DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

This thread is oriented towards making our Maximas faster in the corners, more fun to drive, and more comfortable during city driving.

Please note, this thread is NOT intended for discussing prices or retailers of suspension products.

Note: Please visit Suspensions and Brakes section if you are looking for more advanced handling information.

I'll start off by posting a list of documents/threads with information that's essential to know when modifying suspension:

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LINK TO THE OFFICIAL COILOVER THREAD: http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=331742

Reviews of different suspension setups by maxima.org members:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=344309

Spring popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205370

Shock popularity thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=205365

Springs/shocks information that is usually not advertised:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...6&postcount=94

How rear sway bar effects handling on a Maxima:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=308884

Why Maxima will never handle as well as BMW (or how to make Maxima handle better without decreasing ride quality) http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...29&postcount=3

If COMFORT were your sole goal:
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=359419

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Basic but very useful guide to choosing springs and shocks:
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html

This website describes almost every suspension mod:
http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaHandling
NOTE: while this website in indeed very helpful, information provided there can be edited by any visitor, thus it can not be trusted 100%

///////////////////////////////////////////////

Suspension secrets -part 1 (modifying & tuning FWD vehicles)
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/art...sp_01_0202.pdf

Making It Stick Part 1
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...t_1/index.html

How sway bars work, and why people use them
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm

Handling Tuning Table
http://turnfast.com/tech_handling/ha...ingtable.shtml

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

FRIGGEN sweet info!. Thats what I thought. I thought the H-techs were pretty stiff even though people have commented they ride really well. That enforces my belief that the H-techs may be the best choice for what I'm lookin for.

But H&R doesnt seem to release their spring rates so they could be an even better choice

02theMax

iTrader: (2)

Good info... this is going to help me to make a better choice regarding strut/spring setup. Thanks!

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Nice work, ya beat me to it... STICKY this bish...

Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....

shurik

iTrader: (6)

I don't think it's that accurate. They took a picture from Housecor's site and placed it for H&R drop, while it's realy progress, and that's a big difference.


So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

There is lots of conflicting info on this board though. What I originally thought was that H&R was the best for comfort. I was originally gonna go with the H&R but than heard I would probably get a little better handling and stiffer ride from H-Techs (as well as a much more even drop) but one of the websites you listed said H&Rs would have better handling than H-Techs becauase of their superior R&D.

And the site recommended Koni Yellows but it seems like no one on this board runs those struts. It seems like Iluminas are by far the most popular.

Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.

yofmatt

that sucks H&R doesn't release theirs. I found them on Zilvia.net for my S13, there's gotta be someone who has them for the Max.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

Well, perhaps I have to finish the job… hopefully there will be an update tomorrow.

BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.

how exactly should I "sticky" this?

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

The AGXs are the same for 4th and 5th Gens except for how they are mounted. I guess we just need that info for the Illuminas.

Send Tim (semy2k2go) a PM to see what he thinks; if it is Sticky worthy or not, and if it is, he will add it to the FAQs.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.

It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.

You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.

I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I can only guarantee the accuracy of my information (what ever is posted directly in my post) but people seem to use those websites pretty often and I haven't seen anyone complaining about the wrong information posted there.

crispykid717

iTrader: (7)

Good info in this thread. It should definately be stickied.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

This is why we should get a few cars together with different suspension setups. This would allow everyone to ride in others cars to see if they like the feel of that setup. That would really be the only way someone could make up their mind for themselves

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

You mean an organized event? You could post in your local forums to organize a local meet for that, I'm sure people would find it useful.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

BTW Progress has had some great sucess with Hondas/acuras, so I am curious to hear what the outcome of your comparison is.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Yeah an organized event but there doesnt seem to be a whole ton of org members around the New England area. Hell my house would even be a perfect place to meet. I live lirerally next to a public beach, I meen I can lean out my window right now and spit in the beach parking lot. So there would be plenty of parking for everyone.

CCS2k1Max

iTrader: (2)

IWNTMORPH posted the rates a while back, but I am yet to find out what the OEM rates are. I have estimates, but it would be nice to have a baseline to start with.

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=276

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

on OEM rates, I've been trying to find those out.

I'm not sure the TEIN High-Techs are progressive...I have them and they ride pretty stiff in my opinion. I think progressive springs would be softer on little bumps.

The front don't look progressive to me:


The rear look progressive, maybe:


I assumed that because TEIN only gives one rate for the front and one for the rear that they were NOT progressive but please correct me if I'm wrong.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I still think that H-techs are progressive because 180 lbs/in is just too stiff for constant rate. Everyone knows that Eibachs are relatively stiff springs but their initial rate is only 139 and the secondary rate is 188 which is only 8 lbs/in stiffer than known rate of H-techs.

I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.

BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.

sciff5

iTrader: (1)

Arent springs measured in lbs/in. Couldent we compress a stock spring, see how much force it takes to compress it and than divide that by the amount of inches it moves from uncompressed to full compression?

I am just guessing here

Also from what everyone has said H-techs are progressive

BTW Vquick how does your max handle and have you tried any other suspension setups to compare to the H-techs?
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them

VQuick

iTrader: (17)

They are fine. I think struts matter more than springs (definitley get Illuminas or Koni Yellows, I'd stay away from AGX or anything cheaper) and springs are also cheaper than struts and easier to come by used if you don't like what you get. I picked the High-Techs over H&Rs or Eibachs because the advertised drop was better for manny tranny (I think it was 1.6 F 1.2 R) because I didn't want too much front wheelgap. I'm fairly happy with the drop, although at this point I'm thinking of coilovers for a much lower drop. The TEINs are very high quality springs and unlike most springs they come with the plastic coilgards preinstalled. However, I've not really ridden in a lot of Maxes with different spring setups so I can't compare for you. The "luxury" High-Techs are definitely stiffer than stock SE springs, of course.

yofmatt

btw, you can convert KG/MM into lbs/in by multiplying by 55.8. So 4.5 kg/mm*55.8 = 251.1 lbs/in, and 251 lbs/in divided by 55.8 is 4.5.

So for Tein H: 178.56 lbs/in front/ 284.58 lbs/in rear
Tein S: 200.88 lbs/in front; 267.84 lbs/in rear

yofmatt

Why are people saying the Tein H rides better than the Tein S? It would only ride better in the front, as the springrates are softer than Tein S in the front, but the rear is stiffer. I'm sure the back seat passengers would disagree.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Its probably because of the drop and not the spring rates. The S-techs drop the rear over half an inch more than the H-techs. With the limited suspension travel that we have in the rear, you either need to get really stiff struts (or strut settings) or you'd be bottoming out a lot and the ride will be really bouncy with underdampened struts.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I just called Tokico and the guy on the phone told me that they do not give out this information. Yesterday, that same person was quite friendly and told me everything I asked, so I assume that this info is indeed not available for public.

claudiusmaximas

thats a lil weird anyway, so illuminas would be the best match for h-techs? the h-techs are not as noticeable comfort-wise compared to stock (IMO) but of course theres better handling. the drop is good enough for me

MacAlert

iTrader: (1)

Ok, dumb question:
Higher the spring rate, stiffer the spring?

yofmatt

yup, but that's not the only thing that affects ride quality.

max929

iTrader: (3)

Wait a second, I thought springs more or less affected long term responses like body roll and accelerating/decelerating weight distribution and Shock/struts effect quick or short term responses like bumps.

M1RAG3

is anyone riding "Maxspeed" springs (drop 1.4 f / 1.3r ) on their 5th Gen?

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Yes.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=281194

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=390183

http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html

Please don't ***** this thread and please read around some before posting.

shurik

iTrader: (6)

So by looking at the chart the PROGRESS springs are the softest in the front from the rest. Would that be correct? Some people say that the progress drop is too bumpy though. Can anybody explain this? Anyone?
And did anybody find out OEM spring rates?

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I can think of two possibilities:

One, is that this rate is not sufficient enough for the car to avoid hitting bumpstops on every other pothole.

Another possibility is that initial spring rate (which we don't know) is actually too stiff for a comfortable ride.

Hopefully someone with Progress will be able to tell us the real cause.

shurik

iTrader: (6)

Did some of you guys who did Eibach vs. H&R springs comperison, notice that the front H&R springs are a whole 1 inch shorter then the Eibachs front springs (when you compare them side by side). That is so weird, because H&Rs would still be higher in the front then the Eibachs when they are actually on the car, and H&Rs are more comfortable for some reason. And still the front won't drop to the proper hight it should, even if their front spring rate # is supposedly lower.
I think maybe that's why they're not providing the rates for us, because theres something with their springs that they don't want other manufacturers to know.
Does anyone know what I mean...?

M1RAG3

there is no need to me puppetmaster. nonetheless thanks for the links much appreciated.

shurik

iTrader: (6)

I think that's pretty interesting thing to consider.

DrKlop

iTrader: (3)

I don't think they are hiding anything. If other manufactures wanted to find out the specs of H&Rs they can easily do that by simply testing them. They can't hide anything from pros, they can only prevent us (consumers) from knowing it. It's probably just their stupid marketing policy.

Puppetmaster

iTrader: (48)

Progress springs are soft and can be bouncy. I used to think that it was my HP struts that were the issue, but I realize now after playing around with the Illumina settings that the springs are indeed soft. I was under the impression that I need higher Illumina settings for them because of the drop, and used various combinations of settings 3-4. Loved the handling, but the ride was a tad harsh, obviously. I tried 2F 3R and it rides awesome now. Despite what I've said in the past, setting 2-3 dampers these springs sufficiently and provides a really nice ride. And yes, you will bottom out if you hit any large bumps because these springs are soft and low.

This may be my opinion, but the fact that I was able to use the different Illumina settings to figure this out gives me a somewhat solid basis for my conclusions. If y'all have any specific questions, post em or PM me because this is all I have time for now.

StAtiXz6

iTrader: (4)

anyone know anything about Sprint Springs?

irish44j

iTrader: (38)

Sprint = stiff and low, IIRC.