max80228

ok so would it be ok to bypass the connector that goes from three wires to two in hope that the charge light will then function? Or is there another work around?

gallilaw

With the help of local professional auto technicians, I have run through $2000, three new batteries and three new alternators without putting a dent in my electrical problems, so now I am on my own again.

I have significantly cleaned up and upgraded the power system wiring, including a new main alternator wire and lots of grounding improvements.

I reconnected all the switches (trunk, hood, etc.) Then I checked the alarm.

With the doors closed but NOT locked, the dash alarm indicator stays dark.

When I use the remote to set the alarm, after about 30 seconds the dash light settles into a three-second blink.

Does that mean I can safely assume that the alarm is NOT preventing the computer from going into sleep mode?


Does it mean that I can safely assume that the trunk, lock, hood, and door switches are all working and are NOT the source of a parasitic drain problem?

Without referring to the alarm indicator, how can I tell whether the car is or is not in sleep mode?


Thanks.

gscaesar

For me it was the Bose.

Had the battery draining every 2 days. Could not find problem even after pulling fuses one-at-a-time and checking current with my multimeter. So for 5 months, I had a 2nd battery and a trickle charger, and swapped them out.

Then my Bose flakes out - weird characters on display, volume control stops working, and speakers constantly hiss static. First I pulled every fuse marked audio (found 3). Still the weird display on the Bose and the noise through the speakers. Can't explain it, but okay. So I pulled the console and unplugged every harness to the Bose.

To my complete surprise, I have held a battery charge ever since!

If you have the Bose, you can test this in about 20 minutes work by pulling the center console and unplugging the Bose - just leave it in place. The Haynes manual has the sequence to pull the panels and screws.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Just re-read this thread and follow the directions to do a test on the system. Even if you have to go buy a tester for $15-$20, do it. Trust me, be patient and find the leak. I love leaving my car sit for weeks now and starts right up.

-matt

gallilaw

Took the Bose system completely out of the car; and that includes disconnecting all the connectors in that area from the clock, heater, etc.

When the car is asleep (I hope) and the hood sensor is taped soundly into the closed position, here are the fuse locations that still have current:

BATTERY IGN -- 4.20 TO 5.50 mA

ECCS 2 -- .59 mA

BCM -- 38.7 mA

ALT.S -- CHIRPED AND BLEW FUSE ON MULTIMETER !!
12 V SHOWS IN VOLTAGE MODE

Over the last few months the car has been to a local garage and to the Nissan Dealer. I wonder if it's possible that they fiddled with the harness in some way looking for one current leak and manufacturing another.


By the way, I was going to test the relays, but can't seem to pull them from the Relay box. Even using pliers to depress what appear to be the locking tabs, I pulled them mighty hard with no release; worried that if I pull too hard they might break or wreck their socket. Any advice?


Any help would be appreciated. I am going to drop this note in a couple of other related threads, just in case.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

You need to push the tabs away from the relay body, not towards it.

matty

iTrader: (54)

You need to really find out if your elecrical system IS going into "sleep" mode...meaning .01 of a draw. If its any higher, just start pulling fuses. Mine was .1 and never went into sleep. Read this thread over and be patient. You will find it eventually

-matt

gallilaw

I mis-wrote about those relays: I did try to pull them out while trying to pry the tabs out with a slender screwdriver. Nothing seemed to help. I'll try again.

What is the best and easiest and most direct way of determining, for sure, whether the brain is actually in sleep mode?

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

Above is how your Maxima should react if it is working properly. To check the current drain pull off the negative terminal of the battery and put one meter lead on the battery terminal and the other meter lead on the black battery cable that you just pulled off. If you don't know how to use or read a multimeter to check current draw find someone who does.

gallilaw

I do know how to read a multimeter, although not at a professional level. Problem is, the professionals (including the Nissan dealer) have cost me $2,000 replacing parts but never found the source of the problem.

I have two questions that if answered will help me right away:


The wiring diagram of the alternator that's on page EL-30 of the FSM shows a ground wire that leads to the E terminal on the alternator. I know that the alternator housing is grounded because it's bolted to ground, but the diagram shows a separate ground wire as well. I don't see a separate ground wire on my alternator -- which the dealer assures me is a Nissan new unit.

There is a ground wire coming out of a nearby harness, but that's grounded to a metal grounding point near but NOT on the alternator.

I am wondering if it's possible the professionals might have mis-connected the alternator. If someone could tell me -- or show me -- where I can locate (or replace if I need to) the alternator ground wire shown in the wiring diagram, that would be nice.

-------------

Also, is the ALT.S fuse supposed to be HOT all the time? It seems to say so in the FSM. Even if I disconnect the main negative connector from the battery the ALT.S fuse location remains at 12 volts and blows the fuse in my multimeter if I try to read the fuse position for mA current draw.

-------------

Finally: here are my current draw reads

BATTERY IGN -- 4.20 TO 5.50 mA

ECCS 2 -- .59 mA

BCM -- 38.7 mA

POWER WINDOW -- 22 mA

ALT.S -- BLOWS FUSE ON MULTIMETER !!

When I check the draw at the battery terminal, the total comes to about 71 mA -- roughly the total of the above 4. Although the power window fuse is suspect, a total of 71 mA doesn't seem bad enough to repeatedly run down brand new batteries.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

OK, sorry about the multimeter comment, I just was not sure. 71mA is probably too high. Mattys Maxima current draw measured the same as mine once he fixed his problem. I would expect all Maxima's with the factory alarm system to measure pretty much the same.


From your posts I cannot tell if you have done this. Pop the hood, Close all the doors and make sure everything is shut off, remove the negative battery terminal and check current draw, you should measure about 100mA (equal to 0.1 Amp). That appears to be normal. Next depress and hold the hood switch after 30 to 60 seconds the car should go into sleep mode and current drops to 10mA (equal to 0.01Amps). If your car does not respond in this way you will continue to have problems. I don't think the two items you mentioned are causing your problems, the problem existed before the Pros worked on your car so their actions should not have affected the operation. Did the pros know that the car has to get into this sleep mode? Did they consider it? I like to think I had a big part in getting Matty's Maxima repaired and would like to help you too. I like the challenge, although it can be hard to troubleshoot over the web. Let me know the results from the current measurements I recommended.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

If I remember correctly Mattys alarm system did not work properly, does yours? Should be 30 seconds after the car is locked the alarm led blinks about once every three seconds. Take those measurements as I recommended regardless.


Information below is from the FSM, EL-167 the dealer should have easily checked if the car goes into sleep mode using Consult.

“Sleep” control prevents unnecessary power consumption. About 30 seconds after the following conditions are
met, the BCM suspends the communication between itself and all LCUs. The whole IVMS system is set in the
“sleep” mode.
1) Ignition switch “OFF”
2) All electrical loads (in the IVMS) “OFF” (except the security indicator lamp)
3) Timer “OFF”

gallilaw

Thanks Nopike. I am trying to fix two problems simultaneously:

Parasitic current draw, AND

Alternator wasn't charging battery when running, and car would die if one of the battery cables were pulled off.

I have checked the current draw exactly as you and others have suggested; and today I pulled and checked all the fuses and fusible links in the box next to the battery as well as the box mounted under the driver's side dash.

The only serious current draws are associated with the fuse for the BCM (about 38 mA) and the fusible link labeled "Power Window" (about 22 mA).

I don't think the BCM ever shuts off. No matter how long I wait, it always shows about 38 mA minimum.

When the hood switch is "active" the BCM fuse shows more than 50 mA. As soon as I close the hood switch, the BCM drops down to 38 mA and stays there forever.

If I can find the circuit breaker downstream from the "Power Window" link I will try to find the exact cause of that drain tomorrow.

If you can help me find the circuit breaker that would be nice.

I think the parasitic drain is not the reason why the alternator has not been charging the battery. I am working on that problem by upgrading all the basic ground and current carrying wires.

I am also trying to figure out why I can't see a black ground wire at "Terminal E" on the alternator, when the FSM says one should be there. I right now I can't even find "Terminal E" and that's pretty embarrassing.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

CB2 is for the power windows and a a few other circuits. Location is shown in FSM EL-299. Not sure that will help much.


What's strange is that both mine and Mattys Maxima were at .1A and then .01A thirty seconds after hood switch is depressed. I would expect your Maxima to measure the same. I have the Bose system with factory alarm on my 98SE. Maybe try working on one problem at a time. Does your factory alarm work properly? Do you have any aftermarket electronics on the car?

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

All electrical loads to the IVMS have to be off before it will go into sleep mode, so if there is a bulb or some other load on you will never get sleep mode. Below is from the FMS,


The In-Vehicle Multiplexing System, IVMS (LAN system), consists of a BCM (Body Control Module) and five
LCUs (Local Control Units). Some switches and electrical loads are connected to each LCU. Some electrical
systems are directly connected to the BCM. Control of each LCU, (which is provided by a switch and electrical
load), is accomplished by the BCM, via multiplex data lines (A-1, A-2) connected between them.

gallilaw

I am baffled by some tests I ran on my alternator today.

When everything in the fuse block (near the battery) is connected, and I put a multimeter between the battery's negative post and its cable connector, I record a current draw of about 330 mA and the car never goes to sleep.

BUT...If I pull the 7.5 amp fuse labeled "ALT.S" I start off with 72 mA and after a short delay the system goes into sleep mode with less than 5 mA of current. The same thing happens if I keep the ALT.S fuse in place but pull the plastic wire connector from the S terminal of the alternator.


After talking at length with the local Nissan technician, I bypassed the fuse block.

I connected the negative cable to its post, then I disconnected the positive cable from the positive battery post; then I ran a wire directly from the positive battery post to the S terminal on the alternator.

The car's entire ground system was still working, but the only "hot" source was the positive post (not the fuse block) and the only circuit in operation went from the positive post to the alternator's S terminal then to ground then to my multimeter and then to the negative battery terminal.

When I isolated the alternator in that way, it pulled only 2.7 mA instead of 330.

AND as a further test...

I reconnected the cable to the battery's positive post, and I ran a wire directly from the ALT.S fuse location (the hot side) to the alternator's S terminal... BUT I disconnected the wire that ran from the alternator's B terminal (the main output) to the fuse block. Then I measured the draw between the negative cable and the negative post, and it was again only 2.7 mA.


This is the fourth alternator since September. It's a Nissan remanufactured alternator with less than eight miles on it. It seems that all the alternators were failing in the same way: they were leaking current.

The alternator is not leaking current through the S terminal, obviously, because when only the S terminal is connected it draws only 2.7 mA.

The alternator will draw about 330 mA through the B terminal -- but ONLY WHEN THE S TERMINAL IS CONNECTED TO POWER. When the S terminal is disconnected, the alternator behaves very well and the system goes to sleep.

Can someone help me figure out what is happening?

Thanks.

ptatohed

iTrader: (12)

Did you test the battery??

Do you have a MEVI? What RPM switch are you using?

peppers

im having issues with my max similar to things i read here. i have a 95 se 5spd. about 4 months after i bought it the ignition went. i rewired the system to bypass needing a key. no issues.

a month later i was cut off and the guy stopped in front of me. so i replaced a few parts including my hood. the new hood is fiberglass and didnt hit the security switch. i unplugged it no issues. security light is normal.

3 weeks ago my alt dies. i have it replaced and 2 days later my battery dies. i charge it then no problems. a few days go by and i commute to work so my car sits. its dead again. i charge and drive. checked the alt and batt. both passed the test. 2 days go by no problem.

last nite i go to my parents for a visit. en route my airbag and abs light start flashing and my radio goes on and off. when i get to thier house my batt reads 14v. i go out for a few hours with my dad. when i come back its dead. just enough to crank not enough to start. i leave it overnite.

today i go to the car. turn on the ignition, and everything lights up. i push the starter and it fires on the first try. i sit for a min then start to drive. after 4 minutes i notice my clock getting dim. then my lights, air and abs light come on. then i hit the gas to take it back to my parents and it sputters. i let off the throttle and it runs again. i get back just in time as the car dies. voltage just dropped. the only thing changed was the alt. everything worked perfect until that point. does my car have swine flu or something?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

So why did you hack up the wiring harness instead of replacing a ~$40 ignition switch?

How exactly did you test the battery and alternator?

peppers

well if you can find me an ignition switch for $40 with key and all ill pay you for it. i went to 5 parts stores and 2 nissan dealers. each place had a different number but all came out to over $300 because i have a stick not an automatic. its not hacked up just 3 wires for a toggle switch and a push button. did it in a few of my racecars. cost me $7

i have a computerized battery charger. it performs battery tests and alt test while hooked to the car. got a pass on all. i actually think maybe when the shop put the alt in perhaps they hooked my hood security thing back up. ill have to take a ride over and look. if its not that though im stumped.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

It wouldn't be hard to find those all day long for $20 at the yard.

Does it do load testing, or just check voltages?

Anyway, if it all started when the new alt was put in, then you know what you should be looking at, and what area.

Shift_Nismo

iTrader: (9)

hey, im new here, and im going to look at a 96 Maxima SE 5spd 2morrow, and it has a parasitic drain problem. the owner took it to a nissan dealership and said it def wasnt the alternator, which i knew already b/c the owner told me the brake and battery lights hadn't come on and the car was drivable. after doing some searching on these forums i think it is one of the trunk, door, or hood switches. the person at the dealership said it has a 12v draw somewhere. so my question is what do i look for? How do i tell if these switches are missing? can anyone show me what they look like so i will know if they are there or not?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Test for parasitic drains as you would with any other car, that's where you should start.

Shift_Nismo

iTrader: (9)

well yea i know, but im asking what do these switches look like? ive never had this problem on a car b4 and dont know what they look like. so im guessing the way to test for parasitic drains are to start somewhere, and this is where im starting since it does have a factory alarm system, and others have had this problem. there is a 12v draw somewhere, and this seems like a decent place to start my search.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

They're just switches. Look around where the body panels close, you'll see a switch.

You're going at this the wrong way, though; you start testing for parasitic drains at the fuse box, not individual components.

Shift_Nismo

iTrader: (9)

Oh i c, so i should start pulling fuses, and c if the current changes?

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

http://www.wikihow.com/Find-a-Parasitic-Battery-Drain

Shift_Nismo

iTrader: (9)

ok, thanks, hopefully i find the problem soon b/c i really want this car lol

agmetal

Planning to do this tonight, and just had a couple questions about it...how do I test the trunk likd key cylinder tamper switch, for example? Is that a separate test from just the cylinder switch? Are those (or at least one of them) tested by just using the key to unlock and lock the trunk?

Also, if/when I find the culprit, how do I access the switches to disconnect/replace them? The only ones that I actually know the location of the plugs to are the hood and trunk lid key cylinder. I'm assuming getting to the door switches will involve removing some of the interior upholstery...is that right?

agmetal

I'm confused...when I did this, the only lights that came on after the first parts of the procedure were my door and dome lights (you know, the interior lights on the doors), and they would flash intermittently (like, not in any particular rhythm that I could distinguish). This isn't what was described in the FSM, so I don't know what's going on. FWIW, my car has a build date on the frame inside the door saying Feb. 1995.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

I pulled those instructions from the 98 FSM. Good chance 95 is different or does not have the capability. I'm not sure if you have any earlier posts but have you checked to see if you have a parasitic drain using a multimeter to measure current at the battery as described in this thread? What did you measure? Why do you suspect that you have a parasitic drain.

agmetal

My car's battery drains when left undriven (or driven only very short distances) for 5ish days. The security system's LED flashes every second and never switches to a longer time between flashes, indicating that the alarm is never properly arming, and thus the computer system is never going to sleep, and draining the battery. I just need to figure out exactly what's causing it not to go to sleep.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

The two most common problems reported are the hood switch and the trunk lid key cylinder switch.

matty

iTrader: (54)

Read over this thread a few times, and perform the tests that needed. Ive seen some guys have a problem internally in their Bose system...changed out the Bose Unit, and it was fixed.
In my case it was the Trunk Cylinder Lock. The entire cylinder switch was missing. To this day, its 100% perfect. I can go weeks without turning that key, and it starts every time, first turn in zero degree weather

-matt

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

http://www.nicoclub.com/FSM/maxima/1995/el.pdf

The diagnostic check is on EL-154 looks similar to 98 FSM try that.

Go to page EL-256 and trouble shoot it yourself or let us know what is happening.

agmetal

I've already downloaded the entire FSM from that site for 1995, and ran through the diagnostic procedure in it. Which "indicator lamps" are they referring to? The ones on the dash (CEL, BRAKE, etc.), or the ones on the doors? Like I said before, the only lights that came on were the ones on the doors, as well as the dome light, and those would turn on and off randomly. Pushing the switches for the doors and hood and such didn't seem to do anything to that.

I've read through this thread a number of times, but I still don't understand what I'm doing wrong with this diagnostic.

I did try the parasitic drain test as linked by pmohr above, but since my multimeter doesn't have alligator clips or anything, it requires 3 hands to do properly, and when I tried it, I didn't seem to get any reading at all. Guess I need to try it again...

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

OK since it appears that you may not be getting that diagnostic feature to work I would suggest moving on and going to EL-256 and use the diagram to trouble shoot.

That indicates that either a door, hood or trunk switch is malfunctioning EL-259, 260, 261 explain how to check them with a voltmeter. If you do not have basic knowledge of electrical circuits or using a multimeter that does make things more difficult.

agmetal

I do, I just don't know how exactly to get to the connectors to those switches. The one for the hood is obvious since it's exposed, but it looks like the others will involve pulling out some of the interior stuff.

Nopike

iTrader: (2)

Those signals all go to the BCM. Locate the BCM. Find out which terminal of the BCM the wire for the switches runs to and have someone activate the switch while you check it with your meter. All the info is in the FSM EL section.

agmetal

It appears from the FSM that the BCM is somewhere behind/near the Bose head. Do I need to pull out interior panels or the center console or whatever to access it? I don't know how to do that.