IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Anybody got this or thinking about it?

http://www.stillen.com/brakepros_det...d=36896&page=1



If it was a 2pc rotor and fit under OEM 17s, I'd be all over it.

Still sounds like a decent deal. How do you think this compares to the other <$1K kits out there?

Igor911

iTrader: (10)

I was looking at this setup with my brother the other day

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

You know who has the best price on this.

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

Oh and it should fit the stock 17s with a wheel spacer that you can get with the kit.

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

Have you guys considered the SSBC kit?

For less than $800 you can opt for either a 12" or 13" kit.

chigga

iTrader: (2)

do u have a link to their site and know of anyone that has these soundmike?
forget it heres the link for everyone: SSBC

soundmike

iTrader: (24)

You're quick

Anyway, you can purchase the kit from JCWhitney.com (search by brand, Stainless Steel Brake Company, 4th link down then find the Maxima application).

Then apply this code during checkout to get 15% off: ATGN683

Shipping should be free.

chigga

iTrader: (2)

thats lovely it comes to 6 and change, how good are these soundmike?? how have you been anyway?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

That's interesting.

I'm looking for an upgrade, but nothing extreme. I'd like it to fit under the stock 17s, but I know that's difficult.

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=291150

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Thanks, but I want something from a company that's liable if something bad were to happen...at least on the fronts. I'd go with Matts' rear kit though.

Plus, I want a shorter stopping distance then stock and I don't like the 300Z caliper option.

Colonel

My guess is your cheap azzz dont bust out da mulah for some nice rims...you be S.O.L.

Whats your issues with the Z calipers?

ChillWill2000

http://www.stainlesssteelbrakes.com/...xima&year=2000

This kit aint lookin to shabby

Quicksilver

iTrader: (1)

SSBC stuff looks pretty decent to me. Fronts are 12" by 1" for 2002-2003 Maximas...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I'll get rims, but too picky to settle on <$3K ones, so I'm SOL for awhile. Hoping to win lottery or I'll just stay OEM. Actually, wifey will notice rims and be like WTF.... So, stockers until she gets a new ride.

Z calipers = poop IMO.

Colonel

Guess we will have to see what my testing shows wont we?

UMD_MaxSE

iTrader: (1)

hmmm.... SSBC brakes look interesting... I am going to need new brakes soon... plus I have 18's already so...

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yeah, I'm needing new tires AND brakes soon, so hopefully you and Colonel help me decide.

I've seen SSBC in the mags a lot lately, so they seem to be becoming popular.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ah what's wrong with the 4 piston aluminum calipers? Because the Z had crap performance? Considering the stock Z32 rotor is about the same size as a 3.0 liter maximas, I'm not suprised. But these calipers behind a set of 13" rotors and see what happens.
I did, these things haul down like an anchor. I really need to upgrade the backs.

That stillen kit looks to use only a Ford Cobra style aluminum TWO piston caliper. For $1k, you are not really getting much. 1 pc rotors, probably the oem style Ford pbr 2 piston calipers(ie.. 98+ Cobras etc), ss lines? And one expensive caliper relocating bracket.

If I were you I'd just go with a set of 12.6"-ish 2k4 rotors, Matt's relocating bracket and your stock calipers or 2k4 calipers? Probably the best upgrade for cost/wheel clearance.

Colonel

Any thoughts on testing stock/versus Matts Kit. This is for my edification mostly proving I get better stopping versus having cool calipers....

I HAVE to believe that I get better stopping, but I kinda want some good ideas on stopping to prove some black and white facts.

BTW, what about BIAS, how much do I have to worry about that?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

I don't have Matt's kit. I have my own kit. 13" Cobra rotors, my own relocation bracket, ss lines and polished Z calipers. Trust me, braking is incredible. TOO good. Need some bigger brakes in the back to REALLY make this system work.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Show me the numbers~! I can't drive your car, so I don't have a comparison, but from the cost of them/work involved retrofitting, I'd rather get a complete package BRAND NEW for roughly $200 more. It's not worth the $$$$ for used/rebuilt 300Z calipers plus they just look antiquated IMO. I'd rather have something more modern and at least designed with our MBC/ABS in mind. Maybe Colonels' testing will show what they can really do and I'll change my mind.

Thanks. It looked pretty wimpy to me, but just wondering how it stacks up to the Wilwood and other sub $1K systems.

I want SHORTER stopping, definitely NOT increased stopping. The increased torque arm length will help some, but will it offset the added weight of the 2K4 rotors? I know all the other benefits of Matts' setup, but inorder to get noticeably shorter stops, I'll need upgraded calipers too. Just not wanting 300Z calipers. Maybe Willwoods or something might work with Matts' relocation bracket? Hmmmn.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

ICY, take a look at the bbk kits out there. 2/4/6 piston. Do you really think ANY of these really have your MC/ABS in mind?

IMHO, a bigger rotor with a stock caliper would probably do much better in the brake distance arena than a big caliper and a stock sized rotor(ie.. 300z calipers on a milled rotor so it fits onto the stock ears. Every opinion I've read on this last method yielded mostly the same opinion. Better brake FADE resistance but not much in the stopping distance.
Don't know what you mean by antiquated design. These things are 4 piston and make out of aluminum. What more do you want? How more "modern" do you want to get?

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yes, the more expensive ones like AP, Brembo, even not so expensive Wilwoods and from the sound of their propaganda Stillens new kit.

Why do you think that? Agree, definitely don't like the opinions on 300Z caliper/stock mount/milled rotor setups.

I'm concerned about how the 300Z piston size/design vs MBC volume/capacity/pressure output. These are NEVER going to be as good as a complete engineered system for my stock MBC. Due to the stock MBC and larger pistons, pedal travel suffers for sure with the 300Z calipers. Also, the 300Z calipers just look "old" and I've *READ* they flex a bit. You're just not going to convince me that they can compare to the stronger/lighter new calipers.

That's why I'm interested in Stillens' new kit. Yeah, it may not be near the performance of the higher dollar kits, but it's better then stock and looks good IMO. Kind of like a wantabe GT3 or Baer kit IMO.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

If you are stuck on a XX sized master cylinder, you are limited to the size/# of pistons you can use in your setup. Since the Z pistons are only 4 vs some huge 6 piston kits out there, I think they are fine. Plus, the Z MC is only slightly larger. 1-1/16" vs my 15/16" or 1". My pedal travel is increased. But it's barely noticable. Anytime you increase the piston surface area the hydraulics have to push, pedal travel WILL increase. No way around it.

Spend the bucks and get what you want. I'm totally happy with my setup. BTW. Take a look at how many different kits use the same exact caliper. You would think if these kits are so carefully engineered, they would have a different caliper/piston sizes for each application. It's clear that some fudging is done so they can use the same caliper in many different applications.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yes, but they can vary the caliper piston size/location/design/number. Other factors besides MC size like size lines, distance of lines, caliper/rotor distance, etc. on the Z could be quite different even though the MC piston size is similar? Pad contact area can be improved? Agree on the piston surface area, however with the 300Z calipers you're stuck with only one size/increase in travel. Companies can vary the number/size pistons to find a happy medium. Yes, they only have subset of possible caliper combinations, but it can't be that complicated to match.

AM companies can decrease stopping distance while balancing inital bite, pedal travel, and pedal pressure needed with properly tuned system using the stock MBC. With the 300Z, it's only one choice and from the sound of it NOT that great. Like I said, I don't know how good/bad the 300Z calipers work with our stock MBC vs. any of the AM companies.

Agree, but are they better then the 300Z caliper? I'd bet so.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Put it this way. My 300z calipers increase pedal travel slightly. So let's assume it's the biggest one should do. Since you want NO increase pedal travel, you can only choose a smaller piston or less pistons.
MBC: You won't be changing these so no matter.
Brake line size. Umm you are going to change all the hard brake lines in your car? Probably not. So you are stuck there.
You won't be going over 6 piston. Not w/o major changes and not without spending BIG dineros.

You can do with some name brand BBK caliper if you wish. What happens when you have to change pads? What happens when you have to rebuild the calipers? The big $ spending doesn't stop at the purchase of the kit.

I also find it curious that you are concerned about proper sizing when that Stillen kit seems to use standard PBR oem calipers originally designed for a Ford.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Yes, along with smaller/lighter rotors. Bigger is not always better.

From the sound of Kevs' experience and a couple others, pedal travel and the amount of braking effort changed was dramatic. Maybe you're just used to it now.

No, my point was just because the MC is similar, doesn't mean the rest of brake system is.

Not all pistons or caliper designs are equal. Just because the Z caliper has 4 pistons, that doesn't mean it's the just as good as any other.

Agreed. That's acceptable to me though. Pads aren't a concern, since I don't wear them that often. If I raced, maybe. Rebuild? Not in my ownership period UNLESS something is malfunctioning.

Que? That's why I'm asking if anyone has them or was thinking of trying them.

However, if Stillen says they're "designed to work with OE Master Cylinder and ABS system", then they're lible if they don't, right? That's better then if my home-made or Matts' nicely made kit **** up. Plus, I'd bet they're better matched/flex less then the 300Z calipers designed 10yrs. ago with our Maxima MBC/lines/ABS system. Now, for SSBC, I'm still looking into what they're doing.

People, including myself, talk **** about Stillen, however until they cranked out the poop headers, they've always made good/quality products. Yes, you pay more for it. Only peoples experiences and some test data will know for sure.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

What's the price Steve? What size spacer and how much additional is that?

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

No, it's just not that big of a difference.

No to you. What ELSE dictates it? Plus I have every reason to believe that the 300z brake lines are VERY similar in diameter. In fact, most cars use a common line size(or as close as a sae/metric would get). So what's left? Nothing.

A different design might be STIFFER. And some calipers might use different sized pistons but that's about all the difference there is. And because you haven't stated these specific differences, I'll assume it's the basic design structure you are referring to. And if that is the case, please explain the different design structures and how a different design would be better/worse than let's say a Nissan 300z 4 piston/aluminum type would be.


Pad will be a concern as soon as you need a new set.


You only ask if someone has TRIED it. So that means you are CONSIDERING it. But why are you even CONSIDERING it, when you dismiss other designs as inferior? When in fact, this "kit" is probably just a set of standard parts that were made to fit a maxima. Not originally designed around a maxima. ie.. Calipers originally designed for a Ford, put in a kit for a Nissan. To me the kit is fine(just not for the price) design-wise. But not to you(or it shouldn't be according to your other logic)

Uh, yeah. Unless something SERIOUSLY fails, you won't be having ANY luck suing Stillen.

I say "whatever". The only thing Stillen "made" in this kit is the adaptor bracket. All the other parts were from other sources. Just like 95% of the the other products Stillen sells.

MyownNismo

iTrader: (13)

And the only thing Matt made was a bracket. If your worrried about the bracket breaking then you go and get it hardened. Matt's kit is to stop warpping rotors cause our rotors are to small. I have had my stillen rotors for a year and there warped.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Proportioning, ABS, length of tubing, weight of car, unsprung wheel/rotor weight, angle of contact, weight transfer of car/suspension dive, etc. Lots of unknowns. Point being, MBC piston diameter is not only difference between 300Z and our cars' stock braking system.

Better calipers design/location, pad/rotor engagement, less flex, just a few that come to mind.

Not really, they cross reference with most AM brake pad manufacturers such as Hawk for a Pontiac Firebird and others. If you're referencing price, it's not a concern to pay more.

If you re-read the first post, that's not true. Simply looking for discussion on if anybody was considering them and/or had them.

Considering it, is relative. More like DISCUSSING it. Yes, standard parts designed and tested, I'm sure. Baer calipers with who knows rotors, Goodridge lines, and Stillens brackets. Price is within $150 of Matts' kit and for me, it's worth the cost for new vs rebuilt and somebody being liable if those brackets were to fail.

Baer makes several calipers, Stillen picks the best match for our car. You picked 300Z calipers, which is only one possibility and from the sound of it, not perfect. Just looking for something better.

My "logic" is to find an alternative to a homemade kit that was reasonably engineered/tested for the Maxima or at least liable if it wasn't for a reasonable price, ie sub $1K.

That's EXACTLY the point. If they break and I can't brake causing an accident/injury, you better believe Stillens' azz is on the line. You think Matts' is? No. You think your insurance company will cover an accident where your homemade kit failed? No, not if they want to get ugly and they can.

Agreed. However, making brackets, making sure fit/quality are perfect is one thing they're good for especially when it comes to brakes. Ever heard of an AP brake kit complaint? I haven't.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

I understand Matts' purpose and it's great for that, however it doesn't matter WHAT you do, there's still the possibility that something can break/go wrong and I'm not willing to take that financial risk over $100-$150. Call it cheap insurance.

I've had my stock rotors for 3yrs/30K miles and they're not, so the additional mass of the 13" rotors alone should extend that, so that's not a concern. Replacing rotors every 3yrs. is fine, since pads are due anyways.

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

Ah yeah. Again, which of these will you be swapping on your car?? Nothing! All of those things except the rotor, you will be stuck with. Length of tubing?

Design? Let me know when you come up with some hard facts on that. Location? Uh explain that one. Flex? Again need some data if you are going to make that type of statement.

If it was a 2pc rotor and fit under OEM 17s, I'd be all over it

This is not considering it?

Baer? Better read this pdf file: http://www.stillen.com/specs/30-8000info.pdf
Clearly states PBR. Which I've stated, probably OEM for FORD. So I'm not sure how much "testing" was done.

Again Baer? Do they own PBR? Stillen more likely used what would fit and what would bring their price point down. It's much more likely that these oem Ford calipers just happened to "work" with the maxima. It's not like Stillen got with PBR and spec'd out piston size, hydraulic requirements and had a special set made just for them. Because I'm pretty sure that would up the price point above the $1,000 sale price.

So IMHO, this "kit" is not better thought out than mine. ESPECIALLY when Stillen also offers 4 piston kits with NO MC change. How could that be?

Do you really think you have a chance at suing Stillen in real life? ONLY if you can show some type of obvious failure. I'd also review their warranty/guarantees if you are hinging on this fact so heavily. For something like brake parts, I'm sure Stillen has their butt covered in the puchase contract/warranty etc.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

Matt's brackets included in his kit are made out of steel, whereas the stillen bbk and brembo gt kits are made from aluminum (IIRC).

Possibility wise, the likely hood of the steel brackets giving out is very rare.

Colonel

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Again, point being not same, so similar MBC isn't only concern.

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?threadid=124860

You got any? Nope. Can you prove they don't? Nope.

Nope, they're not available that way and they're the only offering other then Wilwoods(that I knew of). Now that it's been pointed out SSBC are available, I don't know if I'd say that again.

Yep, look similar?


You don't think they actually tried more then one on a Maxima? Do you think they just threw the kit together without trying them on a car? Don't think so. Most likely, guessing here, they ordered up a few different calipers and tried them to see what worked best. Maybe not though.

You and I don't know until someone tries them. Otherwise, it's a guess. Kit is designed together. Rotor size to the calipers ability minimum. How did you choose rotor size? Whatever fit?

4-pistons with less flex, better pad engagement = more clamping force PLUS two piece rotors are lighter so less unsprung weight to slow down.

Of course. Their faulty product, you better believe they're done. I don't see any RACE USE only, in fact they market it as a street car kit. Lawyer would have a field day with their "contract/warranty".

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Brembo kits have been thoroughly tested, no doubt whatever they do makes them plenty strong. Otherwise, nobody would use them in racing.

Stillen on the other hand , but they're liable if they do break, Matts' not(business/asset wise).

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

Yea, i understand what your trying to say. I'm just trying to say that a aluminum brackets is more likely to give out before one made of high strength steel.

we've had socal members running the 3000gt vr-4 upgrade also made with steel brackets during track days and day to day applications with no problems. Those brackets are custom made also by who knows who

Jeff92se

iTrader: (82)

My point being is Stillen just put together a set of readily available production parts to fit onto a maxima for about $1,000. No special design considerations from what I see were done. Price point and fitment took priority over specific design concerns. "good enough" for the price is how I would call it.

I chose the 13" rotor size because someone with a Z32 used these rotors/calipers to significantly improve their braking performance. In his case, the only difference was larger rotors. In my case, it's larger rotors/4 piston calipers vs ONE piston type. I "think" peformance is much improved. Also considering I actually run this setup is another factor. ie.. 1/2 the pedal pressure normally used to stop the car, now results in all occupants choking themselves on their seatbelts

I also contend that the all aluminum 300z 4 piston calipers are very close to performance to any of the other calipers on the market. Close enough to not feel a difference in anything less than significant track use. And on a maxima, other design flaws would rear their ugly head before the slight stiffness differences would.

If you want to purchase this kit on the basis that a lawyer would bail you out, go right ahead. I assume you already reviewed their purchase and liability clauses. You must have extensive experience in the arena of suing companies to be so bold right? If not, that's one big assumption you are making. Even if you did "happen" to have a case, do you really think you could get the case settled within 2-3 years? If you win, do you really think there would be no appeal? Let's say you win the appeal, how long do you think it would take Stillen actually pay any type of $? Within 6-8 years?