which swap should i do? de or dek?
12-24-2010, 07:51 PM
#1
which swap should i do? de or dek?
ok so...im at 240000 miles and the motor is still running fairly strong...my power steering pump is going out, and the engine is getting a lil louder than it used to so...im looking to swap my engine but done know what to go with. im gonna do either just a younger engine or go to a dek....which would yall go with? i dont have the money to go witha vq35...so thats pretty much outta the question. im happy with the way the vq30 performs but just want something younger...
i plan on putting the new motor on a stand and changing the timing chain, and necessary gaskets...what else should i change while the motors out....im thnkin polly pro mounts as well....?? any imput would be great.
last but not least. wheree should i get an engine...i would rather find someone on the org to buy from vrs a junk yard...although that is not totally out of the equation lol
thanks!
tim
i plan on putting the new motor on a stand and changing the timing chain, and necessary gaskets...what else should i change while the motors out....im thnkin polly pro mounts as well....?? any imput would be great.
last but not least. wheree should i get an engine...i would rather find someone on the org to buy from vrs a junk yard...although that is not totally out of the equation lol
thanks!tim
12-24-2010, 08:00 PM
#2
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fuk 301 it's 410 Bal Md black/purple.
Posts: 1,860
If your going to drop in the DEK than your pretty much gonna have to change the fuel rails and coils to 5th gens and the manifolds and some other things that I can't think of right know. But the main point here is that your gonna have to change up the settings if your gonna drop in the DEK vs the reg vq30de that you already have. It will probally be better and cheap to go with the DE.
12-24-2010, 08:02 PM
#3
agreed, if i were to go witha dek, i would just get everything i need from the junkyard (if thats where i got it) so i could come home and basically just drop it in, but i know it isnt that easy haha so im kinda leaning towards a younger de then....but i still want more feedback plz
so im kinda leaning towards a younger de then....but i still want more feedback plz
12-24-2010, 08:25 PM
#4
Since you dont seem to be doing this for a power benefit, just get whatever you can with lower miles, but at a good cost. There is nothing hard about a dek swap really. And if you find a dek for a better deal than a DE, but you dont wanna mess around with making the 00vi work properly, you can just swap your old DE manifolds and fuel rails onto the dek. This will make the swap basically plug and play. Then you can sell a complete 00VI swap setup for cash back in your pocket.
False. Stock 4th gen coils work fine. I'm currently running them in my dek and so is many other locals with dek/00VI setups.
False. Stock 4th gen coils work fine. I'm currently running them in my dek and so is many other locals with dek/00VI setups.
12-24-2010, 08:47 PM
#5
thanks!, and i am in it for the power end of it....but dont wanna spend a ton of money, or i would do the 3.5 lol. i am kinda interested in the 6mt eventually but thats down the line....probable after maxus...but my car will hvae a new engine, and body work/paint job by maxus! so to do a dek, would i need the 00-01 ecu? im 5mt right now so if i did go dek, would i have to get a new clutch again?
12-24-2010, 09:01 PM
#6
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fuk 301 it's 410 Bal Md black/purple.
Posts: 1,860
thanks!, and i am in it for the power end of it....but dont wanna spend a ton of money, or i would do the 3.5 lol. i am kinda interested in the 6mt eventually but thats down the line....probable after maxus...but my car will hvae a new engine, and body work/paint job by maxus! so to do a dek, would i need the 00-01 ecu? im 5mt right now so if i did go dek, would i have to get a new clutch again?
I don't think your gonna have to drop the 00-01 ECU in unless your droping the 00-01 engine in. Basicily your just doing cam work on the top of your engine DE to a DEK. The 3.5 swap your gonna throw more money than just doing the DEK because, This where your gonna have to change up the ECU and the wire harness and customize a way to make your motor mounts fit the 3.5 L engine to make run right. I don't think your gonna have to change the clutch just because of the DEK. If your clutch is slipping and the car is responding badly to your shifting that is when your gonna have to change the clutch.
12-25-2010, 05:34 AM
#7
thanks!, and i am in it for the power end of it....but dont wanna spend a ton of money, or i would do the 3.5 lol. i am kinda interested in the 6mt eventually but thats down the line....probable after maxus...but my car will hvae a new engine, and body work/paint job by maxus! so to do a dek, would i need the 00-01 ecu? im 5mt right now so if i did go dek, would i have to get a new clutch again?
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/4...swap-info.html
I don't think your gonna have to drop the 00-01 ECU in unless your droping the 00-01 engine in. Basicily your just doing cam work on the top of your engine DE to a DEK. The 3.5 swap your gonna throw more money than just doing the DEK because, This where your gonna have to change up the ECU and the wire harness and customize a way to make your motor mounts fit the 3.5 L engine to make run right. I don't think your gonna have to change the clutch just because of the DEK. If your clutch is slipping and the car is responding badly to your shifting that is when your gonna have to change the clutch.
12-25-2010, 08:39 PM
#9
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: Fuk 301 it's 410 Bal Md black/purple.
Posts: 1,860
No ecu change is needed for the dek swap or the 3.5 swap. The dek swap is virtually a direct swap. The 3.5 swap is not as hard as people make it either. And other than the cost of the motor being a little more, its not that much more (shop around and you might score one for less than a 3.0) expensive either. Take your time and read the all motor section. All this info has been beaten to death and its all over the stickies. I'll even go the extra mile and link you to it.
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/4...swap-info.html
Dude, not to be rude, but what in the hell are you talking about? Stop typing out your rear end and start reading. This info is all over the place. Again, i'm not trying to be rude, but everything you have said so far couldnt be anymore outragously wrong.
http://forums.maxima.org/all-motor/4...swap-info.html
Dude, not to be rude, but what in the hell are you talking about? Stop typing out your rear end and start reading. This info is all over the place. Again, i'm not trying to be rude, but everything you have said so far couldnt be anymore outragously wrong.
If, IIRC I was reading on some of the things here and when they were talking about swaping to a 3.5L the car has to have some changes with the ECU and the harness wires to get it running right and to give it a correct fuel map and so on.
12-25-2010, 09:22 PM
#10
DUde i am not talking out of me **** I know what I am talking about. I think your being rude and picking on people.
If, IIRC I was reading on some of the things here and when they were talking about swaping to a 3.5L the car has to have some changes with the ECU and the harness wires to get it running right and to give it a correct fuel map and so on.
If, IIRC I was reading on some of the things here and when they were talking about swaping to a 3.5L the car has to have some changes with the ECU and the harness wires to get it running right and to give it a correct fuel map and so on.
It seems like you have somewhat of an idea of what goes on in these swaps, yet think you know more than you actually do. I suggest you read up on these swaps and re-read what you posted in this thread. Then you should see where we're coming from.
Last edited by schmellyfart; 12-25-2010 at 09:26 PM.
12-26-2010, 05:59 AM
#11
DUde i am not talking out of me **** I know what I am talking about. I think your being rude and picking on people.
If, IIRC I was reading on some of the things here and when they were talking about swaping to a 3.5L the car has to have some changes with the ECU and the harness wires to get it running right and to give it a correct fuel map and so on.
If, IIRC I was reading on some of the things here and when they were talking about swaping to a 3.5L the car has to have some changes with the ECU and the harness wires to get it running right and to give it a correct fuel map and so on.
I don't think your gonna have to drop the 00-01 ECU in unless your droping the 00-01 engine in.
Show me someone who swapped a 00-001 ecu with a dek swap and I'll show you someone who wasted his time and money. Its virtually a direct swap. Only "wiring" involved is splicing the injector clips and extending the rear coilpack wires just to get some slack.
Basicily your just doing cam work on the top of your engine DE to a DEK.
WTF? The cam specs between the DE and DEK are so close to begin with that any difference in performance increase/decrease from the cams are minimal at best. And no, your not "just doing cam work"
The 3.5 swap your gonna throw more money than just doing the DEK because, This where your gonna have to change up the ECU and the wire harness
This is the only thing you said that even somewhat makes sense. You very well can do a complete harness and ecu swap to make the 3.5 work. This in theory is deffinately a more effective swap as far as power is concerned because you keep variable cam timing on the intake cams. I've never attempted this swap so I'm not gonna talk out my **** on the difficulty of this.
But you can do a 3.5 swap while retaining the factory harness and ecu, you lose all variable cam timing functions, but you still get an increase in power obviously. The procedure is in the stickies. And after the motor is prepped, it is basically a direct swap.
and customize a way to make your motor mounts fit the 3.5 L engine to make run right.
Motor mounts are the same and dont control engine function (fuel delivery, ignition, compression) so I dont know how that will make the engine "run right"
Show me someone who swapped a 00-001 ecu with a dek swap and I'll show you someone who wasted his time and money. Its virtually a direct swap. Only "wiring" involved is splicing the injector clips and extending the rear coilpack wires just to get some slack.
Basicily your just doing cam work on the top of your engine DE to a DEK.
WTF? The cam specs between the DE and DEK are so close to begin with that any difference in performance increase/decrease from the cams are minimal at best. And no, your not "just doing cam work"
The 3.5 swap your gonna throw more money than just doing the DEK because, This where your gonna have to change up the ECU and the wire harness
This is the only thing you said that even somewhat makes sense. You very well can do a complete harness and ecu swap to make the 3.5 work. This in theory is deffinately a more effective swap as far as power is concerned because you keep variable cam timing on the intake cams. I've never attempted this swap so I'm not gonna talk out my **** on the difficulty of this.
But you can do a 3.5 swap while retaining the factory harness and ecu, you lose all variable cam timing functions, but you still get an increase in power obviously. The procedure is in the stickies. And after the motor is prepped, it is basically a direct swap.
and customize a way to make your motor mounts fit the 3.5 L engine to make run right.
Motor mounts are the same and dont control engine function (fuel delivery, ignition, compression) so I dont know how that will make the engine "run right"
Like I said, im not being rude, but if someone in the future is considering one of these swaps and actually SEARCHES for info, I dont want them to pull up such wrong information.
12-26-2010, 06:17 AM
#12
<<-- LIKES THIS 
You can and there is a guy on the forum who did the DEK with harness swap. No cold start issue using all DEK TB & IACV. Also if you want to use the swirl valves, the harness allows the use of it.
Personally think its a waste cause your tunning options are greater for 95-98 ECUs. most people are trying to go from 99 - 01 ECU to 95/96 ECUs
You can and there is a guy on the forum who did the DEK with harness swap. No cold start issue using all DEK TB & IACV. Also if you want to use the swirl valves, the harness allows the use of it.
Personally think its a waste cause your tunning options are greater for 95-98 ECUs. most people are trying to go from 99 - 01 ECU to 95/96 ECUs
12-26-2010, 06:45 AM
#13
<<-- LIKES THIS
You can and there is a guy on the forum who did the DEK with harness swap. No cold start issue using all DEK TB & IACV. Also if you want to use the swirl valves, the harness allows the use of it.
Personally think its a waste cause your tunning options are greater for 95-98 ECUs. most people are trying to go from 99 - 01 ECU to 95/96 ECUs
You can and there is a guy on the forum who did the DEK with harness swap. No cold start issue using all DEK TB & IACV. Also if you want to use the swirl valves, the harness allows the use of it.
Personally think its a waste cause your tunning options are greater for 95-98 ECUs. most people are trying to go from 99 - 01 ECU to 95/96 ECUs
12-26-2010, 12:33 PM
#15
I've worked on 3.5, 3.0, and dek swaps on multiple occasions. Nothing you said was correct. You sir, are talking out your **** 100%. Here, i'll take the time out my day to show you exactly where.
Like I said, im not being rude, but if someone in the future is considering one of these swaps and actually SEARCHES for info, I dont want them to pull up such wrong information.
Like I said, im not being rude, but if someone in the future is considering one of these swaps and actually SEARCHES for info, I dont want them to pull up such wrong information.
12-26-2010, 08:38 PM
#16
imo, if you dont go dek youre making a silly decision. for one, 9 times out of 10 the dek you find will have lower mileage than a DE that you can find. two, the price difference between them is probably very minimal. at the salvage yards here, deks are 450. AND, if there is a price difference, it is made up if you sell the 00vi setup. and youll likely make a little money off of the whole deal. You can always buy a dek, and just use your usim, but why? like mentioned before, the dek is almost a direct swap, with a litttttttle wiring to be done.
12-27-2010, 10:59 PM
#17
ugh....so much to choose from haha:/....i do plan on going f/i eventually....does either engine have positives or negatives to f/i whether it be turbo or charge?
charge meaning supercharger* lol sorry
charge meaning supercharger* lol sorry
Last edited by NmexMAX; 01-20-2011 at 11:53 AM.
12-27-2010, 11:07 PM
#18
Member
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 116
Just out of curiosity what kind of power gains do you get from the dek and the 3.5 swap? I'm thinking later on down the line once my engine starts going to just get a new engine instead of a new car. Everyone tells me no get a new car its not worth the money but I say bull I love the 4th gen Maximas I can't see myself driving anything else. Bottom line I want the Maxima I have now and more power too so if it's worth spending a little more for the power I'll be more than happy to do that.
12-28-2010, 11:29 AM
#19
well, youre going to make more power in the higher rpms with the dek because of the intake manifold regardless of what you do.
12-28-2010, 02:46 PM
#20
If I had to swap engines and trannies I would go DEK aswell becuase they are newer, tend to have less miles, and dont cost much more then a DE.
Not to mention if you get the 2000VI portion of it working properly you get
a "small" gas mileage increase and 30 more HP versus the old DE.
Tsheffler I just noticed you said you drive the 5 speed version, your going to love the DEK then :]
Last edited by defiance; 12-29-2010 at 09:49 AM.
12-28-2010, 07:47 PM
#21
ok so im pretty much getting from you all that if i can find a dek at a junkyard for the same price of a de then i should just suck it up and do it. I will probably use the same trans and clutch that i have now and pull as much from the junk car as i can as far as injectors, fuel rail, etc..
.im assuming from what i asked earlier that i dont need the ecu....but someone said that the newer ecu has different air/fuel....rev limiters...etc...so should i grab it if i can get it? obviously out of a 5mt... umm....what else should i get out of the car when i pull everything?
.im assuming from what i asked earlier that i dont need the ecu....but someone said that the newer ecu has different air/fuel....rev limiters...etc...so should i grab it if i can get it? obviously out of a 5mt... umm....what else should i get out of the car when i pull everything?
12-28-2010, 08:06 PM
#22
well, i would assume if you find a dek, it will come with everything you need (injectors, fuel rail, etc) unless someone took it all apart. the only thing i would recommend you trying to find would be the fuel dampeners if they arent still attached, or a fitting for the fuel rail to adapt to your existing fuel lines. the newer ecu does not have a different rev limiter. sure, itll be optimized for the injectors etc, but still not worth trying to rewire your car. get something to tune with instead (afc, emanage, etc).
12-29-2010, 08:24 PM
#24
well, the DE fuel rail has a barb fitting on one end for the fuel line, where as the DEK fuel rail has a fuel dampener on one end. if the fuel dampener is there u can just connect your fuel line to it, but if its not there youll have to find a way to connect your line to the fuel rail. in that case youll need some kind of fuel rail adaptor... or drill out a fuel pressure regulator and use it as an adaptor.
01-16-2011, 12:25 PM
#26
DEK does have coated lower friction internals + added block cooling. the exuast cams are slightly more agressive as opposed to DE that has slightly more aggressive intake cams...
I found a dek locally for $350. 74k miles. picked it up and sold the 00vi on it for $250 as entire manifold/fuel setup package becuase it was getting a custom Intake setup.
so now 100$ later a 160k + abused, boosted motor is replaced with a clean 74k motor that doesnt even have the slightest ticking of any sort. Almost makes me not want to FI it just cause its smooth. AND I GOT and i30 engine cover SWeet.
I found a dek locally for $350. 74k miles. picked it up and sold the 00vi on it for $250 as entire manifold/fuel setup package becuase it was getting a custom Intake setup.
so now 100$ later a 160k + abused, boosted motor is replaced with a clean 74k motor that doesnt even have the slightest ticking of any sort. Almost makes me not want to FI it just cause its smooth. AND I GOT and i30 engine cover SWeet.
01-16-2011, 04:01 PM
#29
im going to get a motor tomorrow morning. 375$ w/ 19k, its been sitting ona shelf for 10 9 years because one of the top trans mounting holes are broke. the ear is broken off, but as of right now im fine with that. ill see when i get there. if it one of the top two im not worried about it. its been tested for leaks/ compression etc and has a 90 day warrenty so ima do that!
01-17-2011, 10:02 AM
#30
im going to get a motor tomorrow morning. 375$ w/ 19k, its been sitting ona shelf for 10 9 years because one of the top trans mounting holes are broke. the ear is broken off, but as of right now im fine with that. ill see when i get there. if it one of the top two im not worried about it. its been tested for leaks/ compression etc and has a 90 day warrenty so ima do that!
Im geussing thats a DE if its sitting for 10 years...
01-17-2011, 03:44 PM
#31
well i went today for the motor, the one that had 19 was alot more damaged than specified, since it sat so long and was so high and out of reach, nobody *really* took a good look at it. the oil pan was destroyed, the trans mount ear was crack and the crack made its way into the block. long story short i didnt get that one, luckly they had another one but it had 106k on it so i got it anyways. i came all that way i wasnt going to leave without a motor lol. and it was a dek.
01-17-2011, 05:38 PM
#32
The motors will run forever anyway. You could try getting a VAFC2 and using the vtec controller to flip your DEK intake manifold, bonus is tune it with the VAFC2. I got my VAFC2 for $150 so its a affordable solution.
I'd consider a new water pump if you are doing the chains. Also, you may want to swap your DEK Intake cams to DE intake cams as I said in a PM. It may not be worth the effort of taking the cam bolts and journals off.
I'd consider a new water pump if you are doing the chains. Also, you may want to swap your DEK Intake cams to DE intake cams as I said in a PM. It may not be worth the effort of taking the cam bolts and journals off.
Last edited by ampire; 01-17-2011 at 05:43 PM.
01-17-2011, 10:20 PM
#33
The motors will run forever anyway. You could try getting a VAFC2 and using the vtec controller to flip your DEK intake manifold, bonus is tune it with the VAFC2. I got my VAFC2 for $150 so its a affordable solution.
I'd consider a new water pump if you are doing the chains. Also, you may want to swap your DEK Intake cams to DE intake cams as I said in a PM. It may not be worth the effort of taking the cam bolts and journals off.
I'd consider a new water pump if you are doing the chains. Also, you may want to swap your DEK Intake cams to DE intake cams as I said in a PM. It may not be worth the effort of taking the cam bolts and journals off.
Just curious but what will the DE intake cams do for the DEK ?
01-18-2011, 07:14 AM
#35
To the OP, I have a spare set of 3.5 cams for sale if you wanna go ahead and toss those in.
01-18-2011, 07:39 AM
#36
01-18-2011, 12:51 PM
#37
lol ive thought about it, but really dont wanna tear down a motor for cams, ive read some threads on it,and im not seeing the gains vrs work. is there a way to take the cams out w/out taking the timing covers off?
it wont be going in for another week or so *at most* because i have to get a buddy of mine weld the lower rad support to fix it, i also need to do some searching cuz they'res a few tubes/ and nipples that are unused or open ended, and i need to find out where they go etc. and i need to figurre out how i want to do the fuel system.
it wont be going in for another week or so *at most* because i have to get a buddy of mine weld the lower rad support to fix it, i also need to do some searching cuz they'res a few tubes/ and nipples that are unused or open ended, and i need to find out where they go etc. and i need to figurre out how i want to do the fuel system.
01-18-2011, 02:43 PM
#38
lol ive thought about it, but really dont wanna tear down a motor for cams, ive read some threads on it,and im not seeing the gains vrs work. is there a way to take the cams out w/out taking the timing covers off?
it wont be going in for another week or so *at most* because i have to get a buddy of mine weld the lower rad support to fix it, i also need to do some searching cuz they'res a few tubes/ and nipples that are unused or open ended, and i need to find out where they go etc. and i need to figurre out how i want to do the fuel system.
it wont be going in for another week or so *at most* because i have to get a buddy of mine weld the lower rad support to fix it, i also need to do some searching cuz they'res a few tubes/ and nipples that are unused or open ended, and i need to find out where they go etc. and i need to figurre out how i want to do the fuel system.
Most of the vacum ports can just be blocked off on a dek when swaping it into a 4th gen. Its alot more simple than it seems. And as far as the fuel goes, as long as you got the complete fuel rail and injectors with both fuel dampeners, its simple.
01-19-2011, 01:21 PM
#39
Ok so today I deleted the swirl valves completely...will Jb weld the holes when I stop at a store n get it. Now...my next question is: can that box on the side of the intake be taken off and blocked off or can I just plug the T fitting which I believe goes across the intake to control the butterfly valves... any input will help with this swap thanks!
01-19-2011, 01:27 PM
#40
Ok so today I deleted the swirl valves completely...will Jb weld the holes when I stop at a store n get it. Now...my next question is: can that box on the side of the intake be taken off and blocked off or can I just plug the T fitting which I believe goes across the intake to control the butterfly valves... any input will help with this swap thanks!