Intakes and Dynos
03-02-2003, 05:20 PM
#1
Newbie - Just Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13
Intakes and Dynos
Sorry in advance for the length, but...
I've given myself a headache sifting through hundreds of posts regarding intakes on 5th Gen Maximas. So far I've found 1 good post that actually talks about real dyno numbers comparing stock, WAI and CAI intakes.(Thanks Studman...kudos)http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=192990
I, personally would like to optimize performance, but I don't care about "sounding cool". If I get a little sound as a side effect of a proven performance mod, then great. As long as it doesn't sound obnoxious, I'm happy. With this, and Studman's post in mind:
Does anyone else have dyno numbers that either help prove or disprove Studman's findings? To me, it looks like removing the factory airbox and adding either a WAI or CAI simply leaves you with lightened wallet and some extra noise under the hood.
This raises a few questions. (for me anyway)
1. Can the stock airbox be improved to reduce turbulance and improve airflow?
2.In addition to a more free-flowing drop-in filter Could I replace the rubber accordian style pipe with a mid-pipe from Frankencar or others?
3. Does the fact that I have the Cattman Y and B pipes increase the need for more air on the intake end?
4. Is there any other point on the OEM intake system that does not lend itself to sufficent airflow?
5. Does Studman's Findings prove that the factory intake (as is) is just as good as any $150-$300 intake mod out there.
I know people are probably getting sick of intake related discussion, but it frustrating to base a mod decision on people that have spent $200 + and then writing posts about how much faster their cars' feel and how much harder they pull. I'm sure if I spent that much money, I'd feel those extra ponnies too, even though they may not be there.
It would be cool to keep this thread clear of butt-dyno results as it would pretty much defeat its purpose. Thanks guys.
I've given myself a headache sifting through hundreds of posts regarding intakes on 5th Gen Maximas. So far I've found 1 good post that actually talks about real dyno numbers comparing stock, WAI and CAI intakes.(Thanks Studman...kudos)http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....hreadid=192990
I, personally would like to optimize performance, but I don't care about "sounding cool". If I get a little sound as a side effect of a proven performance mod, then great. As long as it doesn't sound obnoxious, I'm happy. With this, and Studman's post in mind:
Does anyone else have dyno numbers that either help prove or disprove Studman's findings? To me, it looks like removing the factory airbox and adding either a WAI or CAI simply leaves you with lightened wallet and some extra noise under the hood.
This raises a few questions. (for me anyway)
1. Can the stock airbox be improved to reduce turbulance and improve airflow?
2.In addition to a more free-flowing drop-in filter Could I replace the rubber accordian style pipe with a mid-pipe from Frankencar or others?
3. Does the fact that I have the Cattman Y and B pipes increase the need for more air on the intake end?
4. Is there any other point on the OEM intake system that does not lend itself to sufficent airflow?
5. Does Studman's Findings prove that the factory intake (as is) is just as good as any $150-$300 intake mod out there.
I know people are probably getting sick of intake related discussion, but it frustrating to base a mod decision on people that have spent $200 + and then writing posts about how much faster their cars' feel and how much harder they pull. I'm sure if I spent that much money, I'd feel those extra ponnies too, even though they may not be there.
It would be cool to keep this thread clear of butt-dyno results as it would pretty much defeat its purpose. Thanks guys.
03-02-2003, 05:30 PM
#2
Re: Intakes and Dynos
Originally posted by cmb7
1. Can the stock airbox be improved to reduce turbulance and improve airflow?
2.In addition to a more free-flowing drop-in filter Could I replace the rubber accordian style pipe with a mid-pipe from Frankencar or others?
3. Does the fact that I have the Cattman Y and B pipes increase the need for more air on the intake end?
4. Is there any other point on the OEM intake system that does not lend itself to sufficent airflow?
5. Does Studman's Findings prove that the factory intake (as is) is just as good as any $150-$300 intake mod out there.
I know people are probably getting sick of intake related discussion, but it frustrating to base a mod decision on people that have spent $200 + and then writing posts about how much faster their cars' feel and how much harder they pull. I'm sure if I spent that much money, I'd feel those extra ponnies too, even though they may not be there.
It would be cool to keep this thread clear of butt-dyno results as it would pretty much defeat its purpose. Thanks guys.
1. Can the stock airbox be improved to reduce turbulance and improve airflow?
2.In addition to a more free-flowing drop-in filter Could I replace the rubber accordian style pipe with a mid-pipe from Frankencar or others?
3. Does the fact that I have the Cattman Y and B pipes increase the need for more air on the intake end?
4. Is there any other point on the OEM intake system that does not lend itself to sufficent airflow?
5. Does Studman's Findings prove that the factory intake (as is) is just as good as any $150-$300 intake mod out there.
I know people are probably getting sick of intake related discussion, but it frustrating to base a mod decision on people that have spent $200 + and then writing posts about how much faster their cars' feel and how much harder they pull. I'm sure if I spent that much money, I'd feel those extra ponnies too, even though they may not be there.
It would be cool to keep this thread clear of butt-dyno results as it would pretty much defeat its purpose. Thanks guys.
2 - I dont think the Frankencar midpipe would fit where the accordian piece is, but I could be wrong.
3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this.
5 - The stock airbox is pretty restrictive and way overdone. The ghetto airbox mod brings a lot more air into the intake though.
6 - The stock airbox, cut at the top, I'm sure is just as effective as any other aftermarket intake.
I love my Frankencar and I recommend it to anyone.
The ghetto airbox mod doesnt look all that great at all, but its practical. In the end the difference in almost all the intakes will be 2-3 hp at the most. Hope this helps some. To see the Ghetto airbox mod I'm talking about go to www.cardomain.com/id/2k2_6spd
03-02-2003, 07:52 PM
#3
Re: Re: Intakes and Dynos
Originally posted by Y2KSESteve
1 - You can cut a hole in the top of the airbox just before the filter and make a ghetto airbox intake. 2k2_6spd has this and is the 2nd 2k2 6 speed maxima to trap over a 100 mph in the quarter mile behind Emax.
2 - I dont think the Frankencar midpipe would fit where the accordian piece is, but I could be wrong.
3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this.
5 - The stock airbox is pretty restrictive and way overdone. The ghetto airbox mod brings a lot more air into the intake though.
6 - The stock airbox, cut at the top, I'm sure is just as effective as any other aftermarket intake.
I love my Frankencar and I recommend it to anyone.
The ghetto airbox mod doesnt look all that great at all, but its practical. In the end the difference in almost all the intakes will be 2-3 hp at the most. Hope this helps some. To see the Ghetto airbox mod I'm talking about go to www.cardomain.com/id/2k2_6spd
1 - You can cut a hole in the top of the airbox just before the filter and make a ghetto airbox intake. 2k2_6spd has this and is the 2nd 2k2 6 speed maxima to trap over a 100 mph in the quarter mile behind Emax.
2 - I dont think the Frankencar midpipe would fit where the accordian piece is, but I could be wrong.
3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this.
5 - The stock airbox is pretty restrictive and way overdone. The ghetto airbox mod brings a lot more air into the intake though.
6 - The stock airbox, cut at the top, I'm sure is just as effective as any other aftermarket intake.
I love my Frankencar and I recommend it to anyone.
The ghetto airbox mod doesnt look all that great at all, but its practical. In the end the difference in almost all the intakes will be 2-3 hp at the most. Hope this helps some. To see the Ghetto airbox mod I'm talking about go to www.cardomain.com/id/2k2_6spd
03-02-2003, 10:28 PM
#4
Re: Re: Re: Intakes and Dynos
Originally posted by slickrick
by doing the "ghetto" mod, will that void my warranty?
by doing the "ghetto" mod, will that void my warranty?
03-02-2003, 10:46 PM
#5
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this. Removing the accordian tubing won't generate gains that are measurable, but it will do harm. The accordian tubing is there to isolate the intake from the TB itself. Because the MAF is connected to whichever intake you have, none of the vibration from the TB transfers to the intake. If you remove the accordian piece and replace it with one from PR or FC then what you are doing is basically transferring the vibration from the TB/engine to the intake/MAF sensor. The MAF sensor is VERY sensitive to vibration and oil, and should be handled with extreme care. The last replacement price that I got for a 2002-2003 MAF was $388.60 from a dealership who gives discounts to .org members. I've been told that the prices may have dropped since then, but the point still remains.
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
2.In addition to a more free-flowing drop-in filter Could I replace the rubber accordian style pipe with a mid-pipe from Frankencar or others?
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
03-02-2003, 10:54 PM
#6
Originally posted by studman
Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this. Removing the accordian tubing won't generate gains that are measurable, but it will do harm. The accordian tubing is there to isolate the intake from the TB itself. Because the MAF is connected to whichever intake you have, none of the vibration from the TB transfers to the intake. If you remove the accordian piece and replace it with one from PR or FC then what you are doing is basically transferring the vibration from the TB/engine to the intake/MAF sensor. The MAF sensor is VERY sensitive to vibration and oil, and should be handled with extreme care. The last replacement price that I got for a 2002-2003 MAF was $388.60 from a dealership who gives discounts to .org members. I've been told that the prices may have dropped since then, but the point still remains.
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this. Removing the accordian tubing won't generate gains that are measurable, but it will do harm. The accordian tubing is there to isolate the intake from the TB itself. Because the MAF is connected to whichever intake you have, none of the vibration from the TB transfers to the intake. If you remove the accordian piece and replace it with one from PR or FC then what you are doing is basically transferring the vibration from the TB/engine to the intake/MAF sensor. The MAF sensor is VERY sensitive to vibration and oil, and should be handled with extreme care. The last replacement price that I got for a 2002-2003 MAF was $388.60 from a dealership who gives discounts to .org members. I've been told that the prices may have dropped since then, but the point still remains.
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
03-03-2003, 06:08 AM
#7
Newbie - Just Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13
[QUOTE]Originally posted by studman
[B]Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Thanks for your thoughts on the mid-pipe replacement, makes perfect sense. I had heard that the OEM tubing here was a major restriction and therefore was the only reason I posed the question of a better alternative. As for being a newbie and needing abreviations, Not all of us are unfamilier with tech discussion and abreviations. The fact that I'd been reading so many threads generated by newbies who say "what is the best intake to buy" was the main purpose I generated this thread in the first place...I think I might have even used a few abreviations Thanks for all the leg work though. Definitely appreciated.
[B]Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Thanks for your thoughts on the mid-pipe replacement, makes perfect sense. I had heard that the OEM tubing here was a major restriction and therefore was the only reason I posed the question of a better alternative. As for being a newbie and needing abreviations, Not all of us are unfamilier with tech discussion and abreviations. The fact that I'd been reading so many threads generated by newbies who say "what is the best intake to buy" was the main purpose I generated this thread in the first place...I think I might have even used a few abreviations
Thanks for all the leg work though. Definitely appreciated.
03-03-2003, 06:11 AM
#8
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 344
Originally posted by studman
Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this. Removing the accordian tubing won't generate gains that are measurable, but it will do harm. The accordian tubing is there to isolate the intake from the TB itself. Because the MAF is connected to whichever intake you have, none of the vibration from the TB transfers to the intake. If you remove the accordian piece and replace it with one from PR or FC then what you are doing is basically transferring the vibration from the TB/engine to the intake/MAF sensor. The MAF sensor is VERY sensitive to vibration and oil, and should be handled with extreme care. The last replacement price that I got for a 2002-2003 MAF was $388.60 from a dealership who gives discounts to .org members. I've been told that the prices may have dropped since then, but the point still remains.
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
Since you are a newbie, I'll include abbreviations here.
PR = Place Racing (manufacturer)
FC = Frankencar (manufacturer)
CAI = Cold Air Intake
WAI = Warm Air Intake
TB = Throttle Body
MAF = Mass Air Flow Sensor
Now, on with my reply to your question:
I strongly recommend AGAINST doing this. Removing the accordian tubing won't generate gains that are measurable, but it will do harm. The accordian tubing is there to isolate the intake from the TB itself. Because the MAF is connected to whichever intake you have, none of the vibration from the TB transfers to the intake. If you remove the accordian piece and replace it with one from PR or FC then what you are doing is basically transferring the vibration from the TB/engine to the intake/MAF sensor. The MAF sensor is VERY sensitive to vibration and oil, and should be handled with extreme care. The last replacement price that I got for a 2002-2003 MAF was $388.60 from a dealership who gives discounts to .org members. I've been told that the prices may have dropped since then, but the point still remains.
I was using the PR CAI and had a knocking sound when I had the PR's tube installed. I replaced PR's rubber tube with the stock accordian tube and all was good. No knocking. And yes, I did blow a MAF with the PR CAI on the car with the PR tube installed.
Visit my homepage and click on my car to see the PR CAI installed. You'll notice that the entire CAI is installed, but I just used the accordian rubber tubing where the upper CAI pipe meets the TB. That solved the knocking and vibration problem completely.
Now, as for people who have a WAI, this may not be as much of an issue. It depends on how they brace the WAI to the car. Some leave it braced only by the TB and the engine (bad in my opinion). Others brace it using brackets provided by the manufacturer of the WAI. And still others use zip ties, ghetto wiring jobs, etc to support the WAI. It's up to you to determine which works best for you. But I'd highly recommend that you isolate the engine vibration from the MAF.
Here's my set up. I got a Frankencar pipe, but it's attached to a stock accordion pipe, which is attached to the TB. FC pipe is attached to the MAF tube. I have a K&N filter attached to the MAF and all is help to the body with an aluminum bracket. FC pipe comes with a hard rubber tube to be attached to the TB. But I felt that engine vibration with the securely held in place intake can not be good for either MAF or TB. IMO any intake you choose keep the accordion tube.
03-03-2003, 06:52 AM
#9
My warranty has not been voided, nor has it been an issue. The Magnussen-Moss act allows you to use whatever OEM replacement filters you want. But regardless, I have had zero MAF problems, and I think the best thing you can do is ditch the baffle between the MAF and TB. That's the only real benefit of an aftermarket intake. I have seen countless cars on the dyno suck a filter so hard that it collapses, this is a common problem with the imports, because the little 7" cone that works great on a Civic, cannot flow enough CFM to support a big engine. You really need a 9-12" cone if you want to make the most power from a short ram. If you don't believe me, get your car dynoed and watch the filter, see if it holds up. If it starts to distort, then it is restricting the engine. The best way to solve this issue tho' is to attatch a vacuum guage to your engine, with a stock, modified stock, and aftermarket intake. If you can go WOT see zero vacuum, then there is no restriction there. It is an easy test.
03-03-2003, 01:08 PM
#10
Member
Join Date: Feb 2003
Posts: 50
Originally posted by 2K2_6spd
My warranty has not been voided, nor has it been an issue. The Magnussen-Moss act allows you to use whatever OEM replacement filters you want. But regardless, I have had zero MAF problems, and I think the best thing you can do is ditch the baffle between the MAF and TB. That's the only real benefit of an aftermarket intake. I have seen countless cars on the dyno suck a filter so hard that it collapses, this is a common problem with the imports, because the little 7" cone that works great on a Civic, cannot flow enough CFM to support a big engine. You really need a 9-12" cone if you want to make the most power from a short ram. If you don't believe me, get your car dynoed and watch the filter, see if it holds up. If it starts to distort, then it is restricting the engine. The best way to solve this issue tho' is to attatch a vacuum guage to your engine, with a stock, modified stock, and aftermarket intake. If you can go WOT see zero vacuum, then there is no restriction there. It is an easy test.
My warranty has not been voided, nor has it been an issue. The Magnussen-Moss act allows you to use whatever OEM replacement filters you want. But regardless, I have had zero MAF problems, and I think the best thing you can do is ditch the baffle between the MAF and TB. That's the only real benefit of an aftermarket intake. I have seen countless cars on the dyno suck a filter so hard that it collapses, this is a common problem with the imports, because the little 7" cone that works great on a Civic, cannot flow enough CFM to support a big engine. You really need a 9-12" cone if you want to make the most power from a short ram. If you don't believe me, get your car dynoed and watch the filter, see if it holds up. If it starts to distort, then it is restricting the engine. The best way to solve this issue tho' is to attatch a vacuum guage to your engine, with a stock, modified stock, and aftermarket intake. If you can go WOT see zero vacuum, then there is no restriction there. It is an easy test.
Well obviously I guess car engines (even our venerable VQ35) just hasn't reached that level of performance in factory design, you still have to think carefully about mods like the intake to see whether they actually "improve" performance.
Y2KSESteve mentioned that "3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this." [ALL AFTERMARKET performance manufacturers seems to ASSUME that.]
I believe this is true only when you know for sure that the bottleneck for performance are the intake or the exhaust. It could be the cams or the intake port to the combustion chamber that simply does not allow more air to flow in to the combustion chamber so no matter how much you "unrestrict" the factory airbox you are not going to gain anymore HP. Also, I believe it's not entirely true that the faster you can get air out of your engine the better. The exhaust backpressure is there to ensure low rpm and mid range performance. I had a straight-thru pipe on my 91 GSXR750 and you do gain HP at higher rpm but at the expense of mid range, and the thing is loud as hell.
Someone mentioned that a ghetto airbox runs really good quarter mile times. Yes in that case the mod did help.
03-03-2003, 05:43 PM
#11
Originally posted by rocktboy
Y2KSESteve mentioned that "3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this." [ALL AFTERMARKET performance manufacturers seems to ASSUME that.]
I believe this is true only when you know for sure that the bottleneck for performance are the intake or the exhaust. It could be the cams or the intake port to the combustion chamber that simply does not allow more air to flow in to the combustion chamber so no matter how much you "unrestrict" the factory airbox you are not going to gain anymore HP. Also, I believe it's not entirely true that the faster you can get air out of your engine the better. The exhaust backpressure is there to ensure low rpm and mid range performance. I had a straight-thru pipe on my 91 GSXR750 and you do gain HP at higher rpm but at the expense of mid range, and the thing is loud as hell.
Someone mentioned that a ghetto airbox runs really good quarter mile times. Yes in that case the mod did help.
Y2KSESteve mentioned that "3 - The more air you can get into your engine the better, and the faster you can get it out of your engine the better. Each mod helps this." [ALL AFTERMARKET performance manufacturers seems to ASSUME that.]
I believe this is true only when you know for sure that the bottleneck for performance are the intake or the exhaust. It could be the cams or the intake port to the combustion chamber that simply does not allow more air to flow in to the combustion chamber so no matter how much you "unrestrict" the factory airbox you are not going to gain anymore HP. Also, I believe it's not entirely true that the faster you can get air out of your engine the better. The exhaust backpressure is there to ensure low rpm and mid range performance. I had a straight-thru pipe on my 91 GSXR750 and you do gain HP at higher rpm but at the expense of mid range, and the thing is loud as hell.
Someone mentioned that a ghetto airbox runs really good quarter mile times. Yes in that case the mod did help.
03-03-2003, 06:40 PM
#12
If you don't want the sound, just get an MAF adapter+K&N filter. It sounds just like a drop in filter and the sound just gets slightly more bassy with exhaust mods, but never intrusive. Otherwise, I really can't justify the extra noise from a mid-pipe for like an extra 1-2HP.
03-03-2003, 07:23 PM
#13
I have dynoed both the "short ram" and the ghetto ram, and the short ram made 209hp 233tq, and the ghetto ram made 212hp and 233tq again. My friend also has a 2k2 with the ghetto ram, and a cattman catback and he put down 226hp and 246tq, with a STOCK airbox. You gotta think that some engineer spent countless hours developing that airbox to make it flow and be quiet.
03-03-2003, 08:34 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 102
Great, so what I gather from all this is that I just wasted near $200 on a worthless mod that just makes my car sound louder at higher rpm? Why doesn't Steve from FC chime in on this thread? Anyone represent Injen on this board? Place-Racing? Its amazing that we're willing to sue Nissan over 15 missing horses from the 3.5's and yet we quietly sit on our duffs while the aftermarket performance mod makers rape us with their overstated gain claims. I guess these guys are right up there with "Tornado-Air".
03-03-2003, 08:59 PM
#15
Originally posted by Lonz
Great, so what I gather from all this is that I just wasted near $200 on a worthless mod that just makes my car sound louder at higher rpm? Why doesn't Steve from FC chime in on this thread? Anyone represent Injen on this board? Place-Racing? Its amazing that we're willing to sue Nissan over 15 missing horses from the 3.5's and yet we quietly sit on our duffs while the aftermarket performance mod makers rape us with their overstated gain claims. I guess these guys are right up there with "Tornado-Air".
Great, so what I gather from all this is that I just wasted near $200 on a worthless mod that just makes my car sound louder at higher rpm? Why doesn't Steve from FC chime in on this thread? Anyone represent Injen on this board? Place-Racing? Its amazing that we're willing to sue Nissan over 15 missing horses from the 3.5's and yet we quietly sit on our duffs while the aftermarket performance mod makers rape us with their overstated gain claims. I guess these guys are right up there with "Tornado-Air".
03-05-2003, 02:48 PM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 102
Originally posted by 2K2_6spd
You live and you learn, if you are really that concerned, go back to the dyno and see what your $$$ got you. Sometimes the 50 bucks for a dyno tune is the best money you can spend.
You live and you learn, if you are really that concerned, go back to the dyno and see what your $$$ got you. Sometimes the 50 bucks for a dyno tune is the best money you can spend.
03-05-2003, 03:58 PM
#17
2k2 6speed
I looked at your picture of your ghetto airbox on your homepage and think I'd would like to give that a try. Did you happen to do a write up on this? The pictures are great but for the mechanically challenged like me a write up would help alot.
Thanks
I looked at your picture of your ghetto airbox on your homepage and think I'd would like to give that a try. Did you happen to do a write up on this? The pictures are great but for the mechanically challenged like me a write up would help alot.
Thanks
03-06-2003, 12:47 AM
#18
Originally posted by 03BlkSETE
2k2 6speed
I looked at your picture of your ghetto airbox on your homepage and think I'd would like to give that a try. Did you happen to do a write up on this? The pictures are great but for the mechanically challenged like me a write up would help alot.
Thanks
2k2 6speed
I looked at your picture of your ghetto airbox on your homepage and think I'd would like to give that a try. Did you happen to do a write up on this? The pictures are great but for the mechanically challenged like me a write up would help alot.
Thanks
03-06-2003, 03:03 AM
#19
Originally posted by Y2KSESteve
All you gotta do is cut the top of the intake above the filter just like in his pic.
All you gotta do is cut the top of the intake above the filter just like in his pic.
03-06-2003, 06:39 AM
#20
Originally posted by 03BlkSETE
It looks like he did more than that. He has a crank case filter, the large plastic piece between the engine cover and the accordian piece is missing, and it looks like he extended the accordian piece with that purplish piece (sorry, don't know exact names. I thought he also fashioned a cold air scoop under the airbox?
It looks like he did more than that. He has a crank case filter, the large plastic piece between the engine cover and the accordian piece is missing, and it looks like he extended the accordian piece with that purplish piece (sorry, don't know exact names. I thought he also fashioned a cold air scoop under the airbox?
03-06-2003, 06:48 AM
#21
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 816
Originally posted by 2K2_6spd
If you don't believe me, get your car dynoed and watch the filter, see if it holds up. If it starts to distort, then it is restricting the engine. The best way to solve this issue tho' is to attatch a vacuum guage to your engine, with a stock, modified stock, and aftermarket intake. If you can go WOT see zero vacuum, then there is no restriction there. It is an easy test.
If you don't believe me, get your car dynoed and watch the filter, see if it holds up. If it starts to distort, then it is restricting the engine. The best way to solve this issue tho' is to attatch a vacuum guage to your engine, with a stock, modified stock, and aftermarket intake. If you can go WOT see zero vacuum, then there is no restriction there. It is an easy test.
I've since did your mod and it feels alot better.
03-06-2003, 07:08 AM
#23
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2001
Posts: 816
Originally posted by 2K2_6spd
Cool! Glad to hear it. The ghetto ram is going world wide!!
Cool! Glad to hear it. The ghetto ram is going world wide!!
03-06-2003, 07:20 AM
#24
Originally posted by 02MaximaSE
although i didnt cut the top off, i just attached the filter with clips and removed the filter housing, and made sure it was properly filtered. And i didnt remove the stock mid-pipe, wasnt sure what to do there, and how did u attach the mini filter to the engine breather?
although i didnt cut the top off, i just attached the filter with clips and removed the filter housing, and made sure it was properly filtered. And i didnt remove the stock mid-pipe, wasnt sure what to do there, and how did u attach the mini filter to the engine breather?
03-06-2003, 09:29 AM
#25
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 259
Great thread guys!
I too had been very curious as to the effectiveness of an aftermarket intake vs. a modified stock intake.
Just a few things on my mind.
1) what does the accordian thing do between the TB and MAF, other than reduce the vibration to the MAF?
I want to believe that the design of this piece is great for buffing the vibrations, but is bad for air flow? So would the ideal thing to do here is replace this piece with a more flexible, but streamline piece? This may be a combination of a shorter mid-pipe and "softer" clamps on each side?
2) modified airbox vs. aftermarket cone
Are open cone filters more effective than modified airboxes? Is the difference possibly due to the fact that the modified airbox shields the engine's hot air and the cone absorbs the hot air. Also, by modifying the OEM airbox, you are reducing the restriction of one opening to three opening (top, bottom, and OEM opening) thus eliminating (reducing) the advantage of the open filter, but also gaining the advantage of the "heat-shield".
Does this make sense?
I too had been very curious as to the effectiveness of an aftermarket intake vs. a modified stock intake.
Just a few things on my mind.
1) what does the accordian thing do between the TB and MAF, other than reduce the vibration to the MAF?
I want to believe that the design of this piece is great for buffing the vibrations, but is bad for air flow? So would the ideal thing to do here is replace this piece with a more flexible, but streamline piece? This may be a combination of a shorter mid-pipe and "softer" clamps on each side?
2) modified airbox vs. aftermarket cone
Are open cone filters more effective than modified airboxes? Is the difference possibly due to the fact that the modified airbox shields the engine's hot air and the cone absorbs the hot air. Also, by modifying the OEM airbox, you are reducing the restriction of one opening to three opening (top, bottom, and OEM opening) thus eliminating (reducing) the advantage of the open filter, but also gaining the advantage of the "heat-shield".
Does this make sense?
03-06-2003, 03:10 PM
#26
Newbie - Just Registered
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jan 2003
Posts: 13
Originally posted by 2k2max
Great thread guys!
I too had been very curious as to the effectiveness of an aftermarket intake vs. a modified stock intake.
Just a few things on my mind.
1) what does the accordian thing do between the TB and MAF, other than reduce the vibration to the MAF?
I want to believe that the design of this piece is great for buffing the vibrations, but is bad for air flow? So would the ideal thing to do here is replace this piece with a more flexible, but streamline piece? This may be a combination of a shorter mid-pipe and "softer" clamps on each side?
2) modified airbox vs. aftermarket cone
Are open cone filters more effective than modified airboxes? Is the difference possibly due to the fact that the modified airbox shields the engine's hot air and the cone absorbs the hot air. Also, by modifying the OEM airbox, you are reducing the restriction of one opening to three opening (top, bottom, and OEM opening) thus eliminating (reducing) the advantage of the open filter, but also gaining the advantage of the "heat-shield".
Does this make sense?
Great thread guys!
I too had been very curious as to the effectiveness of an aftermarket intake vs. a modified stock intake.
Just a few things on my mind.
1) what does the accordian thing do between the TB and MAF, other than reduce the vibration to the MAF?
I want to believe that the design of this piece is great for buffing the vibrations, but is bad for air flow? So would the ideal thing to do here is replace this piece with a more flexible, but streamline piece? This may be a combination of a shorter mid-pipe and "softer" clamps on each side?
2) modified airbox vs. aftermarket cone
Are open cone filters more effective than modified airboxes? Is the difference possibly due to the fact that the modified airbox shields the engine's hot air and the cone absorbs the hot air. Also, by modifying the OEM airbox, you are reducing the restriction of one opening to three opening (top, bottom, and OEM opening) thus eliminating (reducing) the advantage of the open filter, but also gaining the advantage of the "heat-shield".
Does this make sense?
03-06-2003, 04:38 PM
#27
Originally posted by cmb7
You pose a good question. No doubt, the ghetto airbox allows more air to enter the airbox. What I'm getting from your question is: Does the benifit of added airflow outweigh the dis-advantage of sucking in more more hot air from under the hood. It would appear from the few dynos we've seen on this thread that the ghetto airbox does seem to add a few HP. Whether 2 HP is worth the ugliness of it lies with you. I'm still waiting for some more creative thoughts and some added empiracle evidence.
You pose a good question. No doubt, the ghetto airbox allows more air to enter the airbox. What I'm getting from your question is: Does the benifit of added airflow outweigh the dis-advantage of sucking in more more hot air from under the hood. It would appear from the few dynos we've seen on this thread that the ghetto airbox does seem to add a few HP. Whether 2 HP is worth the ugliness of it lies with you. I'm still waiting for some more creative thoughts and some added empiracle evidence.
Neither do $300.00 intakes 
Mine is kinda ugly because it was the first one I ever did, the ones I did later look alot better, I didn't cut them with a die grinder.
03-06-2003, 06:30 PM
#28
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Charlotte, NC
Posts: 1,687
WAI First Impressions:
Being that I've only got 75 miles on my WAI so far, I'm not overly impressed with it's performance compared to the CAI. However, it's slightly noticable over stock. As for the noise levels, the CAI is the loudest, the WAI is in the middle, and the stock is the quietest. The dyno will be done in the next couple of days (as soon as I hit the 200 mile mark). Then the results will be in.
As for my Y/B/Cat setup, it will arrive on Saturday. Hopefully I'll get the WAI dyno'd, put on the Y/B/Cat, revert to CAI, and get the ECU reset before I leave Tuesday night for D.C. I'm planning to post the dyno results of the WAI A.S.A.P. I won't have the dyno results for the Y/B/Cat setup until I return from D.C.
Being that I've only got 75 miles on my WAI so far, I'm not overly impressed with it's performance compared to the CAI. However, it's slightly noticable over stock. As for the noise levels, the CAI is the loudest, the WAI is in the middle, and the stock is the quietest. The dyno will be done in the next couple of days (as soon as I hit the 200 mile mark). Then the results will be in.
As for my Y/B/Cat setup, it will arrive on Saturday. Hopefully I'll get the WAI dyno'd, put on the Y/B/Cat, revert to CAI, and get the ECU reset before I leave Tuesday night for D.C. I'm planning to post the dyno results of the WAI A.S.A.P. I won't have the dyno results for the Y/B/Cat setup until I return from D.C.
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4th Generation Maxima (1995-1999)
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