reallywildstuff

'98 i30, only 128k miles One family ownership. Never over-heated previously.

I haven't been spending very much time on this board recently - but just a few days ago I looked at it random and saw @DizzyEdge ''s woes re: coolant in his oil. "Either a head gasket, or a water pump" - and I thought "poor bastard".

Today I have the EXACT SAME THING. Maybe a week ago I thought that the heather/evap core mode control door had dumped (like the fresh/recirc motor already has) because I didn't get any hot air out the heater. Then the weather (in Houston) turned, and I didn't turn the heater on any more. Yesterday evening I heard a squealing down low by the crank pulley - I thought it was maybe the balancer separating, but now I realize it was the water pump spinning without any coolant to lubricate it. I had also thought it was "boggy", and I mentioned to my wife that I thought there was something going on...I thought it maybe wasn't getting enough air (clogged filter - still haven't checked that though, kind of besides the point now).

I religiously check the oil (because it leaks) - I had the oil changed not that long ago, and I had thought the shop over filled it (perhaps 5 quarts instead of the spec 4.25) and so I was checking it pretty regular, waiting for it to drop like it always does. This AM I checked the oil and for the first time saw the milkshake on the dipstick like in my pic below. Thought I could get to work after dropping the kids off - stopped for water and put some in the overflow tank, but then the temp guage was just spiking badly (it did get all the way to the top - for maybe five minutes), so I pulled over and parked it.

I drove it maybe two miles total in this condition. I just had it towed home.

I guess I will flush the oil and coolant, refill with oil, and then do a compression test first (after checking the spark plugs for extra-shiny-ness) and see what that yields. Then a manual oil pressure test.

Right ?

I just did all four brakes in December. Had the A/C fixed last summer. Did fuel injectors earlier in 2019. What a kick in the ***.

And did I ever install the Stillen FTSB, Paradox RTSB, 00vi, recirc motor, wheelskin, or parking brake clip parts that I've been rat-holing like some kind of degenerate ? Of course not.

JvG

I'll give the same advice I have DizzyEdge.

Feel free to differ or share your opinion.

All I can think of is waterpump or head gasket.

It's rather unsettling to read about an uncommon issue to come up twice in the same week.


I've read that head gaskets eventally corrode due to not changing the coolant frequently enough. That creates acidic coolant which eats head gaskets.

I'm guilty of this myself.

Post your results . DizzyEdge will have a preview of what he will deal with once the weather improves where he lives.

DizzyEdge

Well crap.

JoshG

A year ago it was all injector issues, now its becoming cooling issues...I'm in it too. Welcome to the club lol.

JvG

Seems that our cars are reaching age related general decrepitude. The point when parts fail due to age instead of through long use or neglect.

This could be scary. We can deal with injection issues. But the head gaskets on our engines are not easily dealt with. Very expensive to have done.
A dedicated member could probably do it, but it would take a lot of time and effort.

reallywildstuff

Would somebody please direct me to a place where "VQ 3.0 motors are plentiful and cheap for sale".

Is there a simple swap to a 5th Generation motor that would be more bang for the buck ?

DizzyEdge

I found a bunch on car-part.com, ~160k mile ones were 2-300 bucks, ~75k more like 600+
There's actually more than 1700 listed.

JvG

There are several engines listed on ebay. I saw one with 64k on it. It's a 2001 3.0 engine.

the 2000-2001 5th gen 3.0 engines supposedly fit our cars. Do you own research to confirm this.

reallywildstuff

The car is in my garage. I've filled the coolant system with water. There are "no leaks to be observed".

Is there something to be gained by pressure testing this before moving onto the next step (draining oil and water, refilling oil, checking plugs, checking compression) ?

BrianA in Houston

JvG

The cooling system might not leak at zero PSI, but might at 15 psi.

pressurizing the cooling system to 15psi would simulate what the cooling system experience's on a hot day while under load.

M in KC

^ B-I-N-G-O! Yes pressure test it. Compression test the cylinders and even consider a cylinder leak down test if your source(s) of coolant lose are not revealed by these tests.

DizzyEdge

Yeah with my situation when I noticed the rad was low I refilled it and even 3 days (without being driven) later it was still at the top, but after 30 mins of driving it was way low.

JvG

There should be two types of tests. The engine comprssion test involves removing the spark plugs. Keep track of where they came from. Ones which look steam cleaned indicate water leakage into the cylinder .

instructions .

1. Remove fuel pump fuse. It's on the right side of the fuse box under the dash

2. Start the car. It will die when it runs out of gas.

3. Remove spark plugs. Take photos of electrodes and post them here.

4. Block throttle fully open. .

5 . take compression readings . Write the numbers down. You tube will have videos of how to take compression readings.

6. Tell us what the compression is for each cylinder .

Do this first. It's the main test for blown head gasket. A different kind of test will confirm.

if there is not something obviously wrong after this, you will need to test the coolant pressure.

The tests will tell us if the leak is through the head gasket or the water pump.

A leaking head gasket will mean that you need to replace the engine.

A,leaking water pump means that you need to replace just that.

saig

You want to rule out that your coolant hose circuit is not blocked and coolant should flow freely: Open and inspect engine-block coolant drain bolts on bank 1 & 2. Also, check coolant sensors for deposits as well, coolant temp sensors (ECTS) and temperature gauge sensor. Check any water/coolant hose that kinks? Check if coolant heater hose blocked?

Desperate situation justifies extreme measure.
Before replacing engine, you may try stop leaks product. We don't want stop leak chemicals going through heater core, IACV/throttle body, radiator. Unhook, bypass or cap off these components. Build a DIY pump, such as an electric (pool/fountain) water pump to push the chemical instead of using car/engine WP. Remove hose returning to radiator, and connect it to the DIY pump inlet, then connect pump outlet to the thermostat inlet with thermostat removed. Run the pump to circulate chemicals through the coolant network and hope it fill any compromise leakage to the oil passage. You don't need to run the engine. The DIY pump does all the pumping.

This is just a thought. Verify if this makes sense to you. Will it works? Don't know.

Below is the coolant network and service data of 4th gen maxima.


Do we hate that a failure of $25 part [head gasket] results in throwing away car worth thousands. Please make it in platinum to make this NEVER EVER fail.

JvG

Saig,

Some questions .

does Blue Devil and it's cousins seal without heat or pressure?

It seems that your suggestion involves circulating the goo with a pump. I don't think that heat or pressure is involved.

I agree that there are situations where the glop could work for a while. Seems like only a last ditch desperation option though.

You are isolating the goo from the heater core and radiatior. Which is good.

Do you know anyone who actually had satisfactory results by doing that?

saig

JvG, no, I haven't used any of these products. Just a thought.

JvG

Understand . I've been curious and skeptical.

Scotty Kilmer and others say it doesn't work in the long run.

Some people use it to sell a defective car to someone who doesn't know what to look for.

or I've read that people use it till thru can afford something better.

reallywildstuff

Well...it looks like I'll be parting out my 98 i30.

I located a leak in the coolant system where the hard pipes in front meet the hard nipple on the front head. The clamps were not over the nipples. I never noticed any coolant leak / faulty A/C performance / overheating until the Fit hit the Shan. I drove this car to Austin, in stop and go Houston traffic, etc for..."a long time", since I replaced "every single heater hose" during my injector rebuild/cleaning operation...which is to say, it seems like I killed this car.

I let all the test water out of the coolant system once I had the "leak" repaired.

There was 7 quarts of milkshake in my crankcase, which I dutifully drained and filled with fresh oil before doing a

Compression Test:

1 - 200 3 - 210 5 - 210
2 - 219 4 - 195 6 - 205

which tells me there is almost certainly a blown gasket on the forward head.

What a revolting development.

JvG

Your compression numbers are excellent.
They are high and consistant.
The next test should be a block test. It is a unit which fits over the filler neck on the radiator.
it has a blue fluid in it which will turn green to yellow if exposed to exhaust gas from the coolant.

You would definitely have a blown head gasket if it changes color. I've seen that happen on an other car.

However, if it stays blue, you would definitely NOT
have a blown head gasket.

I bought my car from a dealer when it had just over 100,000 miles on it. Part of the repairs they had done was the coolant pipes you are talking about.
They also did the rear struts and other things.
Perhaps my car had an issue similar to yours, and the owner traded the car in . My car has 220k on it now and runs great.

Please send a private message to Wizard and
CS-AR. They might be able to explain how the coolant pipes dump coolant into the oil pan.
I don't understand how that could hsppen.

Also post a photo of what you are talking about.

It might be possible to save your engine.

1. If the Block test does NOT show exhaust gas in the coolant.

2. If a mechanical oil Guage screwed into the oil pressure sensor port shows reasonable oil pressure after you have changed the oil and filter.
That test is to determine if the bearings are still is good condition.

I wish you good luck. Keep us posted.

Your local auto parts store will probably rent you the block test kit.
​​

JvG

Wild Stuff

More thoughts. I'd say that the head gasket is intact.

I don't know if or how the coolant tube's leak water in the block.

I think I know what could. Also a simple test.

The water pump has an O ring which prevents pressurized coolant from going into the oil. It might have hardened. The inner seal on my pump had hardened and was fused to the timing chain housing.

The test should disclose a water pump seal which leaks onto the oil.

Drain the oil pan. Add only enough coolant to cover the block to the lower edge of the heads. But enough to cover the water pump.
Pressurize the cooling system with a tester you rent from the parts store.

The water level would be below the heads and the crossover tube's you mentioned.

I expect that you will see coolant flowing out of the oil pan drain hole.

You could confirm by removing the water pump cover. You might be able to see the water leak.

reallywildstuff

I am having a "come to Jesus" moment with my life partner right now re: whether its time to cut bait on this car.

If the block test eliminates "blown head gasket" as the culprit - does that definitely mean its the water pump? I didn't notice any coolant leaks until I used a pressure tester @ 20 PSI - and as mentioned most of the coolant was in the oil, i.e. it didn't leak out the unsecured hose.

Replacing the water pump is...a "*****", correct? EDIT: I've looked in the FSM, I see what's required. Lots of work and lots of opportunity to F it up ("nick the o-ring, mess up the tenstioner, etc.), right? Or is it easier than it looks ?

There are so many new or "almost new" parts on this car: air conditioning, power stop brakes, struts, rear window tint, two new tires + two good tires, rebuilt injectors, all new EVAP system, Hitachi alternator, AGM battery, negative battery cable, functioning glass fog lamps with Laminix, NO RUST to speak of, CV joints, steering rack end links + OEM boots

Needs: steering wheel wheelskin (on hand), a/c recirc door motor (on-hand), ebrake clip on one side (on-hand)...Maxima.org bumper sticker (still in the shipping package).

Hi-Po parts purchased but not installed: Stillen FTSB, Paradox RTSB, 00vi setup, Cifero headlights.

fix, sell as is, or part-out ?

Pictures are where I found the leak with a pressure tester - pictures were taken after the clamps were re-adjusted to the correct positions.

JvG

The leaks you pointed to are external.

the water pump has a seal which can leak directly by its timing chain gear. You could probably watch it leak if you take its cover off.

The water pump is one of those repairs us long term owners will face someday. Mine happened at 190k miles perhaps 4 years ago. Mine leaked onto the ground through its weep hole.

The repair is not fun. It's mostly tedious and uncomfortable . You need access both from above and below. A willing friend who is left handed would be wonderful. Do not remove the engine mount.

I'm more concerned about the engine bearings.
coolant in the oil could cause bearing wear. Worn rod bearings cause thrown rods. Worn bearings could be replaced through the pan, but would be a pita. We are also concerned about wear on the crankshaft.

Here is my opinion. Your cars mileage is still quite low. It still has most of its potential life to live. It's in good shape. You have put a lot of work into it, and have extra parts for it.

It's worth saving if it's oil pressure is within specification. The car could then be repaired for around 100 bucks.


We have determined that the head gasket is good . 95 percent certain about that.

The only other leak point I can think of is the water pump.

We want to check it's oil pressure once the oil and filter has been changed again.
Attach a mechanical oil pressure guage to the oil sensor port on the engine. Match the thead type of the sensor to the mechanical guage. Let me know if the thread is different. Dont force it in. It would cross thread

If oil pressure is low and you hear grinding /expensive noises, I'd say it's time to get a replacement engine or get rid of the car.

If the oil pressure is where it should be, or close, and there are no expensive noises, remove the water pump cover. Pressurize the system. You should see a leak. Even if you do not, just replace the water pump. All you have to lose is the cost of the pump, and a few hours of your time.

I'm not a pro mechanic. Just a car owner who has done his own maintaince on old cars since 1971.
My batting average is pretty good, but I'm far from perfect.

JvG

Water pump installation involves gradually walking the pump out of ita tight bore with a couple of bolts you will need to buy. Tighten each one a bit at a time. failure to do that will cause it to get cockeyed and bind. If it dies bind, it's a matter of loostoning one bolt and tightening the other one.

installation requires a bit of coolant on one O ring, and oil on the other one. Or it will tear the seals.
It's just a matter of being patient. This is something you want to do when you are not tired or after a beer. Bad things could happen.
You will hear horrible noises when you turn the engine on the first time. That's normsl.

The people who have trouble might not have followed instructions, didn't lubricate, were impatient, or a bit tipsy. You will want a 1/4 inch drive inch pound torque wrench and a gentle touch so that you don't strip a threaded hole or break a narrow bolt.

M in KC

And FWIW, I always buy two sets of Nissan only O-rings for the water pump. If you destroy one or one set of O-rings due to improper install, you have a spare. Again I'll suggest only using a Nissan pump as well. My original lasted 330k and in fact wasn't leaking at the time, I changed it preemptively. I did manage to drop the t-chain plunger into the oil pan when changing the water pump even though I knew I had to mindful of what I was doing, clearly I wasn't mindful enough. I was never able to recover it. Some 71k miles later it is still in the oil pan somewhere. And as JvG said, hen you start the engine up initially its going to sound like you left half your tools in it until it builds oil pressure. It certainly is an unnerving sound for a few seconds so don't freak out.

JvG

I've been thinking things over.

Doing an oil pressure test with coolant still flowing into the oil won't be accurate.

It's logical to replace the water pump at this point.
It's almost certainly the culprit.

Your car will still run after the leak has stopped.
You can do an accurate oil pressure reading then.

If the engine makes vibration and noises you could still sell the car for more money than you can right now.

If the oil pressure is kinda low you could still drive the car for a while until ominous noises start. Perhaps a year or two, maybe longer.

If oil pressure is relativly normal you can drive the car for 100k miles, perhaps well beyond that.

All you have to lose is some of your time.
You will recover the cost of the pump and fluids should you choose to sell car which does run.

reallywildstuff

JvG - you're thinking like me. I've drained the coolant from the radiator - but not from the block. Should I go ahead and drain the block and then do the oil pressure test? I bought a mechanical gauge...

I also rented a Block Test Kit. Does there have to be "any" coolant in the system for this to work? It seems to operate on exhaust _gases_ only...and I don't want to fill it back up with coolant now. Does anyone know if the block test kit (blue fluid that turns yellow if there's a head gasket leak) requires any coolant in the system to give a proper reading ?

Oh yeah: I'm wondering if I can even get an oil pump / o-rings delivered these days re: COVID19.

JvG

The term : You Can't Get There From Here comes to mind.

One tests oil pressure when the engine is cold, and also when the oil it's self is hot. But you cant have coolant in the oil system to get an accurate reading. Simcd you already bought the guage, the test can wait till you are done with the water pump.
We can measure how successful the repair is at that point.

The block test requires that the thermostat is open so that coolant and possible exhaust gas can enter the radiator. The thermostat won open without coolant. It would take quite a while for exhaust gas to fill the space where the coolant would be. That would require running the engine for quite a while . Which would blow the head gasket. Return the block test. You probably bought the blue fluid.
You will want to rent the test kit again once you complete the repair. The test is done with the coolant level two inches below normal. That's so that the tester will duck only exhaust fumes, not coolant into the tester.

More info.in a few minutes.

JvG

I noticed that you tube has videos about how to change the water pump. Since videos say far more than I can, I just want you to watch them at home.

You will need to drain your oil and replace your filter. DO NOT REPLACE THE DRAIN PLUG. Buy cheap oil and filter. You will want to change the oil and filter again shortly after the repair, and again 50 mIles or so later. That's because 10-15 percent of the oil and antifreeze in the engine remains when the oil is drained. I'd do an additional oil change to your preferred oil and filter at the 500 mile point. Oil and filters are cheap. Replacing your engine isn't

I found it impossible to remove the coolant drain plugs in the engine. So that coolant was still in there. It drained or rather sort of spewed out when I removed the water pump. Pull it out slowly. The coolant will drain into the oil pan, then out the oil drain hole.

The official Nissan water pump a member recommended will have matching Nissan O rings available through Nissan if you spoil the first ones.

After market pumps have O rings which may or may not be the same size as the Nissan ones.

I found a good deal on Amazon when I did mine.
the pump was made by Aisen. It was made in Japan. Aisen is an oem supplier for Toyota. Aisen makes their automatic transmissions. The Aisen pump I bought seemed to match my original pump in every way. I feel that Aisen might have made my original Nissan pump under contract.

Best wishes, let us know how you are doing.

I'm kind of posting as I think about things.
Your problem and the other members issue are the first probable water pump in to oil leak ive read about on the forum. Our cars are reaching the age when unusal things happen. Perhaps the pump leak will be as chronic a's the injector leaks have gotten.
This is a catastrophic issue unless caught early.
It's the kind of thing which sends old low value cars like ours to the junk yard.

sdunker

When I changed the orings on my water pump, I removed the lower oil pan. This way I did not have to change oil a bunch of times. It also gives you the opportunity to clean the lower pan and inspect the oil pump pickup screen for debries.
I should also add that my pump was not leaking internally but externally. Leaked out by compressor

JvG

I did the same.

Yet there would still be oil and coolant inside the oil pump, the oil galleries, the crankshaft, other nooks and crannies, and clinging to the insides of the engine block casting.

That's the reason he still needs to change his oil several times. Coolant can create a corrosive acido which eats engine bearings.

You and I removed the pan to clean the oil pick up screen, inspect the oil sump for possible sludge.

In other words, an opportunity to do some good preventative maintenance.

reallywildstuff

I returned the rented block test kit, the fluid (unused), and the manual oil pressure gauge - since I can't get reliable readings via any of them at this time.

This is a car forum, populated by car people. My wife (the life partner I mentioned earlier) is seriously questioning the wisdom of attempting the water pump replacement absent PROOF that the head gasket isn't blown. I have not yet filled the coolant only halfway up and attempted to show coolant leak thru the water pump out the oil drain plug - however even if that were proven true, that doesn't eliminate a blown head gasket from the equation.

Let us please take a second look at these compression figures and opine what they _really_ indicate:

Compression Test:

1 - 200 3 - 210 5 - 210
2 - 219 4 - 195 6 - 205

There is "more than a 10% difference" between adjacent cylinders shown on these results (2 &4). The basic instructions that came with the compression tester indicated 10% difference was a number to be concerned about.

I will re-do the compression test soon and get a second set of numbers for reference.

I don't want to throw this car away but I am truly at a cross-roads re: what to do next.

JvG

Those are really very good numbers.

The cylinder pressures are fairly even.

Any variance like that is due to some wear on a piston ring or a valve slightly out of adjustment.
Not bad at all for a car with your mileage.

A blown head gasket would read 0 to 30 pounds., especially on the out side cylinders.

or 30 to 60 in two adjacent cylinders. The pressure would transfer from one to the other.

My sons car blew a head gasket because his radiator was clogged. My Porsche blew a head gasket due to a stuck thermostat. So I know what compression number look like. You do not have a head gasket issue.

A blown head gasket would create pressure in the radiator and would fill the coolant expansion tank.

the water pump has one O ring between coolant at 15 pounds of pressure and empty space a 0 pounds or a slight vacuum on the other side.

Your wife might have heard some thing from someone she respects that the problem can ONLY be head gasket. This person is not aware that our oil pumps are mounted into the engine it's self.

Your wife wants you to throw away a car which needs 100 dollars worth of work.

A mechanic would charge that much just for an opinion.

All you have to lose is a few hours of your time and 100 dollars. I'd say the chance of success is over 90 percent.

She probably wants a newer car which will cost 1000s of dollars, or 10 's of thousands.


Also, regarding the oil changes. You could add a gallon of used oil each time. You might have some used oil in the garage, or perhaps a friend does.

Again, a running car can sell for 100s more than the wrecking yard will pay you right now. All fir the cost of a water pump.

JvG

Our cars seldom blow headgaskets.

The main reason head gaskets blow is over heated engines. Yours has not over heated.

Most cars do not have internally mounted oil pumps. Ours does.

One O ring separates coolant from the oil pump. A leak there will dump water into the oil.

The car could have been back on the road by now.

Buy and install the water pump.

Just Do It.

Any other used car is likely to be less reliable than the one you have .

vqmaxman

I think nissan was supposed to tsb this o ring seal at the water pump because of something this small and so simple can cause you to lose your engine and head gasket or not it's similar signs of a blown headgasket thats not cool or fun especially the motors has no more or less than 180k League. It's possible to have a slight headgasket issue and not get any coolant in the oil but again it's about how badly the damage is or done.

CS_AR

I have had more variance than that on my 1999 model SE and I30 that have been running for years. If there is a blown head gasket, you can see a difference in the plug. I suspect the water pump seal is leaking.

reallywildstuff

Please help me confirm I am ordering all the correct parts to complete this repair - there are also other gaskets etc that I'm not sure whether I will need or not, please advise.

This is for my 1998 i30

JvG

Are you in the USA or Canada.

Will the coldest temperature stay above 0c or 32f where you live.

I just looked on Amazon.

there is a Beck Arnly pump and water pump and also the gaskets for 35 buck on Amazon.

Beck Arnly sells good stuff. It's often OEM over stock. I've been happy with their stuff .

No point spending extra money if you don't have to.
I installed a pump made by Aisen. It works just fine.


I don't know about the water tube o rings.

I would take the old O ring to a local hardware store. Ask them where their O ring drawer is.
Match it up. Should cost 50 cents.

You will need to buy a tube of oil resistant RTV.
it's the grey if I recall. Made by Pematex. You will need it for the water pump cover as well as the tensioner cover.

You might as well get started by doing the leak test after you installed the water tube o ring. Test for leaks there with dishwashing liquid. You would see bubbles if it leaks as,you pressurize the system.

If that o ring don't leak, remove the water pump.
Make sure that there is not O ring material fused onto the aluminum casting the pump lives in. I found fused rubber there when I did my pump. I had to remove that. Or it would have caused a leak.
​​​​

CS_AR

I used a Beck Arnley pump on my 99 model 6-7 years ago. No issues. If you haven't already, this will be a good time to replace the timing chain tensioner and install the TSB gasket. I did both my 98 and 99 models a few years ago. I posted a write up on a shortcut for the tensioner installation by making a guide pin to use during installation. I think I could do tensioners blindfolded.

CS_AR

I've used a block tester to rule out a blown head gasket.

JvG

CS-AR...... I thought that only the 95-96 cars needed new tensoners. Do all the 4th Gen need revised tensoners?

I have a 1996. I removed the spring from the tensioner and stretched it a bit less than 1/8 ".
I seldom hear chain noises. My car has 220,000 miles on it. I use synthetic oil.

​​​​​​