The dreaded ignition slop
11-11-2013, 04:33 PM
#1
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 704
The dreaded ignition slop
This is my description of the "slop" cause of a no-start no-crank condition. I'm putting it here to get it all in one place, so I have an easy thread to link back to.
The symptoms: You turn the key and the starter doesn't turn over, but the dash lights all go on. (If the dash lights don't go on, you probably aren't getting power to the ignition switch, so you should look somewhere else.) I found that if I turned the key enough times, usually I could get it to start. But sometimes it took 10 or 15 tries.
The problem: If you replace your ignition switch, you'll see that it has a T-shaped slot in the face. (Here's a good how-to on replacing your ignition switch:
It's a pretty simple process.) If you look inside the steering column, you'll see a corresponding T-shaped piece of metal. When you turn the key, the metal piece turns the ignition switch and the starter wire gets juice. But over time, a little slop develops between the piece in the key cylinder and the slot in the switch, and the switch won't quiiiiiite turn all the way to engage the starter.
This isn't going to be the case every time you have a no-start no-crank condition. It may well be that your starter is bad or your battery isn't sufficiently charged. This assumes you've already ruled those out as causes. You can check for the problem by taking the ignition switch out of the column (keeping it connected) and using a screwdriver in the slot to start the car. If it starts every time, you probably have the slop problem. However, since the problem is usually intermittent, it may take you a while to decide that it really does start every time with the screwdriver. In the meantime, you've made it ridiculously easy for your friendly neighborhood car thief. And you don't want to use the screwdriver too many times or you may deform the slot. If you have the ignition switch out in the first place, you might as well fix it and put it back in.
The obvious fix, and the one a dealer would no doubt insist on, is to replace the key cylinder. You can do that, but it's a bit of a PITA the first time you do it, and an unnecessary expense. The alternative is just to shim up the slot in the ignition switch to eliminate the slop.
I first tried a piece of electrical tape down in the side of the slot. Here's what that looked like. http://s397.photobucket.com/user/Dbe...ion-1.jpg.html (The circled piece is electrical tape, even though it looks gray.) That worked fine for a while, but eventually the tape worked its way out, probably after a number of hot days. Others have used multiple pieces of duck tape, which might hold longer. But I finally ended up cutting a little piece of coke can to a shape that will fit in the side of the slot, and then super gluing it in. (The shim goes into the side of the slot, not the bottom.) If you look at how I put the tape in, you should get the idea. So far that's worked beautifully.
Incidentally, this isn't a matter of a bad ignition switch. When it first happened, I replaced my ignition switch with a new OEM, and it didn't help. The problem is a result of the piece in the cylinder lock not pushing the ignition switch far enough over to engage the starter. If that's what's happening, a new ignition switch is unlikely to make a difference.
The symptoms: You turn the key and the starter doesn't turn over, but the dash lights all go on. (If the dash lights don't go on, you probably aren't getting power to the ignition switch, so you should look somewhere else.) I found that if I turned the key enough times, usually I could get it to start. But sometimes it took 10 or 15 tries.
The problem: If you replace your ignition switch, you'll see that it has a T-shaped slot in the face. (Here's a good how-to on replacing your ignition switch:
This isn't going to be the case every time you have a no-start no-crank condition. It may well be that your starter is bad or your battery isn't sufficiently charged. This assumes you've already ruled those out as causes. You can check for the problem by taking the ignition switch out of the column (keeping it connected) and using a screwdriver in the slot to start the car. If it starts every time, you probably have the slop problem. However, since the problem is usually intermittent, it may take you a while to decide that it really does start every time with the screwdriver. In the meantime, you've made it ridiculously easy for your friendly neighborhood car thief. And you don't want to use the screwdriver too many times or you may deform the slot. If you have the ignition switch out in the first place, you might as well fix it and put it back in.
The obvious fix, and the one a dealer would no doubt insist on, is to replace the key cylinder. You can do that, but it's a bit of a PITA the first time you do it, and an unnecessary expense. The alternative is just to shim up the slot in the ignition switch to eliminate the slop.
I first tried a piece of electrical tape down in the side of the slot. Here's what that looked like. http://s397.photobucket.com/user/Dbe...ion-1.jpg.html (The circled piece is electrical tape, even though it looks gray.) That worked fine for a while, but eventually the tape worked its way out, probably after a number of hot days. Others have used multiple pieces of duck tape, which might hold longer. But I finally ended up cutting a little piece of coke can to a shape that will fit in the side of the slot, and then super gluing it in. (The shim goes into the side of the slot, not the bottom.) If you look at how I put the tape in, you should get the idea. So far that's worked beautifully.
Incidentally, this isn't a matter of a bad ignition switch. When it first happened, I replaced my ignition switch with a new OEM, and it didn't help. The problem is a result of the piece in the cylinder lock not pushing the ignition switch far enough over to engage the starter. If that's what's happening, a new ignition switch is unlikely to make a difference.
Last edited by DBear; 11-14-2013 at 01:51 PM.
11-11-2013, 07:31 PM
#4
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Join Date: Jan 2013
Posts: 94
I fixed it by folding a business card in half about twice, then cutting it the exact size of the slot in the ignition switch and shoving it in there. It actually worked really well. I did it this way after the electrical tape thing failed.
11-13-2013, 12:35 PM
#6
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Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 704
It definitely has, but there are a lot of bits and pieces (some of them mine). I wanted a thread to send people to that explains it in one place.
It'll be interesting to see how many people add to this. I think it's a pretty common problem.
It'll be interesting to see how many people add to this. I think it's a pretty common problem.
07-28-2014, 03:24 PM
#8
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Join Date: Aug 2012
Location: San Rafael, Ca
Posts: 12
Have been having this exact problem for quite awhile, but now it is getting bad enough to where it is taking ten or fifteen times before it cranks and starts.
I wish I could find a mechanic in my area that was easy to communicate with. The guy I usually go to wants to put in a new ignition switch AND key cylinder. If anyone knows a mechanic in the area of San Rafael, Ca. I could sure use the help. Thanks.
I wish I could find a mechanic in my area that was easy to communicate with. The guy I usually go to wants to put in a new ignition switch AND key cylinder. If anyone knows a mechanic in the area of San Rafael, Ca. I could sure use the help. Thanks.
07-29-2014, 12:44 PM
#10
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Location: Oakland, CA
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emjee--
Can't help you with a mechanic, but the point of my post was that it's an easy fix. If you're at all competent with tools it shouldn't take you long.
FYI, I recently replaced my ignition switch and key cylinder, after some incompetent would-be thief screwed it up. That process isn't too difficult either, but you'll need something like a dremel saw. But about a year later, I started having starting problems, so I put back the old ignition switch, and it's been fine since. (I don't remember whether I had shimmed the old switch or not.) The point being, even a new cylinder might not be a long-term fix.
Can't help you with a mechanic, but the point of my post was that it's an easy fix. If you're at all competent with tools it shouldn't take you long.
FYI, I recently replaced my ignition switch and key cylinder, after some incompetent would-be thief screwed it up. That process isn't too difficult either, but you'll need something like a dremel saw. But about a year later, I started having starting problems, so I put back the old ignition switch, and it's been fine since. (I don't remember whether I had shimmed the old switch or not.) The point being, even a new cylinder might not be a long-term fix.
08-27-2014, 09:37 AM
#11
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 19
Fantastic post. Thanks for putting this all in one place!
Took me 30 minutes and a scrap piece of cardstock to get my car working again. Couldn't be happier that it wasn't actually a dead ignition switch or key cylinder.
Took me 30 minutes and a scrap piece of cardstock to get my car working again. Couldn't be happier that it wasn't actually a dead ignition switch or key cylinder.
08-29-2019, 12:07 PM
#16
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Location: Oakland, CA
Posts: 704
It would have to be a very thin layer. And if you're planning on using it to glue the ignition switch in place, you'll never get it out if you have to replace it (or even test it) in the future...
02-12-2024, 09:55 AM
#20
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 3
This is a very helpful post. I'm having these exact issues with my 1997 Nissan Maxima GLE right now. I was thinking about just replacing the ignition switch, but it sounds like that might not fully solve the problem. My question is about the shim. Where exactly does the shim go? I clicked on the link to the photo, but the photo is no longer available. I would appreciate it if you could post the photo again, or give a detailed description of where to put to put the shim. Thank you in advance to anyone who can provide this additional information!
03-13-2024, 08:52 AM
#21
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Join Date: Feb 2024
Posts: 3
I'm bumping this in hopes of a reply. I need to know specifically where the shim goes. There was a link to a photo, but that link no longer works. Does the shim go inside the walls of the female portion of the ignition switch? Or does it just get inserted somehow in between the ignition switch and the lock cylinder when you screw the ignition switch back on? Any assistance would be appreciated. This problem continues to get worse for me, and for some reason, it is even worse when the car or the weather is warm. I'd like to get this fixed before it starts to get hotter outside. Thank you!
03-18-2024, 07:33 PM
#24
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Join Date: Nov 2000
Posts: 467
I had the same problem recently and changed out the ignition switch which seemed to help for a while, but the problem eventually came back. I did the aluminum slice slop fix next and that seemed to fix the problem for a while until it came back worse than ever. When it didn't start, all the dash lights would come on and I could hear a click every time I tried to start it. Eventually it did start and was strong and normal, so that pointed me to look at the starter relay. When I inspected the relay box I found that the wiper relay was exactly the same as the starter relay, so I swapped them, and so far it has started on the first try every time since I swapped them. I’m hoping this fixes it for good and will report back if it doesn’t.
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