Has anyone installed a 10 inch cone filter?

[cashoit]

Has anyone installed a 10 inch cone filter? I have the 5 inch long standard filter and was thinkin about using the bigger filter. Any increased performance??

[Shift_Knob]

i have one of the big 10" filters on my car just because its what i had laying around when i got the car. as far as more power no the small one flows more than enough for our cars. ive seen a supercharged mustang breathing just fine through the small 3" filter.

[Coolsaber57]

Why would having a longer cone filter improve performance?

[bigpopaj369]

maybe he likes big cones

[Coolsaber57]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

maybe he likes big cones

Well done sir.

[perkman87]

on my 5.0 mustang

[VQ>ALL]

I don't think it would make a dif. When I had my maxima sc it had a small filter on it and it was running great. I don't think I had a cone that big lol. Not much space down there when ya sc it

[bigpopaj369]

Originally Posted by Coolsaber57

Well done sir.

thanks! ... to be honest i really dont think u would gain any more performance out of a larger filter, the best filter ive seen for performance was the AEM dry flow, iirc they are a little on the pricey side tho.

[Bamfy98]

Filter size has no effect on performance or sound.... Air gets sucked in from the intake pipe connected to the filter, not the filter itself. The filter just keeps sh!!t from getting into the intake.

[Leo_Koneval]

Wouldn't a bigger filter mean more surface area for air to come in? Haha

I mean if you go crazy on dirt roads something I would "never" do, I think a small cone would obviously get clogged faster than a bigger one.

But otherwise, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter like what you guys said.

And I lost my point

[motox166]

A filter size does not necessarily/usually make power(although it can), but a too small filter will rob power from any motor.
The question is if a standard 3" cone filter will flow enough CFM (cubic feet per minute) as required by your motor at maximum power?

When you calculate the CFM required for the VQ30, its about 400 CFM.
That's based on accepted formulas for calculating volumetric efficiency(VE) and CFM.
The VE is about 90% to make 190HP. I wasn't sure on the compression ratio, so I figured about 9.7:1, which is 90% VE of a 3.0L engine at 6500 rpm.

So 400 CFM is decent. For comparison, my 435 HP 6.7L Ford V8 needs about 900 cfm of airflow through the filter.

This K&N filter flows about 660 CFM when I looked it up. So a normal sized standard issue 3" cone should flow enough to not rob any HP from the VQ30.
This one is slightly larger than the ones I typically see...
Part E-0940 Product Specifications
Product Style: Tapered Conical Air Filter
Base Inside Diameter: 3.25 in (83 mm)
Base Outside Diameter: 6.5 in (165 mm)
Height: 7.375 in (187 mm)
Inner Wire: No
Top Outside Diameter: 3 in (76 mm)
Top Style: Rubber
Top Material/Finish: None
K&N E-0940

Unless you take the advice of every member on here and severely mod your motor, then you wouldn't need a bigger/better flowing filter.

I am on a personal quest to get every useless HP and MPG out of simple mods like intakes and mufflers. I'm getting a Blox racing Filter with a velocity stack to see if that will do anything more than a standard cone filter. It's coming friday! Yeah! Weekend project!
One more thing to keep in mind is fuel correction when you change how your motor breathes. your car will end up running leaner just about all the time when you do stuff like this. The extra flow of these pieces can(usually do) go outside of the fuel correction parameters of the ECU. So by putting a slightly restrictive filter(but better than stock) on motor running a stock ECU can make more power than a large free flowing filter or muffler. From my experience. I've done intake/muffler mods to around 10 cars now with Fuel Injection.

In my opinion...Let me know if I'm wrong...

[trand71]

Pretty good for a Newb. Sounds logical, i have a CAI and an at least a 7 inch straight cone filter for the Max....runs good i've tried the other brands but the best bang for the buck is K&N...imo

[cashoit]

If there is more surface area then there will be more flow through into the the IM. More air means better performance cuz air is rushing into the cylinders faster.

I think the 10" cone will outperform the 5" cone. But really only way to find out

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

maybe he likes big cones

Originally Posted by Leo_Koneval

Wouldn't a bigger filter mean more surface area for air to come in? Haha

I mean if you go crazy on dirt roads something I would "never" do, I think a small cone would obviously get clogged faster than a bigger one.

But otherwise, I am pretty sure it doesn't matter like what you guys said.

And I lost my point

Originally Posted by motox166

A filter size does not necessarily/usually make power(although it can), but a too small filter will rob power from any motor.
The question is if a standard 3" cone filter will flow enough CFM (cubic feet per minute) as required by your motor at maximum power?

When you calculate the CFM required for the VQ30, its about 400 CFM.
That's based on accepted formulas for calculating volumetric efficiency(VE) and CFM.
The VE is about 90% to make 190HP. I wasn't sure on the compression ratio, so I figured about 9.7:1, which is 90% VE of a 3.0L engine at 6500 rpm.

So 400 CFM is decent. For comparison, my 435 HP 6.7L Ford V8 needs about 900 cfm of airflow through the filter.

This K&N filter flows about 660 CFM when I looked it up. So a normal sized standard issue 3" cone should flow enough to not rob any HP from the VQ30.
This one is slightly larger than the ones I typically see...
Part E-0940 Product Specifications
Product Style: Tapered Conical Air Filter
Base Inside Diameter: 3.25 in (83 mm)
Base Outside Diameter: 6.5 in (165 mm)
Height: 7.375 in (187 mm)
Inner Wire: No
Top Outside Diameter: 3 in (76 mm)
Top Style: Rubber
Top Material/Finish: None
K&N E-0940

Unless you take the advice of every member on here and severely mod your motor, then you wouldn't need a bigger/better flowing filter.

I am on a personal quest to get every useless HP and MPG out of simple mods like intakes and mufflers. I'm getting a Blox racing Filter with a velocity stack to see if that will do anything more than a standard cone filter. It's coming friday! Yeah! Weekend project!
One more thing to keep in mind is fuel correction when you change how your motor breathes. your car will end up running leaner just about all the time when you do stuff like this. The extra flow of these pieces can(usually do) go outside of the fuel correction parameters of the ECU. So by putting a slightly restrictive filter(but better than stock) on motor running a stock ECU can make more power than a large free flowing filter or muffler. From my experience. I've done intake/muffler mods to around 10 cars now with Fuel Injection.

In my opinion...Let me know if I'm wrong...

Yeah i figured that 10" cone gains would be minimal at best. Thats why i didnt jus install one already. I was afraid if i installed one then the engine might run too lean. Thats why I was wondering if someone had one installed to confirm if its even worth installing the 10 inch

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

maybe he likes big cones

lol

[bigpopaj369]

i dont think u will run too lean but i dont see an performance gains out of it, i guess only one way to find out

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

i dont think u will run too lean but i dont see an performance gains out of it, i guess only one way to find out

Yeah...Ima look for another mod.

Hey man...last saturday afternoon I was traveling on I-495 North and i saw this killer blue maxi w/ all the trimmings . Was that you? Car was sick

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

i dont think u will run too lean but i dont see an performance gains out of it, i guess only one way to find out

Yeah...Ima look for another mod.

Hey man...last saturday afternoon I was traveling on I-495 North and i saw this killer blue 4th gen maxi w/ all the trimmings . Was that you? Car was sick!!

[Bamfy98]

Originally Posted by cashoit

If there is more surface area then there will be more flow through into the the IM. More air means better performance cuz air is rushing into the cylinders faster.

I think the 10" cone will outperform the 5" cone. But really only way to find out

The surface area is the same for a 5" cone and a 10" cone. The only "surface area" is the opening of the 3" intake pipe, that's where the air is being sucked into. The cone has no effect.

Put a 5" cone around your mouth and inhale, then do it with a 10" cone, you will breathe the same, its the same concept.

If you want more air, get bigger diameter intake pipe and a Pathfinder throttle body.

[njmaxseltd]

Originally Posted by motox166

I am on a personal quest to get every useless HP and MPG out of simple mods like intakes and mufflers.

Mod it back to the stock set up. We all know the 4th gen doesn't benefit from an intake. Throttle response suffers, especially if your an auto.

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by njmaxseltd

Mod it back to the stock set up. We all know the 4th gen doesn't benefit from an intake. Throttle response suffers, especially if your an auto.

I begrudgingly agree...

But then the engine roar would be lost. I rather have that

[lbrowne]

Which K&N would be the best fit based on the advice provided in this thread? (part number or anything?)

I agree 10" would be a bit overkill.

[Leo_Koneval]

Originally Posted by njmaxseltd

Mod it back to the stock set up. We all know the 4th gen doesn't benefit from an intake. Throttle response suffers, especially if your an auto.

Yeah I noticed that personally also.

But i don't quite understand why. WOuldn't more air equal to more power, which makes the car respond faster?

But it does the complete opposite, starting from 0 MPH, I notice that the usual jump right when I stepped on the gas is gone, but it smoothly and slowly goes up to 40, then as I get up to the 60's I notice that my car accelerates much faster up into the 70's and 80 MPH.

With the stock intake it does the opposite, it loses power from the 60's and up. But jumps from 0 to 40 MPH much faster.

[Q8BallMAXIMA]

Originally Posted by Leo_Koneval

Yeah I noticed that personally also.

But i don't quite understand why. WOuldn't more air equal to more power, which makes the car respond faster?

But it does the complete opposite, starting from 0 MPH, I notice that the usual jump right when I stepped on the gas is gone, but it smoothly and slowly goes up to 40, then as I get up to the 60's I notice that my car accelerates much faster up into the 70's and 80 MPH.

With the stock intake it does the opposite, it loses power from the 60's and up. But jumps from 0 to 40 MPH much faster.

I've had just a box style K&N in the stock intake and really haven't noticed a difference in performance...about the only thing different is the engine growls a little more...that's about it.

Yes...I notice the acceleration in better on the low end with the stock intake.

[Bamfy98]

Originally Posted by Leo_Koneval

Yeah I noticed that personally also.

But i don't quite understand why. WOuldn't more air equal to more power, which makes the car respond faster?

But it does the complete opposite, starting from 0 MPH, I notice that the usual jump right when I stepped on the gas is gone, but it smoothly and slowly goes up to 40, then as I get up to the 60's I notice that my car accelerates much faster up into the 70's and 80 MPH.

With the stock intake it does the opposite, it loses power from the 60's and up. But jumps from 0 to 40 MPH much faster.

That's because you're right. I'm no genius, but a lot of people here have nothing good to say about intakes, especially Injen. Cold air or not, more air = more power. Of course, cold air is better than warm air, but stock is so restrictive, I don't understand why people say "stay stock its the best". I agree that Injen isn't a true CAI, but I have Injen it DOES NOT sit behind the radiator like everyone says, if you twist the bottom pipe a little bit, it will sit under the battery, and ill tell you now, my midrange power improved ALOT, and performs much better than my old short ram intake sucking in all that hot air.

The stock intake people say we are fooled by the intake sound, saying its a "placebo effect" (we think we are going faster because we sound faster), when in reality, the stock people have a counter-placebo effect (they think quieter is faster).

[maxed_out_99]

Finally someone who knows what their talking about THANK YOU!!! everybody listen yo this guy.

[maxed_out_99]

Originally Posted by lbrowne

Which K&N would be the best fit based on the advice provided in this thread? (part number or anything?)

I agree 10" would be a bit overkill.

intall a factory drop in you will gain the most power enginers are not stupid

[motox166]

Originally Posted by maxed_out_99

intall a factory drop in you will gain the most power enginers are not stupid

On a stock vehicle with no fuel correction, i'd agree.
However....

"The extra flow of these pieces can(usually do) go outside of the fuel correction parameters of the ECU. So by putting a slightly restrictive filter(but better than stock) on motor running a stock ECU can make more power than a large free flowing filter or muffler. From my experience."

The stock intake pieces work better because they allow less flow. Think about that. Just about everyone agrees that stock intakes make the car go faster. And we all know just by looking that they allow less air through. So If less flow equals faster car, why? Because your engine CAN handle the fuel requirements for the amount of flow of the really restrictive stock intake but not the additional flow of the new ones. If you have more air to use then you need more fuel to go along with it to keep the proper air/fuel ratios that are required to make best power. About 12.5 parts air to 1 part fuel is about best. So when you install you higher flowing piece of whatever, and your car looses power, that MEANS that you don't have enough fuel to go along with it. Bottom line.

So the fact that you loose power by just installing a simple cone filter means that the original was really restrictive.

So all you have to do is either reprogram your ECU, or trick it. I'm not spending the $$$ to reprogram, so tricking it is the easiest option. There are plenty of other ways but these are two common and easy ones.

1. Adjustable Fuel Pressure Regulator (FPR)
So if you install one of these bad boys, it will force more fuel past your injectors throughout the RPM range and give you an overall rich(more fuel) mixture. However, too much will kill power and do damage as well.
Read up on the net on this one. Its very easy and fairly cheap mod. You can buy the fitting for about $20 and the FPR for under $50 on ebay. These units work fine.

2. Apexi air fuel controller(AFC), super AFC, or NEO.
These will adjust your map sensor at different rpms to trick the computer into giving it more or less fuel at the selected RPMs. They are about $150 used to about $500 new depending on the model. It only takes a few wires to hook up. This is the more precise method, but i would recommend both.

3. Adjustable map sensor
With this you can adjust the amount of fuel with the turn of a screwdriver.
You can make one of these for under $25 with parts from radio shack with basic sodering skills.
I made one for a 94 4.0L Jeep Cherokee so I could run straight BioEthanol (E85). Worked great. I could even use it to give it less fuel while cruising and save 1-2mpg. That was back when gas was around $4.00/ gal. I saved $150/ month using bio.
This mod is all over the internet. I think you can buy these already made for $50-75. Check around. It takes about 4 wires or so to install.

Conclusion:
If you don't want to bother with giving your engine more fuel, stick with the bone stock intake on the Max to go the fastest.
If you just want more power by any means necessary, do whatever intake mod you want and give it more fuel. You WILL make more power with a better intake when you give it the proper amount of fuel.

[motox166]

Originally Posted by cashoit

Yeah i figured that 10" cone gains would be minimal at best. Thats why i didnt jus install one already. I was afraid if i installed one then the engine might run too lean. Thats why I was wondering if someone had one installed to confirm if its even worth installing the 10 inch

I just intalled a Blox racing air filter with a velocity stack ($65 on ebay) and it gave me some bottom end back. But nothing like the original intake.

The filter is huge. It has a 6" inlet for the stack. Barely fits with the air box removed. And I still had to trim everything to make it fit with the aftermarket eBay mid pipe.

Oh, not worth it.

[Coolsaber57]

Originally Posted by cashoit

Yeah...Ima look for another mod.

Hey man...last saturday afternoon I was traveling on I-495 North and i saw this killer blue maxi w/ all the trimmings . Was that you? Car was sick

I have a killer blue maxi and I drive on 495 North all the time....















Around DC

[cashoit]

Originally Posted by Coolsaber57

I have a killer blue maxi and I drive on 495 North all the time....





Around DC

CoolSaber...i saw the maxi on 495 north in MAss. If that was yurs man...lemme be the first to kiss ur *** lol that a sick whip bro!!

I hear what ppl are saying about the stock intake. More air is gonna require more gas to produce more HP.

I disagree with the statement that the ECU wont compensate to increase more fuel delivery. The entire car was built with margins so that the ECU would be able to increase fuel demands as air flow increased. Thats why there are o2 sensors.

I installed a short ram intake on my car and did notice a loss in throttle response. I noticed that the air drawn into the engine was a bit warmer that then the air using the stock intake. So I devised a solution (u guys prolly came up with the same thing). I used the "OEM intake hose" that bolts up to the top of the radiotor using 2 plastic set screws and reboolted back up. The "OEM intake hose" is sort of funnel shaped and channels the inrush of cold outside air to the area right behind the battery, effectively creating an artificial cold zone for the short ram. It was cheap and i noticed near stock low rpm throttle repsonse and maintained my cool engine ROAR lol

[Coolsaber57]

I'm going back to the stock intake

My maf adapter + cone filter is killing my gas mileage + low end power

[bigpopaj369]

^^^ i run the same thing, i know i lost a lil low end torque but it never hurt my mileage?

[Coolsaber57]

Originally Posted by bigpopaj369

^^^ i run the same thing, i know i lost a lil low end torque but it never hurt my mileage?

Well, think of it this way: if you lose low end torque, you have to push the throttle higher, using more gas.

Now, if all I do is sit in traffic (not really farfetched, lol), I'm using the gas more since my low end torque is lower.

[bigpopaj369]

Originally Posted by Coolsaber57

Well, think of it this way: if you lose low end torque, you have to push the throttle higher, using more gas.

Now, if all I do is sit in traffic (not really farfetched, lol), I'm using the gas more since my low end torque is lower.

thats a really good point!

[cashoit]

good point saber....

Now if u low end torque is lost then is because the onrunsh of incoming air into the cylinder is greater than the fuel coming into the cylinder...basically air molecules outnumbering fuel molecules. Requires more throttle response....but high end power gains kind of offest the low end losses...plus u cant beat the engine ROAR!! lol

[motox166]

Originally Posted by cashoit

I hear what ppl are saying about the stock intake. More air is gonna require more gas to produce more HP.

I disagree with the statement that the ECU wont compensate to increase more fuel delivery. The entire car was built with margins so that the ECU would be able to increase fuel demands as air flow increased. Thats why there are o2 sensors.

The ECU DOES compensate for the added flow. Up to 10% above the stock flow for any given RPM usually. After that, it does NOT(typically). Just a MAF adapter and cone filter alone produces more than a 10% increase in flow at any given RPM(especailly at lower RPMs). And if you were to put a wideband in there you'd see you were running lean on the top end as well. But in the case of a stock ECU, WOT and high RPMs means the ECU is no longer reading the MAF, but now the MAP and using built in "safe A/F tables" to make sure it runs a little rich so you don't melt the pistons. So when you give it more flow by means of a better flowing filter, it doesnt know it's there and gives the same amount of fuel which equals running leaner. But running leaner on the top end makes more power than the "stock A/F tables".
The reason you loose bottom end on the VQ30 with more flow is because the A/F ratio goes outside the range of the narrow band O2 sensor which prompts the ECU to use it's "safe tables" which have terrible(less) timing and not enough fuel for producing power. Acts kinda the same as a bad knock sensor.

[mr.droppednfresh]

maybe a 20inch cone will give u double the power lmaoo

[bigpopaj369]

Originally Posted by cashoit

good point saber....

Now if u low end torque is lost then is because the onrunsh of incoming air into the cylinder is greater than the fuel coming into the cylinder...basically air molecules outnumbering fuel molecules. Requires more throttle response....but high end power gains kind of offest the low end losses...plus u cant beat the engine ROAR!! lol

thats a good point too, im definitely not worried about losing a little gas and low end, i can live with it for that little more top end and the roar of the deep throaty engine!

[Bamfy98]

Admit it, we all want the roar that the Honda boys don't have.


But 1 day I will work on a better air/fuel mixture so I get the performance and the roar.