shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

Its coming from Timing chain area, its either that or one of the pistons...

http://www.imeem.com/people/iEKATZa/...maxima_knock/#

Input?


Also is it me or does it sound like it has a vacuum leak at low RPM?

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

If it only gives u a 30 sec preview...lemme know and ill send it to you . (unless you can provide me with a better upload site)

vqmaxman

What happend man.. I think It's your valves that are tapping,at times and you might have a loose chain that's rattling. Do you have a better clip with Images?

1992maximase30

i had the same sound when i had my ve.
when revved to 7k-8k few seconds later it's followed by a knock then as weird this may sound about 10-15minutes later the noise will go away.

hows the oil: no metal shavings?

mastere954

iTrader: (17)

sounds like valves need adjustment or lifters

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

how much $$$ we looking at here?

Nope. Oil is fine. I only revved it to about 4k in that vid. Its usually only in cold starts for about 3 min, in low RPMs, then it goes away as it warms up.
Nothing, just wear and tear. Video wont show much, its a sound thing.


Thanks for replies.


EDIT - were u guys able to hear 30 secs or the whole 1 min?

blackmaxx96

iTrader: (23)

Definitely your valves.

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

very costly? Or just get a new engine? How much longer you think i got?

riceyasian86

+1 on valves.
Should open 'er up and take a look

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

Ill be doing a 00vi swap soon, can i get a look inside from there? What do i look for?

Drivin Maxima

iTrader: (7)

Sounds to me like you have a collapsed lifter/valve lash adjuster.....

sometimes its just air inside of them and they slowly fill back up with oil and stop makin noise...

Other times its just plain collapsed and will never fill back up with oil.

You can just replace the lifter, but is quite the task....with the utter abundancey of the VQ30 it's more worth it to buy another engine IMO and properly install the 00VI and do some maintainance while its out of the car, then install it....in the mean time, drive your motor now till it dies.

njmaxseltd

iTrader: (19)

Our VQ's don't have hydraulic lifters

It's a bucket and shim setup.

The noise, a tapping sound, does sound like it's up in the head.
If it were a bearing or rod the knock would be much deeper in tone.

DrPaulFlammond

I second njMax, no lifters here.

I had the same noises. Dead nuts match. We went thru this on another thread a couple weeks ago.

For me, it's a shot TC tensioner which led to worn guides. Sounds like it's coming from around the pass side of the valve cover.

What's your mileage?

To correct you'll need at least a new TC tensioner. Depending on year and what's in there, you may need to replace the slack guide along with the tensioner. If your tensioners been dying for a while, just replacing it may not totally fix the issue as your guides may be worn. What your hearing is the chain rattling in the upper chain guide due to not being properly tensioned. It takes a while for your tensioner to fully actuate due to being gunked up. It takes the oil pressure a few minutes to get it extended. This is why the noise goes away or gets lighter after a while.[edit to add] BTW, if you're noise goes completely away after a few minutes, you may be able to get away with the Best case as lited below. That would be good news. If it doesn't go away completely after warming up and running for a while, you'd be well served to consider the next option.[/edit]

Best case: New TC tensioner. You can replace this yourself. Though it's kind of tough to get to. Certainly do-able. Taking it out is part of the water pump replacement procedure. You can look for the procedure for replacing the WP on here and you'll find instructions.

Worst case: New tensioner and guides, may as well put in a new chain if you have high mileage. This can be pricey as it's a bit of labor. I'd be guessing if I said ~$1000-1200. I have a buddy do it for cheap so I I can't say for sure what it would cost. Timing chain cover has to come off and of course all the proper alignment during re-assembly. A lot has to come out to get the TC cover off.

I've got to do the worst case. As I went thru in the last thread. I had mine in for as new water pump, was going to get a new tensioner to fix the rattle. Once open he saw how the guides were worn, advised replacing guides and chain as well during another visit since it was after hours and we didn't have time for everything (mine was the older 96 tensioner which had to be replaced with the updated version including the new slack guide).

For the time being he cleaned up and freed up my tensioner (it had varnished up to the point that it wouldn't come apart, usually they need to be pinned or fly apart during removal). So the old tensioner is working again. 95% of the rattle is gone just from that. I can still hear a very faint tick due to the worn guides and I know what to listen for.

-DPF

Drivin Maxima

iTrader: (7)

Sorry for the bad info....I havent dug into my VQ like I did with my VE.

VE had the Hydraulic Lash Adjusters......

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

Mileage is ****ty. About less than 17 mpg

vilmaxima

I think I may have a problem VERY similar to yours.

DrPaulFlammond

Sorry, I meant how many miles on the car . Just as a reference point since the tensioners seem to get pretty flaky after about 150K miles. Mine made it to about 270K, I think. odo died 10 years ago (@100K).

If your over 200 then I would strongly suggest the new timing chain if you had to go with the second option in my other post.

As for your gas mileage, any O2 codes or a ghost KS code? You should be getting better than that.

-DPF

DrPaulFlammond

I may be wrong since I wasn't around the org for a few years, but it seems like there's an awful lot of this going around lately. I think these are hitting an age where we're seeing the tensioners binding up pretty regularly. Could be miles or just years. They just get gummed up from age, don't actuate properly and then the chain wears the guides.

If you do a search for valve noise or valve chatter you'll get a lot of 4th gen hits. It seems to be commonly mis-diagnosed as valve chatter. The one exception being a member who actually threw a lash shim. It was loose under his valve cover. Like a nickel rattling around in the cams. Good times.

-DPF

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

158k

Kbghdg

iTrader: (1)

I got the exact same noise on my 95 gle w/186k. I can hear at first start in the morning then goes away after warm up. Will the timing chain eventually break or jump gear if is not repaired?

DrPaulFlammond

Well, I can't tell you for absolute certain that it wouldn't ever jump under any circumstances. However, it's highly unlikely and I've read of many driving these for a long time with this noise going on. Even my mechanic said mine may be good for years even as worn as the guides are. He couldn't absolutely rule out the chain skipping, but wasn't worried about it. We plan to do the tensioner/guide/chain replacement "whenever we can get to it" this summer.

It's very common for these to make this noise loudly when first started in cold weather. This is the first sign of the tensioner bunging up. It takes a little while (seconds) for the oil pressure to overcome the drag on the cylinder. This happens all the time and most just let it go. Over time it will get worse and take longer for the tensioner to actuate, even under normal conditions as the cylinder gets stickier and stickier.

As the tensioner sticks more and more the guides get worn during the time it takes for the tensioner to actuate. This compounds the problem because as the guides wear, the chain isn't properly tensioned even when the tensioner is fully extended. Under these conditions you have my situation where the clicking is muted, but still present most of the time. It's much less pronounced than before now that my tensioner is working properly.

If yours goes silent/near silent after a few minutes, your guides are likely still fine.

Here's what I'd suggest:
Since you have a 95, it's going to be the old style tensioner. Late in the 96 year cycle they changed the design. It changed the angle at which the tensioner applies the load to the slack guide.

I've heard conflicting reports as to if you can get the old style tensioners or not. You may be able to but it may take some work or sweet talk at a dealership.

If you can get one, replace the tensioner. It's not hard. I'll dig up the WP thread I spoke of earlier. You remove the tensioner cover, pin the cylinder back, remove the tensioner, install the new one, gasket and reinstall cover.

If you have to get a new style tensioner, you'll also need to get a new slack guide as the mating geometry changed to fit the new tensioner angle. This would require removing the timing chain cover as I noted above (the Worst Case).

As another option if you would need a new one. You can try what my mechanic did. Take the existing one off and see about bringing it back to life. Take it out, see if you can get it apart (cylinder out) clean it all up so the cylinder moves freely again. Put it back in. See if it works better than before. You're only out your time.

-Making up for low post count by being long winded-

And here is a link to the thread from a few weeks ago. In there I put links to the Water Pump DIY with pics of the tensioner and links to the Autozone FSM pages showing all the tensioner/guides/chain stuff we're talking about. I think there's a link to the thread with the member who threw the lash shim as well just for fun. Those are some scary pics if you envision all the motion in there.

-DPF

Divewjason

+1 on the valves.

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

thanks bro, much appreciated

and what if it its the valves? what can i do about it?

vqmaxman

I said It's your valves and make sure you get It check out to make this a scenero true. You are now going to have to buy a new upper top part for the engine the whole new valves and camsheads etc.

DrPaulFlammond

I really doubt it's a valve. I won't rule it out, but I find it very unlikely.

You'd have to have a damaged valve, a worn lash shim, or a flattened cam lobe for the valves to start making noise. Being the solid link shim and bucket setup, these things don't mess up the valve train unless you really push them. The only instance I dug up was the one guy who threw the shim, and he was running 7200rpm+ and pressurized.

Yes, it sounds a lot like valve chatter and that's what everyone (including me when mine was doing it) jumps to cause it just seems logical and sounds like it's coming from the valve cover.

However, the whole tensioner thing is very common and sounds exactly like the clip posted.

I'd look into the tensioner before getting nuts with the valve train. If you have a Nissan mechanic you can trust for real opinion, let him check it out. A mechanic who doesn't constantly work on VQs may also assume valve chatter for the reasons listed above.

Just trying to help.

-DPF

mywhitewolf

Ditto, i had the same problem, its a timing chain tensioner

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

STOP! dont post again untill you know what your saying.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

shady- what kind of oil do you use? Weight wise?

DrPaulFlammond

Thanks Blackwind. I don't have the postcount to feel comfortable going on the offensive .

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

5w30 i think. Castrol GTX

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

ok hats good. bump it up to 10-40, don't question it! just do it and thank me a week later. afterwards if you still have the anoying tick (which you may0 replace the parts as recommended earlier. anything else pm me.

shadyonedeath

iTrader: (10)

y r u banned....

vqmaxman

I am not the one that needs to stop posting,your the one that needs to stop,because If it were the tensioners wouldn't It have a heavy matalliac rattling sound vs the light tapping sound that the valves make.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

no. not as loud as you think. in fact the reason you would think lifters is because on a cold start BEFORE the oil has really started to flow through the system it will sound like VE VTC sprokets.

Blackwind

iTrader: (9)

it happened during the upgrade and it just never got fixed. i have never in the 6 years ive been here been banned.