HLSD is broken! *video*
11-01-2003, 03:36 PM
#1
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HLSD is broken! *video*
Some of you may recall my original thread here http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=259541
After going to the dealer and having them tell me the car was behaving normal I set about to prove them wrong. After talking to my dad (a Mechanical Engineer) and SR20DEN we came up with a test. Here are the results.
http://www.poweredbynissan.com/video.../hlsd_divx.avi
Thanks to SR20DEN for hosting the video and remember not to try this as home.
After going to the dealer and having them tell me the car was behaving normal I set about to prove them wrong. After talking to my dad (a Mechanical Engineer) and SR20DEN we came up with a test. Here are the results.
http://www.poweredbynissan.com/video.../hlsd_divx.avi
Thanks to SR20DEN for hosting the video and remember not to try this as home.
11-01-2003, 04:14 PM
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Originally Posted by wantasupra3
OMG! How much is that going to cost..any warranty?
Good luck!
Good luck!
11-01-2003, 07:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Maximam
Are you going to have Nissan do that test to get them to fix it?
11-01-2003, 09:46 PM
#9
Good luck having Nissan fix it. I lost my trans at 15k miles, they said that it was not under warranty and that the dealer would have to pay for it. When I called Nissan last week they told me that I no longer have a warranty from Nissan on the powertrain. BTW, I only have 39k on my car, what BS, ba bye Nissan, hello Honda. Chris
11-01-2003, 10:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Newman
what are we seeing? i dont think i totally understand the functions of the LSD.
the wheel that is stopped by the 2x4 takes a long time to get back up to speed. is that the problem?
the wheel that is stopped by the 2x4 takes a long time to get back up to speed. is that the problem?
You can read more about differentials here http://auto.howstuffworks.com/differential.htm
The video shows that the differential is "open".
When I stopped the wheel the other spun 2x as fast. This is a open differential situation.
The other key is that I was able to stop a wheel with virtually no effort. Even at 1500 and 2000RPM it stopped with very little effort from me on that board. The engine didn't seem like it was making any attempt to resist my slowing that wheel. In 1st gear at 2000RPM there should be a lot of torque on tap trying to fight me, but I got none. As I understand it, with a HLSD when I started to apply force to the one tire trying to slow it with the plank, the other tire should have slowed with it as the engine began to put torque to the wheel I was loading. But that didn't happen.
11-01-2003, 11:07 PM
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Originally Posted by 2k2wannabe
I thought lsd only worked when the wheels were under torque...if that's true then your test with the wood is not valid.
No matter what, I hope you can get nissan to fix whatever problem you're having.
No matter what, I hope you can get nissan to fix whatever problem you're having.
A wheel on ice and a wheel in the air are pretty similar in terms of tractive, resistive force I'd think. Regardless, the tire I was trying to stop should have put up some level of a fight (especially if I can get wheel hop with 1 tire on ice and 1 on pavement).
Interestingly enough there was a slight shimmy in the wheel when you would hold it stopped. It was like something was trying to apply some torque to it, but something wasn't catching or grabbing.
11-02-2003, 07:02 AM
#13
Originally Posted by 2k2wannabe
I thought lsd only worked when the wheels were under torque...
if that's true then your test with the wood is not valid.
11-02-2003, 04:12 PM
#15
Originally Posted by 02VQ35
Good luck having Nissan fix it. I lost my trans at 15k miles, they said that it was not under warranty and that the dealer would have to pay for it. When I called Nissan last week they told me that I no longer have a warranty from Nissan on the powertrain. BTW, I only have 39k on my car, what BS, ba bye Nissan, hello Honda. Chris
11-02-2003, 04:58 PM
#16
I dont think this is that big of a deal for nissan to fix. I just got my 5spd tranny and me and Jay25 took the diff out in about 10mins. If the LSD is broke as we can see in the video, they should be able to reaplce/repair the diff fairly quickly. If they got a LSD sitting there or have to order one, then then can install that in about 2hrs and then get the tranny in there.
Its not as bad as people make it seem. Yea nissan will charge a pretty penny but if its under warranty its not bad at all.
Dixit
Its not as bad as people make it seem. Yea nissan will charge a pretty penny but if its under warranty its not bad at all.
Dixit
11-02-2003, 05:18 PM
#17
Originally Posted by Stereodude
Some of you may recall my original thread here http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=259541
After going to the dealer and having them tell me the car was behaving normal I set about to prove them wrong. After talking to my dad (a Mechanical Engineer) and SR20DEN we came up with a test. Here are the results.
http://www.poweredbynissan.com/video.../hlsd_divx.avi
Thanks to SR20DEN for hosting the video and remember not to try this as home.
After going to the dealer and having them tell me the car was behaving normal I set about to prove them wrong. After talking to my dad (a Mechanical Engineer) and SR20DEN we came up with a test. Here are the results.
http://www.poweredbynissan.com/video.../hlsd_divx.avi
Thanks to SR20DEN for hosting the video and remember not to try this as home.
Yep, that is absolutely one broke d1ck LSD unit. I should know...I had the same thing happen in my truck when it went out (POS)...
11-02-2003, 05:54 PM
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oh wonderful 
broken HLSD, eh? Is HLSD the type of LSD that wears out? I thought I read somewhere that eventually the mechanical type HLSDs would wear out and eventually behave as an open differential. You said it felt like something was trying to catch but wasn't? Something else I read said that a VLSD would not wear out but were higher maintenance because they need the fluid changed or something and are not as good for performance because they're not as fast acting.
I think I read this on some Toyota truck site when I was trying to learn about the different types of AWD/4WD systems and differential setups awhile ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Is it possible for an HLSD to wear out, and if so, should other Maxima owners expect the same? God I hope not.
broken HLSD, eh? Is HLSD the type of LSD that wears out? I thought I read somewhere that eventually the mechanical type HLSDs would wear out and eventually behave as an open differential. You said it felt like something was trying to catch but wasn't? Something else I read said that a VLSD would not wear out but were higher maintenance because they need the fluid changed or something and are not as good for performance because they're not as fast acting.
I think I read this on some Toyota truck site when I was trying to learn about the different types of AWD/4WD systems and differential setups awhile ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Is it possible for an HLSD to wear out, and if so, should other Maxima owners expect the same? God I hope not.
11-02-2003, 07:03 PM
#20
Originally Posted by SteVTEC
oh wonderful
broken HLSD, eh? Is HLSD the type of LSD that wears out? I thought I read somewhere that eventually the mechanical type HLSDs would wear out and eventually behave as an open differential. You said it felt like something was trying to catch but wasn't? Something else I read said that a VLSD would not wear out but were higher maintenance because they need the fluid changed or something and are not as good for performance because they're not as fast acting.
I think I read this on some Toyota truck site when I was trying to learn about the different types of AWD/4WD systems and differential setups awhile ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Is it possible for an HLSD to wear out, and if so, should other Maxima owners expect the same? God I hope not.
broken HLSD, eh? Is HLSD the type of LSD that wears out? I thought I read somewhere that eventually the mechanical type HLSDs would wear out and eventually behave as an open differential. You said it felt like something was trying to catch but wasn't? Something else I read said that a VLSD would not wear out but were higher maintenance because they need the fluid changed or something and are not as good for performance because they're not as fast acting.
I think I read this on some Toyota truck site when I was trying to learn about the different types of AWD/4WD systems and differential setups awhile ago. Correct me if I'm wrong, though.
Is it possible for an HLSD to wear out, and if so, should other Maxima owners expect the same? God I hope not.
I think THIS is the same type of diff as the HLSD, with the gears being cut in a helical style vs. straight cut. I'm not sure, as I am an auto...
11-02-2003, 07:53 PM
#21
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If the HLSD is using clutches then I'm pretty sure it's the type that can "wear out" and that they will eventually revert back to an open differential once the clutches wear out and until they're replaced. When I was reading about this stuff before on this Toyota gearhead site, I was wondering if the Maxima HLSD would wear out and eventually revert back to open-diff style like they were describing for the clutch type LSDs but since I hadn't heard of anybody's HLSD crapping out yet I didn't think anything of it.
uh-oh.
Well I hope this is just some flukey mechanical issue and not actual clutches wearing out. If it is in fact clutches then that means that probably everybody with an HLSD is going to have to deal with this eventually or just say to hell with it and not care. Not cool. But it would be sooooooooooo Nissan to put a feature in a car but then cheese out completely on the parts/quality such that it doesn't last as long as it ought to. Just look at all of the 4th gen guys with these bloody $100 knock sensors failing. Ridiculous.
Good luck Stereodude - I know you'll keep us posted.
*subscribed*
uh-oh.
Well I hope this is just some flukey mechanical issue and not actual clutches wearing out. If it is in fact clutches then that means that probably everybody with an HLSD is going to have to deal with this eventually or just say to hell with it and not care. Not cool. But it would be sooooooooooo Nissan to put a feature in a car but then cheese out completely on the parts/quality such that it doesn't last as long as it ought to. Just look at all of the 4th gen guys with these bloody $100 knock sensors failing. Ridiculous.
Good luck Stereodude - I know you'll keep us posted.
*subscribed*
11-02-2003, 08:35 PM
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver
I think THIS is the same type of diff as the HLSD, with the gears being cut in a helical style vs. straight cut. I'm not sure, as I am an auto...
http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page61.htm
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm
11-02-2003, 08:40 PM
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Originally Posted by SteVTEC
If the HLSD is using clutches then I'm pretty sure it's the type that can "wear out" and that they will eventually revert back to an open differential once the clutches wear out and until they're replaced. When I was reading about this stuff before on this Toyota gearhead site, I was wondering if the Maxima HLSD would wear out and eventually revert back to open-diff style like they were describing for the clutch type LSDs but since I hadn't heard of anybody's HLSD crapping out yet I didn't think anything of it.
uh-oh.
Well I hope this is just some flukey mechanical issue and not actual clutches wearing out. If it is in fact clutches then that means that probably everybody with an HLSD is going to have to deal with this eventually or just say to hell with it and not care. Not cool. But it would be sooooooooooo Nissan to put a feature in a car but then cheese out completely on the parts/quality such that it doesn't last as long as it ought to. Just look at all of the 4th gen guys with these bloody $100 knock sensors failing. Ridiculous.
Good luck Stereodude - I know you'll keep us posted.
*subscribed*
uh-oh.
Well I hope this is just some flukey mechanical issue and not actual clutches wearing out. If it is in fact clutches then that means that probably everybody with an HLSD is going to have to deal with this eventually or just say to hell with it and not care. Not cool. But it would be sooooooooooo Nissan to put a feature in a car but then cheese out completely on the parts/quality such that it doesn't last as long as it ought to. Just look at all of the 4th gen guys with these bloody $100 knock sensors failing. Ridiculous.
Good luck Stereodude - I know you'll keep us posted.
*subscribed*
11-02-2003, 09:19 PM
#24
Originally Posted by Stereodude
Negative. It's not a clutch type differential. It's a Automatic Torque Biasing Differential that uses Helical gears. They're very similar to what's typically sold as a Quaife.
http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page61.htm
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm
http://www.quaife.co.uk/catalogue/page61.htm
http://www.roadraceengineering.com/quaife.htm
Like I said, I don't really know 'cause I have the auto
11-03-2003, 05:38 AM
#25
Originally Posted by 02VQ35
Good luck having Nissan fix it. I lost my trans at 15k miles, they said that it was not under warranty and that the dealer would have to pay for it. When I called Nissan last week they told me that I no longer have a warranty from Nissan on the powertrain. BTW, I only have 39k on my car, what BS, ba bye Nissan, hello Honda. Chris
Good luck with your honda dude. For the record, Honda's break more tannies then Nissans do. Look at the TL/CL/Accord Crowd and their Auto/Joystick transmisson.
11-03-2003, 06:18 AM
#26
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Originally Posted by Stereodude
Per my understanding... and all the research I did online, they don't wear out anymore so than any other part of the actual tranny. They're not clutch type. I think mine should be a fluke. Considering I don't have any power mods and I don't drag it at the track or anything I'm somewhat confused why it's not functioning.
11-03-2003, 06:33 AM
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Update:
The car is back at the dealer. The tech didn't seem all that happy with my video. He did point out that the service advisor screwed up and put, "Check traction control. When one side of vehicle is on wet grass and the other side has good traction it feels like the wheels are spinning without traction" for the decription last time. So, as he explained the car doesn't have traction control ( duh ) so basically they ignored the complaint.
Now, they have the car again. They'll be calling Nissan at 8:00AM PST when they open for business to see if there is documentation or testing procedures to see if they can verify on their own that the HLSD is bad. They won't tear into the tranny and I'll get the car back today. They'll order the parts needed to fix it and fix it in a day once they get the parts. Now the complication is that I'm going to Asia on Thursday for 11 days, so this could take a while.
I'll keep everyone posted.
The car is back at the dealer. The tech didn't seem all that happy with my video.
He did point out that the service advisor screwed up and put, "Check traction control. When one side of vehicle is on wet grass and the other side has good traction it feels like the wheels are spinning without traction" for the decription last time. So, as he explained the car doesn't have traction control ( duh ) so basically they ignored the complaint.Now, they have the car again. They'll be calling Nissan at 8:00AM PST when they open for business to see if there is documentation or testing procedures to see if they can verify on their own that the HLSD is bad. They won't tear into the tranny and I'll get the car back today. They'll order the parts needed to fix it and fix it in a day once they get the parts. Now the complication is that I'm going to Asia on Thursday for 11 days, so this could take a while.
I'll keep everyone posted.
11-03-2003, 07:09 AM
#29
Originally Posted by Stereodude
Update:
The car is back at the dealer. The tech didn't seem all that happy with my video. He did point out that the service advisor screwed up and put, "Check traction control. When one side of vehicle is on wet grass and the other side has good traction it feels like the wheels are spinning without traction" for the decription last time. So, as he explained the car doesn't have traction control ( duh ) so basically they ignored the complaint.
Now, they have the car again. They'll be calling Nissan at 8:00AM PST when they open for business to see if there is documentation or testing procedures to see if they can verify on their own that the HLSD is bad. They won't tear into the tranny and I'll get the car back today. They'll order the parts needed to fix it and fix it in a day once they get the parts. Now the complication is that I'm going to Asia on Thursday for 11 days, so this could take a while.
I'll keep everyone posted.
The car is back at the dealer. The tech didn't seem all that happy with my video.
He did point out that the service advisor screwed up and put, "Check traction control. When one side of vehicle is on wet grass and the other side has good traction it feels like the wheels are spinning without traction" for the decription last time. So, as he explained the car doesn't have traction control ( duh ) so basically they ignored the complaint.Now, they have the car again. They'll be calling Nissan at 8:00AM PST when they open for business to see if there is documentation or testing procedures to see if they can verify on their own that the HLSD is bad. They won't tear into the tranny and I'll get the car back today. They'll order the parts needed to fix it and fix it in a day once they get the parts. Now the complication is that I'm going to Asia on Thursday for 11 days, so this could take a while.
I'll keep everyone posted.
Hell I had a chic Audra call me at 7:30 at night so she can confirm my address to send me a refund check for somthing my Local Nissan dealer jacked me on.
11-03-2003, 09:17 AM
#30
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Originally Posted by PIONEER
Last time I called Nissan their Hours were 7:30am - 8:00pm EST
Hell I had a chic Audra call me at 7:30 at night so she can confirm my address to send me a refund check for somthing my Local Nissan dealer jacked me on.
Hell I had a chic Audra call me at 7:30 at night so she can confirm my address to send me a refund check for somthing my Local Nissan dealer jacked me on.
11-03-2003, 10:03 AM
#31
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Update 2: The local dealer called and says it doesn't have a HLSD, but the Torsen-Gleason Gear something or other. "The video shows the transmission behaving normally"
So, I called the dealer in Canada who I bought it from who informed me it indeed has a HLSD. According to his computer system (Nissan's) all Canandian market 6 speed Maxima's built 12/01 and later have the HLSD. Mine was built on 12/25/2001 and as a result has the HLSD.
So... I called the local dealer and gave them that bit of information. They're going to call Nissan in California once the tech gets back from lunch and try to sort this all out.
So, I called the dealer in Canada who I bought it from who informed me it indeed has a HLSD. According to his computer system (Nissan's) all Canandian market 6 speed Maxima's built 12/01 and later have the HLSD. Mine was built on 12/25/2001 and as a result has the HLSD.
So... I called the local dealer and gave them that bit of information. They're going to call Nissan in California once the tech gets back from lunch and try to sort this all out.
11-03-2003, 04:01 PM
#33
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Update 3:
*drumroll*
Per the dealer... According to the Nissan Technical Support Center in California only shows the RS6F51A as the only available transmission for the 2002 Maxima. There are no other trannies. "That is what your car has. We ran the VIN."
So, basically they're telling me, "Not only does your car not have the HLSD, it doesn't exist!"
Keep in mind both Nissan Canada and dealer in Canada where I bought it (401 Dixie) insist the car has a HLSD.
So, I go to the dealer get the car. Take my keys go out to the car, pop the hood and sure enough... The metal plate on the firewall says "RS6F51H". So, I go drag the service advisor out to my car and point this out to them. They're going to look into it tomorrow.
MORONS!
ps. The RS6F51H is the Helical unit.
*drumroll*
Per the dealer... According to the Nissan Technical Support Center in California only shows the RS6F51A as the only available transmission for the 2002 Maxima. There are no other trannies. "That is what your car has. We ran the VIN."
So, basically they're telling me, "Not only does your car not have the HLSD, it doesn't exist!"
Keep in mind both Nissan Canada and dealer in Canada where I bought it (401 Dixie) insist the car has a HLSD.
So, I go to the dealer get the car. Take my keys go out to the car, pop the hood and sure enough... The metal plate on the firewall says "RS6F51H". So, I go drag the service advisor out to my car and point this out to them. They're going to look into it tomorrow.
MORONS!
ps. The RS6F51H is the Helical unit.
11-03-2003, 04:08 PM
#34
Originally Posted by Stereodude
Update 3:
*drumroll*
Per the dealer... According to the Nissan Technical Support Center in California only shows the RS6F51A as the only available transmission for the 2002 Maxima. There are no other trannies. "That is what your car has. We ran the VIN."
So, basically they're telling me, "Not only does your car not have the HLSD, it doesn't exist!"
Keep in mind both Nissan Canada and dealer in Canada where I bought it (401 Dixie) insist the car has a HLSD.
So, I go to the dealer get the car. Take my keys go out to the car, pop the hood and sure enough... The metal plate on the firewall says "RS6F51H". So, I go drag the service advisor out to my car and point this out to them. They're going to look into it tomorrow.
MORONS!
ps. The RS6F51H is the Helical unit.
*drumroll*
Per the dealer... According to the Nissan Technical Support Center in California only shows the RS6F51A as the only available transmission for the 2002 Maxima. There are no other trannies. "That is what your car has. We ran the VIN."
So, basically they're telling me, "Not only does your car not have the HLSD, it doesn't exist!"
Keep in mind both Nissan Canada and dealer in Canada where I bought it (401 Dixie) insist the car has a HLSD.
So, I go to the dealer get the car. Take my keys go out to the car, pop the hood and sure enough... The metal plate on the firewall says "RS6F51H". So, I go drag the service advisor out to my car and point this out to them. They're going to look into it tomorrow.
MORONS!
ps. The RS6F51H is the Helical unit.
It's so hard to maintain any kind of cool when dealing with these morons, otherwise known as Nissan Service. They also insist that my can doesn't have the "hesitation" problem even though both the service tech and I have experienced it, and my ECU # falls into the "Needs to be re-programmed" range on their TSB...
11-03-2003, 05:30 PM
#35
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Originally Posted by Quicksilver
Man, I really feel for you...
It's so hard to maintain any kind of cool when dealing with these morons, otherwise known as Nissan Service. They also insist that my can doesn't have the "hesitation" problem even though both the service tech and I have experienced it, and my ECU # falls into the "Needs to be re-programmed" range on their TSB...
It's so hard to maintain any kind of cool when dealing with these morons, otherwise known as Nissan Service. They also insist that my can doesn't have the "hesitation" problem even though both the service tech and I have experienced it, and my ECU # falls into the "Needs to be re-programmed" range on their TSB...
Here's a picture of the plate under the hood showing the "non-existant" tranny code. Supposedly the Tech read the code off the actual tranny as "RS6F51A".
I'll have to scan the repair notes I got today saying my car did not have a HLSD. Yes, that's right, I have it in writing.
11-03-2003, 08:28 PM
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11-03-2003, 10:30 PM
#40
I want to know where it says RS6F51A on the tranny. I have never seen the full code stamped on any Nissan tranny.
I did notice that the ESM does not list the helical unit.
What was their reaction to that 2002 press release I dug up?
http://www.nissannews.com/nissan/200...ma/index.shtml
"For the first time on Maxima, a close-ratio 6-speed manual will be standard on SE models (available 10/01). This transmission optimizes the powerband of the new 3.5-liter engine and is geared towards the serious driving enthusiast. A helical limited-slip differential is optional on manual transmission Maximas (available 12/01). This mechanical differential is torque sensitive and provides instantaneous locking for increased traction and performance."
I did notice that the ESM does not list the helical unit.
What was their reaction to that 2002 press release I dug up?
http://www.nissannews.com/nissan/200...ma/index.shtml
"For the first time on Maxima, a close-ratio 6-speed manual will be standard on SE models (available 10/01). This transmission optimizes the powerband of the new 3.5-liter engine and is geared towards the serious driving enthusiast. A helical limited-slip differential is optional on manual transmission Maximas (available 12/01). This mechanical differential is torque sensitive and provides instantaneous locking for increased traction and performance."