intake.

One other noteworthy point. After the 3 mods and dyno, we took the stock muffler off and Dyno'd again. NO DIFFERENCE.
The biggest restriction on the stock exhaust is the intermediate pipe. It is compressed almost in half to accomodate a hanger mount. It has to go.....

Paul

The New CLIMAX

iTrader: (1)

Very nice, thanks for the mod to dyno comparison

Ironlord

Thanks a lot for some info. Now, can we expect the gains per each mod to be less for an auto? And also, I was suprised at your baseline dyno. I thought 5spd base'd higher than that. I was expecting an auto like min to base at mid 170 or or so. But, 8 for still intake, 3 for UDP, and 10 for ypipe. not bad.

Max_Gator

After I did my dyno - way back when - with mods, Madmax2k and I detached the exhaust AFTER THE CAT. There was no improvement.

At the time we speculated that replacing anything behind the cat would make no difference (that's prolly why stealin makes no b-pipe for the 2ks). I still think that's the case - although there has been a good amount of debate in this forum.

Hopefully, I'll have my UDP installed soon to see what kind of difference it makes on my car.

Enjoy the mods - completely changes the car!!!

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

those are some nice gains

you are probably pushing around 240 or 245 hp at the crank..... not bad at all thanks for the results

[maxi-overdose]

iTrader: (3)

thank u thank u

Dave B

Those are really hp good numbers, however the 204fwtq is really hard to swallow. I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, but that is well over 10fwtq more than any other 5th gen ever tested with nearly the same mods. Something just doesn't seem right. When you look at your dyno graphs, make sure you see that they were SAE corrected. It should say that somewhere on the dyno.

Please take that car to the track and see what it will do.

Dave

irvine78

iTrader: (2)

hmmm...when i had only Stillen Hi-flow intake and a y-pipe, mine was 198.7 to the wheels...without the UDP....
i wonder if the UDP ever makes any difference....
i still haven't had my car dynoed since my GReddy, but i know i gained more at the top end...(drag strip..)
and yeah, his torque is unusually high...mine was around 180-190lbs/ft.

MAXinNH

Attached is the Dyno graph showing the hp and torque curves after the 3 mods...

Paul

PhatGuy

Being in NH and Dynoed at Martel Racing I assume Avalon did some work on your car? Paul seems like a good guy. If you have been dealing with him what mod does he suggest now you have the hi-flow/y-pipe/udp?

bramirez

It would be really great if you take your car to the track or test it with a G-Tech. Post your average 0-60 & 1/4 mile times.

Thanks for the info.

Y2KevSE

iTrader: (13)

Good breakdown in hp's. I wonder what the hp would've been if you stuck the y pipe on first.

Max_Gator

I was thinking that too. I'd bet it would be reversed as to the amount of hp. I put both mine on at the same time and got 13-14hp.

Maxx-s-ter

pretty good, I think that you're making more power throughout the power band than most of us are, because of the UDP, looking at your dyno you make way more power in the mid-section than most other dynos I've seen but about the same top end. Which is good for you that means more usable power and probably you are making about 234 Hp at the crank ( 15% loss)

your peak TQ is about at 3700 RPM wich translates to 143 hp@3700RPM, very likely.

Kevin Wong

I have a 4th gen with very similar mods. I have the UDP, intake, Stillen Y-pipe, Courtesy B-pipe, and 5th gen muffler. Off the bat, I noticed a big difference with the exhaust mods. I had the intake and UDP for a while, but adding the y-pipe made a significant difference. Adding the b-pipe and 5th gen muffler made gains as significant as my y-pipe (to my surprise). I've definitely gained throughout the powerband. I can't wait to dyno.

Ironlord

Actually though, what suprised me was that he actually had a 20% loss (real close anyway) with his 5spd. stock engine is 222 and he was getting 177 at the wheels. So, after his mods and assuming the 20% loss will hold true...he'd have 247.5 hp at the crank. No big difference, wheel is what counts...i was just bored and did some math...

Wow, i'm a loser...

madmax2k

If I remember right John, there was a difference, but it was very small. I think it was 3 hp. But, youd be deaf after after driving 5 minutes in that exhaust less car.

Yeah, I think anything past the Y-pipe is a waste of money and wont net much of a gain. Itll just sound different.

madmax2k

I cant download the plot for some reason, so I cant see how it looks. But, Id have to agree that the torque number is alot higher than any other dyno Ive yet seen on a 5th gen Max. That doesnt mean its not correct, its just, as said above, about 10 ft lb higher than anyone elses including mine (My dyno is about par for the course as far as 5th gens go with these mods)

That being said, the power figure is a bit lower than expected. It seems that most 5th gens with the mods you have will dyno somewhere around 205 peak wheel hp give or take a hp or two. But, as I write this I realize that your baseline dyno was at 177 wheel hp. This is extrememly low. It should be in the low 190's.

Can someone convert the dyno plot to a jpg and post it here?

Max_Gator

You might be right - for some reason I thought it was like 1 hp. I'll have to dig up my dyno plots.

Avalon Racing

All parts come from us as does the engineering. Jeff is our lead tech and the one who does all our race fabrication. We also do a lot of "super" tuning on every car. Jeff and I always have a few tricks up oyur sleeves

He can be reached @ jeff@avalonracing.net

Regards

MajesticMax

I might be wrong, but my take is that the 204 torque is due to the UDP. The only mod that could boost the torque that much would be the UDP. Has anyone else with the same mods, intake, y-pipe, and UDP done a dyno that we can compare to?

Just curious...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Paul,

Would you mind SHARING some "super-tuning" tips/tricks you and Jeff have up your sleeves?

Thanks.

Avalon Racing

Having a dyno full time helps first of all. Besides timing, Air Fuel rations ( assuming the car can be adjusted ) etc etc - there is some tweaking that can be done in the throttle bodies of Nissan's. Traditionally they are set to only open to approx 89%. By changing how far they open, will allow the car to really run at wide open throttle.

On most cars over 1 year old we run themn through a full de-carb process. This requires that we drill a hole in the throttle body (s) to allow use to hook up the device. This alone has added 5 h/p to a lot of older cars and much better throttle response and idle. This really cleans out all the gung and allows the engine to breath.

We did both the above items on a few Z's duri8ng a dyno day we had for the local club andf each car on average gained 10 h/p +/- at the wheels.

Feel free to e-mail Jeff @ jeff@avalonracing.net for any specific questions you might have.

Regards

madmax2k

But the UDP should boost torque across the board in a fairly linear fashion,not just in the midrange.

Can someone convert the dyno file to a jpg and post it here? I still cant download the dyno for some reason.

Sonic

Excellent investigative job. I really appreciate people that take the time to see if performance mods actually work.

madmax2k

OK! I was finally able to DL the dyno file!

I see now why the results are as they are. You obviously did the run in 4th gear. I also tried this on my car when I was just fooling around on the dyno. For some reason, in 4th gear (on my car), the peak torque value posts HIGHER than in 4th, but the peak power comes in LOWER. I could never figure this out (and didnt give it much thought, to be honest). On a stock car, tests in 4th gear on the dyno give values that simply dont make sense with the factory 222 hp crank rating nor quarter mile trap speed vs. weight calculations.

If you restest your car in 3rd gear, Im sure your peak power value will come up about 6-8 hp, maybe even a bit more.

Also, when doing dyno runs, make sure the smoothing of the plots is not overly done. It can be set anywhere from s=1 to s=5. s=1 will give very little smoothing while s=5 will make the plots look very linear.

MAXinNH

I converted my Dyno plot from .bpm to .jpg for those that
were having difficulty... Its attached below.

P

MAXinNH

Well, after driving my newly modified MAX fo rth epast 3 weeks, all I can say is WOW!

1st gear spins up sooooo fast. The pull over 4000rpm is incredible.

It feels like a different car.

I ordered a G-Tech, and it should be delivered today or tomorrow. Looking forward to seeing what it says..

P

Paul6speed

Many UDP dynos I've seen show only 1-2 HP gain.

Max_Gator

Were they posted here? I've never seen any 5th gen dynos that isolate udp. However, that wouldn't surprise me as my UDP on the street appeared to make little/no difference. The dyno showed that I lost power but that now appears to be a questionable result after "real world" testing.

MAXinNH

My Dyno (posted earlier in this thread) showed almost a 3hp
gain at the wheels from the UDP. Torque curve is also much flatter...

P

Paul6speed

Actually I'm throwing in other car dynos too. The SHO V8 guys are seeing about 1-2 HP gain.

Paul6speed

IMHO, I don't think the UDP mod is worth the $$. I think CAI and Y pipe are the biggest bangs for the buck. Nitrous is pretty good too.

Max_Gator

I thought your dyno was of all three mods together. Can you post the pre-udp dyno for comparison? I'm particularly interested in knowing if you got gains all the way across the power band.

Right now, I'm trying to figure out whether my dyno results with udp are messed up and whether I actually gained anything from the addition of the udp.

ohboiya

iTrader: (3)

would a fed spec with same mods dyno higher?

Max_Gator

There's a controversy regarding that and another thread around discussing it. I think there is a difference in mid-range torque but probably not a lot else.

zgrm100

is stillen hi-flow, same as the jw intake?

Ironlord

I always thought the udp was more for low-end gains and basically just for more area under the curve rather than peak power... It's prolly gonna be the one mod i do before my warranty is up cuz its so hard to notice and might help lower my 2.36 60'.....

Max_Gator

That's just it - according to the dyno I got no gains at all below 5100 rpms and lost power above.

I'll be redynoing because the dyno result is suspect.

MAXinNH

Max_Gator,
You are right, the Dyno plot I posted showed my plot after all 3 mods. I should be able to get my plots that show
Hi-flow vs Hi flow +UDP. That should help show where the power gains are from the UDP...

P