BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

Okay, here it goes.....before posting these questions I have read through every thread I could find on this subject and have also read through the applicable TSB and sections of the FSM. Sorry for the long post.

Background:
- The SES light came on a couple of months ago during a road trip and the car seemed to be running fine so I ignored it and a few days later it disappeared. The ECU was never reset.
- I threw another code a few days ago. By using Studman's procedure, I pulled the codes and the ones that were being flashed were the P1147 & P0139. Both are related to the Heated Oxygen Sensor 2 (Bank 1).
- I checked the reference link for these two codes and was directed to TSB #NTB02-051a which may or may not be applicable to my 2K2 (I won't know for sure until I know my current ECM program).
- My car has 92,000km (about 60,000 miles) so the basic emissions warranty and bumper-to-bumper warranty have expired although the OBD II emission warranty still applies.

Here are my questions:
1) How do I know which code is the current one and which one is the one stored from several months back that disappeared?
2) Is there any way to determine what my ECM P/N is to see if I qualify for the TSB for this O2 sensor? If I call the dealership who performed the hesitation TSB would they know what it is and actually tell me? Would the MAF reprogramming they did for this hesitation TSB in June/04 have included the reprogram for the O2 sensors?
3) It sounds like I might be able to get the reprogram done under the OBD II emissions warranty but I would have to purchase the O2 sensors myself, correct?
4) If the SES disappears on its own, should I still be concerned about it? Further still, if I reset the ECU to erase the codes and they don't return, should I be concerned about it?
5) Has anybody had any luck getting their dealer to perform the ECM reprogram without having to replace the O2 sensor?
6) Are there any other symptoms that could help me determine if my O2 sensor is bad? Could this just be Nissan's finicky SES or is it too much of a coincidence that both codes I have stored relate to the same O2 sensor (i.e. almost surely meaning the sensor is bad).

Thank you everyone for your help. Sorry for the long post but I wanted to be thorough with my questions and my existing situation. I would greatly appreciate any input from the many org experts or anybody who has gone through a similar situation.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

Here you go, my saga :-)

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=419384

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

Thanks for the link - I actually did see that thread. It sure sounds like you got the run around, I hope to avoid the same thing.

If nobody has any better ideas I think what I'll probably do is call my dealer and talk to the service manager and see what he says and hopefully I'll be able to tell beforehand if they're going to bend me over the table. If they are, I'll reset the ECU to clear the code and see if it comes back. If it does, I'll buy the O2 sensor myself, replace it myself, and take it in to the dealership for the TSB reprogramming.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

Yeah, I would do just that. Reset it and if it comes back replace it. And if it comes back again get it reprogrammed... Dealers here charge 1 hr of labor to reprogram...

Zog

iTrader: (1)

Definitely don't let them install an 02 sensor, and definitely don't buy it from them. They tried to charge me $50 more than DaveB's SHIPPED price for the POS. It's an easy install, took the longest to get the old one off it's clip in the engine bay. I never even had my ECU reprogrammed, just replaced the 02 sensor. What does the reprogram entail ?

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

Can you tell me what Dave B's shipped price was? My dealer wants $150 CDN per sensor. The TSB calls for replacement of BOTH rear sensors although the codes I am throwing only relate to one of them so I will probably just replace that one and wait to see if the other one eventually throws a DTC as well.

From what I have read the best I can tell is that the reprogram updates the ECM to allow readings from the O2 sensors that are a little more liberal than the original program. In other words, the new program won't cause the O2 sensors to throw codes so easily. I am guessing that if you replaced your O2 sensor but didn't get the reprogram (assuming your ECM p/n qualifies you for the reprogram), then there's a good chance you may throw another O2 sensor code in the future even though your sensor might be perfectly fine.

My dealer wants 0.8 hours for the reprogram, so $68. I am going to fight them on this one though because I am pretty sure the reprogram should be covered under the OBD II 130,000km emissions warranty.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

DaveB's price is about USD $110 shipped to Canada and if you add conv rate, tax and duty it will cost the same as at the dealer. I went through this route already :-) If you can, get a Bosch (mfg for OEM) or Wagner. Check your local Napa or CarQuest they may have it for cheaper...

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

I talked to the local dealership and it sounds like they aren't willing to do anything for me other than charge me outrageous prices to fix it.

One other question......should the reprogramming at least be covered under the 8-year 130,000km warranty? They told me that all aspects of that TSB would be covered under the 3-year 60,000km warranty only (which I am already past), not the 8-year 130,000km emission warranty (which I still qualify for). And I don't have a y-pipe so they can't blame it on that even.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

I changed my O2 sensor and still have the light on. Will try to go tomorrow to get the ECM reprogrammed under warranty... Will let you know how it went... BTW, I am from Ontario...

BewstAdd1ct

yes, pcm reprogramming or replacement is covered under 8/80 federal emissions warranty.

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

Thanks, I knew they were feeding me a line of bull but I didn't have my manual with me to contradict their statement. I have reset the ECU and cleared the codes for now.....we'll see if/when the SES light comes back. At that time I will be going back to the dealership with manual in hand prepared for battle.

darrick04

Yup have one on the way from AUTOZONE, $95.54 compared to the local dealers price of $154+tax, so yeah I am getting mine from AUTOZONE and installin myself, and my ? is y can't u just clear the code after u install it with the free AUTOZONE scan, shouldn't that reset it instead of payin the dealer an OUTRAGEOUS amount for something that can be done for free. Wouldn't that work

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

That would clear the code temporarily for sure but the problem is that the dealer also does a reprogram to prevent the sensor from throwing a nuisance code again in the future. Without getting this reprogramming done you are taking your chances on whether or not the problem is going to reappear.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

Yes, I had the same codes come up, replaced the O2 sensor and erased the codes and a day later the SES came back on again. Does this mean I need to reprogram?

BTW, all dealers I called (4-5 of them in area) want me to pay for reprogramming regardless of the emissions warranty. They say if you want it reprogrammed, pay $90...

BewstAdd1ct

tell them to **** off... seriously, programming is .7hrs, IIRC. unless the hourly rate is $100 theyre overquoting.

igzy

iTrader: (18)

They say the charge for warranty if they are claiming it back to Nissan is .7 hrs. otherwise for us suckers is a full hr.

BewstAdd1ct

is this the same dealer again? of course theyre gonna say that... it means more money for them.

warranty isnt gonna pay .7 for something that takes .3

customer pay labor time for reprogramming ECM is .7

BigFly_2K2SE

iTrader: (1)

I think I would try disconnecting the battery overnight to clear the ECU and see if the code comes back again. That's bullsh!t having to pay them $90 to clear your codes, especially if it's true that the programming has been already done like they told you. I take it on a 2K you can't perform an "ECU reset" procedure to clear codes like you can on a 2K2?

igzy

iTrader: (18)

I don't like to pay them anything for that matter The ECU reset procedure for 2K is just to disconnect the battery for 25 hrs. I am at 12 hrs now :-) I'll try that and see what happens...

pyro02se

So basically if i am getting p0138/139 codes and a p1147 code they are both related? My question is can the p0138/139 codes cause a MAF to fail. Mine has completely went out both times and I get the same code p1147. The car shows no symptoms of a failing MAF and all of the sudden....only at WOT it completely goes out. I get these codes from time to time and Nissan's not to happy about eating the other 2 sensors. I have yet to replace my o2's and thought that a clogged cat could cause these codes. The car goes into "limp" mode when the MAF fails and throws the p1147 code.

I got qouted $175 to put a new magnaflow cat on it...would punching it out be just as effective?

Thanks