johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

very good dyno, send the to steve by email (DMB) And as for the previous question about suing for giving us too much torque? Are you serious or is that a smart *** comment? Because it seems that the only thing they were correct on was calculating the torque, and in some cases it's low as well.......

Larry

I've already faxed my dyno to the lawyer...

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

yes you did and i thank you

BioMaxDDS

iTrader: (1)

steve, is there any update on this?
tia

Larry

Here's an example of how Dodge has rated their 5.9 engine. This is not an effort to promote Dodge trucks by any means but only as reference as to how their engine is rated verses our 2K2 Maxima's.

This is a dyno of my automatic 5.9 2001 Dodge Ram with 265 miles back on 02/07/01. This engine is factory rated at 245 hp and 335 pounds of torque.

Drive train losses calculate 16.9% for hp and 14.8% for torque based on their rated values. Keep in mind this truck has a big differential and a heavy duty transmission. Surely more drive train loss would be expect on this big truck verses our little Maxima's drive train.

http://www.mustangmods.com/publish/8850//ramdyno1.jpg

Dyno 001 is with the engine completely stock. Run 005 is with an underdrive crank pulley installed. Not to change the point of my post but pretty good gains on that engine with just a crank pulley through out the rpm range. Particularly that 17.3 pounds of torque.

I got the power I paid for with this Dodge. I did not with my Maxima!

vqman

I have a 6 speed 2003 with 4500 miles, I love the power I have, but if there is a lie about the HP rating, I'll be demanding something, maybe for Nissan to buy my car back, it's a breach of contract, I bought a car that was supposed to have 255bhp. The interior rattles uncontrolably, I was looking at a 330ci w/5 speed, but bought into the maxima because of all the power...just ticks me off, I'll take mine to a dino...let me know what I can do to help the lawsuit. French people suck...Maybe I'll buy a Lexus or a BMW next time.

DARKMETH

Granted I've only had my car for 9,000. miles with or without the extra 15 horses I still Luv my Max! I'm extremly happy with my vehicle. However, I do think that if we're promissed 255 hp, that we should atleast get that much and no more less. Please let me know if there's anything that I can do to contribute...

Max Rocks!

lcj2002se

So guys, I have a question for you. Some of you may be too young to remember, but since 1972, the HP rating was supposed to be from the wheels. It seems like everyone that has had their car dyno'ed has around 203 to 206 hp. Since this the case, aren't we getting stiffed out of around 50 HP, and not just the 15 everyone is talking about???
I feel that if they advertise 255HP, that is what should be comming off the wheels, not around 203. Do you Agree? Why are you asking Nissan for only 15 HP, when they boast of 255 HP. What can I do to help the cause? Personally, I'm ****ed that they made such a claim and not live up to it.

Larry

Rays2KMax

They measure the HP from the crank and not the wheels. I asked a tech about that because the 350Z say it has 280HP.

Larrio

iTrader: (10)

g35 coupe 280 hp
350z 287 hp

chinaonnitrous1

iTrader: (12)

Thats bull****...

Rays2KMax

I feel the same way!

vqman

has to be another marketing ploy...who would by the Z if it didn't have more power than the UNDENIABLY better looking G35? But proving 7 hp would be tough for 350Z owners...not as tough for us to prove 15hp...

You talk mostly of 2k2 maxima's...what about my 2k3? Isn't it the same altima engine as in your 2k2?

dobiegillis

Amen. You won't ever catch me driving a Camry.

LegalNinja

I posted some of this response in another thread about the power loss/rating differnce and thought others might like an opportunity to read it. I'd like to add that motorcycle manufacturers have a similar bad habit of rating the bikes really high using crank numbers. When the bikes get on the dyno, it is usually another story. For example, the Yamaha R6 is a 599cc sportbike with a manufacturer-claimed output of over 200hp/liter (~120hp) but it dynos in the 95-97hp range at the rear wheel. That translates into a drivetrain loss of ~20%; an unthinkable number given the relatively light and mechanically simple drivetrain of a high performance sportbike capable of speeds in excess of 150mph. It's stable-mate, the 998cc R1 is rated by the manufacturer as making 152hp at the crank but makes 137hp at the wheel which translates into a less than 10% drivetrain loss. If the R6 had losses similar to the R1 it would dyno at 107-108 at the rear wheel based on the manufacturers rating. Looking at those numbers, it seems that Yamaha is lying about one of the bikes. Anyway, the car/bike manufacturers lie/inflate/spin-doctor the numbers that will sell motor vehicles as they will. Below is the re-post:


What were the local environmental conditions at the time of the test or the correction factor used to determine the results of the test for the magazine article comparison posted above? And how do they compare to the environment/correction factor of the .ORG members who've posted their results? If the magazine was testing in the cool morning period with a high-speed fans (to reduce the effects of the engine heat in the testing bay) and high octane race fuel in the Max and/or testing the Altima in the mid-day with a lesser grade of fuel (regular premium or worse), that might account for the difference. There are so many variables that can affect power output in high-strung/close tolerance motors like the VQ.

Also, looking at the dyno, it appears that the hp difference is in the upper reaches of the power band which is indicative of airflow differences whether in or out. In addition, the torque is higher throughout the range despite the similar displacement and engine configuration. Not to be naive but, it could be easily explained by the variable capacity muffler and obvious engine variances (although they are supposed to be really close/tight). For example the Honda 954, Suzuki GSXR 1000, and Yamaha R1 all use valves in the exhaust pipes to boost low and mid-range torque by increasing backpressure while also increasing top-end power by reducing the restriction at higher RPMs. When a lot of folks modify the bikes by putting less restrictive exhaust systems on the bikes, the bikes actually make less power until the fuel mixture is enriched. Even then, the mid-range torque value is typically not as flat or wide as the stock numbers.

Again, if I'm missing some power that Nissan promised, I want it back. I'm just offering a motorsports comparison.

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

sweet dyno your car and send it to steve like i always say

tary44

yo guys
im just wondering
did the same thing happen to the VQ30DE for 5th and 4th gen?

MaxSE03

iTrader: (1)

I've been reading this topic since the beginning. I personally feel lied to and cheated out of hard earned money. Don't get me wrong. I love the Max and have had no problems with it(except for all the paint chips). Just the fact that I didn't get what Nissan advertised. Has anyone posted on the willingness to have their motor pulled for a engine dyno? I know there are a few guys on here that could live without there Max for a few days. Why don't we get a volunteer to do this and the maxima.org members pay to have it done. I'm sure there are plenty of .org members along with myself that would paypal $5-$10 for the cause. Just a thought, what does everyone else think?

Craig

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

it may have to be done anyway in the future

95bluse

iTrader: (1)

Are you guys sure this 15hp thing wasn't started up by the dyno shops to generate some cash? Seems like an awful lot of dyno'ing for an iffy lawsuit.

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

This lawsuit is not iffy it is legit.

clarkm3

I have a 2k2 with 20k on it and I love it. I like many of the
people have posted to this love there max's but, I agree if they are
cheating us they should pony up. My car is an automatic unfortunately I think my wife would kill me if I said I wanted to get a dyno done on it. If there is anything else I could do to help let me know.

Good Luck.

Larry

A dyno is not going to hurt your transmission or engine. These cars were designed to take them to the revlimiter without damaging the engine or transmission. If it breaks on the dyno it is a good inidcation you had an underlying problem and the dyno discovrered it. If that is the case then use your warranty before it goes out.

clarkm3

It's not that that I would be worried about, my wife would kill for spending the money, especially during the holiday season.

MardiGrasMax

iTrader: (14)

A dynojet is capable of determining drive train loss by doing a coast down. You can ask the shops if they know how to do it, and or call dyno jet and ask about it.

dcmaxclub

I'm not sure about the comparison between the models, but *as far as I know* (which could be wrong, but it is what I have heard from various sources) there is no standard on how the car manufacturers test the HP. So is that crank HP with the AC compressor installed? alternator? engine with NO accessories? If they tested the engine with nothing on it, then it will seem like a bigger difference because you will have to add the parasitic losses in with the drivetrain loss. In which case their numbers may be correct.

But if you guys are right and the loss should be around 15%, then this probably goes back a long time with Nissan. The 3rd gen VG auto maximas dynoed between 106-115 stock which is over 30% loss. The 4th and 5th gens were also around 18%, from the dynos I've seen at our maxima meets. The sentra spec v is also around 18%. I hope you guys are right though, cause I've got a 3rd gen and a spec v and would love a precedent to get something back.

02MaximaSE

These say it all about Nissan "Modest" Power claims.

Edmund's Review
"...About the only car that can match up to the Maxima is — uh-oh — the Altima. A five-speed Altima 3.5 SE we tested had identical acceleration numbers — a 6.3-second 0-to-60 and a 14.9-second quarter-mile. Both cars weigh about 3,225 pounds, so where the Maxima's horsepower and transmission advantages went to we have no idea..."

"Infiniti has fended off criticism over its claim that its flagship Q45 sedan can accelerate from 0 to 60 mph in 5.9 seconds. Automotive media and industry consultants who have tested the 340-horsepower Q45 have consistently failed to break the 6-second barrier....
Nissan officials have staunchly defended their acceleration figures for the Q45."

"Nissan has also backpedaled on its widely publicized claim that its new 3.5-liter V6, destined for the 2002 Nissan Maxima and Infiniti I35, would deliver 260 horsepower"

"Fudging horsepower ratings might be tempting for automakers. But the practice can also damage reputations and cost automakers a bundle. "

-Motorway

"The more modest power claims for the new engines aren't related to the Q45 controversy..."

"The engine power ratings were preliminary figures, engineering targets that the company couldn't quite match in production"
-Kurt Von Zumwalt, director of Nissan product public relations

Eleebob7

Anyone realize that all they needed was ONE maxima that would push 255 HP and they could say that that's the output of it...

I mean... i wouldn't dyno just for this but i do wish u guys luck w/ ur case

dmbmaxima2k2

iTrader: (1)

it doesn't work like that, at all. the reason we are having so many people dyno is so that we can see CONSISTENCY, not just one car that does it.

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

Pal if that was the case.....every company would throw a supercharger into the car and then sell the car N/A, you have to do many tests on cars before you sell them and on more than one....please don't post if you are uninformed

silverkorn

iTrader: (3)

if they are to claim that the max has 255hp then you should be able to pull any car off the lot and get the same numbers

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

exactly

ABQMAX

we should also sue nissan for a defective shifter.

This site is soooo FUNNY.
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

ABQMAX

we should also sue nissan for a defective shifter.

This site is soooo FUNNY. TOTALLY UNRELATED
http://www.hermes-press.com/nazification_step3.htm

Eleebob7

Very true... Sorry for being Misinformed...

On a sidenote:

Anyone know cheap Dyno place near SD? I got stock that can add another to it

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

I think Steve posted a link to where you can search for local dyno places, it's just back in the thread a few pages, or steve could you post that link again?

koostermax

i do see a possibility in us getting something out of a class action lawsuit...

i got notice of class action settlement from Cingular wireless.

this is related somewhat but anyhow, the plaintiffs, us consumers, is awaiting, pending out-of-court settlement, several optional reimbursement alternatives in a case regarding nokia cell phones (5190 and 6190 models). The claim was against Pacific Bell Wireless (now known as Cingular) in regards to the phones being capable of holding, guess what?....

.... 255 names and telephone numbers... that's right, ye old magic number that we were stripped of in our 2k2+ maximas... yet because of those stupid SIM cards (a computer chip) installed in the cell phones to get Cingular (then PacBell) Wireless service, those phones were limited to storing only 80 names and numbers. That's like a 319% drop in analagous performance.

SR20DEN

iTrader: (7)

Steve and I do NOT own dyno shops. We DO own 2002 6 speed Maximas though.

johnvt1111

iTrader: (2)

some people just post stupid s%^t, if it was started by a dyno shop, it would have to be ALL the dyno shops, because people are getting the same losses EVERYWHERE, plus most cars that go to a dyno and get the loss from the flywheel to the wheels nowhere near the loss of h/p we are getting if the 2k2 does have 255 horses

02MaximaSE

Yep, Im in South Florida, and a NEW Full 750 or 1,200 Hp automotive dyno which had a tube steel frame with 44” diameter high inertia roller assembly, bolt-on diamond plate roller deck plate, floor anchors, wheel chocks, vehicle tie-downs, 13” water brake absorber with over-drive, strain gauge equipped torque arm, DYNOmite data acquisition computer, inductive RPM pick-up, DYNO-MAX 2000, color printer, Windows equipped PC, computer stand, Electronic Auto Load Servo, Weather Station Kit, 42” cooling fan, full function data acquisition wiring harness, engine temperature thermistor, stainless braided hoses with aircraft fittings.

and got 197 FWHP, and 206 Torque to the wheels.
I have a 2k2 Automatic with 255 err 240hp!?!?!
I dont want to believe these numbers so, i'll dyno again.