Is there a HOW TO on replacing Water Pump?
05-19-2008, 04:09 AM
#1
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Is there a HOW TO on replacing Water Pump?
Girlfriends 96 Maxima is squeeling like a pig and now starting to lose coolant.
I got everything I needed to do the job, and after removing just the belt tensioner, I realized late Sunday afternoon was not a good time to attempt this type of pump for the first time. I've done many that are external on the fan pulley, but never one that was splined into the timing chain, and thats what scares me.
Is there a How To on this procedure?
My main question is, do you have to remove the whole timing cover to slack the chain? Or is there a access cover like for the pump itself? I see one closer to the firewall.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks
I got everything I needed to do the job, and after removing just the belt tensioner, I realized late Sunday afternoon was not a good time to attempt this type of pump for the first time. I've done many that are external on the fan pulley, but never one that was splined into the timing chain, and thats what scares me.
Is there a How To on this procedure?
My main question is, do you have to remove the whole timing cover to slack the chain? Or is there a access cover like for the pump itself? I see one closer to the firewall.
Any help is appreciated. Thanks
05-19-2008, 04:22 AM
#2
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Nevermind on the "How To"...I just found it in the maintenance threads.
Any pointers in addition to what it mentions let me know. I'm hesitant to attempt the tensioner.
The manual suggested using the pin to hold the tensioner back, and this How To said it didnt work for him. Has anyone had luck doing this job WITHOUT removing the tensioner?
Any pointers in addition to what it mentions let me know. I'm hesitant to attempt the tensioner.
The manual suggested using the pin to hold the tensioner back, and this How To said it didnt work for him. Has anyone had luck doing this job WITHOUT removing the tensioner?
Last edited by JoshBarber; 05-19-2008 at 04:30 AM.
05-19-2008, 05:30 AM
#5
05-19-2008, 05:32 AM
#6
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Still hoping I can do it without removing the tensioner.
What are average prices to pay for the job?
I HATE paying someone to work on my cars, but this job looks like it has a LOT of ways that it could go wrong fast and result in MUCH bigger problems.
05-19-2008, 05:39 AM
#7
For the worst that could happen, search for my water pump experience back in the day. Ended up having to pull the front cover to retrieve a lost tensioner, then again to redo the timing chain.
05-19-2008, 05:59 AM
#8
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Here's how I removed the tensioner a while back.
Removed the cover. Slightly loosened the 2 bolts on the tensioner. Took a large piece of saran wrap, folded it in half and and slid it in between the guide and the tensioner/plunger. Basically, I kinda wrapped the tensioner as much as I could while leaving the 2 bolts uncovered. Removed one of the bolts. Pulled the saran wrap to cover more of the tensioner. Unscrewed and carefully, pulled the 2nd bolt and the saran wrapped tensioner and plunger out of the vq. Worked for me at that time.
Instead of using saran wrap, its probably easier to use a vinyl or rubber glove or anything that is not easily torn. I did not think of using a glove or perhaps a small plastic bag at the time.
Disclaimer: I'm not responsible if the plunger and/or spring end(s) up in the case while using this method. Proceed at your own risk.
Removed the cover. Slightly loosened the 2 bolts on the tensioner. Took a large piece of saran wrap, folded it in half and and slid it in between the guide and the tensioner/plunger. Basically, I kinda wrapped the tensioner as much as I could while leaving the 2 bolts uncovered. Removed one of the bolts. Pulled the saran wrap to cover more of the tensioner. Unscrewed and carefully, pulled the 2nd bolt and the saran wrapped tensioner and plunger out of the vq. Worked for me at that time.
Instead of using saran wrap, its probably easier to use a vinyl or rubber glove or anything that is not easily torn. I did not think of using a glove or perhaps a small plastic bag at the time.
Disclaimer: I'm not responsible if the plunger and/or spring end(s) up in the case while using this method. Proceed at your own risk.
Last edited by nhaven; 05-19-2008 at 04:38 PM.
05-19-2008, 03:47 PM
#10
To get the belts off you may have to do a bit from underneath, as well as getting out the motor mount bolts.
05-20-2008, 07:20 AM
#16
how do you know when the water pump is leaking? Wouldnt it be leaking into the timing case though and not OUT of the motor?
I'm asking because I have this mystery leak that drips down on both sides of the oil pan when the car hasnt been started for a week and I cant find what it is for the life of me.
I'm asking because I have this mystery leak that drips down on both sides of the oil pan when the car hasnt been started for a week and I cant find what it is for the life of me.
05-20-2008, 09:07 AM
#18
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chillin014 - tale tell signs are A - a roaring noise coming from that area B - High Pitched Squeal (commonly opon startup) and C - Loss of coolant.
Yes it would leak into the timing case, but can eventually drip to the ground
05-20-2008, 09:38 PM
#20
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05-21-2008, 08:08 AM
#21
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Actually, the tell-tale sign is leakage of coolant behind the pass wheel. The WP has a weep hole between the two o-rings. Coolant on one side of one ring, then weep hole, then second ring. When the coolant side seal fails (i.e. losing coolant), the coolant leaks out the weep hole and is channeled out. It doesn't go into the timing case.
If it did, that would basically wreck up the engine if left to do so for any length of time as the coolant would break down the oil and everything would start to burn up.
A bad seal would not result in the squealing/roaring of course, that would be the bearing in the pump and would be a tell tale sign of a different type of failure. Not necessarily leaking coolant, just dying and eating itself mechanically.
If you're just leaking coolant, you can actually usually just replace the o-rings seals which you can buy as a kit for a couple bucks. But if you're going to go thru the trouble of getting the pump out to replace the seals, may as well replace the whole pump. They aren't expensive.
-DPF
If it did, that would basically wreck up the engine if left to do so for any length of time as the coolant would break down the oil and everything would start to burn up.
A bad seal would not result in the squealing/roaring of course, that would be the bearing in the pump and would be a tell tale sign of a different type of failure. Not necessarily leaking coolant, just dying and eating itself mechanically.
If you're just leaking coolant, you can actually usually just replace the o-rings seals which you can buy as a kit for a couple bucks. But if you're going to go thru the trouble of getting the pump out to replace the seals, may as well replace the whole pump. They aren't expensive.
-DPF
05-21-2008, 12:30 PM
#22
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Actually, the tell-tale sign is leakage of coolant behind the pass wheel. The WP has a weep hole between the two o-rings. Coolant on one side of one ring, then weep hole, then second ring. When the coolant side seal fails (i.e. losing coolant), the coolant leaks out the weep hole and is channeled out. It doesn't go into the timing case.
If it did, that would basically wreck up the engine if left to do so for any length of time as the coolant would break down the oil and everything would start to burn up.
A bad seal would not result in the squealing/roaring of course, that would be the bearing in the pump and would be a tell tale sign of a different type of failure. Not necessarily leaking coolant, just dying and eating itself mechanically.
If you're just leaking coolant, you can actually usually just replace the o-rings seals which you can buy as a kit for a couple bucks. But if you're going to go thru the trouble of getting the pump out to replace the seals, may as well replace the whole pump. They aren't expensive.
-DPF
If it did, that would basically wreck up the engine if left to do so for any length of time as the coolant would break down the oil and everything would start to burn up.
A bad seal would not result in the squealing/roaring of course, that would be the bearing in the pump and would be a tell tale sign of a different type of failure. Not necessarily leaking coolant, just dying and eating itself mechanically.
If you're just leaking coolant, you can actually usually just replace the o-rings seals which you can buy as a kit for a couple bucks. But if you're going to go thru the trouble of getting the pump out to replace the seals, may as well replace the whole pump. They aren't expensive.
-DPF
Im curious to know where its channeled out through since it sits inside the block.
The squealing I agree is a sign of mechanical failure, not necessarilly leaking from a seal; but from experience they commonly go hand in hand - I should've mentioned that because he asked about signs of a leak and I just assumed he meant signs of a bad pump...and regardless of whether its a seal leaking or shot bearings...the bottom line is that needs to be replaced. As you mentioned, replacing just the seals after you've gone through the hassle of accessing it is pretty ridiculous. Consider the feeling of replacing the seals this weekend, and having the bearings go the following weekend (i.e. - having to do it twice)...not worth taking the chance. It's like working on the timing belt and not replacing the older waterpump and tensioners while in there. Is it REALLY worth taking the chance of having to tear everything down to do it again, or replace it all while its open for peace of mind.
Last edited by JoshBarber; 05-21-2008 at 12:35 PM.
05-21-2008, 05:41 PM
#23
wow I never knew it was channeled...I'm also curious exactly where its channeled to though. Its weird because I had the leak the whole time the car was turned off and on a lift but now that I've been driving the car I havent noticed any significant leaking after parking it.
sorry to hijack.
sorry to hijack.
05-21-2008, 05:47 PM
#24
wow I never knew it was channeled...I'm also curious exactly where its channeled to though. Its weird because I had the leak the whole time the car was turned off and on a lift but now that I've been driving the car I havent noticed any significant leaking after parking it.
sorry to hijack.
sorry to hijack.
05-21-2008, 06:05 PM
#26
05-21-2008, 06:17 PM
#27
You can see part of the drainage system in this pic - http://pics.livejournal.com/boredmder/pic/000z2h96/g38
It's the slot in the bottom of the WP housing (IIRC, but that should be part of the weep system).
For some reason I don't have any pics of the rear timing cover (and the FSM doesn't show much of it). It should have a small machined area to direct the coolant outward.
But like I said, I'll get some pics tomorrow.
It's the slot in the bottom of the WP housing (IIRC, but that should be part of the weep system).
For some reason I don't have any pics of the rear timing cover (and the FSM doesn't show much of it). It should have a small machined area to direct the coolant outward.
But like I said, I'll get some pics tomorrow.
05-22-2008, 06:29 AM
#28
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wow I never knew it was channeled...I'm also curious exactly where its channeled to though. Its weird because I had the leak the whole time the car was turned off and on a lift but now that I've been driving the car I havent noticed any significant leaking after parking it.
sorry to hijack.
sorry to hijack.
. The location of the weep exit from the block is in a location that leads to coolant pooling up on passenger side end of the splash guard that runs along the front of the car, and then it doesn't necessarily always leak to the ground. If you get in, start it up and rock the car back and forth or park on an incline, you're more likely to see it start dripping if you just have a slow leak. It's just splashing out from that pool of what has leaked onto the guard.It ends up leaking down about a foot behind the passenger wheel, towards the front of the wheel if I remember right as that's where it will drain off of the guard.
It's not going to leak as much once the car is turned off so all you really see leaking is what pooled up on the splash guard or in the weep channel. Park it on an incline and let it run with a full coolant system and you see it start to drip behind the wheel if you have a fast enough leak (I did
).-DPF
Last edited by DrPaulFlammond; 05-22-2008 at 06:32 AM.
05-22-2008, 09:37 AM
#29
hmmm i see i see. It might not be my waterpump in that case because nothing is pooling into the splashguards its coming down off the front of the oil pan near the a/c compressor and then on the back near the power steering pump. hard to investigate an intermittent leak lol
05-22-2008, 11:09 AM
#30
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The leaks not intermittent, just the coolant making it to the ground to be easily seen from the front of the car after you park .
Well, how much are you losing in coolant? Once a water pump seal goes, you tend to get up to around a gallon a week or so that needs to be replenished. And it needs to be topped off every day or two.
I don't mean to offend if this seems obvious, but don't just use the reservoir as your guide, open up the rad cap (when cool) to check level and refill there. People often look at the reservoir and think it's fine. Reservoir can be full but the rad and coolant systems empty. It's warm out now so you don't have the "no heat from heater" indicator for low coolant in the system so unless you look in the rad you won't know til you start overheating. Not good. Check it each day or every other at the most and top off the radiator.
Take it in and get it pressure tested to find the leak if you don't think it's the WP. If your getting coolant leaking over on the passenger side of the engine, it's most likely your WP seal. Maybe there's just some crap/dirt/something in there that's causing the leak to wick to a different location than mine did. I'd hate to see you write off the WP as your cause just because it seems to be pooling somewhere else. Or maybe mine wicked out of the ordinary.
And by incline in may last post, I don't mean some crazy hill. Just my driveway was enough. It's slightly uphill as opposed to the relatively level garage.
-DPF
.Well, how much are you losing in coolant? Once a water pump seal goes, you tend to get up to around a gallon a week or so that needs to be replenished. And it needs to be topped off every day or two.
I don't mean to offend if this seems obvious, but don't just use the reservoir as your guide, open up the rad cap (when cool
) to check level and refill there. People often look at the reservoir and think it's fine. Reservoir can be full but the rad and coolant systems empty. It's warm out now so you don't have the "no heat from heater" indicator for low coolant in the system so unless you look in the rad you won't know til you start overheating. Not good. Check it each day or every other at the most and top off the radiator.Take it in and get it pressure tested to find the leak if you don't think it's the WP. If your getting coolant leaking over on the passenger side of the engine, it's most likely your WP seal. Maybe there's just some crap/dirt/something in there that's causing the leak to wick to a different location than mine did. I'd hate to see you write off the WP as your cause just because it seems to be pooling somewhere else
. Or maybe mine wicked out of the ordinary.And by incline in may last post, I don't mean some crazy hill. Just my driveway was enough. It's slightly uphill as opposed to the relatively level garage.
-DPF
Last edited by DrPaulFlammond; 05-22-2008 at 11:15 AM.
05-22-2008, 11:16 AM
#31
i appreciate the concern. The car has been down for a month so I've only just started driving it again. Your right though, I should take it in to get pressure tested. I thought it was either the water pump or one of the coolant logs since I might have used an old gasket when swapping them onto the new motor during replacement, or thermostat housing.
I'll check the radiator though and make sure its keeping level (yes i know not to check the reservoir lol)
I'll check the radiator though and make sure its keeping level (yes i know not to check the reservoir lol)
06-09-2008, 08:56 AM
#32
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Question, I just picked up a 99 GXE and the fluid was very low after only a few weeks of owning the car. From preliminary analysis (it's freakin 95 degrees outside), it looks like there's a sensor on the passenger side on the timing cover that is leaking fluid (guessing it's the coolant). What is that sensor? It's the only one I saw on the passenger side near the top.
06-09-2008, 08:58 AM
#33
Question, I just picked up a 99 GXE and the fluid was very low after only a few weeks of owning the car. From preliminary analysis (it's freakin 95 degrees outside), it looks like there's a sensor on the passenger side on the timing cover that is leaking fluid (guessing it's the coolant). What is that sensor? It's the only one I saw on the passenger side near the top.
If I ever see a CPS leak coolant from the timing cover, I'm calling a young priest and an old priest.
08-18-2010, 03:41 PM
#35
99% of the time (for OEM pumps), it's the o-rings that dry up, crack, and leak. The only pumps I've personally seen with actual bearing failure (shaft play) and subsequent leakage have been aftermarket.
If it's leaking from the weep hole, which appears to be leaking from the alternator or oil pan, then you need to replace the water pump. I've actually been waiting for a free day to film the entire water pump replacement procedure, as mine is bad as well (aftermarket).
08-18-2010, 08:34 PM
#36
The water pump won't squeal, short of near complete bearing failure with the impeller rubbing the timing cover; never seen one anywhere close to this.
99% of the time (for OEM pumps), it's the o-rings that dry up, crack, and leak. The only pumps I've personally seen with actual bearing failure (shaft play) and subsequent leakage have been aftermarket.
If it's leaking from the weep hole, which appears to be leaking from the alternator or oil pan, then you need to replace the water pump. I've actually been waiting for a free day to film the entire water pump replacement procedure, as mine is bad as well (aftermarket).
99% of the time (for OEM pumps), it's the o-rings that dry up, crack, and leak. The only pumps I've personally seen with actual bearing failure (shaft play) and subsequent leakage have been aftermarket.
If it's leaking from the weep hole, which appears to be leaking from the alternator or oil pan, then you need to replace the water pump. I've actually been waiting for a free day to film the entire water pump replacement procedure, as mine is bad as well (aftermarket).
08-18-2010, 08:39 PM
#37
Though the only way to know is once you've got the chain slacked and the water pump access cover plate off, to shake the gear and see if there's any shaft play. If there is, you need a pump. If there isn't, you can more than likely get away with just the o-rings.
08-18-2010, 08:42 PM
#38
Correct. Though the o-rings are ~$5/piece, so overall $10 in o-rings vs ~$85 on an OEM pump (or $30 for a cheapie on rockauto, or $50 at a local store).
Though the only way to know is once you've got the chain slacked and the water pump access cover plate off, to shake the gear and see if there's any shaft play. If there is, you need a pump. If there isn't, you can more than likely get away with just the o-rings.
Though the only way to know is once you've got the chain slacked and the water pump access cover plate off, to shake the gear and see if there's any shaft play. If there is, you need a pump. If there isn't, you can more than likely get away with just the o-rings.
08-18-2010, 08:51 PM
#39
This is good to know. So there should be no in and out play from the water pump whatsoever once I remove the timing chain from it? I wish I knew this info when I bought my max...I have an aftermarket one on there now and its been good 62K miles later....How long did yours last??
No idea how long this one has lasted, it was in the car when I bought it. After I fixed the half dozen other coolant leaks, found it was an aftermarket (and bad) after I pulled it out to re-ring it. Still getting around to replacing it.
08-27-2010, 10:51 PM
#40
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I have a question related to water pump removal. I replaced one of these in a 96 max about 8 years ago but hardly remember it. I didn't use the 2 bolt removal method of the pump and still to this day don't understand how it works. If your threading bolts into the theads in the pump and into the threads in the block that the pump mounting bolts thread into, then how does this cause the pump to walk out? I think I tried it but found it was removing the threads in the block so I stopped and just used a prybar to get the pump out.