Reply ONLY if you are 100% sure why my engine dies exactly 2 min. after starting
03-01-2010, 09:03 AM
#1
4th UPDATE! Gremlins are back. Thread moved to WIERD CAR STALLING post
4th UPDATE:
I am merging this discussion with my original thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...g-problem.html
--------------
I spoke to the local Infiniti Serive Manager who began working on I30's beginning in 1998 (my model year).
He said that, in 1999, a 14-page bulletin was issued by Infiniti for all 98-99 I30's about breaks in the EGI harness that can trigger all sorts of CEL's, beginning with P1105, P0400/P1400, and about every other drivability issue you can name (which is also why we have a diverse set of solutions offered here - including taking it to Infiniti service and let them figure it out).
BTW, thanks for everyone's suggestions.
The problem I have is one that has not resurfaced in the past 10 years ago since the bulletin was issued.
At least, not at Infiniti here. But, if this is what happened to me, then it may have happened to others as well at some time.
He gave me the name of the guy who was Infiniti's Serv. Mgr years before he arrived. He now runs his own shop, and I spoke with him to set up an appointment for Wednesday.
So, I will be back on here, Wednesday evening, to let you all know what happened - hopefully, with a solution to the problem. If may be just a matter of a broken wire, but FINDING the wire is the time-consuming part.
Oh, and I should also mention that I hooked up a multimeter with some very long leads to the MAP/BARO connector, so that I could turn the ignition switch ON, and be able to read it 5 seconds later.
Goose egg: no measurable current, which tends to reinforce the idea of a break or short in the wires, assuming, of course, that I would have gotten one if everything was working.
Stay tuned.
========================
Here is the problem:
My car starts fine...runs for exactly two minutes and then dies - regardless of whether I am sitting at idle or cruising at or below 35 mph. Restarting it is like having a flooded carburetor (for those who have ever experienced one), and takes 30sec to 1 min. of constant cranking.
You can set your watch by it.
Speaking of "watch," I watch the tach needle start off at 1100rpm and from there it is 800, 600, 300, RIP.
HOWEVER, after starting, if I manage to make it onto the highway (or an open road where I can cruise 45+) BEFORE the two minute mark, the car will get over that "hump" between COLD and WARM, with nothing more serious than a hiccup, and operate just fine from there on, including restarts -- but only if it is still close to operating temperature.
Alternately, if I let it sit at idle and keep my foot glued to the gas pedal, waiting to mash it when the revs start to plunge, and then keeping the revs above 2000, I make it through the "danger zone;" i.e., lots of sputtering, backfiring, and a whole lot of shakin' going' on.
Let it sit for 10-15 minutes and that is 10-15 minutes too long.
But, let it sit for an hour or more, and it goes back to Square One of the START-DIE-RESTART cycle.
Warmer weather tends to speed up the cycle just as colder weather slows it down.
Operationally, everything seems is tied to engine temperature, but after looking at the system description in the FSM under P1105, I cannot see the logic behind the function.
The MAP/BARO Switch Solenoid Valve is normally OFF, and the conditions under which it comes ON reads like a lease agreement:
I mean, ALL THIS is required to switch from (a) monitoring intake manifold pressure - which almost always is the case - to (b) monitoring ambient barometric pressure - under these precise conditions???
To me, this process sounds like an Emissions Tweak - not an Engine Killer!
On the other hand, the ECU is simultaneously monitoring the engine speed via POS (crankshaft position sensor) the vehicle speed (VPS), ignition switch (START/OFF), and the TPS (throttle position sensor) just to determine whether or not there is this confluence among these sensors that justifies turning this SOB ON?
What the FSM does not say is for how long the switch remains ON after these conditions.
What kind of feedback loop is established here among these five sensors? If the MAP/BARO switch does not come ON when it is supposed to, then does the ECU go postal and start screwing around with the input signal from any of the four sensors?
Here is the CEL history (which began two years ago):
Q1: First code thrown was a P0400/P1400 bad EGR solenoid/valve/dirty tube syndrome.
A1: Cleaned out the EGR tube, stopped using Hess gas, and CEL went off.
A year goes by, then
Q2: Second time the P0400/P1400 came on.
A2: EGR solenoid and valve were replaced, tube cleaned, vacuum lines and electrical continuity checked.
Q2: First code gone, but now the code is P1105 bad MAP/BARO sensor/solenoid, or possible bad MAF.
A2: MAF is fine and not the problem. But, I am not able to test the MAP sensor and/or solenoid given that the FSM instructions require the car to run for 5 minutes after starting.
OK, folks. Have at it. I am going to call the local NISSAN/INFINITI service mgrs and see what they can tell me.
I am merging this discussion with my original thread:
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...g-problem.html
--------------
I spoke to the local Infiniti Serive Manager who began working on I30's beginning in 1998 (my model year).
He said that, in 1999, a 14-page bulletin was issued by Infiniti for all 98-99 I30's about breaks in the EGI harness that can trigger all sorts of CEL's, beginning with P1105, P0400/P1400, and about every other drivability issue you can name (which is also why we have a diverse set of solutions offered here - including taking it to Infiniti service and let them figure it out).
BTW, thanks for everyone's suggestions.
The problem I have is one that has not resurfaced in the past 10 years ago since the bulletin was issued.
At least, not at Infiniti here. But, if this is what happened to me, then it may have happened to others as well at some time.
He gave me the name of the guy who was Infiniti's Serv. Mgr years before he arrived. He now runs his own shop, and I spoke with him to set up an appointment for Wednesday.
So, I will be back on here, Wednesday evening, to let you all know what happened - hopefully, with a solution to the problem. If may be just a matter of a broken wire, but FINDING the wire is the time-consuming part.
Oh, and I should also mention that I hooked up a multimeter with some very long leads to the MAP/BARO connector, so that I could turn the ignition switch ON, and be able to read it 5 seconds later.
Goose egg: no measurable current, which tends to reinforce the idea of a break or short in the wires, assuming, of course, that I would have gotten one if everything was working.
Stay tuned.
========================
Here is the problem:
My car starts fine...runs for exactly two minutes and then dies - regardless of whether I am sitting at idle or cruising at or below 35 mph. Restarting it is like having a flooded carburetor (for those who have ever experienced one), and takes 30sec to 1 min. of constant cranking.
You can set your watch by it.
Speaking of "watch," I watch the tach needle start off at 1100rpm and from there it is 800, 600, 300, RIP.
HOWEVER, after starting, if I manage to make it onto the highway (or an open road where I can cruise 45+) BEFORE the two minute mark, the car will get over that "hump" between COLD and WARM, with nothing more serious than a hiccup, and operate just fine from there on, including restarts -- but only if it is still close to operating temperature.
Alternately, if I let it sit at idle and keep my foot glued to the gas pedal, waiting to mash it when the revs start to plunge, and then keeping the revs above 2000, I make it through the "danger zone;" i.e., lots of sputtering, backfiring, and a whole lot of shakin' going' on.
Let it sit for 10-15 minutes and that is 10-15 minutes too long.
But, let it sit for an hour or more, and it goes back to Square One of the START-DIE-RESTART cycle.
Warmer weather tends to speed up the cycle just as colder weather slows it down.
Operationally, everything seems is tied to engine temperature, but after looking at the system description in the FSM under P1105, I cannot see the logic behind the function.
The MAP/BARO Switch Solenoid Valve is normally OFF, and the conditions under which it comes ON reads like a lease agreement:
- For 5 seconds after turning ON the ignition switch
-OR-
--- - For 5 seconds after 5 minutes from starting engine
-OR-
--- - More than 5 minutes after the solenoid valve shuts OFF
-AND-
--- - Throttle valve is shut or almost fully shut for more than 5 seconds
-AND-
--- - Vehicle speed is less than 62mph
I mean, ALL THIS is required to switch from (a) monitoring intake manifold pressure - which almost always is the case - to (b) monitoring ambient barometric pressure - under these precise conditions???
To me, this process sounds like an Emissions Tweak - not an Engine Killer!
On the other hand, the ECU is simultaneously monitoring the engine speed via POS (crankshaft position sensor) the vehicle speed (VPS), ignition switch (START/OFF), and the TPS (throttle position sensor) just to determine whether or not there is this confluence among these sensors that justifies turning this SOB ON?
What the FSM does not say is for how long the switch remains ON after these conditions.
What kind of feedback loop is established here among these five sensors? If the MAP/BARO switch does not come ON when it is supposed to, then does the ECU go postal and start screwing around with the input signal from any of the four sensors?
Here is the CEL history (which began two years ago):
Q1: First code thrown was a P0400/P1400 bad EGR solenoid/valve/dirty tube syndrome.
A1: Cleaned out the EGR tube, stopped using Hess gas, and CEL went off.
A year goes by, then
Q2: Second time the P0400/P1400 came on.
A2: EGR solenoid and valve were replaced, tube cleaned, vacuum lines and electrical continuity checked.
Q2: First code gone, but now the code is P1105 bad MAP/BARO sensor/solenoid, or possible bad MAF.
A2: MAF is fine and not the problem. But, I am not able to test the MAP sensor and/or solenoid given that the FSM instructions require the car to run for 5 minutes after starting.
OK, folks. Have at it. I am going to call the local NISSAN/INFINITI service mgrs and see what they can tell me.
Last edited by dr-rjp; 03-08-2010 at 12:59 PM. Reason: update
03-01-2010, 01:17 PM
#7
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
iTrader: (19)
Join Date: Jun 2001
Posts: 16,033
With a thread title like that, it's amazing anybody responded to you.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
03-01-2010, 02:40 PM
#8
03-01-2010, 03:54 PM
#9
With a thread title like that, it's amazing anybody responded to you.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
On this post, I had six responses in the past five hours.
On my previous post on the same topic, i had six responses in the past two weeks.
03-02-2010, 08:44 AM
#11
Cleaned up the thread. ECTS is a solution but maybe not in your particular case. Have you ruled it out yet? If you do believe it is the harness, it might be easier to change out the harness instead of trying to repair it. Might want to look into changed the ecu as well since shorts can damage it.
03-02-2010, 05:31 PM
#12
u know what?
With a thread title like that, it's amazing anybody responded to you.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
Personally I didn't even read your post and I'm sure others will tend to do the same.
How in the world do you expect somebody sitting at their PC across the country to be 100% sure what your problem is?
These forums are for ideas, help and suggestions to help you troubleshoot.
unlike some people who give
"VERY" indescriptive information in their post, including myself.. i find myself bowing down to this gentleman. because, i understand every bit of thhis, and i am not even thrown off topic... Besides, after reading this.. i can't help but to say, maybe it could be a plugged cat.. but that can be RARE.
but none the less. bravo on ur post... and sorry i can't help u.
03-07-2010, 07:16 PM
#13
Junior Member
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 21
I just bought a 96 Maxima that had a CEL on for ECTS. The sensor was in bad enough shape that the radiator fans were turning on and off on a cold start. I took the ECTS out and it was black with corrosion. After scraping the corrosion off with some steel wool the CEL didn't come back.
One odd thing that I noticed is that the first time I took the car out after fixing the sensor it hiccuped just like you described when it reached operating temperature. The only thing I could think that it might be is that the car had the trim set strangely due to the bum sensor and that when it went into closed loop it almost stalled the car.
Hope this helps. Sounds like your ECTS is acting up.
One odd thing that I noticed is that the first time I took the car out after fixing the sensor it hiccuped just like you described when it reached operating temperature. The only thing I could think that it might be is that the car had the trim set strangely due to the bum sensor and that when it went into closed loop it almost stalled the car.
Hope this helps. Sounds like your ECTS is acting up.
03-08-2010, 12:56 PM
#15
I need to merge this with my original thread
I have to ask the mechanic again to see if he checked it out. I'm sure he did, BUT, I'll find out tomorrow and let everyone know.
I am going to merge replies here with my original thread since I have been updating it more frequently:
http://forums.maxima.org/4th-generat...g-problem.html
I'll pass the suggestions along to the mechanics to see if anything rings a bell.
The short answer is, "There's no answer yet."
The car started and ran yesterday and Saturday with no issues, but today, Monday, it died like it always did.
Last edited by dr-rjp; 03-08-2010 at 01:18 PM.
03-08-2010, 01:13 PM
#16
03-08-2010, 01:14 PM
#17
It's not the ECTS.
There seems to be a consensus on the ECTS...but I have to ask the mechanic again to see if he checked it out. I'm sure he did, BUT, I'll find out.
Last edited by dr-rjp; 03-08-2010 at 01:17 PM.
03-14-2010, 11:30 AM
#19
03-21-2010, 03:27 PM
#22
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