Brake Upgrade
03-16-2011, 07:18 PM
#1
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Location: Parsippany NJ / Pottstown PA
Posts: 267
Brake Upgrade
so i feel like i cant stop sometimes. lol
if anyone knows whats involved with the 5th gen brake upgrade onto the 4th gen plz lemme know. i need more stopping power!! =D
if anyone knows whats involved with the 5th gen brake upgrade onto the 4th gen plz lemme know. i need more stopping power!! =D
03-16-2011, 07:41 PM
#2
I feel like being a jerk: You mean "Brake Upgrade" instead of "Break Upgrade" right...?
EDIT: Now to be helpful:
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...fifth-gen.html
So, it depends on what size of brakes you want to get. Let us know more information so we can direct you better.
EDIT: Now to be helpful:
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...fifth-gen.html
So, it depends on what size of brakes you want to get. Let us know more information so we can direct you better.
Last edited by Akiyukio; 03-16-2011 at 07:49 PM. Reason: Being helpful.
03-16-2011, 07:50 PM
#3
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Location: Parsippany NJ / Pottstown PA
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I feel like being a jerk: You mean "Brake Upgrade" instead of "Break Upgrade" right...?
EDIT: Now to be helpful:
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...fifth-gen.html
So, it depends on what size of brakes you want to get. Let us know more information so we can direct you better.
EDIT: Now to be helpful:
http://forums.maxima.org/5th-generat...fifth-gen.html
So, it depends on what size of brakes you want to get. Let us know more information so we can direct you better.
lmao. o wow. i just noticed it now. and i looked at it before too and was wondering why it looked weird
03-16-2011, 07:54 PM
#4
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Location: Parsippany NJ / Pottstown PA
Posts: 267
hm alot of undecided thoughts on that post. i basically wanna put the 5.5gen calipers and rotors on the 4thgen or use the 5gen rotors and calipers. either one would be better then what i already have
03-16-2011, 09:09 PM
#5
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 469
No, they probably wouldn't. You need a brake bleed or new tires.
I post this every time the subject comes up, so be ready for a well-practiced tirade. From your profile photo, it looks like you're rolling on stock SE wheels. I have factory SE wheels and pretty fresh Kumhos, and I can lock up my wheels (no ABS). The limit on my braking ability is thus not the brakes, but the tires.
In other words, when the tires are at the limit of locking up, that's maximum braking. Once I've locked the tires, it doesn't matter how much harder I push the pedal - the car will stop no sooner. So if my 4th-gen brakes are at 90% of available force when my wheels lock up, I cannot stop any faster with bigger, "better" brakes. It is not physically possible. Even if I get bigger brakes that can apply more brake torque, my wheels lock up at the same torque. So now when my wheels lock up, I've got 30% of available braking capacity being unused instead of 10 as before.
In other words, if you think you need to stop faster, upgrading your pads, rotors, or calipers will not help you. You cannot stop a foot sooner with those upgrades.
Note that this may not be true if I'm wrong and you haven't got the factory 16s. But on that setup, anything else that came from the factory, and most aftermarket setups besides huge-*** chrome twentysometings, I guarantee you that a brake upgrade will not help. If you feel you need to stop sooner, upgrade your wheels and tires - stickier tires will allow you to use more of the brakes you already have. They're not as much fun or as cool to list in your sig as big brakes or lightweight wheels, but neither of those will help you until you cannot reach your tires' limit of traction.
I post this every time the subject comes up, so be ready for a well-practiced tirade. From your profile photo, it looks like you're rolling on stock SE wheels. I have factory SE wheels and pretty fresh Kumhos, and I can lock up my wheels (no ABS). The limit on my braking ability is thus not the brakes, but the tires.
In other words, when the tires are at the limit of locking up, that's maximum braking. Once I've locked the tires, it doesn't matter how much harder I push the pedal - the car will stop no sooner. So if my 4th-gen brakes are at 90% of available force when my wheels lock up, I cannot stop any faster with bigger, "better" brakes. It is not physically possible. Even if I get bigger brakes that can apply more brake torque, my wheels lock up at the same torque. So now when my wheels lock up, I've got 30% of available braking capacity being unused instead of 10 as before.
In other words, if you think you need to stop faster, upgrading your pads, rotors, or calipers will not help you. You cannot stop a foot sooner with those upgrades.
Note that this may not be true if I'm wrong and you haven't got the factory 16s. But on that setup, anything else that came from the factory, and most aftermarket setups besides huge-*** chrome twentysometings, I guarantee you that a brake upgrade will not help. If you feel you need to stop sooner, upgrade your wheels and tires - stickier tires will allow you to use more of the brakes you already have. They're not as much fun or as cool to list in your sig as big brakes or lightweight wheels, but neither of those will help you until you cannot reach your tires' limit of traction.
03-17-2011, 02:27 PM
#6
Junior Member
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 79
No, they probably wouldn't. You need a brake bleed or new tires.
I post this every time the subject comes up, so be ready for a well-practiced tirade. From your profile photo, it looks like you're rolling on stock SE wheels. I have factory SE wheels and pretty fresh Kumhos, and I can lock up my wheels (no ABS). The limit on my braking ability is thus not the brakes, but the tires.
In other words, when the tires are at the limit of locking up, that's maximum braking. Once I've locked the tires, it doesn't matter how much harder I push the pedal - the car will stop no sooner. So if my 4th-gen brakes are at 90% of available force when my wheels lock up, I cannot stop any faster with bigger, "better" brakes. It is not physically possible. Even if I get bigger brakes that can apply more brake torque, my wheels lock up at the same torque. So now when my wheels lock up, I've got 30% of available braking capacity being unused instead of 10 as before.
In other words, if you think you need to stop faster, upgrading your pads, rotors, or calipers will not help you. You cannot stop a foot sooner with those upgrades.
Note that this may not be true if I'm wrong and you haven't got the factory 16s. But on that setup, anything else that came from the factory, and most aftermarket setups besides huge-*** chrome twentysometings, I guarantee you that a brake upgrade will not help. If you feel you need to stop sooner, upgrade your wheels and tires - stickier tires will allow you to use more of the brakes you already have. They're not as much fun or as cool to list in your sig as big brakes or lightweight wheels, but neither of those will help you until you cannot reach your tires' limit of traction.
I post this every time the subject comes up, so be ready for a well-practiced tirade. From your profile photo, it looks like you're rolling on stock SE wheels. I have factory SE wheels and pretty fresh Kumhos, and I can lock up my wheels (no ABS). The limit on my braking ability is thus not the brakes, but the tires.
In other words, when the tires are at the limit of locking up, that's maximum braking. Once I've locked the tires, it doesn't matter how much harder I push the pedal - the car will stop no sooner. So if my 4th-gen brakes are at 90% of available force when my wheels lock up, I cannot stop any faster with bigger, "better" brakes. It is not physically possible. Even if I get bigger brakes that can apply more brake torque, my wheels lock up at the same torque. So now when my wheels lock up, I've got 30% of available braking capacity being unused instead of 10 as before.
In other words, if you think you need to stop faster, upgrading your pads, rotors, or calipers will not help you. You cannot stop a foot sooner with those upgrades.
Note that this may not be true if I'm wrong and you haven't got the factory 16s. But on that setup, anything else that came from the factory, and most aftermarket setups besides huge-*** chrome twentysometings, I guarantee you that a brake upgrade will not help. If you feel you need to stop sooner, upgrade your wheels and tires - stickier tires will allow you to use more of the brakes you already have. They're not as much fun or as cool to list in your sig as big brakes or lightweight wheels, but neither of those will help you until you cannot reach your tires' limit of traction.
03-17-2011, 03:44 PM
#7
I agree with almost everything you said. However, your argument is flawed. You failed to address the fact that stock brake fade is terrible at best. If you are somebody that drives your car like a granny, this isn't an issue. However, if you are someone who demands more out of your car, you may need an upgrade...I was driving to work somewhat aggressively one day, and in my last 80-0 stop, I had almost no response from the brakes. Not even close to locking up.
Also with a "big brake" upgrade "?" You increase your unsprun wight witch will adversely affect your handling.
A nice upgrade for any car is SS brake lines makes a huge improvement in peadel feel
03-17-2011, 04:58 PM
#9
So once again:
Want to stop hard faster => get wider, stickier tiers.
Want to stop hard often => get bigger breaks.
03-17-2011, 05:07 PM
#10
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Join Date: Aug 2009
Location: Parsippany NJ / Pottstown PA
Posts: 267
i agree with most of your paragraph but like the other guy said im ripping it and there goes someone cutting me off. my foot is to the floor with the brakes and the car shows no sign of locking up anytime soon. i do have abs. but when i had the 01max. i noticed the response from the brakes was alot better. (night and day difference)
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
03-17-2011, 05:12 PM
#11
i agree with most of your paragraph but like the other guy said im ripping it and there goes someone cutting me off. my foot is to the floor with the brakes and the car shows no sign of locking up anytime soon. i do have abs. but when i had the 01max. i noticed the response from the brakes was alot better. (night and day difference)
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
03-17-2011, 05:26 PM
#12
He needs bigger brakes so he can lock up his tires? The ABS prevents that.
It seems like the OP just needs better pad/rotor combo. If bigger brakes are really needed, then z32 brakes. No need to d1ck around with A33/B brakes.
03-17-2011, 05:28 PM
#13
No. No, and no again. As was stated above the limiting factor are your tires. You can only stop as quickly as the traction that you got. Bigger breaks help with break fading. They allow you to use the breaks for a longer period of time and harder.
So once again:
Want to stop hard faster => get wider, stickier tiers.
Want to stop hard often => get bigger breaks.
So once again:
Want to stop hard faster => get wider, stickier tiers.
Want to stop hard often => get bigger breaks.
03-17-2011, 07:45 PM
#14
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 469
i agree with most of your paragraph but like the other guy said im ripping it and there goes someone cutting me off. my foot is to the floor with the brakes and the car shows no sign of locking up anytime soon. i do have abs. but when i had the 01max. i noticed the response from the brakes was alot better. (night and day difference)
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
i have rota dpt's or dpf's (w.e theyre called) 225/45/17s
Before you jump to A33 brakes, though, check your pads and calipers and have your system professionally bled. Also consider a better pad - I hear good things about Hawks, and the AZ Gold pads I'm packing do the job, though not without absurd amounts of dust.
The reasons I'm skeptical: the Rotas you listed are a half-pound lighter than my 16" SEs; much of their mass is admittedly a half-inch farther out, so they will have a higher moment, but I doubt it's enough to make the difference between locking without trouble (mine) and showing no sign of locking (yours). It's not a super economical or safe idea to be looking at brake retrofits when the factory brakes are probably up to the job, after a little adjustment.
03-17-2011, 07:49 PM
#15
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Join Date: Dec 2009
Posts: 469
Regarding brake fade, that's deffo true. Bigger brakes will act as a heat sink. Remember, though: with size, volume increases much faster than surface area; you will have smore mass in which to store the heat generated by your brakes, but not proportionately more surface area to get rid of it. If you're driving hard enough to experience severe brake fade, a bigger rotor only prolongs the inevitable. A vented and drilled rotor would help, I suppose, as would less restrictive wheels.
03-17-2011, 08:44 PM
#17
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Location: CONNECTICUT
Posts: 77
03-18-2011, 02:33 AM
#18
03-18-2011, 05:09 AM
#19
I have stock 4th gen brakes with Hawk HPS pads and sticky summer tires. I have no problem locking all of my wheels (well, I feel the ABS pulse) and I've never had a noticeable problem with brake fade. I describe my driving style as spirited.
No one mentioned the master cylinder yet. This is where the hydraulic pressure is made, and if it's worn, it is not making as much pressure. Check that first. If it checks out, buy Brembo blanks and Hawk HPS pads, or a similar high performance street pad. Don't get race compound pads and try to use them on the street.
No one mentioned the master cylinder yet. This is where the hydraulic pressure is made, and if it's worn, it is not making as much pressure. Check that first. If it checks out, buy Brembo blanks and Hawk HPS pads, or a similar high performance street pad. Don't get race compound pads and try to use them on the street.
03-18-2011, 08:39 AM
#20
'00-'01 rotors/pads/calipers are almost the same as the 4th gen so that's a huge waste of time and money if you're going to go that route. If you're looking for a BBK, 5.5 or 6th gen brakes would be what you want but is that really necessary?
Simply put the answer is no. Go with Hawk HPS pads and Brembo blank rotors, I've heard that they're really good compared to stock or OE stuff but can't speak from experience unfortunately.
Simply put the answer is no. Go with Hawk HPS pads and Brembo blank rotors, I've heard that they're really good compared to stock or OE stuff but can't speak from experience unfortunately.
Last edited by ChrisMan287; 03-19-2011 at 08:27 PM.
03-19-2011, 04:22 PM
#22
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Location: Parsippany NJ / Pottstown PA
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'00-'01 rotors/pads/calipers are almost the same as the 4th gen so that's a huge waste of time and money if you're going to go that route. If you're looking for a BBK, 5.5 or 6th gen brakes would be what you want but is that really necessary?
Simply answer is no. Go with Hawk HPS pads and Brembo blank rotors, I've heard that they're really good compared to stock or OE stuff but can't speak from experience unfortunately.
Simply answer is no. Go with Hawk HPS pads and Brembo blank rotors, I've heard that they're really good compared to stock or OE stuff but can't speak from experience unfortunately.
simple fix. i like it. lol.
03-19-2011, 05:35 PM
#25
Iv got 5.5 gen brakes in front easyest bbk upgrade Imo ..all i had to do was drill out the stock 4gen hub to 9/16ths cut the dust shield thats it.. iv got ceramic pads ,drilled & slotted discs, ss lines,..made a huge diffrence...i payed 300$ for eveything...
03-19-2011, 06:05 PM
#26
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for some reason i cant really comprehend what you drilled out. you got a pic? im thinking ur drilling the knuckle for some reason
03-20-2011, 10:21 AM
#30
07-09-2012, 01:26 PM
#34
does anybody know how to get rid of the annoying squeaking noise that the brakes make? ive noticed alot of 4th generations in new england doing it. i have replace the calipers the brake pads and the rotors and even replaced the rotors a second time thinking its cause they are warped...still same noise. does anybody know what it could be? i mean i stop on a dime it just squeaks
07-09-2012, 02:52 PM
#36
does anybody know how to get rid of the annoying squeaking noise that the brakes make? ive noticed alot of 4th generations in new england doing it. i have replace the calipers the brake pads and the rotors and even replaced the rotors a second time thinking its cause they are warped...still same noise. does anybody know what it could be? i mean i stop on a dime it just squeaks
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