Remote Start on 5spd Question...
09-12-2005, 12:59 PM
#1
Remote Start on 5spd Question...
Hey guys I want to get a remote start system for my car. I'm aware that you're not technically supposed to put most of the systems in a car with manual transmission like mine, however, I know that you can simply bypass the clutch. I also heard that they now make systems that have a chip of some sort that won't allow the car to start unless the e-brake is engaged but that's not a problem bc I always use the e-brake no matter what. Does anybody have a remote start for their 5 or 6 speed and know how to bypass the clutch or how complicated this is? Thanks.
09-12-2005, 03:37 PM
#3
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Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 963
If I am not mistaken the white/green goes to the PNP switch on the manual tranny. You may also want to include another check on the e-brake as you described - I think testing for ground might work for that.
You will also have to figure out the clutch bypass which I think requires putting the clutch switch to ground during starting (it's been a while).
As a side note, after figuring out how to do it, I never enabled the remote start as I saw it as too much of an insurance risk if the car was still in gear.
You will also have to figure out the clutch bypass which I think requires putting the clutch switch to ground during starting (it's been a while).
As a side note, after figuring out how to do it, I never enabled the remote start as I saw it as too much of an insurance risk if the car was still in gear.
09-12-2005, 04:04 PM
#4
Originally Posted by ABS
If I am not mistaken the white/green goes to the PNP switch on the manual tranny. You may also want to include another check on the e-brake as you described - I think testing for ground might work for that.
You will also have to figure out the clutch bypass which I think requires putting the clutch switch to ground during starting (it's been a while).
As a side note, after figuring out how to do it, I never enabled the remote start as I saw it as too much of an insurance risk if the car was still in gear.
You will also have to figure out the clutch bypass which I think requires putting the clutch switch to ground during starting (it's been a while).
As a side note, after figuring out how to do it, I never enabled the remote start as I saw it as too much of an insurance risk if the car was still in gear.
09-12-2005, 04:19 PM
#5
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 27
i've been wanting to get a remote start car for my car for a while, but i keep putting it off. i do know, however, to bypass the clutch. its actually quite simple. when you push in the clutch, the clutch pedal actually pushes a button. when you push this button, it connects 2 wires together that registers it as the clutch is pushed in. only now that the clutch is pushed in, the car can start. but if you clip the two wires that are behind the button, you can connect them and the clutch will always be "engaged". This only works for starting your car, driving and shifting will still go on normally. it doesn't affect them. also, what i did was ran those 2 wires to a switch so now i can turn the clutch on and off. this comes in handy when my friends get the clever idea to steal my keys and take off in my car. unfortunately, the switch says that the clutch is off, so the car wont start, even though the clutch is pushed in. i find it to be a good anti-theft device. since technically the purpose of the button is a safety purpose, bypassing might not be a good idea. because now you can start your car without the clutch, so just make sure you aren't in gear or you have the clutch pushed in. i hope this helps. pm me if you get one and tell me what remote starter you got and how its workin for you. i hope to eventually get around to gettin one.
09-12-2005, 04:50 PM
#6
Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 45
I have remote start on my 5 speed. Even though you start your car, other people may park it. I just had my car re-alligned and I started my car after they had parked it, my car took off for the races. Luckly I disengaged the remote start from the keyless and it stop before it hit anything. Just remember that it may not always be in neutral. But bypassing a clutch is easy. I have a simple switch I can toggle back and forth to allow the car to start/not start.
09-12-2005, 05:12 PM
#7
yep, switch at pedal is how you bypass clutch. now are you getting the remote start module using the oem keyfob, and the bypass module, right? that's probably the best route to keep everything else oem and cheapest.....no wiring the factory disarm, hooking up door locks and a bunch of other wires to deal with.
09-12-2005, 05:40 PM
#9
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Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 27
Originally Posted by bkucera
If you were to tie those wires together to make it appear (electrically) that the clutch was always engaged, would your cruise control still work? Because pushing the clutch in while cruise control is active disengages it...
09-13-2005, 05:17 PM
#12
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Location: Lakeland, FL
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i dont have a website, or any reference, im just looking at a wiring diagram.
theres a wire that goes to the ebrake, when the ebrake is pulled, the switch provides a ground path. you would be tying into this ground path, and the ebrake being pulled would simulate the clutch being fully depressed.
dont cut the LB wire at the clutch switch... just make a splice, that way you can start EITHER with the clutchdepressed, or the ebrake pulled.
now that i told you, please make your sig not sooo big... plz
thx
theres a wire that goes to the ebrake, when the ebrake is pulled, the switch provides a ground path. you would be tying into this ground path, and the ebrake being pulled would simulate the clutch being fully depressed.
dont cut the LB wire at the clutch switch... just make a splice, that way you can start EITHER with the clutchdepressed, or the ebrake pulled.
now that i told you, please make your sig not sooo big... plz
thx
09-13-2005, 07:52 PM
#14
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,587
Originally Posted by Igor911
You can use 2 relays to engage the clutch when the car is auto-started.
Don't tell me I'm wrong, I've done this way too many times
Don't tell me I'm wrong, I've done this way too many times
09-13-2005, 08:15 PM
#16
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no problem ...
the clutch is mechanically engaged, via a diaphragm spring on the pressure plate. theres no way a relay can 'engage' a clutch. maybe disengage, if you were to come up with an electro-hydraulic unit to act in place of the clutch pedal.
all your diagram does is add redundant relays, and is a bit different that what you said earlier, about simply connecting gn/wh to the NSS...
and futher investigation shows that pin 44 of the ECU isnt the clutch wire, so im modifying my previous posts for accuracy.
pin 44 gn/wh has NOTHING to do with the starting system.
Originally Posted by Igor911
You can use 2 relays to engage the clutch when the car is auto-started.
Don't tell me I'm wrong, I've done this way too many times
and futher investigation shows that pin 44 of the ECU isnt the clutch wire, so im modifying my previous posts for accuracy.
pin 44 gn/wh has NOTHING to do with the starting system.
09-13-2005, 08:23 PM
#17
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and even more, your diagram isnt quite correct. not only do you not have the pin numbers listed, the clutch switch is (-) switched, and only GND when depressed... if youre connecting to the relay coil side of the wire, then it MIGHT make sense... however, if the terminals on the right and left of the relays are 85, 86, then you have a redundant relay.
thats the way it appears, to bea half-asz bosch SPDT relay. but your 30 pin is 90º off.
thats the way it appears, to bea half-asz bosch SPDT relay. but your 30 pin is 90º off.
Originally Posted by Igor911
09-13-2005, 08:36 PM
#19
Originally Posted by BewstAdd1ct
no problem ...
the clutch is mechanically engaged, via a diaphragm spring on the pressure plate. theres no way a relay can 'engage' a clutch. maybe disengage, if you were to come up with an electro-hydraulic unit to act in place of the clutch pedal.
the clutch is mechanically engaged, via a diaphragm spring on the pressure plate. theres no way a relay can 'engage' a clutch. maybe disengage, if you were to come up with an electro-hydraulic unit to act in place of the clutch pedal.
When you start the car, you push the clutch down. THERE IS A BUTTON the clutch presses that lets the car know the clutch has been depressed for it to start.
My diagram sends out the + signal to the switch that tricks it into thinking the clutch was depressed.
You're clearly as idiot if you say I'm wrong...simply because this is working on my car and 2 others I have done.
Originally Posted by BewstAdd1ct
all your diagram does is add redundant relays, and is a bit different that what you said earlier, about simply connecting gn/wh to the NSS...
and futher investigation shows that pin 44 of the ECU isnt the clutch wire, so im modifying my previous posts for accuracy.
pin 44 gn/wh has NOTHING to do with the starting system.
and futher investigation shows that pin 44 of the ECU isnt the clutch wire, so im modifying my previous posts for accuracy.
pin 44 gn/wh has NOTHING to do with the starting system.
If the alarm recieves a - signal from pin 44, it wont start.
You have just been
. Thank you, come again.
09-13-2005, 08:36 PM
#20
A lot of the above posts are not only redundant but some incorrect.
No relays are needed to wire up a remote start so it won't start in gear. They won't hurt, but its just more money spent. First off, at the switch at the top of the clutch pedal, there are 2 wires, a black, and a non-black(I forget the color offhand). To make the car think the clutch is depressed, all you have to do is send the (-) status output signal (blue wire on DEI brains) from the brain to the non-black wire at the switch at the top of the clutch travel. You DO NOT want to just simply connect these wires to make the car think the clutch is depressed all the time, because even if you wire the neutral safety wire correctly so it wont remote start in gear, dumb@sses like valets can still get in and turn the key and start it without pushing the clutch.
To BewstAddict: Yes, at the ECU the green/white wire IS indeed the neutral safety wire. This wire reads ground when the car is in neutral, which means that all you need to do to ensure not starting in gear, is wire the neutral safety switch wire on the brain (black/white on DEI brains) directly to this green/white wire. You can also access/tap into this in the engine bay by removing the airbox.
Those are the ONLY 2 things you do differently when installing on a 5 speed as compared to an auto.
Im not trying to sound arrogant at all, but Kruppa, if you want more advice that is actually right, please pm me.
EDIT: Igor beat me to it, he did get owned.
No relays are needed to wire up a remote start so it won't start in gear. They won't hurt, but its just more money spent. First off, at the switch at the top of the clutch pedal, there are 2 wires, a black, and a non-black(I forget the color offhand). To make the car think the clutch is depressed, all you have to do is send the (-) status output signal (blue wire on DEI brains) from the brain to the non-black wire at the switch at the top of the clutch travel. You DO NOT want to just simply connect these wires to make the car think the clutch is depressed all the time, because even if you wire the neutral safety wire correctly so it wont remote start in gear, dumb@sses like valets can still get in and turn the key and start it without pushing the clutch.
To BewstAddict: Yes, at the ECU the green/white wire IS indeed the neutral safety wire. This wire reads ground when the car is in neutral, which means that all you need to do to ensure not starting in gear, is wire the neutral safety switch wire on the brain (black/white on DEI brains) directly to this green/white wire. You can also access/tap into this in the engine bay by removing the airbox.
Those are the ONLY 2 things you do differently when installing on a 5 speed as compared to an auto.
Im not trying to sound arrogant at all, but Kruppa, if you want more advice that is actually right, please pm me.
EDIT: Igor beat me to it, he did get owned.
09-13-2005, 08:39 PM
#21
Originally Posted by kpr10is
A lot of the above posts are not only redundant but some incorrect.
No relays are needed to wire up a remote start so it won't start in gear. They won't hurt, but its just more money spent. First off, at the switch at the top of the clutch pedal, there are 2 wires, a black, and a non-black(I forget the color offhand). To make the car think the clutch is depressed, all you have to do is send the (-) status output signal (blue wire on DEI brains) from the brain to the non-black wire at the switch at the top of the clutch travel. You DO NOT want to just simply connect these wires to make the car think the clutch is depressed all the time, because even if you wire the neutral safety wire correctly so it wont remote start in gear, dumb@sses like valets can still get in and turn the key and start it without pushing the clutch.
To BewstAddict: Yes, at the ECU the green/white wire IS indeed the neutral safety wire. This wire reads ground when the car is in neutral, which means that all you need to do to ensure not starting in gear, is wire the neutral safety switch wire on the brain (black/white on DEI brains) directly to this green/white wire. You can also access/tap into this in the engine bay by removing the airbox.
Those are the ONLY 2 things you do differently when installing on a 5 speed as compared to an auto.
Im not trying to sound arrogant at all, but Kruppa, if you want more advice that is actually right, please pm me.
EDIT: Igor beat me to it, he did get owned.
No relays are needed to wire up a remote start so it won't start in gear. They won't hurt, but its just more money spent. First off, at the switch at the top of the clutch pedal, there are 2 wires, a black, and a non-black(I forget the color offhand). To make the car think the clutch is depressed, all you have to do is send the (-) status output signal (blue wire on DEI brains) from the brain to the non-black wire at the switch at the top of the clutch travel. You DO NOT want to just simply connect these wires to make the car think the clutch is depressed all the time, because even if you wire the neutral safety wire correctly so it wont remote start in gear, dumb@sses like valets can still get in and turn the key and start it without pushing the clutch.
To BewstAddict: Yes, at the ECU the green/white wire IS indeed the neutral safety wire. This wire reads ground when the car is in neutral, which means that all you need to do to ensure not starting in gear, is wire the neutral safety switch wire on the brain (black/white on DEI brains) directly to this green/white wire. You can also access/tap into this in the engine bay by removing the airbox.
Those are the ONLY 2 things you do differently when installing on a 5 speed as compared to an auto.
Im not trying to sound arrogant at all, but Kruppa, if you want more advice that is actually right, please pm me.
EDIT: Igor beat me to it, he did get owned.
09-13-2005, 08:41 PM
#22
Originally Posted by Igor911
you're absolutly correct. You can also tap the wire at the main tranny harness under the airbox. This is where mine is tapped.
09-13-2005, 08:43 PM
#23
Originally Posted by kpr10is
Its tough keeping up with all the misinformation. I hardly ever come over into 5th gen from audio, and the one time I do I have to write a novel to keep up with everything in just this 1 thread.
09-13-2005, 08:50 PM
#26
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakeland, FL
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Originally Posted by Igor911
WRONG.
When you start the car, you push the clutch down. THERE IS A BUTTON the clutch presses that lets the car know the clutch has been depressed for it to start.
When you start the car, you push the clutch down. THERE IS A BUTTON the clutch presses that lets the car know the clutch has been depressed for it to start.
You're clearly as idiot if you say I'm wrong...simply because this is working on my car and 2 others I have done.
More proving that you don't know WTF your talking about. Pin 44 is a tranny wire that goes to the ECU. It sends out a -1 if the tranny is in gear or a 0 if its in N.
If the alarm recieves a - signal from pin 44, it wont start.
You have just been. Thank you, come again.
If the alarm recieves a - signal from pin 44, it wont start.
You have just been
. Thank you, come again.
so if i go out to the garage right now, put the trans in first, and depress the clutch, it wont start?
be right back. when i come back, ill tell you if i got owned or not.
09-13-2005, 08:54 PM
#27
Originally Posted by BewstAdd1ct
yes, i know theres a button. you didnt say the clutch pedal positions switch, you said the CLUTCH.
of course it works, theres just a redundant relay in there.
not quite... if pin 44 gets a GND it wont start?!
so if i go out to the garage right now, put the trans in first, and depress the clutch, it wont start?
be right back. when i come back, ill tell you if i got owned or not.
of course it works, theres just a redundant relay in there.
not quite... if pin 44 gets a GND it wont start?!
so if i go out to the garage right now, put the trans in first, and depress the clutch, it wont start?
be right back. when i come back, ill tell you if i got owned or not.
Originally Posted by igor911
Pin 44 is a tranny wire that goes to the ECU. It sends out a -1 if the tranny is in gear or a 0 if its in N.
If the alarm recieves a - signal from pin 44, it wont start.
If the alarm recieves a - signal from pin 44, it wont start.
I didnt say anything about grounding pin 44. You dont touch pin 44, you only TAP it. Use common sense.
09-13-2005, 08:55 PM
#28
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakeland, FL
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well, i would like to say
THANK YOU IGOR!!!
first off, the car started, so your pin 44 theory is wrong. but i would like to say thank you, because earlier i was taking a look at my headlights and then came back inside.
i left the garage open, and the passenger window DOWN. OMFG, its 11:55pm HERE, and quite a few things could have ended up missing.
de-owned x2
thanks again.
THANK YOU IGOR!!!
first off, the car started, so your pin 44 theory is wrong. but i would like to say thank you, because earlier i was taking a look at my headlights and then came back inside.
i left the garage open, and the passenger window DOWN. OMFG, its 11:55pm HERE, and quite a few things could have ended up missing.
de-owned x2
thanks again.
09-13-2005, 08:57 PM
#29
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Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Lakeland, FL
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Originally Posted by Igor911
I didnt say anything about grounding pin 44. You dont touch pin 44, you only TAP it. Use common sense.
when i say ground it, im not talking about permantently
so yeah, i guess 'tap it' might work
im too happy with you to be mad at you right now.
even though you were wrong
09-13-2005, 08:59 PM
#30
And it continues.....
BewstAddict, you obviously knew he meant the clutch switch and not the clutch itself. Use common sense.
Igor, you have it backwards but your point is still correct. The alarm needs to read a (-) signal from pin 44 to be able to remote start. At least all DEI alarms and all alarms Ive ever done.
BewstAddict, you obviously knew he meant the clutch switch and not the clutch itself. Use common sense.
Igor, you have it backwards but your point is still correct. The alarm needs to read a (-) signal from pin 44 to be able to remote start. At least all DEI alarms and all alarms Ive ever done.
09-13-2005, 09:02 PM
#31
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Location: Lakeland, FL
Posts: 1,587
Originally Posted by kpr10is
And it continues.....
BewstAddict, you obviously knew he meant the clutch switch and not the clutch itself. Use common sense.
Igor, you have it backwards but your point is still correct. The alarm needs to read a (-) signal from pin 44 to be able to start. At least all DEI alarms and all alarms Ive ever done.
okay, no big deal
on an aftermarket unit not so equipped, id pull it off with a SPDT relay, and ill show you how. just need a few minutes for a cheesy drawing in MS paint.
09-13-2005, 09:25 PM
#35
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money i guess 
, but everyone who has asked in this thread wants to know how to make it work to their car doesnt go rolling away. if they bought a DEI and read the instructions, then it would be done. for those who buy ebay RS systems for autos only, this is how to make it work...
, but everyone who has asked in this thread wants to know how to make it work to their car doesnt go rolling away. if they bought a DEI and read the instructions, then it would be done. for those who buy ebay RS systems for autos only, this is how to make it work...
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