5th Gen Suspension Thread

[DrKlop]

This thread is oriented towards making our Maximas faster in the corners, more fun to drive, and more comfortable during city driving.

Please note, this thread is NOT intended for discussing prices or retailers of suspension products.

Note: Please visit Suspensions and Brakes section if you are looking for more advanced handling information.

I'll start off by posting a list of documents/threads with information that's essential to know when modifying suspension:

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LINK TO THE OFFICIAL COILOVER THREAD: Official Coilover Thread!! For everyones benefit!

Reviews of different suspension setups by maxima.org members:
Need a favor from EVERYONE with lowering springs

Spring popularity thread:
What springs are you running on your Max??

Shock popularity thread:
**The most popular aftermarket strut poll**

Springs/shocks information that is usually not advertised:
http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...6&postcount=94

How rear sway bar effects handling on a Maxima:
RSB Installed On Lowered Max

Why Maxima will never handle as well as BMW (or how to make Maxima handle better without decreasing ride quality) http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...29&postcount=3

If COMFORT were your sole goal:
If COMFORT were your sole goal...what springs/struts/other would you use?

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Basic but very useful guide to choosing springs and shocks:
http://www.innerbean.com/housecor/sp..._decision.html

This website describes almost every suspension mod:
http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?MaximaHandling
NOTE: while this website in indeed very helpful, information provided there can be edited by any visitor, thus it can not be trusted 100%

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Suspension secrets -part 1 (modifying & tuning FWD vehicles)
http://www.whiteline.com.au/docs/art...sp_01_0202.pdf

Making It Stick Part 1
http://www.sportcompactcarweb.com/te...t_1/index.html

How sway bars work, and why people use them
http://www.houseofthud.com/cartech/swaybars.htm

Handling Tuning Table
http://turnfast.com/tech_handling/ha...ingtable.shtml

[sciff5]

FRIGGEN sweet info!. Thats what I thought. I thought the H-techs were pretty stiff even though people have commented they ride really well. That enforces my belief that the H-techs may be the best choice for what I'm lookin for.

But H&R doesnt seem to release their spring rates so they could be an even better choice

[02theMax]

Good info... this is going to help me to make a better choice regarding strut/spring setup. Thanks!

[Puppetmaster]

Nice work, ya beat me to it... STICKY this bish...

Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....

[shurik]

I don't think it's that accurate. They took a picture from Housecor's site and placed it for H&R drop, while it's realy progress, and that's a big difference.


So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.

[sciff5]

There is lots of conflicting info on this board though. What I originally thought was that H&R was the best for comfort. I was originally gonna go with the H&R but than heard I would probably get a little better handling and stiffer ride from H-Techs (as well as a much more even drop) but one of the websites you listed said H&Rs would have better handling than H-Techs becauase of their superior R&D.

And the site recommended Koni Yellows but it seems like no one on this board runs those struts. It seems like Iluminas are by far the most popular.

Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.

[yofmatt]

that sucks H&R doesn't release theirs. I found them on Zilvia.net for my S13, there's gotta be someone who has them for the Max.

[DrKlop]

Originally Posted by Puppetmaster

Nice work, ya beat me to it... STICKY this bish...

Btw, got info on KYB struts? GR-2s and AGXs? I was hoping for compression and rebound damping rates for each setting of the Illuminas and AGXs....

Well, perhaps I have to finish the job… hopefully there will be an update tomorrow.

BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.

how exactly should I "sticky" this?

[Puppetmaster]

Originally Posted by DrKlop

Well, perhaps I have to finish the job… hopefully there will be an update tomorrow.

BTW: KYB damping force values are posted here: http://maxmods.dyndns.org/index.php?...KybAgxSettings Although it is not stated whether it’s for the 5th or 4th gen.

how exactly should I "sticky" this?

The AGXs are the same for 4th and 5th Gens except for how they are mounted. I guess we just need that info for the Illuminas.

Send Tim (semy2k2go) a PM to see what he thinks; if it is Sticky worthy or not, and if it is, he will add it to the FAQs.

[Puppetmaster]

Originally Posted by sciff5

There is lots of conflicting info on this board though. What I originally thought was that H&R was the best for comfort. I was originally gonna go with the H&R but than heard I would probably get a little better handling and stiffer ride from H-Techs (as well as a much more even drop) but one of the websites you listed said H&Rs would have better handling than H-Techs becauase of their superior R&D.

I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.

It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.

You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.

Originally Posted by sciff5

Has anyone done a back to back comparison of springs? We should really get some cars together with different setups so that people can see for themselves which setup they like the most.

I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.

[DrKlop]

Originally Posted by shurik

I don't think it's that accurate. They took a picture from Housecor's site and placed it for H&R drop, while it's realy progress, and that's a big difference.


So I don't know if we can trust the rest of the info, but anyway sounds like a good stiky.

I can only guarantee the accuracy of my information (what ever is posted directly in my post) but people seem to use those websites pretty often and I haven't seen anyone complaining about the wrong information posted there.

[crispykid717]

Good info in this thread. It should definately be stickied.

[sciff5]

Originally Posted by Puppetmaster

I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.

It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.

You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.



I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.

This is why we should get a few cars together with different suspension setups. This would allow everyone to ride in others cars to see if they like the feel of that setup. That would really be the only way someone could make up their mind for themselves

[Puppetmaster]

Originally Posted by sciff5

This is why we should get a few cars together with different suspension setups.

You mean an organized event? You could post in your local forums to organize a local meet for that, I'm sure people would find it useful.

[sciff5]

Originally Posted by Puppetmaster

I've posted this many times before: ride comfort is all based on personal opinion. What may be the "best for comfort" to one person may not be for another person.

It also hard to compare which springs "handle" better since everyone drives in different conditions and are of different ability. The tires, struts, and remainder of the suspension set-up are additional important considerations to take into account.

You need to figure out what works best for you and not be overly dependent on the opinions of others (or at least be careful on who and what you listen to), either by checking out others' rides or just spending the money on trial and error.



I'll be swapping out my Progress springs to H-techs soon and will post my opinion on how those 2 compare with Illuminas when the time comes.

BTW Progress has had some great sucess with Hondas/acuras, so I am curious to hear what the outcome of your comparison is.

[sciff5]

Originally Posted by Puppetmaster

You mean an organized event? You could post in your local forums to organize a local meet for that, I'm sure people would find it useful.

Yeah an organized event but there doesnt seem to be a whole ton of org members around the New England area. Hell my house would even be a perfect place to meet. I live lirerally next to a public beach, I meen I can lean out my window right now and spit in the beach parking lot. So there would be plenty of parking for everyone.

[CCS2k1Max]

Originally Posted by DrKlop

While researching what spring/shock combo I should get for my car, I’ve discovered that there’s just not enough information available on Maxima.org and linked websites to properly choose the correct setup.

IWNTMORPH posted the rates a while back, but I am yet to find out what the OEM rates are. I have estimates, but it would be nice to have a baseline to start with.

http://forums.maxima.org/showpost.ph...&postcount=276

[VQuick]

on OEM rates, I've been trying to find those out.

I'm not sure the TEIN High-Techs are progressive...I have them and they ride pretty stiff in my opinion. I think progressive springs would be softer on little bumps.

The front don't look progressive to me:


The rear look progressive, maybe:


I assumed that because TEIN only gives one rate for the front and one for the rear that they were NOT progressive but please correct me if I'm wrong.

[DrKlop]

I still think that H-techs are progressive because 180 lbs/in is just too stiff for constant rate. Everyone knows that Eibachs are relatively stiff springs but their initial rate is only 139 and the secondary rate is 188 which is only 8 lbs/in stiffer than known rate of H-techs.

I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.

BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.

[sciff5]

Originally Posted by DrKlop

I still think that H-techs are progressive because 180 lbs/in is just too stiff for constant rate. Everyone knows that Eibachs are relatively stiff springs but their initial rate is only 139 and the secondary rate is 188 which is only 8 lbs/in stiffer than known rate of H-techs.

I also remember reading somewhere that progressive rate spring might still look like it's a constant rate spring.

BTW: I think it's next to impossible to find out stock spring rate. I can't even think of the place where this info is available. The only way to find out is probably to use some kind of measurement tool.

Arent springs measured in lbs/in. Couldent we compress a stock spring, see how much force it takes to compress it and than divide that by the amount of inches it moves from uncompressed to full compression?

I am just guessing here

Also from what everyone has said H-techs are progressive

BTW Vquick how does your max handle and have you tried any other suspension setups to compare to the H-techs?
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them

[VQuick]

Originally Posted by sciff5

BTW Vquick how does your max handle and have you tried any other suspension setups to compare to the H-techs?
I am really curious about your thoughts on this spring because I am thinkin of buying them

They are fine. I think struts matter more than springs (definitley get Illuminas or Koni Yellows, I'd stay away from AGX or anything cheaper) and springs are also cheaper than struts and easier to come by used if you don't like what you get. I picked the High-Techs over H&Rs or Eibachs because the advertised drop was better for manny tranny (I think it was 1.6 F 1.2 R) because I didn't want too much front wheelgap. I'm fairly happy with the drop, although at this point I'm thinking of coilovers for a much lower drop. The TEINs are very high quality springs and unlike most springs they come with the plastic coilgards preinstalled. However, I've not really ridden in a lot of Maxes with different spring setups so I can't compare for you. The "luxury" High-Techs are definitely stiffer than stock SE springs, of course.

[yofmatt]

btw, you can convert KG/MM into lbs/in by multiplying by 55.8. So 4.5 kg/mm*55.8 = 251.1 lbs/in, and 251 lbs/in divided by 55.8 is 4.5.

So for Tein H: 178.56 lbs/in front/ 284.58 lbs/in rear
Tein S: 200.88 lbs/in front; 267.84 lbs/in rear

[yofmatt]

Why are people saying the Tein H rides better than the Tein S? It would only ride better in the front, as the springrates are softer than Tein S in the front, but the rear is stiffer. I'm sure the back seat passengers would disagree.