4th gen manual tranny compared to 5th gen
01-09-2012, 01:25 PM
#1
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Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 121
4th gen manual tranny compared to 5th gen
So I know they engine is the same but are there any major differences between the trannys. I know the 2000 has a different kind of speed sensor but all being equal, are there any issues bolting up a 2000 tranny on a 99?
Is there any modification required for wiring or Computer wise?
Is there any modification required for wiring or Computer wise?
01-09-2012, 01:41 PM
#2
it bolts up no problems...i have a 4th gen in my 5th gen right now...if anything...it seems to rev higher...while i'm in 5th going 70 i'm turning about 3200...i think before i was turning 2950, other than that..no problems. but the MPG was not affected.
01-09-2012, 01:53 PM
#3
that is impossible, they have the same gear ratios.
the only possibility is if your previous trans had an altima 5th gear and altima final drive in it (and if that's the case, the numbers are still off by a good bit, but maybe you were just estimating from memory).
to answer your question OP, the only differences that are worth mentioning is that the yoke on the striking rod is slightly different length, meaning if you don't change it your shifter will be positioned about 1" differently than before. 5th gen trans also finally got rid of the trans mount holes for the 3rd gen application (they were still present in the 4th gen trans, even though they were unused).
I see people mention from time to time a difference in the speed sensor, I personally have never noticed a difference between them, but then again I've never gone and looked at all the FSMs to see if there is a difference. I have run multiple 4th and 5th gen transmissions in my 4th gen, but I honestly can't remember if any of the 5th gen transmissions i have owned have actually come with a VSS or if i've always just used the original VSS from my car. i've always just used whatever VSS I've had laying around and never once had an issue.
01-09-2012, 03:14 PM
#4
lol you're going to tell me it's impossible and i'm looking at it in my car right now...before, it was below 3k and now its above 3k. its already been discussed of them having teh same 'gear ratios' but it is what it is, period.
01-09-2012, 03:21 PM
#5
01-09-2012, 03:49 PM
#6
yes, i'm telling you it is impossible. maybe your tach or speedo are off now, but it is impossible for the actual ratio of RPM to speed to change. impossible. i don't care what you think it is, its not possible unless the size of the gears in the transmissions has changed. period.
the most likely scenario is that your memory is wrong, since you say yourself in your thread "if my memory serves me correctly."
your memory is probably not serving you correctly.
01-09-2012, 04:40 PM
#9
I see people mention from time to time a difference in the speed sensor, I personally have never noticed a difference between them, but then again I've never gone and looked at all the FSMs to see if there is a difference. I have run multiple 4th and 5th gen transmissions in my 4th gen, but I honestly can't remember if any of the 5th gen transmissions i have owned have actually come with a VSS or if i've always just used the original VSS from my car. i've always just used whatever VSS I've had laying around and never once had an issue.
A little while later down the timeline, my speedo stopped working. Turns out, my ABS lines were rubbing against something and eventually broke. I spliced them back together and the speedo is working fine now.
01-09-2012, 04:40 PM
#10
no I'm not.
there is one ratio between engine RPM and wheel speed for a manual trans. this ratio is dictated by input rpm, input shaft gear diameter, output shaft gear diameter, and final drive diameter. this ratio cannot change unless one of those gear sizes is changed. that means for any given input speed (engine RPM) there is precisely one output speed.
i've designed, prototyped and built transmissions for 5 years. i was then hired by another transmission manufacturing company to head their QC and technical departments. I've personally designed, protoyped, built, torn down, modified, and machined for over 2000 manual transmissions.
you can go on thinking whatever ridiculous thoughts you want, but you are wrong. the ratio between RPM and speed cannot change in a manual transmission, ever. there is no wiggle room. there is no "well maybe my transmission is a little bit different." there is no room for interpretation or adjustment. water is wet, the sky is blue, and that's how a manual transmission works. period.
i read the thread. what i see is a person or two who understand how the mechanics of a manual transmission work, and a bunch of other people who don't have a goddamned clue which way is up when it comes to manual transmissions. you're one of the latter.
either your clutch is slipping (not by what you described), a gear ratio change has been made (doesn't sound like it), your speedo or tach are off more than they used to be (possible), or your memory is off (most likely, but which you are conveniently saying is not the case even though 1.5 years ago you said it could be the case).
Keep telling yourself that the mechanical laws which make all the above statements true don't apply to your transmissions, keep being misinformed if you wish, but you are, and will remain, wrong.
the end.
01-09-2012, 04:49 PM
#12
I was gonna comment on the gear ratio thing, but.....
....my posts in this thread are still relevant. 
4th and 5th gen tranny internals are the same. One important factor I overlooked is Phat got his tranny from down here in south florida. Chances are, the transmission was rebuilt by a cuban guy who happened to throw an altima 5th gear in...
(only people from down here will probably understand what I mean
)
4th and 5th gen tranny internals are the same. One important factor I overlooked is Phat got his tranny from down here in south florida. Chances are, the transmission was rebuilt by a cuban guy who happened to throw an altima 5th gear in...
(only people from down here will probably understand what I mean
)
01-09-2012, 05:21 PM
#13
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Jacksonville, FL
Posts: 10,349
I was gonna comment on the gear ratio thing, but.....
....my posts in this thread are still relevant.
4th and 5th gen tranny internals are the same. One important factor I overlooked is Phat got his tranny from down here in south florida. Chances are, the transmission was rebuilt by a cuban guy who happened to throw an altima 5th gear in...
(only people from down here will probably understand what I mean)
....my posts in this thread are still relevant.
4th and 5th gen tranny internals are the same. One important factor I overlooked is Phat got his tranny from down here in south florida. Chances are, the transmission was rebuilt by a cuban guy who happened to throw an altima 5th gear in...
(only people from down here will probably understand what I mean
)
01-09-2012, 05:37 PM
#14
Member
Thread Starter
Join Date: Aug 2011
Posts: 121
I'm using a 4th gen transmission in mine with a 5th gen shifter linkage. The shifter sits a little too close to the radio/AC for me. I'm going to try a 4th gen linkage to see if it moves it back a little if any.
A33s use the ABS wheel sensors for the speed signal. there's a block off type of plate bolted to where the VSS would mount on the 4th gen transmisison. I discovered this when we did my 5 speed swap. I had originally assumed I would just plug in or splice in the 4th gen VSS to my harness. But test drove the car without it first and the speedo worked just fine.
A little while later down the timeline, my speedo stopped working. Turns out, my ABS lines were rubbing against something and eventually broke. I spliced them back together and the speedo is working fine now.
A33s use the ABS wheel sensors for the speed signal. there's a block off type of plate bolted to where the VSS would mount on the 4th gen transmisison. I discovered this when we did my 5 speed swap. I had originally assumed I would just plug in or splice in the 4th gen VSS to my harness. But test drove the car without it first and the speedo worked just fine.
A little while later down the timeline, my speedo stopped working. Turns out, my ABS lines were rubbing against something and eventually broke. I spliced them back together and the speedo is working fine now.
01-09-2012, 05:42 PM
#15
Just use the speed sensor that was in your original transmission.
01-09-2012, 05:44 PM
#16
01-09-2012, 09:20 PM
#20
^naw i've changed wheel sizes 4 times since the trans swap, same difference (including OEM wheel size) 3200 at 70 mph...like i said it doesnt affect mpg, nothing...everything is still great on the car, i have no gripes about it
01-10-2012, 04:57 AM
#21
I too am using a 5th gen tranny with no issues. Car drives the same as it did when I had the 4th gen tranny. Except of course for the VLSD
phatboislim, so your saying using the 4th gen tranny your rpms are now up by 250 and yet it didnt effect gas mileage at all?
phatboislim, so your saying using the 4th gen tranny your rpms are now up by 250 and yet it didnt effect gas mileage at all?
01-10-2012, 05:05 AM
#22
@essential the trans didnt look like it was ever opened, so i cant say that it was rebuilt. supposedly they get their parts from Japan...SUPPOSEDLY!!!!
i remember calling them one time for a friend and they said because of the tsunami, they couldnt get any new parts in for a while
01-10-2012, 05:50 AM
#24
@essential the trans didnt look like it was ever opened, so i cant say that it was rebuilt. supposedly they get their parts from Japan...SUPPOSEDLY!!!!
i remember calling them one time for a friend and they said because of the tsunami, they couldnt get any new parts in for a while lol. Edit: hold the fcukin phone! Was the company called "all jap" or something to that matter?
01-10-2012, 05:52 AM
#25
lol i cant remember man, i use to have their number saved...i know they were in south florida though, not too far north of miami i believe.
01-10-2012, 05:52 AM
#26
01-10-2012, 06:08 AM
#27
) when we picked it up, we noticed a few things that looked odd here and there, but nothing that threw a huge red flag. The tranny went on fine. But when we tried to move, there was no reverse. And 1st gear sounded like crap. On top of that, there was a missing bolt on the transmission case that was causing the gear oil to drain. We tried a bolt from another busted tranny we had lying around, but it was a completely different thread pitch. Upon further investigation, there were a lot of miscellaneous things on the transmission that were completely different from all the other 5MTs we've delt with. We went back and exchanged it and the second one was fine. We actually picked the transmissions up from some guys house. everything was shady about them. But for $130 you can't complain too much. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same "company" you delt with. If it was, I'm almost certain the tranny was opened up at one point.
01-10-2012, 07:40 AM
#28
dictates your FINAL gear ratio.
01-10-2012, 07:46 AM
#29
Dude now that I think about it, about a year or so ago, I drove down to Miami to pick up a 5MT for a friend from a "company" that supposedly gets all their stuff from Japan. () when we picked it up, we noticed a few things that looked odd here and there, but nothing that threw a huge red flag. The tranny went on fine. But when we tried to move, there was no reverse. And 1st gear sounded like crap. On top of that, there was a missing bolt on the transmission case that was causing the gear oil to drain. We tried a bolt from another busted tranny we had lying around, but it was a completely different thread pitch. Upon further investigation, there were a lot of miscellaneous things on the transmission that were completely different from all the other 5MTs we've delt with. We went back and exchanged it and the second one was fine.
We actually picked the transmissions up from some guys house. everything was shady about them. But for $130 you can't complain too much. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same "company" you delt with. If it was, I'm almost certain the tranny was opened up at one point.
) when we picked it up, we noticed a few things that looked odd here and there, but nothing that threw a huge red flag. The tranny went on fine. But when we tried to move, there was no reverse. And 1st gear sounded like crap. On top of that, there was a missing bolt on the transmission case that was causing the gear oil to drain. We tried a bolt from another busted tranny we had lying around, but it was a completely different thread pitch. Upon further investigation, there were a lot of miscellaneous things on the transmission that were completely different from all the other 5MTs we've delt with. We went back and exchanged it and the second one was fine. We actually picked the transmissions up from some guys house. everything was shady about them. But for $130 you can't complain too much. I wouldn't be surprised if this was the same "company" you delt with. If it was, I'm almost certain the tranny was opened up at one point.
Wheel size does not mean chit. Outside diiameter of your TIRE
dictates your FINAL gear ratio.
dictates your FINAL gear ratio.
01-10-2012, 10:45 AM
#31
like i mentioned...i ran 70 mph @3200 rpms..regardless...IJS. when teh cops would post up the MPH 'trailers' i'd check my mph and it was always dead on
01-10-2012, 12:06 PM
#32
.5"+ is easily worth 250RPM, and radar trailers are notoriously innacurate, and often set high to slow people down.
Whats more likey;
1 Your memory fails you, and your tire change from before/after tranny swap is it.
2 You have experimental prototype gears that noone else has ever seen.
3 you have cuban Altima finals.
Whats more likey;
1 Your memory fails you, and your tire change from before/after tranny swap is it.
2 You have experimental prototype gears that noone else has ever seen.
3 you have cuban Altima finals.
01-10-2012, 02:54 PM
#37
Also, as we all know, this is how Jime has changed his FD, by using waay smaller than OEM tires for shorter gears, which as we also know, = better acceleration.
Also, just an FYI, the A32 AT and A33 AT do actually have different FD's. Some think it was to accomodate the taller A33 tires.
01-10-2012, 05:19 PM
#39
01-10-2012, 05:21 PM
#40
On my 4th Gen 5speed: cruise control set at 70mph in 5th gear, my rpm sits at exactly 2900rpms on a level road. (no up or down hills)
My car is on 16inch S14 wheels wrapped in 205/55/R16 Dunlop Direzza's. Not sure what the out diameter is but it's slightly smaller then the "standard" size for this car. I do believe the standard size is 245/65/R16 but I could be wrong.
My car is on 16inch S14 wheels wrapped in 205/55/R16 Dunlop Direzza's. Not sure what the out diameter is but it's slightly smaller then the "standard" size for this car. I do believe the standard size is 245/65/R16 but I could be wrong.
Last edited by infinimax96; 01-10-2012 at 05:24 PM.