6th gen brakes in 5th gen..GOOD news and BAD news

*irish44j* · 02-09-2005, 03:23 PM

Well, I have some good news and some bad news..
With a warm day here, I did some brake maintenance, and while at it did a test-fit (dry run, no lines or anything) of the 2004 maxima calipers (and rotors) on my 5th gen....

First, the good:
The rotors fit fine (as we already knew, those of us with the BlehmCo kit), and SO DO THE CALIPERS. COmpletely bolt-on fit on the fifth gen. So....The good news is, we can use the 2004 rotors and calipers on our cars!

The bad news now:
The will NOT fit beneath our OEM 17" rims (and definitely not the 16's). The OEM calipers come out about 1 1/4" from the rotor face, while the 2004 calipers come out a little over 1 1/2" from the rotor face. SOOOOOO. After test-fitting everything, the wheel will not go on all the way. Damn. (and now I have 2 brand-new caliper assemblies sitting around...)

The solution:
Well there are a few, I suppose:
1. Stick with stock or the BlehmCo kit with OEM calipers
2. I'm pretty sure the OEM 17's will clear if 10mm spacers are used. Not positive, but since the 2004 17" rims have a 35mm offset (I think), and ours are what, 45mm...it is logical that a 10mm spacer will work.
3. They'd probably fit under most aftermarket 17's and 18's (including my G35 coupe rims, which had plenty of clearance...

so, if you want to do this brake exchange, get some 10mm spacers for the front wheels (if using stock 17's) or get some aftermarket rims with a 35mm or less offsett......

sorry, no pics....was rushing to do this before the rains came....

*Fezzik* · 02-09-2005, 03:25 PM

Thanks for the heads up. Good work. and keep us posted. I'm interested in this myself

Spin20 · 02-09-2005, 05:14 PM

What would be the benefit of the 04 caliper?

handsofstone · 02-09-2005, 05:51 PM

thats funny. a friend of mine put on the brembo brake kit. and the rotor was the same size as the 04 rotor. and he spent all of that money on shipping. good lookin out. i will keep my eyes open at the nissan dealership for some wrecked 04's. i have 18" wheels by the way.

*irish44j* · 02-09-2005, 06:25 PM

Spin20...the 04 rotor/caliper provides more pad area, resulting in less fade and, in theory, better braking. Plus, the larger rotor is less likely to warp, and looks nice filling up the wheel compared to our PUNY OEM rotors/calipers.

I also was struck by looking at the caliper assembly that I perhaps could mill down about 7-10mm off the outside of the housing, but unfortunately the material is just too thin I think...so looks like I will put these on AFTER the G35 18's go on, and then use spacers next winter when the 17's go back on......

schernov · 02-09-2005, 07:07 PM

What are the negative affects of using spacers?

*irish44j* · 02-09-2005, 07:17 PM

nothing really, except if they are more than 5mm or so, you need to put in longer lugs, wich is a bit of a PITA...I'll worry about that in the fall when I have to put my OEM 17's back on for the winter

*Gooey* · 02-09-2005, 08:50 PM

whered you get yoru kit from??? how much was it so i can compared with the price i can get from the dealer...my rotors look so tiny now that i got 19's on

*Ammi* · 02-09-2005, 08:53 PM

Not sure about 17"s but 2k4 18"s have 40mm offset Irish. I'm thinking 17s are either 40mm or 45mm. I'll find out.

*irish44j* · 02-09-2005, 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gooey

whered you get yoru kit from??? how much was it so i can compared with the price i can get from the dealer...my rotors look so tiny now that i got 19's on

Hey john...
I already had the 2k4 rotors (using my OEM calipers and the BlehmCo kit)....I got the calipers from DAVE B ...they were around 120 for the pair, plus I still need to get the clips and hardware, which will run another 35 or so....

I will put the kit on with my G35 rims for the summer and probably put in 15mm spacers in the front (and back so it's even) in the winter when my OEM 17's go on (did I already say that?)

*irish44j* · 02-09-2005, 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ammi

Not sure about 17"s but 2k4 18"s have 40mm offset Irish. I'm thinking 17s are either 40mm or 45mm. I'll find out.

I'm going to go buy a set of calipers (the measuring type, not brake calipers) and do some precise measurements so I know EXACTLY how much clearance I will need for the 2k4 (brake) calipers

AllGo · 02-09-2005, 09:43 PM

fyi all you 5.5 gen guys need to remember that our brake calipers/rotors are different from the 00-01. Our rotors are about ~11.75", which is about 1" larger then the earlier 5th gens. The blehmco bracket will push our calipers out too far unless the z32 calipers are used as it was designed with the shorter 00-01 caliper arms in mind.

I think the best bbk option I saw recently in another post would be to get some 04 calipers and rotors and drill out the mounting holes either on the hub or caliper so they will accept the larger bolts. You still may have issues with clearance if you are trying to use stock wheels.

*Ammi* · 02-10-2005, 12:40 AM

You were right. 2k4 17"s have 35mm offset

pharmer · 02-10-2005, 09:36 AM

Irish - is this strictly for the front rotors/calipers, or does it apply to the rear ones also?

I'd like to upgrade all 4 wheels to the Gen 6 spec if I can.

*irish44j* · 02-10-2005, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pharmer

Irish - is this strictly for the front rotors/calipers, or does it apply to the rear ones also?

I'd like to upgrade all 4 wheels to the Gen 6 spec if I can.

front only....no idea if the back would fit or not....keep in mind, with the rears, you'd also have to realign/adjust the e-brake fittings....

*SoonerFan* · 02-10-2005, 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

front only....no idea if the back would fit or not....keep in mind, with the rears, you'd also have to realign/adjust the e-brake fittings....

you just cant be happy with your stock brakes can you??

and dont you have a job?

CCS2k1Max · 02-10-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by soonerfan

and dont you have a job?

[SNL D!ck Cheney impersonation] That's classified [/SNL D!ck Cheney impersonation]

*spirilis* · 02-10-2005, 05:57 PM

Oh very nice, thanks for scoping this out irish!

My 2000 6-spoke 17x7's are 45mm for sure.

The main side-effect of installing spacers, AFAIK, is torque steer--the further out your wheels are from the center of the vehicle, the more pronounced torque steer becomes.

*irish44j* · 02-12-2005, 07:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spirilis

The main side-effect of installing spacers, AFAIK, is torque steer

hah, that's a side-effect of the VQ35 too

but I still want one!

Maximadmoiselle · 02-12-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

hah, that's a side-effect of the VQ35 too

but I still want one!

Not if you get a G35 to go with the rims

Man I haven't posted anything on here in ages, I've missed irish's creative work

*MyownNismo* · 02-12-2005, 09:12 PM

If I am not mistaking the BlehmCo kit uses stock 5th gen calipers anf not 5th gen calipers.

*irish44j* · 02-12-2005, 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyownNismo

If I am not mistaking the BlehmCo kit uses stock 5th gen calipers anf not 5th gen calipers.

oh, really, I didn't know that

(6th gen rotors with 5th gen calipers on my car)

this thread is not about the BlehmCo kit, which, as you pointed out (I think) uses our OEM calipers. This thread is about using the 6th-gen calipers (2004+) using OEM mounting positions, NOT using the Blehmco kit....

this is a 6th-gen caliper (which will soon be on my car, with the BlehmCo brackets removed.

divisions · 02-12-2005, 11:57 PM

What is needed to use the 2k4 caliper and rotor?

Is the BlehmCo. bracket no longer needed? Just a direct swap?

DAVEB · 02-13-2005, 08:15 AM

this is a 6th-gen caliper (which will soon be on my car, with the BlehmCo brackets removed.

That's actually a 2K5 caliper! I guess I didn't make that clear. As near as I can tell, the black finish (and the price!) is the only diff from 2K4.

*irish44j* · 02-13-2005, 09:00 AM

right on...thanks Dave....

divisions....not, the Blehmco bracket is not needed with the 6th gen calipers...it bolts right up to the OEM spline bolt points.

handsofstone · 02-13-2005, 11:35 AM

iguess i will be buying a set of 04 rotors and calipers.

*03BlkSETE* · 02-13-2005, 11:40 AM

Thanks for all the info irish.

MaximaPolak · 02-13-2005, 11:42 AM

Quote:

it bolts right up to the OEM spline bolt points.

Would it work for the 5.5 gen since we have a bigger rotor than stock 5th gens?

*irish44j* · 02-13-2005, 12:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaximaPolak

Would it work for the 5.5 gen since we have a bigger rotor than stock 5th gens?

well, I would think so......after all, you are also putting the bigger 6th gen rotors on as well.....but since I don't have a 5.5 gen, I can't tell you for sure that the caliper mount spline is not different.....the calipers are only $120 for a pair....somebody with a 5.5 gen get a set and try it out! (Polak)

*spirilis* · 02-13-2005, 12:27 PM

The advantages here are one of heat dissipation. Both the larger rotor and larger pads should provide protection against excessive heat, which causes warpage and fading.

BlehmCo BBK provides the use of 2k4 rotors (though they're sold separately from the kit AFAIK), but still uses the stock calipers, resulting in nearly identical pad area to the stock 5th gen setup (even slightly less actually, but not by a lot). This means the rotor is larger to hold and dissipate more heat, but the pad may still overheat (due to lack of surface area for distributing the heat) and induce material transfer (causing "warpage" of the rotor) even though you're using a larger rotor. This has happened to me once already with my BlehmCo BBK. (my 2nd set of rotors/pads, however, seem to be doing a little better... the rotors are slotted and cross-drilled, where the first configuration was not.)

Using larger pads, as you would when using the 6th gen calipers, should treat that problem, although only experimentation could tell whether it solves it.

However, if the 6th gen calipers extend the pad further inward, it may result in slightly less extra "brake torque" than the BlehmCo BBK, because BlehmCo pushes the center of the caliper further to the outside of the rotor, leaving a decent-sized strip of rotor material untouched on the inner part of the rotor face. Extending the pad further inward, so long as the caliper piston is also moved further inward, would reduce brake torque compared to using the BlehmCo kit. However, I'd imagine the 6th gen calipers' position wouldn't be any further inward than the stock 5th gen setup with stock calipers AND rotors, so you still win in this case.

*irish44j* · 02-13-2005, 12:32 PM

good explanation, sprilis. I was hoping you'd weigh in on the subject.

02-14-2005, 05:40 PM

BlehmCo kit doesnt fit 02+ at least the caliper relocation bracket is wrong.....

*irish44j* · 02-14-2005, 08:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by southernrednik

BlehmCo kit doesnt fit 02+ at least the caliper relocation bracket is wrong.....

right...we know....
for what this thread is about, you don't use a bracket. You simply put on a 6th gen rotor and bolt up the 6th gen rotor.....

the caliper mounting point is the same on the 00-01 as it is for the 02-03....

dizmax96 · 02-17-2005, 09:39 PM

i ordered my set yesterday.. i should be gettin them on monday.. now i jus need to get wheels to fit them under.. its definitely worth the money.. about 380-390 for the whole set up.. 2 calipers, 2 rotors, set of pads, and hardware.. not bad at all.. cant wait to get these suckers on.. oh yeah.. i ordered the 05 model.. goin the same direction as DaveB =P

dmitry82 · 02-18-2005, 08:03 AM

Thanks for all the info irish44j!!!

Spin20 · 02-18-2005, 11:50 AM

Irish could you have used a 300ZX caliper instead of the 04 caliper?

*irish44j* · 02-18-2005, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Spin20

Irish could you have used a 300ZX caliper instead of the 04 caliper?

you would need a different BlehmCo bracket (not the same one I have) to fit the Z calipers....they will not bolt directly to the 5th gen spindle.

check out: www.mattblehm.com

*DeusExMaxima* · 03-10-2005, 12:42 AM

Does this mean that a 5th gen big brake kit would fit on a 6th gen maxima with no problems?

*ZIPPIN* · 03-10-2005, 05:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by irish44j

I will put the kit on with my G35 rims for the summer and probably put in 15mm spacers in the front (and back so it's even) in the winter when my OEM 17's go on (did I already say that?)

for ppl who don't have the G35 wheels, to make them match, 15 in front and 20 in rear????

**Cutler** · 03-10-2005, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by -ZIPPIN-

for ppl who don't have the G35 wheels, to make them match, 15 in front and 20 in rear????

You may need longer studs too.....