Deac

THEY DO NOT WORK!!!!!

If you guys remember an earlier thread of mine where I test fitted the RC injectors for the 5th Gen, I found out that they fit fine. So we finally discovered that 00-01 5th Gens CAN get bigger injectors. The problem is that we were under the impression that the Greddy E-Manage would be able to regulate the amount of fuel being pushed out by the injectors even if you used 550cc. WRONG! They are just too big. We backed the fuel off as much as the E-manage would allow us and I was still spitting out fuel everywhere on the dyno and running really rich. That day was a nightmare. I was all excited about finally getting my car and turbo, tuned and dynoed and we got nowhere because of the injectors.
I called Greddy and they said w/the e-manage you should only go about 50% over stock on bigger injectors which would put us in about the 360cc range. Greddy also said you may be able to get away with 440cc but it wont make a difference because you will probably have to tune it back down to less than 440cc w/the e-manage anyway. So.. .back to the drawing board. I should dyno w/smaller injectors within the next week or so... I'll keep everyone posted.

Deac

K Pazzo 6

iTrader: (6)

good info to know.....props on doing this stuff

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

They could work if you used a hacked MAF setup, but as far as I know, no one with a Maxima has tried this method yet...

slimer

iTrader: (13)

what about using a z32 maf?

I know that using a z32 maf, a32 ecu, and 370 cc injectors will give you close to stock fuel delivery.

maybe using the z32 maf, a33 ecu, 440 cc and tuning with emanage might give you what you want.

i would like to see what icey, dixit and stephen max would like to say about it

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

keep the injectors. Try boring out the maf.

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

Something else you could try is to do what some Z32 guys do with two intakes that join together in a Y but only one maf on one of the legs of the intake. So you get twice the airflow than the maf is measuring.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I *TRIED* to warn ya. However, I've got RC440s I'll sell ya~! I know they work with eManage.

Also, RC550s may not be able to work due to their poor atomization MONSTER 3-hole pintle design. Even 440s are a bit rough on idle, but PE510cc or some better quality bigger injectors Dixit and I found *SHOULD* work just fine with an eManage.

Also, the MAF hack or dummy MAF setup won't make any more difference then the eManage, since they're both doing the same thing, ie lowering MAF voltage which reduces pulse-width.

One more thing, if you didn't perform an Idle Air Volume Learning procedure, it would have never had a chance at idle *IF* that's all you tried to do.

Thanks for trying though~!!!!!!

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Also, you can add an adjustable FPR and drop base fuel pressure from 34psi down to mid 20's to reduce fuel.

PharoNDmist

iTrader: (4)

Damn, sorry to hear that. What injectors are you going with now?

Deac

I've decided to go with 370cc as per Greddy's recommendation. I wanted to go 440cc but again... even if they do work w/e-manage, you'll most likely have to turn them down a few nothces to lean the car out which kinda defeats the purpose of paying the extra $$$$. So I decided to play it safe and go RC 370cc which approximately 50% over stock. Dyno on Monday.... if all goes well. stats to come that night!

Deac

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Deac,

eManage handles 440s on VQ35s at 51psi at idle, which means 476cc. We run 34psi, which means 389cc.

Even if the stock ECU wouldn't allow 389cc, you could turn down the base fuel pressure and have the FMU compensate under boost.

380cc@3-bar, BSFC = 0.60, is good for:
DC=80% 289bhp(~246whp).
DC=100% 362bhp(~307whp).

440cc@3bar, BSFC = 0.60, is good for
DC=80% 335bhp(~285whp).
DC=100% 419bhp(~356.19whp).

BigDogJonx

iTrader: (7)

I dont fully understand this then. I know plenty of people who are running in excess of 100% larger than stock on not only DSMs, Rexs, Evos, and Maximas.

Ive been told time and time again it can handle 150% OVER stock.

Take Thomas (sx7r) who is flawlessly running 555cc injectors with the eManage.

So sorry if I dont understand what the problem here is.

Dixit

HitManSE

iTrader: (1)

Well, thats good to know. Hope you work your problems out man.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I think at least 5th gens *MUST* perform an Idle Air Volume Learning Procedure ANYTIME they make major changes in airflow/fuelflow/timing near idle. Our ECUs are picky SOBs and must relearn the new air/fuel/advance/retard or it's going to get confused and go into open-loop safe mode and dump a **** load of fuel, ie inject TWICE vs. once per complete engine cycle.

Until you guys learn that, you're going to be limited on how far you can push the envelope with the stock ECU before you *MUST* go standalone.

I *WISH* I had these kind of problems to figure out, since it's not really that hard and just takes some logical thinking, a hell of a lot of research, and trial-n-error tinkering.

Good luck Deac, but I think you could have got them to work with a little more tinkering/adjustment.

Deac

I wish I knew more about the formulas behind air/fuel and fuel pressure etc but I dont. I'm trying to learn but I leave that stuff to the tuners. The shop that is tuning my car is in NJ and is very reputable. The owner's Supra was the featured car in TURBO MAGAZINE and dynoed 712 whp w/just piggy back apexi's (SAFC, RSM, BOOST CONTROLLER) etc... he does not believe in standalones and says that if you can stand to keep the stock ECU, DO IT! Car companies have spent millions to perfect a cars ECU and taking it away, even though you may get more overall HP, better a/f, the car is never quite the same in the other aspects without the stock ECU. The feel of the car is never the same. For guys like us IMO who are not trying to build all out race cars, piggy-backs are fine AND E-MANAGE cnl do "alot" of the things a standalone can do. ANYWAY.... like I posted before, the GREDDY techs told me to go 370cc and I did. I dont know why the 550's didnt worK exactly but they didnt. How much fuel pressure do we need on the stock block anyway? To have the capability to use it is one thing but how much of the actual capacity is really used on a stock block after proper tuning is another thing! I dont think i"ll be missing out on much if anything at all.... remember this is an improvement for 00-01 guys for goodness sake!!! I'm content with the fact that I have bigger injectors!!1 Dyno results later tonight.

Deac

cobymoby

iTrader: (2)

I agree with your tuner that stand alone is not neccesary on all non-factory turbo charged applications but it all depends on what your goals are. If you have a car and want to bump up power say 50-75%, an piggy back will do just fine. Going stand alone is a total waste if your stock ECU can handle it. But if you plan to go way past what stock was meant to handle, you'd better go stand alone in the begining. All your black boxes will begin fighting eachother for controll and you'll have a mess of alphabet soup to deal with.

Your tuner knew what he was doing, knew what the power goals were, what the limits were on your sytems and built into the capacities of your setup.

Your numbers are fantastic!!! Congrats!!!

Regards,
Bryan

Deac

I'm very happy w/my numbers. Everyone says that 550cc were overkill anyway. I got alot of sarcastic comments when they found out I had those in anyway. Many of the guys there running alot more power than I was didnt even have 550's. You live and learn I guess. I'm glad I went 370cc and I know the guys knew how to tune. I'd recommend no more than 440 to anyone tuning in the future.

Deac

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

What kind of numbers are you looking for? If your looking for 400+ hp you need 555's. Some people have said they have been able to run 720's with the emanage.

stephenlc

iTrader: (1)

They just think you can not get that kind of power out of a maxima.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I just think it all depends on safety factor, but at what IMO is a somewhat max safe 80psig:

290cc-->393cc ~345whp@80%DC, ~431whp@100%DC
370cc-->501cc ~440whp@80%DC, ~551whp@100%DC
440cc-->596cc ~524whp@80%DC, ~655whp@100%DC
550cc-->745cc ~655whp@80%DC, ~818whp@100%DC


Any idea what fuel pressure you're seeing Deac?

turbo97SE

iTrader: (3)

Mr IceY2K1 just gave you a big clue as to how to possibly make the 550 cc run in your application. If you lower the static fuel pressure using an adjustable fuel pressure regulator and combine this with an FMU, you might be able to get your car to idle as well as still get full range for the 550cc injectors when in boost. Unless you have the internals for it though, you probably won't need the full range though.

For people thinking of going even bigger in spite of this, the stock fuel rail is the next limiter and can't flow more than 550cc per injector anyway!

Lastly 80psig is something I would agree with even though I have run over 120 psig, I don't recommend it!