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Interestingly it smells like gasoline rather than coolant. Car's never overheated, weird. No white smoke, but was losing coolant all of a sudden causing lack of cabin heat when idling. Are there any other gaskets or areas which could cause coolant to end up in the crankcase but apparently not the cylinder?
Interestingly it smells like gasoline rather than coolant. Car's never overheated, weird. No white smoke, but was losing coolant all of a sudden causing lack of cabin heat when idling. Are there any other gaskets or areas which could cause coolant to end up in the crankcase but apparently not the cylinder?
Seems like you are starting a new thread without mentioning what the original problem is.
Please tell us what issue you are having .
So I'm guessing that you are losing coolant.
Also that there is coolant in the oil pan?
How do you know that coolant is in there?
It's never overheated?
Have you ever changed your water pump?
Do you live in a cold area and only drive your car for short distance , seldom go on long drives lately.
Please,answer each question so we can understand what might be going on.
The issue was lack of heat during idle about 1 week ago. Heat came back at low driving rpms eg 1200 but went away at the 700 rpm idle.
I checked the coolant and it was about a quart low, filled up the radiator and heat was back.
2 days / 90 mins of driving later the heat was gone again, this time I was able to fill up the radiator with 3 quarts. I also saw green 'goo' under the radiator cap, so thinking the cap might be bad I replaced it and then test drove and let it idle for 10 mins and heat was hot the whole time.
The next time I drove it was today, 15 mins to work, and 15 mins back. On the way back heat went out again and during the last 1 minute of driving it started to idle around 600 rpm instead of 700 and so had some vibration.
Once home I checked the oil and that lead to that photo. Oil was last changed 3 months ago.
As far as I know based on temp gauge in the car the engine had never overheated as the gauge has never gone above the slightly less than mid-point position.
There is no loss of power, and no white smoke in the exhaust as far as I can tell.
Water pump has not been changed while I've owned the car.
here are the most likely things which leak coolant in our cars. Listed most likely to least likely.
Radiator
A hose
Waterpump.
Most unlikely is the head gasket. Especially if there was no overheating.
1. Fill radiator full of coolant
2. Drive car till thouroghly warm
3 Park in level spot.
4. Put cardboard under the radiator and also under passenger side of engine under the belts.
5 Let car sit for several hours.
6. Remove cardboard and look for wet spots.
7 look for leaks under the throttle body.
gasoline smell in oil might indicate leaking injectors. Is the car difficult to start if it's been sitting for a while?
Another no/low buck diagnostic check would be to pull the spark plugs and take a look at them. Do any look like they have been steam cleaned? If so that would suggest to me that would be your suspect cylinder(s) for a head gasket failure. A second thought would be to check out a cooling system pressure tester from your local parts store and start challenging your cooling systems for leaks.
I changed the oil yesterday, 4 weeks ago the oil was clean and at the right level, by yesterday it had gained 2 liters of coolant for a total of 6 liters dumped out. In 3-4 hours of driving 2 liters of coolant entered the crankcase. So the issue is definitely a break somewhere allowing coolant to flow right into the crankcase vs leaking externally.
Is there anything other than a head gasket break that would allow coolant to dump directly into the oil?
Called my local shop and they quoted me $4400 for an engine rebuild (due to the coolant mixed oil being the lube for 3-4 hours of driving over the past couple of weeks so they assume engine damage), or $3000 for an engine swap. Sigh. This being in Canadian dollars so take off 1/3 to get USD.
I'm debating attempting an engine swap myself, I'm disappointed that this engine only made it 165k miles considering how much I baby it.
The water pump is inside the engine. It is driven by the timing chain. The pump has two O rongs on it. The inner O ring keeps the oil and coolant seperate.
Hmm interesting, so I guess the test for that would be to drop the oil pan and pressure test the coolant system to see if coolant spews out of the oil pump?
Another member mentioned removing the spark plugs to look for steam cleaned ones which look whiter and cleaner than the others. Especially two next to each other.
Or you might be able to rent a block test kit from an auto parts store. You would have to buy the blue test fluid which comes with it. Follow the instructions. The fluid turns yellow or green if there is an exhaust leak into the cylinder. An exhaust leak through a head gasket can also open a path for pressurized water to drain into the oil system.
Do you see white clouds coming from the tail pipe when you start the car?
Also does the engine sound normal or does it knock or vibrate like it did not before this happened.
How many miles have you driven the car since you noticed the leak.
The reason I ask is that antifreeze in the oil does bad things to crank and rod bearings.
When I started it briefly yesterday my girlfriend said she saw a puff of bluish smoke, but there haven't been any large clouds of smoke at all.
The first indication of trouble was the loss of heat last tuesday, If we just guess and say the issue started over that weekend then I have driven the car for about 7 days, 35 mins a day. so maybe as much as 4 hours of driving, although that would include when the oil was 1% coolant all the way til it hit 33% coolant.
The first sign of anything amiss with the engine is when I was 30 seconds from home the last day I drove the stopped idle suddenly dropped from it's normal 700pm to a vibrating 600rpm. This was 1 block from home so it was driven for 30 seconds ( or less) in that state.
With the lack of overheat and lack of clouds of smoke I'm thinking the issue has not entered the cylinder but is a gasket, crack, or other failure between coolant and oil channels directly.
This kind of thing is quite rare in the 4th Gen Maxima.
Headgaskets rarely go bad unless someone insists on driving with a bad radiator. I've never read about a leak onto to oil from the water pump.
Yet one of these hings has happened to you.
The vibration and the simultaneous idle drop could be the result of wiped engine bearings.
1/3 coolant 2/3 oil could destroy bearings.
I'd say that you should remove the spark plugs for a look see. Should they look normal, I'd rent the block test rig to look for blown head gasket.
Should the head gasket seem intact, I'd assume water pump issues.
But even then, I'd be concerned about the bearings.
I'd change the oil and filter (just buy cheap stuff)
Then I'd test the oil pressure with a mechanical meter. Low oil pressure could mean bad bearings. Especialy low oil pressure while hot.
I advise sending a private message to Wizard and CS-AR. Ask for their input. I'd say that you are in deep weeds here. Consult the real experts of this forum before spending the big bucks.
Next question to you....
Do you have the working room, time, and ability to replace the engine yourself if need be?
Or perhaps some shade tree mechanic could replace the engine for you.
With of these options would be cheaper than trying to save yours if the head gasket or bearings are damaged.
I experienced head gasket failure on my sons Toyota Cress idea (Supra engine) I replaced it with a JDM engine. Those like to blow head gaskets.
I also lost a head gasket when the thermostat became stuck on a steep mountain pass on a hot day. I was driving my water cooled Porsche 924.
This kind of thing is quite rare in the 4th Gen Maxima.
Headgaskets rarely go bad unless someone insists on driving with a bad radiator. I've never read about a leak onto to oil from the water pump.
Yet one of these hings has happened to you.
The vibration and the simultaneous idle drop could be the result of wiped engine bearings.
1/3 coolant 2/3 oil could destroy bearings.
I'd say that you should remove the spark plugs for a look see. Should they look normal, I'd rent the block test rig to look for blown head gasket.
Should the head gasket seem intact, I'd assume water pump issues.
But even then, I'd be concerned about the bearings.
I'd change the oil and filter (just buy cheap stuff)
Then I'd test the oil pressure with a mechanical meter. Low oil pressure could mean bad bearings. Especialy low oil pressure while hot.
I advise sending a private message to Wizard and CS-AR. Ask for their input. I'd say that you are in deep weeds here. Consult the real experts of this forum before spending the big bucks.
Next question to you....
Do you have the working room, time, and ability to replace the engine yourself if need be?
Or perhaps some shade tree mechanic could replace the engine for you.
With of these options would be cheaper than trying to save yours if the head gasket or bearings are damaged.
I experienced head gasket failure on my sons Toyota Cress idea (Supra engine) I replaced it with a JDM engine. Those like to blow head gaskets.
I also lost a head gasket when the thermostat became stuck on a steep mountain pass on a hot day. I was driving my water cooled Porsche 924.
"This kind of thing is quite rare in the 4th Gen Maxima."
I know! This was the last thing I thought would go in the car. I'm going to try some of these things on the weekend. My 'garage' is my backyard, where I've done all of my repairs. Hopefully the car makes it from in front of my house around the corner and down the alley.
If the engine seems like it's binding as you start it, you will want to remove the spark plugs , then turn the starter . You might see a gusher come out of a spark plug hole. Better have your girlfriend turn the key as you watch the engine.
it's more likely that you could drive the car into the back yard the way it is.
Keep track of which plug comes from each cylinder. Post photos if any look steam cleaned. I
Perhaps all plugs will look normal. That would mean the head gaskets are ok. Then the water pump is leaking.
The oil pressure test would be next on the list.
worn or ruined bearings would cause low oil pressure. Change the oil and filter before you do that test. Perhaps the engine will sound normal as it warms up.
Then check the oil pressure when engine is at operating temperature.
Let's say that you have confirmed it's the water pump, and the engine has good oil pressure and sounds normal. At that point it would make sense to replace the water pump. But you would still not know the truexact condition of the bearings. You might get lucky, perhaps not. You are looking at a 100 dollar bill for the pump and oil.
Used engines won't cost all that much and are still plentiful. Our engines are known to last, so supply and demand is in your favor.
If the head gasket is gone, swap it with the lowest mileage engine you can find. Not worth replacing the head gasket by itself because at that point everything else has been damaged as well. Then just swap all the new parts off your blown head gasket engine into the new one, put new seals and etc..
If the head gasket is gone, swap it with the lowest mileage engine you can find. Not worth replacing the head gasket by itself because at that point everything else has been damaged as well. Then just swap all the new parts off your blown head gasket engine into the new one, put new seals and etc..
Agreed of course.
I'm crossing my fingers that the water pump went bad, and the bearing's are ok.
He would need to spend time and money on that experiment. Might win, might not.
Stay tuned, hopefully an update at the end of the weekend. I just realized I've owned Maximas for 16 years, a 3rd gen 2004-2008, and my 4th gen 2008 to the present, no wonder I'm emotionally attached . I have a very very short list of cars I'd consider that aren't a 4th gen Maxima as a replacement.
Stay tuned, hopefully an update at the end of the weekend. I just realized I've owned Maximas for 16 years, a 3rd gen 2004-2008, and my 4th gen 2008 to the present, no wonder I'm emotionally attached . I have a very very short list of cars I'd consider that aren't a 4th gen Maxima as a replacement.
I've had mine for 14 years now.
How would you feel about buying another 4th Gen if your engine is toast?
They are so cheap now.
I'm in a rust free area. They are still quite common.
How would you feel about buying another 4th Gen if your engine is toast?
They are so cheap now.
I'm in a rust free area. They are still quite common.
Currently there are only 6 for sale within a 600 mile radius of me, and 5 of the 6 range from slightly rustier than mine was to probably unsafe levels of rust, unfortunately. What would be perfect would be a black 4th gen with a cloth or wrecked interior that I could swap my mint black leather interior into.
Best:
98/99 Max (so an upgrade to side airbags)
I35
G35x (need the X awd since we can have 6 months a year with at least some snow)
2nd gen Acura TL (the ones with the glass transmissions)
2nd gen Oldsmobile Aurora (the ones with the glass engines)
2nd best:
95-97 Max
5th gen Maxima (I don't like the 5th gen interiors, basically I'm a sucker for (plastic) wood trim lol)
1st gen Acura RL (a more expensive car to maintain to basically get a similar exterior and interior as a 4th gen Max)
Acura Legend
And that's kind of it. I really dislike most cars newer than 2004 when they all started to look the same.
Honestly, the only way I'd get rid of these 4th gens if It was rusted out, paint falling apart, body damage, needs a ton of work or totaled out in a bad accident.
The current one I have is super clean outside though I had put some small amounts of work over the years since 2012 as it was already in good condition when I got it. White pearl still shines, Black leather fully loaded still looks nearly new with minimal wear and tear. No body damage, lowered on springs/shocks, Hardly any rust at all (Never seen snow) R34 Headlights brand new, shaved trunk lid, Clear signals/tail-lights. Black trunk lip, Black Stillen front lip. I call it Panda. White/Black color scheme.
The only thing I tend to focus on now is Maintaining the car...If the engine were ever to go bye-bye at any given moment, I'd probably just swap it with a lower mileage because of how clean it is... Eventually, these cars are going to need swaps/rebuilds due to age or wear and tear.
Nissan built this car right even though they were spending lots of money building their cars before 2001, (They were facing lots of debt and were going to go bankrupt if they didn't change... hence why Renault merged with them in 2001 to cut production costs down..)
My replacement cars are: Some of them are imported cars from Japan! check them out
Some go under $10k and no more than $15k at most except a few.
Nissan Silvia
Nissan Laurel
Nissan 300zx (Saw some clean ones under $10k!)
Nissan 240sx (97, because of the sweet-looking front end!!)
Mitsubishi Lancer/Evo
Toyota Chaser
Toyota Artiso
4 Door Skyline (Heard they're much cheaper)
92 4 door Madza Sentia
Saw this Imported Nissan Japan car for $2k-3k that looked really cool but forgot the name...
I'm sure there are more I like but these would be my picks. Some companies out there are already starting to Import these cars to the U.S Legally and selling them. Look up Japanese Classics LLC. Got some sweet rides there, all of their cars look nearly brand new inside and out. Sure you may pay a little more but the amount of work done to the cars for the customer to get in and drive is a great feeling. It's a whole different ball game when a customer has to buy a project car, do some work, and may not have the motivation to finish it.
Honestly, the only way I'd get rid of these 4th gens if It was rusted out, paint falling apart, body damage, needs a ton of work or totaled out in a bad accident.
The current one I have is super clean outside though I had put some small amounts of work over the years since 2012 as it was already in good condition when I got it. White pearl still shines, Black leather fully loaded still looks nearly new with minimal wear and tear. No body damage, lowered on springs/shocks, Hardly any rust at all (Never seen snow) R34 Headlights brand new, shaved trunk lid, Clear signals/tail-lights. Black trunk lip, Black Stillen front lip. I call it Panda. White/Black color scheme.
The only thing I tend to focus on now is Maintaining the car...If the engine were ever to go bye-bye at any given moment, I'd probably just swap it with a lower mileage because of how clean it is... Eventually, these cars are going to need swaps/rebuilds due to age or wear and tear.
Nissan built this car right even though they were spending lots of money building their cars before 2001, (They were facing lots of debt and were going to go bankrupt if they didn't change... hence why Renault merged with them in 2001 to cut production costs down..)
My replacement cars are: Some of them are imported cars from Japan! check them out
Some go under $10k and no more than $15k at most except a few.
Nissan Silvia
Nissan Laurel
Nissan 300zx (Saw some clean ones under $10k!)
Nissan 240sx (97, because of the sweet-looking front end!!)
Mitsubishi Lancer/Evo
Toyota Chaser
Toyota Artiso
4 Door Skyline (Heard they're much cheaper)
92 4 door Madza Sentia
Saw this Imported Nissan Japan car for $2k-3k that looked really cool but forgot the name...
I'm sure there are more I like but these would be my picks. Some companies out there are already starting to Import these cars to the U.S Legally and selling them. Look up Japanese Classics LLC. Got some sweet rides there, all of their cars look nearly brand new inside and out. Sure you may pay a little more but the amount of work done to the cars for the customer to get in and drive is a great feeling. It's a whole different ball game when a customer has to buy a project car, do some work, and may not have the motivation to finish it.
That's a pretty sweet list.My Max also has the black leather interior and it's pretty much mint, I really just love the look of the interior, and no giant LCD screen that 5 years later looks completely dated!
Another car that wasn't on my list but showed up on Kijiji (I'll explain later) is the Mazda Millenia. It was supposed to be Mazda's Acura Legend, Lexus L400, or Infiniti Q45 if they had gone with their plan for the "Amanti" luxury brand. The brand fell through but the cars were sold anyway. They're pretty nice. Very i30 looking to me.
Edit: Apparently these Mazdas are good looking nightmares that no one knows how to work on and has a lot of un-buyable parts for the super charger.
** Kijiji - after the success of Craigslist ebay decided to try their hand at it too with a Craigslist competitor called Kijiji.. It totally failed in the US, but it succeeded so well in Canada that pretty much no one here uses Craigslist. Kijiji is a lot more.. full featured than Craigslist.
Are you familiar with how to do a compression test?
I'm thinking that performing one of those should disclose which if any cylinders don't show as much compression as the others. That's where the leak would be. Try to rent or borrow on of those. You can do the test when the spark plus are out.
Hold the throttle wide open. Also remove the fuel pump fuse. It's on the right side of the fuse box under the dashboard .
Do this before bothwrong with the block test and fluid I mentioned earlier.
Are you familiar with how to do a compression test?
I'm thinking that performing one of those should disclose which if any cylinders don't show as much compression as the others. That's where the leak would be. Try to rent or borrow on of those. You can do the test when the spark plus are out.
Hold the throttle wide open. Also remove the fuel pump fuse. It's on the right side of the fuse box under the dashboard .
Do this before bothwrong with the block test and fluid I mentioned earlier.
Yeah I am. I was thinking of doing that too so with your comment I definitely will. Unfortunately after a week of mild weather a snowstorm and frigid weather is blowing in for the entire weekend so I may have to wait til next weekend to look at this, unfortunately.
Seems that you can manage without the Maxima for a while.
I also have a,second vehicle. Id do the same as you. I'm in the Pacific Northwet. Working in rain sucks.
Although I'm often jealous of the milder weather on the coast I'd rather be working in below freezing sunny days than slightly above freezing rain! You are not boredmder from YouTube are you?
Although I'm often jealous of the milder weather on the coast I'd rather be working in below freezing sunny days than slightly above freezing rain! You are not boredmder from YouTube are you?
it's in the 40s and 50s most of the time.
rain, drizzle, sprinkling, etc. We had sunny weather for the past two weeks. Portland gets 40 inches of moisture a year. Sometimes 1/8 inch a day, but it's frequently just piddling.
Finally, getting around to this. Work has been insanely busy during this pandemic and I've had very little spare time.
Just one question before I start testing everything: I'm wary of idling the car up to operating temp with a milkshake oil, so should I just do a cold compression test and see what that gives me? I'd rather not do another oil change and coolant top up just for a compression test but curious what people think.
It's irritating because I already did one oil change to give it fresh oil to get it around the block into my backyard and that 30 second drive was enough to completely wreck the new oil
have a look at Reallywilstuffs latest post. It shows a close up of his water pump which he removed in his own way.
Look at the black O ring. Notice all the small cracks all around it. All those cracks allow coolant to pass from the water pump into the oil.
Also watch a Scotty Kilmer video from two weeks ago called A serious warning to Ford, Subaru, and Nissan owners. It's about internally mounted water pumps and how they can leak coolant into the oil through the O ring. The Nissan VQ engine is mentioned specificy.
He also said that ware pump issues are often mis-diagnosed as head gasket issues.
I've told both you and really wild stuff that you both have water pump issues, not head gasket problems. Since you don't seem to believe me either, perhaps the Scotty Kilmer video or the photo of really wild stuffs O ring might convince you.
I'm definitely going with the assumption that it's the water pump, the compression test is just to eliminate that as well as some concern that driving it with a leaky pump might have caused premature wear to the rings. Just want to make sure I'm not replacing a pump on an engine that is already too far gone.
I'm definitely going with the assumption that it's the water pump, the compression test is just to eliminate that as well as some concern that driving it with a leaky pump might have caused premature wear to the rings. Just want to make sure I'm not replacing a pump on an engine that is already too far gone.
I suppose that condensation from the water you left in the oil so long could have caused some surface rust on the steel cylinder sleeves. I'd me more concerned about the condition of the bearings.
You will be able to measure that at the secend oil change 50 miles after the car is back in service.
You can buy a decent pump for 50 dollars. The entire project will be 100ish.
Your probable success rate is 90 percent.
Well worth the gamble.
if you don't do this, the car will join many others sent to the junkyard with salvageable engines and a bad water pump.
Pressure test your coolant system you'll know if and where it's leaking! Remove the plugs and place the car on jack stands to see if it is pissing out the timing chain cover or somewhere else!
Pressure test your coolant system you'll know if and where it's leaking! Remove the plugs and place the car on jack stands to see if it is pissing out the timing chain cover or somewhere else!
Unfortunately a leak through the rear water pump O ring cannot be seen.
Both a head gasket and a cracked water pump o ring can leak coolant into the oil.
Most people will assume head gasket.
Which us why I advised both members with this issue to check the color of the spark plugs and take compression readings. A head gasket which holds normal compession is unlikely to leak coolant.
which would indicate the true cause is most likely
a water pump.
So that took forever as both old compression testers I had ended up having cracked hoses, slightly damaged o-rings, or a combination of both.
So after a new compression tester this is what I got. It's not encouraging but this is on a cold engine so maybe its still worth throwing a new pump on it and seeing what happens? It started and idled decent when I last drove it.
Brown is with added oil
So definitely some significant ring blow by on 3 of the cylinders, I suppose my options now are do an oil change and add coolant, idle to temp then do it again or spend the ~$100 to just replace the pump to see what happens.
Oh yeah, spark plugs were all consistently normal looking, no steam cleaning at all.
03-02-2020, 05:07 PM
. I have a very very short list of cars I'd consider that aren't a 4th gen Maxima as a replacement.
