Test Fitting the Blehmco Stage 2 LTB on 5.5 gen w/ gen2 headers
11-14-2005, 07:18 AM
#1
Test Fitting the Blehmco Stage 2 LTB on 5.5 gen w/ gen2 headers
All
Have been talking with Matt Blehm and djfrestyl and we are going to do a test fit of the stage 2 lower tie bars over the new cattman gen 2 headers. Hopefully that close fitment on the y pipe will help the bar clear the headers!
Hopefully, Nilesh and I will be getting this done within the next 2 weeks. The one question I have is, Are hand tools and jack stands going to be good enough to get this bar on?
Irish - I know you have installed the LTB, so if you could throw some input my way it would be
Have been talking with Matt Blehm and djfrestyl and we are going to do a test fit of the stage 2 lower tie bars over the new cattman gen 2 headers. Hopefully that close fitment on the y pipe will help the bar clear the headers!
Hopefully, Nilesh and I will be getting this done within the next 2 weeks. The one question I have is, Are hand tools and jack stands going to be good enough to get this bar on?
Irish - I know you have installed the LTB, so if you could throw some input my way it would be
11-14-2005, 07:25 AM
#2
Originally Posted by rbrown81
Hopefully, Nilesh and I will be getting this done within the next 2 weeks. The one question I have is, Are hand tools and jack stands going to be good enough to get this bar on?
Irish - I know you have installed the LTB, so if you could throw some input my way it would be
Irish - I know you have installed the LTB, so if you could throw some input my way it would be
11-14-2005, 08:00 AM
#3
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
I've seen Josh install it with jack stands and hand tools on a 3rd Gen (which needed a grinder as well) so for your 5.5 you should be able to do it with less trouble than that. All the best.
Josh, how tough was the bushing install on the control arms?
11-14-2005, 12:02 PM
#7
ok, now I'm back from vacation I'll jump in:
1. would strongly suggest air tools. For the 5th gen, the bush pin links (where the front posts of the LTB go) are angled a bit outward, so you need to loosen all the bolts that hold the bush pin on (it's the gray/silver piece with the 4-5 bolts in it). These are NOT easy to break loose without impact tools.
2. the bushings are a MAJOR pain in the ****. Even the little "easy" ones took me a long time to get out of a BRAND NEW control arm - couldn't imagine trying to get ones out that have been in for a while. I haven't done the big ones (yet)...waiting until next spring, but I hear it is QUITE a job. Might want to have a shop press the old ones out.
3. the tolerances of the LTB are a tight fit, so you will need to make sure to muscle it good. It gets frustrating, but it WILL fit.
4. Dont' crank down the front bolts until the car is on the ground, unless you are using the poly bushings already. you could tear the rubber bushings if you do.
5. Joel, aside from the grinding, the 3rd gen one is MUCH easier to put on than the 5th gen bar, because the bush pin links aren't angled out like they are on the 5th gen
good luck!
1. would strongly suggest air tools. For the 5th gen, the bush pin links (where the front posts of the LTB go) are angled a bit outward, so you need to loosen all the bolts that hold the bush pin on (it's the gray/silver piece with the 4-5 bolts in it). These are NOT easy to break loose without impact tools.
2. the bushings are a MAJOR pain in the ****. Even the little "easy" ones took me a long time to get out of a BRAND NEW control arm - couldn't imagine trying to get ones out that have been in for a while. I haven't done the big ones (yet)...waiting until next spring, but I hear it is QUITE a job. Might want to have a shop press the old ones out.
3. the tolerances of the LTB are a tight fit, so you will need to make sure to muscle it good. It gets frustrating, but it WILL fit.
4. Dont' crank down the front bolts until the car is on the ground, unless you are using the poly bushings already. you could tear the rubber bushings if you do.
5. Joel, aside from the grinding, the 3rd gen one is MUCH easier to put on than the 5th gen bar, because the bush pin links aren't angled out like they are on the 5th gen
good luck!
11-14-2005, 06:47 PM
#8
Originally Posted by irish44j
ok, now I'm back from vacation I'll jump in:
1. would strongly suggest air tools. For the 5th gen, the bush pin links (where the front posts of the LTB go) are angled a bit outward, so you need to loosen all the bolts that hold the bush pin on (it's the gray/silver piece with the 4-5 bolts in it). These are NOT easy to break loose without impact tools.
2. the bushings are a MAJOR pain in the ****. Even the little "easy" ones took me a long time to get out of a BRAND NEW control arm - couldn't imagine trying to get ones out that have been in for a while. I haven't done the big ones (yet)...waiting until next spring, but I hear it is QUITE a job. Might want to have a shop press the old ones out.
3. the tolerances of the LTB are a tight fit, so you will need to make sure to muscle it good. It gets frustrating, but it WILL fit.
4. Dont' crank down the front bolts until the car is on the ground, unless you are using the poly bushings already. you could tear the rubber bushings if you do.
5. Joel, aside from the grinding, the 3rd gen one is MUCH easier to put on than the 5th gen bar, because the bush pin links aren't angled out like they are on the 5th gen
good luck!
1. would strongly suggest air tools. For the 5th gen, the bush pin links (where the front posts of the LTB go) are angled a bit outward, so you need to loosen all the bolts that hold the bush pin on (it's the gray/silver piece with the 4-5 bolts in it). These are NOT easy to break loose without impact tools.
2. the bushings are a MAJOR pain in the ****. Even the little "easy" ones took me a long time to get out of a BRAND NEW control arm - couldn't imagine trying to get ones out that have been in for a while. I haven't done the big ones (yet)...waiting until next spring, but I hear it is QUITE a job. Might want to have a shop press the old ones out.
3. the tolerances of the LTB are a tight fit, so you will need to make sure to muscle it good. It gets frustrating, but it WILL fit.
4. Dont' crank down the front bolts until the car is on the ground, unless you are using the poly bushings already. you could tear the rubber bushings if you do.
5. Joel, aside from the grinding, the 3rd gen one is MUCH easier to put on than the 5th gen bar, because the bush pin links aren't angled out like they are on the 5th gen
good luck!
11-18-2005, 10:36 AM
#10
Originally Posted by crispykid717
Props for doing this. This has been the only thing holding me back from getting the stage II over the stage I. Can't wait to see the finished product.
Irish - anything I need to be careful with while playing with the control arms?
11-18-2005, 10:37 AM
#11
Originally Posted by sublimer
wow rbrown....youre really crankin out those mods...
missed you at the meet this sunday....wanted to take a look (and listen) at those gen2 headers.
missed you at the meet this sunday....wanted to take a look (and listen) at those gen2 headers.
11-18-2005, 01:17 PM
#12
Originally Posted by rbrown81
Thanks Crispy - I spoke to Matt Blehm and he says that if the Stage 2 doesnt fit, the stage 1 bars wont fit either. The location where the bars connect the control arms is the clearance area in question. Kinda dismaying but hopefully these headers sit up close enough to get clearance!
Irish - anything I need to be careful with while playing with the control arms?
Irish - anything I need to be careful with while playing with the control arms?
11-20-2005, 06:51 PM
#13
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but didn't the gen 1 headers fit on the 5th gens with the stage II LTB? what has changed so much with these gen 2 that they wouldn't fit...I don't think that lower section of the y pipe section was changed any...all the changes in bends were done higher up I believe and don't result in a lower hanging header than the gen 1's...even if the clearance is closer, wouldn't shaving the LTB a little work?
11-20-2005, 07:30 PM
#14
Originally Posted by michaelnyden
but didn't the gen 1 headers fit on the 5th gens with the stage II LTB? what has changed so much with these gen 2 that they wouldn't fit...I don't think that lower section of the y pipe section was changed any...all the changes in bends were done higher up I believe and don't result in a lower hanging header than the gen 1's...even if the clearance is closer, wouldn't shaving the LTB a little work?
Unfortunately, Nilesh and I did not have enough time today to do the test fitment on the car. Hopefully we'll be able to do it soon.
11-20-2005, 08:14 PM
#15
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but hnda etr (roy) had the gen 1 cattman headers on his 5.5 gen and the stage II LTB fit IIRC...that was b4 he went turbo of course and got rid of the headers for a downpipe of course...
on his website it only says it won't clear the 4th gen's with the cattman headers because of the LTB being significantly different (as you can see in the pics on that page) that of the 5th gen ones due to differences in the LCA's...
on his website it only says it won't clear the 4th gen's with the cattman headers because of the LTB being significantly different (as you can see in the pics on that page) that of the 5th gen ones due to differences in the LCA's...
11-20-2005, 08:51 PM
#16
michaelnyden is right about what the BlehmCo website says:
And that the Stage II did fit Roy's car (you can see it on his homepage).
But then I guess since ya spoke with Matt about it, he may know something that we don't.
Originally Posted by http://www.mattblehm.com/suspension.htm
Stage II
This one is a bit more complex. It bolts onto an additional frame mount behind the control arms to provide more strength and reduce chassis flex even more. You don't lose any more ground clearance, but you do gain several more steps up the ladder in the handling department.
For 3rd gens, this requires a small amount of grinding on the left side gusset to fit, but does not alter or weaken the structure of the car at all--you simply have to enlarge one hole by about 2mm for one of the mounting points to fit properly. For 4th and 5th gens, this is a simple 15 minute install (assuming you have air tools and a jack).
Current fittments WILL Clear all aftermarket Y-pipes (Warpspeed Performance, Cattman, Stillen), but will NOT clear the Cattman headers on the 4th gen. I'm working with a customer in redesigning the 4th gen bar so that it will fit. If you have these headers or plan to purchase them, stay tuned and I'll have a design that fits.
This one is a bit more complex. It bolts onto an additional frame mount behind the control arms to provide more strength and reduce chassis flex even more. You don't lose any more ground clearance, but you do gain several more steps up the ladder in the handling department.
For 3rd gens, this requires a small amount of grinding on the left side gusset to fit, but does not alter or weaken the structure of the car at all--you simply have to enlarge one hole by about 2mm for one of the mounting points to fit properly. For 4th and 5th gens, this is a simple 15 minute install (assuming you have air tools and a jack).
Current fittments WILL Clear all aftermarket Y-pipes (Warpspeed Performance, Cattman, Stillen), but will NOT clear the Cattman headers on the 4th gen. I'm working with a customer in redesigning the 4th gen bar so that it will fit. If you have these headers or plan to purchase them, stay tuned and I'll have a design that fits.
But then I guess since ya spoke with Matt about it, he may know something that we don't.
11-21-2005, 07:04 AM
#17
Originally Posted by Puppetmaster
michaelnyden is right about what the BlehmCo website says:
And that the Stage II did fit Roy's car (you can see it on his homepage).
But then I guess since ya spoke with Matt about it, he may know something that we don't.
And that the Stage II did fit Roy's car (you can see it on his homepage).
But then I guess since ya spoke with Matt about it, he may know something that we don't.
11-21-2005, 08:09 AM
#18
Originally Posted by irish44j
not really, just make sure to thread all the bolts correctly (especially the ones that hold the lower bush pin link onto the frame), as they seem to cross-thread pretty easily....don't want to strip anything.
There may be a mistake on the torque of the rear bolts, which as Irish said, are really soft (if they are easy to strip, they are as easy to break). The rear bolts should be torqued to only 69-83 ft-lb per the FSM. When I installed mine last February, the instructions wrongly stated 97-117 ft-lbs.
11-21-2005, 09:20 AM
#19
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here is an e-mail response garnered from Matt Blehm regarding fitment issues and cattman headers...
"Michael,
Thanks for letting me know on the 5th gen headers. I don't think
there
will be a problem with the Gen II if the Gen I fit without a problem.
I wasn't aware that anyone had actually tried the LTB with any sort of
headers on a 5th gen, so this is great news for me.
From my talks with Brian Catts, the gen II should actually have
slightly more room underneath than the gen I, so yours should fit
fine. If it does not, then I'll be glad to offer a complete refund
including shipping on it, just so I can have the confirmation of
whether
or not it fits.
Let me know if that's acceptable for you.
thanks!"
- Matt
Michael Nyden wrote:
> I have a 5th gen....2000....and have the new generation 2 cattman
> headers....will the stage II LTB I just ordered fit? or would I have
> to shave it down? my friend with the gen 1 cattman headers and a
2000
> maxima fit the stage II LTB just fine....I thought it was only on the
> 4th gen maxima's and cattman headers that didn't fit...
>
> please let me know before you ship mine out and complete my order...
>
> Thanks,
> -Michael Nyden
"Michael,
Thanks for letting me know on the 5th gen headers. I don't think
there
will be a problem with the Gen II if the Gen I fit without a problem.
I wasn't aware that anyone had actually tried the LTB with any sort of
headers on a 5th gen, so this is great news for me.
From my talks with Brian Catts, the gen II should actually have
slightly more room underneath than the gen I, so yours should fit
fine. If it does not, then I'll be glad to offer a complete refund
including shipping on it, just so I can have the confirmation of
whether
or not it fits.
Let me know if that's acceptable for you.
thanks!"
- Matt
Michael Nyden wrote:
> I have a 5th gen....2000....and have the new generation 2 cattman
> headers....will the stage II LTB I just ordered fit? or would I have
> to shave it down? my friend with the gen 1 cattman headers and a
2000
> maxima fit the stage II LTB just fine....I thought it was only on the
> 4th gen maxima's and cattman headers that didn't fit...
>
> please let me know before you ship mine out and complete my order...
>
> Thanks,
> -Michael Nyden
11-28-2005, 12:00 PM
#23
subscribing too. 
As said above, I had a customer with a 4th gen Max and Cattman Gen I headers purchase a stage II from me and it did not fit. Due to one of the precats on the 5th gen being below the engine, the 5th gen bar was designed with much more clearance under the engine and I am going to ASSUME the bars will fit the Cattman gen II headers on a 5gen - but I can't confirm nor deny that until someone actually tests it for me and we can all see the results.
Believe me, I'd certainly like to know exactly what models fit and don't fit! I've given up/lost many sales on these bars due to the uncertainty of these fittments. The sooner I know what fits what, the better!!
Hopefully these guys will be able to get together soon and post results.
As said above, I had a customer with a 4th gen Max and Cattman Gen I headers purchase a stage II from me and it did not fit. Due to one of the precats on the 5th gen being below the engine, the 5th gen bar was designed with much more clearance under the engine and I am going to ASSUME the bars will fit the Cattman gen II headers on a 5gen - but I can't confirm nor deny that until someone actually tests it for me and we can all see the results.
Believe me, I'd certainly like to know exactly what models fit and don't fit! I've given up/lost many sales on these bars due to the uncertainty of these fittments. The sooner I know what fits what, the better!!
Hopefully these guys will be able to get together soon and post results.
11-28-2005, 12:46 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Matt93SE
subscribing too.
As said above, I had a customer with a 4th gen Max and Cattman Gen I headers purchase a stage II from me and it did not fit. Due to one of the precats on the 5th gen being below the engine, the 5th gen bar was designed with much more clearance under the engine and I am going to ASSUME the bars will fit the Cattman gen II headers on a 5gen - but I can't confirm nor deny that until someone actually tests it for me and we can all see the results.
Believe me, I'd certainly like to know exactly what models fit and don't fit! I've given up/lost many sales on these bars due to the uncertainty of these fittments. The sooner I know what fits what, the better!!
Hopefully these guys will be able to get together soon and post results.
As said above, I had a customer with a 4th gen Max and Cattman Gen I headers purchase a stage II from me and it did not fit. Due to one of the precats on the 5th gen being below the engine, the 5th gen bar was designed with much more clearance under the engine and I am going to ASSUME the bars will fit the Cattman gen II headers on a 5gen - but I can't confirm nor deny that until someone actually tests it for me and we can all see the results.
Believe me, I'd certainly like to know exactly what models fit and don't fit! I've given up/lost many sales on these bars due to the uncertainty of these fittments. The sooner I know what fits what, the better!!
Hopefully these guys will be able to get together soon and post results.
Matt, I dont believe I will be able to get this done till after January though, I am going to be away from the 20th december until the 15th of Jan. Once I get back I will get the bar from you and pop it on!
-Rich
11-28-2005, 03:59 PM
#25
Originally Posted by CCS2k1Max
One more thing about these bolts rbrown81. Double check the Matt's instructions. I emailed him, but last I checked his website, he had not updated the info.
There may be a mistake on the torque of the rear bolts, which as Irish said, are really soft (if they are easy to strip, they are as easy to break). The rear bolts should be torqued to only 69-83 ft-lb per the FSM. When I installed mine last February, the instructions wrongly stated 97-117 ft-lbs.
There may be a mistake on the torque of the rear bolts, which as Irish said, are really soft (if they are easy to strip, they are as easy to break). The rear bolts should be torqued to only 69-83 ft-lb per the FSM. When I installed mine last February, the instructions wrongly stated 97-117 ft-lbs.
I do, however, have 10 of them from DaveB to put in next time I take the bush pin link off (spring, when I put in new LCSs)
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