problems involving emissions, OBDII....
08-25-2009, 10:08 AM
#1
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problems involving emissions, OBDII....
Alright,
Some of you may remember me buying my 96 SE Manual (184k) almost 2 months ago now. I bought it from a guy who moved here to Arizona from Minnesota and since it's from out of state the vehicle has to be run through emissions even if it had already passed in another state a month prior to selling it (I guess it's so they can get it in the state system?). First thing I actually did was replace the AC compressor since the AZ heat was coming quick. Then after that it was off to emissions. I was pretty confident with it, the car was solid. So here's where all my problems begin....
The car was rejected for an OBD II "NOT READY."
-Catalyst-------NOT READY
-EGR-----------NOT READY
-EVAP System--NOT READY
Now from what I was told you can still have two of the systems not ready and still pass emissions. I have no codes, no pending codes, nothing.
So anyway the guy at the emissions place told me I need to complete the drive cycle. Little did I know how difficult this would be. Refer to the link for the drive cycle.
http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle_maxima.html
I tried doing the drive cycle on my own after about 500 miles have been put on the car. Went again and still was rejected from the emissions place. Waited a week later, drove it some more then went again. No luck. Another week and 3-3 day tags and a 30 day tempory tag later, STILL no luck. At this point I'm at about 2k miles since I've owned the car. So I bit the bullet and took it to someone. I ended up taking it to Tech1Auto here in Peoria since it was a highly recommended shop. I talked to the shop owner, Fred, who has had expirence with specificaly the 96 maxima. He mentioned these cars have a very strict monitor system but at the same time he's been very successful with getting the monitors to run by doing the drive cycle by himself.
Anyway, He quoted me about $300 to get everything running. (OUCH) He had it about a week and HE had no luck. He mentioned that one of my O2 sensors was really sluggish, almost not working. So he repalced it and that didn't help. He suggested taking it to the Emissions Lab in Tempe. So I went to go pick it up and my bill was almost $700!!!
-$60 for a rental
-$50 for fuel (87 FTL!)
-$265.42 for O2 sensor
-$300 for labor
So I asked him why I should pay $700 for a problem not fixed? Since Fred was a nice guy he took off the $300ish in labor. He did do a full inspections on my car and found some problems with it. I'll be taking it back to him to get those fixed to give him a second chance. He also mentioned that my odometer stopped working while he had it (go figure)
Here's some maitenance problems he found
-oil change needed
-3-part fuel service suggested (due to miles)
-Left outer CV boot torn
-P/S fluid flush (due to condition)
-both license plate bulbs are out
So off to the emissions lab. I talked to two of the techs there. They hooked up the scanner. Found no codes, temps are fine, everything seems fine except the monitors aren't....computing? They're stumped. EMISSIONs techs don't know whats wrong with my car with an EMISSIONS related problem! haha. I've been in contact for a week now with one of the techs I talked to, Alex, really nice guy. He's been trying to do some research for me and help me with a solution.
Since only one more monitor needs to run and referring to the link of the drive cycle I provided here, the EGR system seems easiest since it's only the first 3 steps. Going off track for a second, let me ask this: The O2 system (Heated and sensore) is, in fact, ready according to my emission rejection sheet. Why would the O2 be ready but the EGR not ready? From what the emission guys told me, you have to complete the steps in order. Meaning the EGR pattern should've been complete in order for the O2 sensor to be ready.
So, here's my next step. I'm getting ready to go complete steps 1-3 on my own. Then I'm going to take it to an emissions facility close by my house. If I get rejected again, I'm going back the main emission lab facility in Tempe and I'm not leaving until there's a solution because this is a load of BS.
Please help me out here guys. thanks
Kevin
Some of you may remember me buying my 96 SE Manual (184k) almost 2 months ago now. I bought it from a guy who moved here to Arizona from Minnesota and since it's from out of state the vehicle has to be run through emissions even if it had already passed in another state a month prior to selling it (I guess it's so they can get it in the state system?). First thing I actually did was replace the AC compressor since the AZ heat was coming quick. Then after that it was off to emissions. I was pretty confident with it, the car was solid. So here's where all my problems begin....
The car was rejected for an OBD II "NOT READY."
-Catalyst-------NOT READY
-EGR-----------NOT READY
-EVAP System--NOT READY
Now from what I was told you can still have two of the systems not ready and still pass emissions. I have no codes, no pending codes, nothing.
So anyway the guy at the emissions place told me I need to complete the drive cycle. Little did I know how difficult this would be. Refer to the link for the drive cycle.
http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle_maxima.html
I tried doing the drive cycle on my own after about 500 miles have been put on the car. Went again and still was rejected from the emissions place. Waited a week later, drove it some more then went again. No luck. Another week and 3-3 day tags and a 30 day tempory tag later, STILL no luck. At this point I'm at about 2k miles since I've owned the car. So I bit the bullet and took it to someone. I ended up taking it to Tech1Auto here in Peoria since it was a highly recommended shop. I talked to the shop owner, Fred, who has had expirence with specificaly the 96 maxima. He mentioned these cars have a very strict monitor system but at the same time he's been very successful with getting the monitors to run by doing the drive cycle by himself.
Anyway, He quoted me about $300 to get everything running. (OUCH) He had it about a week and HE had no luck. He mentioned that one of my O2 sensors was really sluggish, almost not working. So he repalced it and that didn't help. He suggested taking it to the Emissions Lab in Tempe. So I went to go pick it up and my bill was almost $700!!!
-$60 for a rental
-$50 for fuel (87 FTL!)
-$265.42 for O2 sensor
-$300 for labor
So I asked him why I should pay $700 for a problem not fixed? Since Fred was a nice guy he took off the $300ish in labor. He did do a full inspections on my car and found some problems with it. I'll be taking it back to him to get those fixed to give him a second chance. He also mentioned that my odometer stopped working while he had it (go figure)
Here's some maitenance problems he found
-oil change needed
-3-part fuel service suggested (due to miles)
-Left outer CV boot torn
-P/S fluid flush (due to condition)
-both license plate bulbs are out
So off to the emissions lab. I talked to two of the techs there. They hooked up the scanner. Found no codes, temps are fine, everything seems fine except the monitors aren't....computing? They're stumped. EMISSIONs techs don't know whats wrong with my car with an EMISSIONS related problem! haha. I've been in contact for a week now with one of the techs I talked to, Alex, really nice guy. He's been trying to do some research for me and help me with a solution.
Since only one more monitor needs to run and referring to the link of the drive cycle I provided here, the EGR system seems easiest since it's only the first 3 steps. Going off track for a second, let me ask this: The O2 system (Heated and sensore) is, in fact, ready according to my emission rejection sheet. Why would the O2 be ready but the EGR not ready? From what the emission guys told me, you have to complete the steps in order. Meaning the EGR pattern should've been complete in order for the O2 sensor to be ready.
So, here's my next step. I'm getting ready to go complete steps 1-3 on my own. Then I'm going to take it to an emissions facility close by my house. If I get rejected again, I'm going back the main emission lab facility in Tempe and I'm not leaving until there's a solution because this is a load of BS.
Please help me out here guys. thanks
Kevin
08-25-2009, 10:19 AM
#2
Alright,
Some of you may remember me buying my 96 SE Manual (184k) almost 2 months ago now. I bought it from a guy who moved here to Arizona from Minnesota and since it's from out of state the vehicle has to be run through emissions even if it had already passed in another state a month prior to selling it (I guess it's so they can get it in the state system?). First thing I actually did was replace the AC compressor since the AZ heat was coming quick. Then after that it was off to emissions. I was pretty confident with it, the car was solid. So here's where all my problems begin....
The car was rejected for an OBD II "NOT READY."
-Catalyst-------NOT READY
-EGR-----------NOT READY
-EVAP System--NOT READY
Now from what I was told you can still have two of the systems not ready and still pass emissions. I have no codes, no pending codes, nothing.
So anyway the guy at the emissions place told me I need to complete the drive cycle. Little did I know how difficult this would be. Refer to the link for the drive cycle.
http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle_maxima.html
I tried doing the drive cycle on my own after about 500 miles have been put on the car. Went again and still was rejected from the emissions place. Waited a week later, drove it some more then went again. No luck. Another week and 3-3 day tags and a 30 day tempory tag later, STILL no luck. At this point I'm at about 2k miles since I've owned the car. So I bit the bullet and took it to someone. I ended up taking it to Tech1Auto here in Peoria since it was a highly recommended shop. I talked to the shop owner, Fred, who has had expirence with specificaly the 96 maxima. He mentioned these cars have a very strict monitor system but at the same time he's been very successful with getting the monitors to run by doing the drive cycle by himself.
Anyway, He quoted me about $300 to get everything running. (OUCH) He had it about a week and HE had no luck. He mentioned that one of my O2 sensors was really sluggish, almost not working. So he repalced it and that didn't help. He suggested taking it to the Emissions Lab in Tempe. So I went to go pick it up and my bill was almost $700!!!
-$60 for a rental
-$50 for fuel (87 FTL!)
-$265.42 for O2 sensor
-$300 for labor
So I asked him why I should pay $700 for a problem not fixed? Since Fred was a nice guy he took off the $300ish in labor. He did do a full inspections on my car and found some problems with it. I'll be taking it back to him to get those fixed to give him a second chance. He also mentioned that my odometer stopped working while he had it (go figure)
Here's some maitenance problems he found
-oil change needed
-3-part fuel service suggested (due to miles)
-Left outer CV boot torn
-P/S fluid flush (due to condition)
-both license plate bulbs are out
So off to the emissions lab. I talked to two of the techs there. They hooked up the scanner. Found no codes, temps are fine, everything seems fine except the monitors aren't....computing? They're stumped. EMISSIONs techs don't know whats wrong with my car with an EMISSIONS related problem! haha. I've been in contact for a week now with one of the techs I talked to, Alex, really nice guy. He's been trying to do some research for me and help me with a solution.
Since only one more monitor needs to run and referring to the link of the drive cycle I provided here, the EGR system seems easiest since it's only the first 3 steps. Going off track for a second, let me ask this: The O2 system (Heated and sensore) is, in fact, ready according to my emission rejection sheet. Why would the O2 be ready but the EGR not ready? From what the emission guys told me, you have to complete the steps in order. Meaning the EGR pattern should've been complete in order for the O2 sensor to be ready.
So, here's my next step. I'm getting ready to go complete steps 1-3 on my own. Then I'm going to take it to an emissions facility close by my house. If I get rejected again, I'm going back the main emission lab facility in Tempe and I'm not leaving until there's a solution because this is a load of BS.
Please help me out here guys. thanks
Kevin
Some of you may remember me buying my 96 SE Manual (184k) almost 2 months ago now. I bought it from a guy who moved here to Arizona from Minnesota and since it's from out of state the vehicle has to be run through emissions even if it had already passed in another state a month prior to selling it (I guess it's so they can get it in the state system?). First thing I actually did was replace the AC compressor since the AZ heat was coming quick. Then after that it was off to emissions. I was pretty confident with it, the car was solid. So here's where all my problems begin....
The car was rejected for an OBD II "NOT READY."
-Catalyst-------NOT READY
-EGR-----------NOT READY
-EVAP System--NOT READY
Now from what I was told you can still have two of the systems not ready and still pass emissions. I have no codes, no pending codes, nothing.
So anyway the guy at the emissions place told me I need to complete the drive cycle. Little did I know how difficult this would be. Refer to the link for the drive cycle.
http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle_maxima.html
I tried doing the drive cycle on my own after about 500 miles have been put on the car. Went again and still was rejected from the emissions place. Waited a week later, drove it some more then went again. No luck. Another week and 3-3 day tags and a 30 day tempory tag later, STILL no luck. At this point I'm at about 2k miles since I've owned the car. So I bit the bullet and took it to someone. I ended up taking it to Tech1Auto here in Peoria since it was a highly recommended shop. I talked to the shop owner, Fred, who has had expirence with specificaly the 96 maxima. He mentioned these cars have a very strict monitor system but at the same time he's been very successful with getting the monitors to run by doing the drive cycle by himself.
Anyway, He quoted me about $300 to get everything running. (OUCH) He had it about a week and HE had no luck. He mentioned that one of my O2 sensors was really sluggish, almost not working. So he repalced it and that didn't help. He suggested taking it to the Emissions Lab in Tempe. So I went to go pick it up and my bill was almost $700!!!
-$60 for a rental
-$50 for fuel (87 FTL!)
-$265.42 for O2 sensor
-$300 for labor
So I asked him why I should pay $700 for a problem not fixed? Since Fred was a nice guy he took off the $300ish in labor. He did do a full inspections on my car and found some problems with it. I'll be taking it back to him to get those fixed to give him a second chance. He also mentioned that my odometer stopped working while he had it (go figure)
Here's some maitenance problems he found
-oil change needed
-3-part fuel service suggested (due to miles)
-Left outer CV boot torn
-P/S fluid flush (due to condition)
-both license plate bulbs are out
So off to the emissions lab. I talked to two of the techs there. They hooked up the scanner. Found no codes, temps are fine, everything seems fine except the monitors aren't....computing? They're stumped. EMISSIONs techs don't know whats wrong with my car with an EMISSIONS related problem! haha. I've been in contact for a week now with one of the techs I talked to, Alex, really nice guy. He's been trying to do some research for me and help me with a solution.
Since only one more monitor needs to run and referring to the link of the drive cycle I provided here, the EGR system seems easiest since it's only the first 3 steps. Going off track for a second, let me ask this: The O2 system (Heated and sensore) is, in fact, ready according to my emission rejection sheet. Why would the O2 be ready but the EGR not ready? From what the emission guys told me, you have to complete the steps in order. Meaning the EGR pattern should've been complete in order for the O2 sensor to be ready.
So, here's my next step. I'm getting ready to go complete steps 1-3 on my own. Then I'm going to take it to an emissions facility close by my house. If I get rejected again, I'm going back the main emission lab facility in Tempe and I'm not leaving until there's a solution because this is a load of BS.
Please help me out here guys. thanks
Kevin
I would think your ECU is done for and you could grab one from a yard for about $100. As a member of the board I'm not really sure why you didn't start this thread a long time ago, I wouldn't think that after 2k miles your diagnostic system still wouldn't be ready
Honestly, I think your throwing way too much money at these 'nice' losers who probably know that your system just needs to be replaced and are just taking you to the hole like Kobe Bryant ....
oh yea, search may have saved you some serious dough. Sorry dude
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=660286
08-25-2009, 10:20 AM
#3
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Here is Fred's write up on the service done to my car:
"Advanced Device Failure Testing: Continuous Monitors will not Run to Completion
Performed a computer scan analysis. All parameters scanned were normal for the current operation conditions. We scanned for current and pending diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). There were no DTCs stored in the computer's memory. We scanned the non-continuous monitors and all ran to completion except the EGR monitor, the EVAP Purge monitor and the Catalyst Efficiency monitor. The car was driven according to Nissan's drive cycle procedure while we continually checked the non-contiguous monitors for completion. We also drove the car on four different occassions for an extended drive in an attempt to complete the Catalyst monitor as we have been very successful in getting the 96 model year Maximas to complete the Catalyst monitor in this manner. During one drive cycle, we noted that the B1S1 oxygen sensor was switching very slowly in comparison to the B1S2 oxygen sensor. The B1S1 sensor was replaced and 3 more drive cycles were driven (one extended and two normal).
At this point, we recommend that the customer drive the car an extended trip of at least 200 miles while driving the car at 65 MPH in 4th gear maintaining great than 3k RPM. Once this is done, it is suggested that the customer bring the vehicle back to us for a re-scan of the non-continuous monitors."
comments?
"Advanced Device Failure Testing: Continuous Monitors will not Run to Completion
Performed a computer scan analysis. All parameters scanned were normal for the current operation conditions. We scanned for current and pending diagnostic trouble codes (DTCs). There were no DTCs stored in the computer's memory. We scanned the non-continuous monitors and all ran to completion except the EGR monitor, the EVAP Purge monitor and the Catalyst Efficiency monitor. The car was driven according to Nissan's drive cycle procedure while we continually checked the non-contiguous monitors for completion. We also drove the car on four different occassions for an extended drive in an attempt to complete the Catalyst monitor as we have been very successful in getting the 96 model year Maximas to complete the Catalyst monitor in this manner. During one drive cycle, we noted that the B1S1 oxygen sensor was switching very slowly in comparison to the B1S2 oxygen sensor. The B1S1 sensor was replaced and 3 more drive cycles were driven (one extended and two normal).
At this point, we recommend that the customer drive the car an extended trip of at least 200 miles while driving the car at 65 MPH in 4th gear maintaining great than 3k RPM. Once this is done, it is suggested that the customer bring the vehicle back to us for a re-scan of the non-continuous monitors."
comments?
08-25-2009, 10:31 AM
#4
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I hope they used vaseline cuz it sounds like some real hardcore screwing to me.
I would think your ECU is done for and you could grab one from a yard for about $100. As a member of the board I'm not really sure why you didn't start this thread a long time ago, I wouldn't think that after 2k miles your diagnostic system still wouldn't be ready
Honestly, I think your throwing way too much money at these 'nice' losers who probably know that your system just needs to be replaced and are just taking you to the hole like Kobe Bryant ....
oh yea, search may have saved you some serious dough. Sorry dude
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=660286
I would think your ECU is done for and you could grab one from a yard for about $100. As a member of the board I'm not really sure why you didn't start this thread a long time ago, I wouldn't think that after 2k miles your diagnostic system still wouldn't be ready
Honestly, I think your throwing way too much money at these 'nice' losers who probably know that your system just needs to be replaced and are just taking you to the hole like Kobe Bryant ....
oh yea, search may have saved you some serious dough. Sorry dude
http://forums.maxima.org/search.php?searchid=660286
08-25-2009, 02:14 PM
#6
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So now I have a whole new world of problems. I went down to the emissions lab, the main one located in Tempe. Went to talk to Alex, he then told me to pull my car around. As I'm walking to my car I see smoke coming from underneath the hood. I'm like WTF!? overheating?! I open the hood and to my surprise I see a small flame right down by the alternator about the size of a fist. I ran and asked for a fire extinguisher and put it out. After looking over where the fire was we found that it came from the wire harness that goes from the alt to the passenger side headlight right where it connects to the alt. We peeled back the piece that covers the wire and there some white corrision type powder. He said it looks like it's battery acid. I had AAA come take it back to a shop.
So wow, maybe my car is going to be an electrical nightmare. Come to think of it, the stock Bose headunit display will flicker/blink or just not come on but I have heard of these headunits going out after time. I think I'm done with this car.
The car did start right back up just fine. Idle was fine and even the battery light wasn't on. I just didn't want to risk driving it.
So wow, maybe my car is going to be an electrical nightmare. Come to think of it, the stock Bose headunit display will flicker/blink or just not come on but I have heard of these headunits going out after time. I think I'm done with this car.
The car did start right back up just fine. Idle was fine and even the battery light wasn't on. I just didn't want to risk driving it.
Last edited by maximilia; 08-25-2009 at 02:17 PM.
08-26-2009, 06:48 AM
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The flaming alternator was a common problem, Nissan actually recalled them a while back. The white powder was most likely the fire extinguisher product.
I think you really need to take that car on an extended trip somewhere in order for the systems to complete their cycle and indicate a ready status.
I think you really need to take that car on an extended trip somewhere in order for the systems to complete their cycle and indicate a ready status.
08-29-2009, 11:53 AM
#9
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UPDATE:
First, I got the alternator replaced as well as the harness. I then called Nissan and my car doesn't fall into the recalled maximas with the flaming alternator. So when I get time next week I'm going down to my local dealership to bicker and see what comes of it. Probably nothing but oh well.
Now, I remember when I was first trying to diagnose my problem I would turn the key in the on position, where all the dash lights come on to see if maybe my service light was out. I remember not seeing a service engine light come on. I thought maybe there'd be a code, well, got it scanned and no codes as stated in my first post, so I didn't think anything of it. So, just now it popped back into my head. I went out to my car and put the key in the on position just for the heck of it and to my surprise BOOM, there was the check engine light shining bright!
So, since the alternator was changed I'm sure the battery was disconnected so that would reset the ECU and require the drive cycle to be completed again and therefore, no codes would show until this cycle was complete, am I right?
Could this mean that POSSIBLY my ECU wasn't getting the power it needed or am I just too hopeful?
First, I got the alternator replaced as well as the harness. I then called Nissan and my car doesn't fall into the recalled maximas with the flaming alternator. So when I get time next week I'm going down to my local dealership to bicker and see what comes of it. Probably nothing but oh well.
Now, I remember when I was first trying to diagnose my problem I would turn the key in the on position, where all the dash lights come on to see if maybe my service light was out. I remember not seeing a service engine light come on. I thought maybe there'd be a code, well, got it scanned and no codes as stated in my first post, so I didn't think anything of it. So, just now it popped back into my head. I went out to my car and put the key in the on position just for the heck of it and to my surprise BOOM, there was the check engine light shining bright!
So, since the alternator was changed I'm sure the battery was disconnected so that would reset the ECU and require the drive cycle to be completed again and therefore, no codes would show until this cycle was complete, am I right?
Could this mean that POSSIBLY my ECU wasn't getting the power it needed or am I just too hopeful?
08-29-2009, 12:46 PM
#10
Ok, you have a 1996, the CATALYST DOES NOT need to be ready to pass emissions. As for the other ones, it sounds like the shop just screwed you out of money. The EVAP and EGR won't be ready til you take the car out on the highway, turn car off, get back on the highway. After that all should be fine. You said before the check engine light wasn't on when key was turned to ON or ACC, maybe the screw on the ECU wasn't turned back to the left?
08-30-2009, 12:37 AM
#11
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Ok, you have a 1996, the CATALYST DOES NOT need to be ready to pass emissions. As for the other ones, it sounds like the shop just screwed you out of money. The EVAP and EGR won't be ready til you take the car out on the highway, turn car off, get back on the highway. After that all should be fine. You said before the check engine light wasn't on when key was turned to ON or ACC, maybe the screw on the ECU wasn't turned back to the left?
I didn't think to look at the screw on the ECU, I'll check that thanks.
09-03-2009, 04:36 AM
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so it looks like I was RIGHT. I took my car to get tested for emissions and it passed so easily! Turns out that because of the bad harness my ECU wasn't getting the power it needed to complete the monitors. I can finally drive my car without outdated tags.
Now it's time to get the front wheel bearings replaced and driver side axle.
Oh and ALL the monitors are running. EVAP/EGR/O2 Sensor/O2 Heater/CATALYST.
and there are no codes or pending codes
Now it's time to get the front wheel bearings replaced and driver side axle.
Oh and ALL the monitors are running. EVAP/EGR/O2 Sensor/O2 Heater/CATALYST.
and there are no codes or pending codes
09-03-2009, 05:44 AM
#14
In all seriousness, buying an OBDII scanner for 50 bucks would save this and future trips to that shop.
09-05-2009, 11:36 AM
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http://www.lyberty.com/car/drive-cycle_maxima.html
From what I read, 96 and 97 Maximas were a pain to get the monitors to run.
and guys, I'm all about search, hence why I have so little post and been with the .org for 4+ years. Now don't get me wrong, I do appreciate people trying to help me out with this nightmare I just went through but all in all, I don't think this problem could have been solved without the alternator catching fire. I'm sure the dealer could have found this problem, but only god knows how much I would've dumped into this car.
Again thanks guys for your input.
kevin
09-07-2009, 01:30 AM
#21
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the alt. caught on fire. caused by a short in the alt harness, replaced both. It's not for sure but I'm pretty sure that the alt harness wasn't allowing enough power to the ecu? I'm not very inclined on the electrical part of the vehicle, but that's my guess.
10-21-2009, 01:50 PM
#22
This is a known issue with 96 and 97 Maximas. I'm in the same situation where I can't get my ECU to get into the "ready" state for testing. After a bit of searching, I found the TSB regarding the problem and the detailed driving pattern required to get all five systems ready for testing. Go to Nissanhelp.com and sign up for a free account. Then go here and download TSB NTB98-018c. I just downloaded it and I'm waiting to get down to half a tank of gas (because part of the process is filling up with exactly 4 gallons of gas). This is not an easy task to do and I don't have a CONSULT diagnostic tool so I can't get the instant engine load readings that are required during the drive. Good luck to anybody that tries. I will post my results after I've tried it.
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