STARTER STUCK IN ENGINE......TRIED ALMOST EVERYTHING

WhiteMaxima9600 · 10-29-2009, 05:27 PM

Well today I'am officially perplexed on this situation! I swear i have been as calm as I could be while dealing with this with still no answer. If you have not read my other post basically this is the deal.

I replaced my starter with a reman unit, turned over fine the first 5-6 times then developed a slight grinding sound upon turning over. Problem got a little worse after bout a week or so. Finally one night it sounded like the teeth were not catching the flywheel correctly and it just barely started.

I removed both starter bolts and the starter just stayed in place!! I tried hammering it with a block of wood, prying with a small tool, prying with screwdrivers etc.. and it did not budge. Today decided to turn engine over with ratchet and it turns over in both directions smoothly no sound at all from starter or flywheel. Then I decided to take the starter apart while it was still on the car and the shaft inside is loose. So I don't think it's engaged to the flywheel.

What else is there for me to do??? Nothing I have mentioned has made any difference at all. I'ts still as tight to the housing as if it were still bolted down

Im open to any suggestions as this has been going on for almost 2 weeks and Im ready to throw a match on it at this point

smai555 · 10-29-2009, 05:37 PM

take a pipe wrench and see it you can start to twist it

WhiteMaxima9600 · 10-29-2009, 06:21 PM

Not really sure i want to to that. I would like to still be able to swap it out for a new one if i ever do get it out. Plus I just don't think it would be safe for the housing. The last thing i would want to do is break something other than the starter. Thanks

smai555 · 10-29-2009, 08:03 PM

spray penetrating oil?

where are you located?

atomicplague · 10-29-2009, 08:20 PM

All I can imagine is that a flywheel or flex plate bolt loosened off. A bolt may have jammed the starter in place, or any other foreign object. Just a pipe dream, but not impossible. I would put the starter back together and try rocking it back and forth well prying on it. If you can't do that, the only thing to do would be to loosen the trans bolts a bit and anything that's in there will drop out.
Did you try starting it a few times with no bolts in it? I would. That should loosen up anything. It may damage things, so try at your own risk. Best of luck and keep us informed.

Nopike · 10-30-2009, 09:07 AM

If the starter and the engine are not locked up/frozen I would expect the starter to turn when you apply power to it. Does the starter crank at all? You could install bolts and try applying power directly to the starter from the positive termimal of the battery see if it cranks. Not sure if that's going to help it get unstuck but can't think of much else other than prying it out or busting the starter apart to remove it.

This is one strange problem, I would expect that starter to practically fall out once the two bolts holding it are removed. I would expect that your pushing/hammering on it would get it loose.

One other thing, can you take apart/remove the small assembly on the starter that the power wire runs to. Maybe you can gat access to any stuck parts? There is a good parts diagram of the starter in the EL section of the FSM maybe that will help you.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 10-30-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nopike

If the starter and the engine are not locked up/frozen I would expect the starter to turn when you apply power to it. Does the starter crank at all? You could install bolts and try applying power directly to the starter from the positive termimal of the battery see if it cranks. Not sure if that's going to help it get unstuck but can't think of much else other than prying it out or busting the starter apart to remove it.

This is one strange problem, I would expect that starter to practically fall out once the two bolts holding it are removed. I would expect that your pushing/hammering on it would get it loose.

One other thing, can you take apart/remove the small assembly on the starter that the power wire runs to. Maybe you can gat access to any stuck parts? There is a good parts diagram of the starter in the EL section of the FSM maybe that will help you.

Yeah, I already tried to turn it over and it's like the starter is completly dead, it doesn't make a sound. I know the last time I changed it, it just fell out when i removed the bolts. It's the craziest thing Ive ever seen

Ive already took apart the starter and got down to these 3small little gears. I poped them out and there is a shaft that moves around freely inside so im assuming that it's not locked to the flywheel. I even turned the crank pulley and the gears don't turn at all on the starter assembly so it can't be frozen!

WhiteMaxima9600 · 10-31-2009, 04:29 PM

Man.. Im starting to wonder if it would be easier just to do a 5speed swap. Looks like im gone half to drop the tranny just to get this S.O.B. out!!!

maxfever1987 · 10-31-2009, 05:36 PM

have you tried prying with a pry bar or even hit the top of the starter and than lifting the bottomw with a pry bar, and doing the process a few times? 5 spd swap would require quite a bit to conveert

maxfever1987 · 10-31-2009, 05:38 PM

why r you always caged

*williamgd2* · 10-31-2009, 06:23 PM

Since the starter is already dead spray the piss out of it with pb blaster penitrating oil and take a hammer of sledg hammer to it. it will come out

WhiteMaxima9600 · 10-31-2009, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by williamgd2

Since the starter is already dead spray the piss out of it with pb blaster penitrating oil and take a hammer of sledg hammer to it. it will come out

That may just be what it will come to, I have just been tryin to be careful not to break the trans. housing with all this prying and hammering. So.....as I have said before, YES, I have been prying (very hard) and YES I have been hammering from every angle with nothing moving. Hell I even took the thing apart and tryed hooking a piece of wire around the solenoid and prying the crap out of it towards the driver's side and it still won't won't budge.

I don't think that is caged

Just my way of being careful I guess, I mean what good will it be to get the thing out but have busted up the transmission? Thanks for all the help again, btw the comment above about a 5-speed swap was a joke

HandsonMaxima. · 11-01-2009, 12:28 AM

i find myself glued to this thread to hear about what the problem is. everytime i see it at the top of the thread list. i find myself here wondering what youve done next!

also dropping the tranny seems to me like the best idea.
somehow a sledgehammer+allumin bellhousing is full of bad endings to me.

Donald199 · 11-01-2009, 02:19 AM

it there any chance that you have removed the Wrong bolt thinking they are the starter bolts? it might sound ridiculous but I am surprise that no one asked

HandsonMaxima. · 11-01-2009, 09:10 AM

you ever replaced a starter? its pretty obvious which bolts belong to it. but legitimate question to most other senerios, myself having made that mistake a few times.

Nopike · 11-01-2009, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donald199

it there any chance that you have removed the Wrong bolt thinking they are the starter bolts? it might sound ridiculous but I am surprise that no one asked

OP had another thread going about this he has pictures to prove bolts are out.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-01-2009, 07:46 PM

Oh, yeah the bolts are out. I JUST replaced this starter not a month ago. The old one just fell right out. I don't know what the crap happend with this one though. It looked exactly like the one I took out of it. Here's the pics, PROVING the bolts ARE OUT.

As you can see BOTH bolts are out, and the dam* thing is still just sitting there. Right now the whole back part of it is taken off (moter assembly, black part) and it still won't budge.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-01-2009, 08:08 PM

OK, here's some updated pics of my starter taken apart somewhat. Sorry for the blurry pics. As you can see the inside has a ring gear and 3 small gears, behind that is a shaft with another gear (not in picture). I pulled out on the shaft and it moves back and forth about 1/2 inch or so. Does not seem to be binded up or anything??

Curt Deiner · 11-02-2009, 08:08 AM

The starter gets ground thru the trans case. Is it possible the starter shorted out and has welded itself to the case?

Nopike · 11-02-2009, 08:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt Deiner

The starter gets ground thru the trans case. Is it possible the starter shorted out and has welded itself to the case?

Unlikely, but even if that happened it would be a very small/poor weld, easy to break off. Good suggestion anyways.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-02-2009, 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Curt Deiner

The starter gets ground thru the trans case. Is it possible the starter shorted out and has welded itself to the case?

Ya know I thought that myself

But as much as ive pryed you would think a small weld would break. My real problem is.... I just can't get enough outward pry on it, I can pry up, down, sideways but not outward the way I really need to pull. I hooked a wire around it but it snapped before i could really pry on it. I used the motor mount as a pry point and pulled towards the fender. Any other suggestions?

HandsonMaxima. · 11-02-2009, 11:59 AM

i really think you should drop your tranny before you break something expensive, just undo the bolts and drop it out, compared to the time youve spent its nothing.
after a day its what i would of done.

but i would have gotten a very heavy rod such as a post ram and pounded down on it. that ought to get enough force.

smai555 · 11-02-2009, 12:36 PM

a chisel or a really sharp putty knife?

Nopike · 11-02-2009, 12:41 PM

At some point you may just have to bite the bullet and destroy the starter. Maybe you can, very carefully, cut it off with a large Dremel like cut off tool. Or just keep taking the entire starter apart until all that is left is the flange that attaches it to the engine. Just a possible suggestion, I have not really taken a very close look at what you are up against.

cashoit · 11-02-2009, 01:23 PM

yo man...this been a problem for u for awhlie. What was the original issue again??? I forget.

I jus remember you performing a lot of maintenance on the car lol....

i2vicious2 · 11-02-2009, 01:38 PM

try turning the crank pully w/ a 19mm socket to see if the teeth on the starter are stuck....

SteveB123 · 11-02-2009, 01:54 PM

Bolts back in lightly to get a decent ground, and then bump it?

Couldn't hurt, I guess.

**Nealoc187** · 11-02-2009, 05:46 PM

I'd try what the guy above suggested, or just bang it with a hammer (preferably brass or copper hammer if you have one). Also try applying heat to the housing of the starter, you'd be surprised what a bit of heat can do to things that are otherwise seized.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-02-2009, 10:44 PM

Already turned crank with ratchet, everything turned fine. Already tried to bump it over, starter is dead as a door nail. Already hammered, pryed etc.

whiteSE · 11-02-2009, 10:51 PM

some C4?

UncleMax98 · 11-04-2009, 02:44 PM

Maybe the starter spline gear is stuck with the fly wheel? If you turn the engine over with the ratchet, do you see the starter three small gears move?

If you get really desperate, you could get a new starter and install half of it to the old starter that is still stuck on the engine and see if you can start the car (install the two big bolts first). This is a crazy idea so don't yell at me.

smai555 · 11-04-2009, 04:34 PM

where have you hit it? i would try right above the hole(toward rear of the car) in a straight down motion to see if you can at least spin the starter

Bamfy98 · 11-04-2009, 04:50 PM

wow i hope this doesnt happen to me. I replaced my starter with the same starter you have and it does make that quick grind noise upon turning over too. I hope it doesnt get stuck when it s***s out

khantalha+ · 11-04-2009, 05:30 PM

well i guess ur gonna have to take the tranny out and see if it slides out with the trans...

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-04-2009, 06:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMax98

Maybe the starter spline gear is stuck with the fly wheel? If you turn the engine over with the ratchet, do you see the starter three small gears move?

If you get really desperate, you could get a new starter and install half of it to the old starter that is still stuck on the engine and see if you can start the car (install the two big bolts first). This is a crazy idea so don't yell at me.

I got someone to watch the gears when I turned it over and they did not turn so I don't guess it's on the flywheel, but who knows? I have been working like mad and have not had time to fool with it lately. The crazy idea u have just might work!

Does anyone know how I maybe could hook up the small starter motor to see if it tries to turn off the car? I'm just not sold that motor is burnt up

1992maximase30 · 11-04-2009, 08:31 PM

imo, if you feel as though the starter motor is fine you could always try a volt meter.
have someone crank the car and if the volts go down it's a possiblity the starter is jammed.

khantalha+ · 11-06-2009, 01:52 PM

any luck?

StickShiftV6 · 11-08-2009, 05:43 PM

Sledgehammer.

HandsonMaxima. · 11-08-2009, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by UncleMax98

If you get really desperate, you could get a new starter and install half of it to the old starter that is still stuck on the engine and see if you can start the car (install the two big bolts first). This is a crazy idea so don't yell at me.

i actually thought of that as soon as he said he had it taken apart.
+1 for thinking outside the box with me.

btw can people stop saying sledge hammer, hes not gonna do it and neither would you if it was your bellhousing at stake.

WhiteMaxima9600 · 11-09-2009, 12:29 AM

Nah, to be honest I have yet to have a day off of work since halloween! So she's just been sitting there, it sux badly. Hopefully when im off this week, I can try some more. I'll keep ya posted with the results!