RSB Installed On Lowered Max

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:43 AM

Just some thoughts from someone who went from a set-up with Progress springs, Illumina struts, and eBay FSTB to Progress springs, Illumina struts, OTTO FSTB, and Progress RSB.

In a nutshell: From what I could tell, the RSB makes a significant improvement, even with me being lowered already.

Phase I - Replaced eBay FSTB with OTTO FSTB, no RSB

It feels slightly different... I took some ramps between 40-60 mph and the beefier OTTO FSTB seems to do a better job of firming up the front struts when turning as compared to the eBay FSTB. No other changes were noticed in terms of hitting bumps at high speeds or steering responsiveness; both FSTBs seem to be equal there. Just as a reminder, having the eBay FSTB was still better than not having one at all.

For those local, the ramps I used were the ramp from 66 West to 50 East, the ramp from 123 North to 66 West, and the ramp from Fairfax County Parkway to 66 East.

Phase II - Added Progress RSB, to go with OTTO FSTB

Cornering feels tight in terms of turning responsiveness and keeping the back end of the car tighter around both sharp and mild bends at decent speeds (40-60). BUT I can definitely feel the oversteer and can see where it may get dangerous in terms of spinning out. As stated in the past, the back end does feel firm, but on bumpy ramps at high speeds, it does feel like it wants to "jump out".

On shorter, sharper curves (speed limit was between 15-25 mph, but I took em at around 35-50 mph), the car definitely takes them much flatter and more controlled. Oversteer however, was very apparent and a couple times I did venture slightly into the other lane. Overall a marked improvement over just struts/springs, if you are wary of the oversteer.

On longer, sweeping curves (highway on and off ramps at 40-60 mph) the car was much flatter and tighter, but the oversteer was not as apparent as on the shorter, more extreme bends. Overall it definitely feels more controlled with the RSB than it did with just the struts/springs upgraded.

For those local, I did these test runs along Oakton Rd, Waples Mill Rd, and Fox Mill Rd. For the ramps, I used the same as above.

This is by no means a technical review from an expert... I'm just going by the feel of car in those driving conditions and I'm confident that I've decent "feel" as a driver

. I thought it'd be a somewhat useful review since many people seem to wonder how much improvement they can see by adding an RSB to a car that's already lowered on aftermarket struts/springs and also to document my thoughts on the OTTO/Stillen FSTB vs the eBay FSTB.

FYI, Illuminas were set 3F 3R and the tires were 235/45/17 Falken ZEIX 512s at 35 psi F & R.

For more opinions:

FS: Intrax Lowering Springs

Edmunds TMV: Our car is worth...

Updated Cardomain Page

do any of you ahve 16 inch rims on your 2k2?

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:53 AM

Btw, thanks to Jason (Soonerfan) for help with the RSB install, Jason (Cutler) for use of his racing jack, parking spaces, etc etc, and Josh (Irish44J) for hangin out and harassing us the whole time...

ChromeSE5 · 06-23-2005, 02:56 PM

thanks for posting results. I was asking the same question and got soempretty stupid responses. Anyways, i pretty much agree with you on everything. I have the stillen and adjusted the bar to the tightest setting for fear of my car not feeling the effects of a rear sway bar since its lowered more than two inches. It did make a difference but i wasnt sure if it was also because of the softness of my springs (maxspeeds).

maxgangsta02 · 06-23-2005, 05:20 PM

the RSB was the 1st mod on my 02 and i love it! you VA guys are having too much fun!

*Ataraxia* · 06-23-2005, 06:50 PM

I have a 2k2 and want to install a FSTB and a Anti-Sway. Any difference between the Progress and the Stillen Anti-Sway? Opinions on the FSTB are also welcome.

**irish44j** · 06-23-2005, 07:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh0411

I have a 2k2 and want to install a FSTB and a Anti-Sway. Any difference between the Progress and the Stillen Anti-Sway? Opinions on the FSTB are also welcome.

In terms of performance: yes and no.

They are different in two primary ways:
The progress attaches in 4 points (trailing arms and u-bolts on the axle), while the stillen attaches only on the trailing arms.

The other difference, which I had never noticed before (but was APPARENT when we put Joel's RSB on and my car was sitting a few fee away) is that the Stillen bar is much thicker (I'd guesstimate at least 25-35% thicker).

That said, I doubt there are many (if any) here who have used BOTH the bars on the same car (with the same "other' suspension components), so really a fair comparison is probably not possible.

All said, you will be happy with either.

Joel, I'm always happy to come harass.

Now, get a LTB, and I'll actually help out

*Bluesbrekr* · 06-23-2005, 08:03 PM

I was going to remove my RSB after I installed the D2 coilovers, but got lazy and left it on. I was thinking it would make ther rear end too tight and ridgid. Well, I was wrong. I'll be leaving it on.

I ran the car at the track day at Maxus and it was 'just right'. The slowest corners were about 45-50 and the fastest were about 80-85. There was a bit of oversteer, but not lots. Similar to what Puppet described about the higher speed cornering. The car felt very controlled.

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChromeSE5

thanks for posting results. I was asking the same question and got soempretty stupid responses.

Yeah, I saw your thread... just thought I'd actually try it and post some comments as a result of actually trying it out... never thought I needed a RSB but after my "tests" today, I'm convinced and that sucka is staying put for a while...

Btw, the auto-x/road racing forum that we have is a great resource for suspension tips and info... I've been lurking in there for a bit recently....

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxgangsta02

the RSB was the 1st mod on my 02 and i love it! you VA guys are having too much fun!

Are ya really from NZ? Cuz I am sorta... going in 2 weeks to visit my parents...

And yeah... the DC/MD/VA Max crew knows how to have a good time...

*LA02MAX* · 06-23-2005, 09:48 PM

i'd say this is yet another thread by puppet worthy of a sticky

I decided to lower my car before getting an RSB, because quite frankly, i didn't think it would make much difference after being lowered...but now that you proved me wrong, it looks like i have to spend more money!

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

That said, I doubt there are many (if any) here who have used BOTH the bars on the same car (with the same "other' suspension components), so really a fair comparison is probably not possible.

I'll swap RSBs with you sometime and maybe we can figure that out for sure... but like we discussed, what matters more are the tensile properties of the bars, not thickness... but differences in actual handling would probably be minimal at best, IMO.

Just putting this out as a topic for discussion, but I doubt this is really that significant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

Joel, I'm always happy to come harass.

Now, get a LTB, and I'll actually help out

I'm seriously considering it... how about some SFCs?

**Puppetmaster** · 06-23-2005, 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bluesbrekr

I ran the car at the track day at Maxus and it was 'just right'. The slowest corners were about 45-50 and the fastest were about 80-85. There was a bit of oversteer, but not lots. Similar to what Puppet described about the higher speed cornering. The car felt very controlled.

Glad someone else can confirm what I felt... a little bit surprising that its from you though, since ya have coilovers, although I guess by virtue of the way the RSB works, it kinda makes sense... anyways... thanks for the confirmation and congrats on the Maxus win Tom!

*Bluesbrekr* · 06-24-2005, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Puppetmaster

Glad someone else can confirm what I felt... a little bit surprising that its from you though, since ya have coilovers, although I guess by virtue of the way the RSB works, it kinda makes sense... anyways... thanks for the confirmation and congrats on the Maxus win Tom!

Thanks. Maxus was a blast. Anyone not there really missed a great time.

I don't do auto-x so I won't be able to report on the amount of oversteer in tight slower turns, but the result would probably be similar to your observation that there is much more in that situation.

*chr0nos* · 06-24-2005, 06:37 AM

yup, i have ebay fstb and rstb, and just put on a Progress RSB. the oversteer is much more apparent at small sharp corners. i also got Matt Blehm's stage 1 front anti-sway bar, but kinda wish i went with the stage 2. the front one is going on this saturday, and hopefully will get rid of some oversteer, or at least make the cornering even more tight. the progress rsb did not do as much as i hoped, it definetely helped, but i thought the car would be on rails. anyway, i got h&r springs, and tokico hp's, and all these will go on next month prolly. THAT should be a major improvement with all the other suspension goodies already on.

For all here that have replaced their SPRINGS AND SHOCKS, did you see more improvement from the replacement, or RSB and FSTB etc. upgrades?

**Puppetmaster** · 06-26-2005, 05:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chr0nos

the progress rsb did not do as much as i hoped, it definetely helped, but i thought the car would be on rails. anyway, i got h&r springs, and tokico hp's, and all these will go on next month prolly. THAT should be a major improvement with all the other suspension goodies already on.

For all here that have replaced their SPRINGS AND SHOCKS, did you see more improvement from the replacement, or RSB and FSTB etc. upgrades?

Btw, you should not expect a Maxima to be able to "turn on rails" by adding a RSB considering how big and heavy it is and the fact that its a FWD car, even if you're on upgraded springs and shocks/struts. Any upgrade to our stock suspension will have drastic improvements... I replaced my SE suspension with Progress/HPs and the difference was huge. After I replaced the HPs with Illuminas, it was another step up too. If you want my opinion, the most improvement came from adding the Progress/Illuminas (with settings 3 or higher) but remember that the cost difference is huge when compared to the RSB.

**Puppetmaster** · 06-26-2005, 05:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chr0nos

For all here that have replaced their SPRINGS AND SHOCKS, did you see more improvement from the replacement, or RSB and FSTB etc. upgrades?

One more thing, I haven't tried any LTBs or Warpspeed's subframe connectors (SFC) and the SFCs could easily be more effective (although I'd think you need everything else like struts/springs, RSB, etc done as well)... but I've never tried em, so I can't say...

*BEJAY1* · 06-26-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

The other difference, which I had never noticed before (but was APPARENT when we put Joel's RSB on and my car was sitting a few fee away) is that the Stillen bar is much thicker (I'd guesstimate at least 25-35% thicker).

That said, I doubt there are many (if any) here who have used BOTH the bars on the same car (with the same "other' suspension components), so really a fair comparison is probably not possible.

Good post Puppet. Although Nissan re-designed the A33 lateral link for less oversteer it seems stiffening it up defeats their intentions.

I've run the Addco, Stillen, and Stillen knockoff on my A32 car with almost similar susp setups. I've posted on the 4th gen and racing forums about my findings. The Progress/Addco are solid bars whereas the Stillen's and knockoff's are hollow. Also the knockoff Stillen is larger than the original but has thinner wall size (guessing from weight). The stock A32/A33 trackwidth stagger is .7"-.8" wider in front than rear and I'm currently running 2.2" wider.

*mdemonte* · 06-26-2005, 08:41 AM

Nice post Puppet. How much u get the Rear anti-sway bar for? and which website?

*joebangaa* · 06-26-2005, 12:16 PM

stillens are solid.....

*chr0nos* · 06-27-2005, 05:56 AM

1. aite, i added matt blehm's stage 1 bar to the front cotrol arms. lemme tell you, what a pain. the angle would not allow the socket to go onto the nuts after putting the bar on, but after messing with it for a few hours, i got it done. the alignment is a little off after the install. this seems to help with oversteer a little, or i may be dreaming. i am going to re-tighten all of my bolts in the front and the back and take the max in for alignment today.
2. compared to the illuminas, how stiff are th hp blues? (illumina setting 2,3, or 4...)

*BEJAY1* · 06-27-2005, 05:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ighettoboyi

stillens are solid.....

Only on the outside.

**Puppetmaster** · 06-27-2005, 07:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BEJAY1

Good post Puppet. Although Nissan re-designed the A33 lateral link for less oversteer it seems stiffening it up defeats their intentions.

I've run the Addco, Stillen, and Stillen knockoff on my A32 car with almost similar susp setups. I've posted on the 4th gen and racing forums about my findings. The Progress/Addco are solid bars whereas the Stillen's and knockoff's are hollow. Also the knockoff Stillen is larger than the original but has thinner wall size (guessing from weight). The stock A32/A33 trackwidth stagger is .7"-.8" wider in front than rear and I'm currently running 2.2" wider.

Thanks for the info and feedback, Bejay...

Aren't most passenger vehicles in general designed for more understeer/less oversteer for safety reasons anyway? I don't know much about all this, but I thought I read that in a thread or article somewhere...

Btw, are there other mods than can be done to the lateral links on these cars to further improve handling?

**Puppetmaster** · 06-27-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chr0nos

2. compared to the illuminas, how stiff are th hp blues? (illumina setting 2,3, or 4...)

To me, it feels like the Tokico HPs are around the setting 2 on the Illuminas... I went from HPs to Illuminas while retaining the same springs...

**Puppetmaster** · 06-27-2005, 07:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mdemonte

Nice post Puppet. How much u get the Rear anti-sway bar for? and which website?

I think Cattman sells em for $140 and there's a Stillen imitation on eBay for $120-130... not sure where else... just Google something like "sway bar maxima" and you should see plenty of hits... or you can just do what I did and scan the 4th Gen and 5th Gen Classified forums for a used one... got mine from JDM4LIFE here on the .Org for $100 shipped...

*chr0nos* · 06-27-2005, 07:46 AM

maaan, i am undecided on HPs vs Illuminas. do you guys like illiminas because it's adjustable, or because it's a better shock overall?
i don't plan to race or autox, do you ever adjust the illuminas, or pretty much set and forget?
does setting the illumina for stiffer setting allow you to corner harder, or is it just a stiffer ride?