Ticking noise
03-12-2008, 10:32 AM
#1
Ticking noise
I got a rather loud ticking noise, tho im not sure, i think it comes from the belt area... could be internal tho too (hopefully not). It ticks roughly 2-3 times per sec very consistently at idle. The ticking gets faster as I rev the motor.
What could this be?
No codes, and i've noticed no change in performance or anything at all.
Ticking has been going on for a while.
What could this be?
No codes, and i've noticed no change in performance or anything at all.
Ticking has been going on for a while.
03-12-2008, 01:18 PM
#6
i am overdue for an oil change... but this noise was there prior to and right after my last oil change. I will check my oil level but I highly doubt it has anything to do with oil.
03-12-2008, 07:28 PM
#8
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I would say to have the hood open the next time you start to see pinpoint where the ticking is coming from. Then you should be able to diagnose or let us know here and then one of us can identify what it could possibly be.
03-12-2008, 08:34 PM
#9
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Join Date: Jun 2007
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03-12-2008, 10:57 PM
#10
03-13-2008, 06:43 AM
#12
Would this change anything in performance? My car idles/drives/WOT's just fine and as it always had. There is no change in performance that I can notice.
Anyhoo going to mechanic today, see what he can find out.
Anyhoo going to mechanic today, see what he can find out.
03-18-2008, 10:26 AM
#13
They have hydraulic lifters for the purpose of relieving the gap between the lifter and the cam lobe. In the hydraulic lifter, it constantly expands to fill the clearance between the two. Otherwise we would constantly be adjusting the gap.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
03-19-2008, 04:37 PM
#14
They have hydraulic lifters for the purpose of relieving the gap between the lifter and the cam lobe. In the hydraulic lifter, it constantly expands to fill the clearance between the two. Otherwise we would constantly be adjusting the gap.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
I talked to a friend he said it sounds like lifters ticking.
What can I do to attempt to quite this tick down?
03-19-2008, 04:57 PM
#15
i believe its air in the cylinder head, and from what the mechanic told me for my old mazda mpv which had that noise was to only worry about it if it gets louder otherwise its nothing big 
cuz to get rid of it you would have to replace the cylinder head 
cuz to get rid of it you would have to replace the cylinder head
03-20-2008, 05:31 AM
#16
They have hydraulic lifters for the purpose of relieving the gap between the lifter and the cam lobe. In the hydraulic lifter, it constantly expands to fill the clearance between the two. Otherwise we would constantly be adjusting the gap.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
There would be a decrease in performance with the collapsed lifter, because the valve would not be opening to its full amount.
Good answer mate! I'll add this too though ... that is why we don't need to worry about valve adjustments!
to the OP: have you ever changed your timming tensioner? how many miles you got on the car? one way to check all of this is simple, pull the belt for the AC / Alt (just remember the tensioner is backwards - to loosen it, you actually tighten it!) and see if the noise goes away. if the noise is on tick over, most likely the TC tensioner. hope this helps
Last edited by JtzMax; 03-20-2008 at 05:33 AM.
03-20-2008, 06:47 PM
#17
Well, I would try JtzMax's idea first. As far as air being in the cylinder head, I am confused about this. There is always air in the cylinder head (for combustion), do you mean in the cooling passages?
Collapsed lifters need to be replaced. It is hard on the valvetrain. I would suspect a good vibration from a collapsed lifter, and a drop in performance significant enough to detect easily.
You can't really quiet them down either. They are like your cars shocks, with the oil being used as a dampener. In a collapsed lifter they don't expand after being depressed, which leads to this ticking.
Collapsed lifters need to be replaced. It is hard on the valvetrain. I would suspect a good vibration from a collapsed lifter, and a drop in performance significant enough to detect easily.
You can't really quiet them down either. They are like your cars shocks, with the oil being used as a dampener. In a collapsed lifter they don't expand after being depressed, which leads to this ticking.
03-21-2008, 07:27 AM
#18
Well, I would try JtzMax's idea first. As far as air being in the cylinder head, I am confused about this. There is always air in the cylinder head (for combustion), do you mean in the cooling passages?
Collapsed lifters need to be replaced. It is hard on the valvetrain. I would suspect a good vibration from a collapsed lifter, and a drop in performance significant enough to detect easily.
You can't really quiet them down either. They are like your cars shocks, with the oil being used as a dampener. In a collapsed lifter they don't expand after being depressed, which leads to this ticking.
Collapsed lifters need to be replaced. It is hard on the valvetrain. I would suspect a good vibration from a collapsed lifter, and a drop in performance significant enough to detect easily.
You can't really quiet them down either. They are like your cars shocks, with the oil being used as a dampener. In a collapsed lifter they don't expand after being depressed, which leads to this ticking.
Good answer mate! I'll add this too though ... that is why we don't need to worry about valve adjustments!
to the OP: have you ever changed your timming tensioner? how many miles you got on the car? one way to check all of this is simple, pull the belt for the AC / Alt (just remember the tensioner is backwards - to loosen it, you actually tighten it!) and see if the noise goes away. if the noise is on tick over, most likely the TC tensioner. hope this helps
to the OP: have you ever changed your timming tensioner? how many miles you got on the car? one way to check all of this is simple, pull the belt for the AC / Alt (just remember the tensioner is backwards - to loosen it, you actually tighten it!) and see if the noise goes away. if the noise is on tick over, most likely the TC tensioner. hope this helps
03-21-2008, 09:27 AM
#19
03-21-2008, 11:09 AM
#20
03-26-2008, 01:53 PM
#22
Here the vid, sorry it took a while.
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t=08032604.flv
http://s11.photobucket.com/albums/a1...t=08032604.flv
03-27-2008, 07:43 AM
#24
You can hear the ticking the best when theres 7 secs left in the video. I'll try to get a better video...
Last edited by udienow; 03-27-2008 at 07:47 AM.
03-27-2008, 07:48 AM
#25
kinda sounds like injectors....hard to tell from the vid.
I had a similar noise, but the noise did change some from week to week and with the temperature. Turned out to be the bearings in the idler pulley. Take yours off, put it on your finger and spin it. You'll be able to feel if the bearings aren't smooth.
I had a similar noise, but the noise did change some from week to week and with the temperature. Turned out to be the bearings in the idler pulley. Take yours off, put it on your finger and spin it. You'll be able to feel if the bearings aren't smooth.
03-27-2008, 08:45 AM
#26
ticking=usually lifter noise. Imo check the injectors first.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....t=lifter+noise
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread....t=lifter+noise
Last edited by Fadrvr; 03-27-2008 at 08:50 AM.
03-27-2008, 08:53 AM
#27
No i am 99% sure that isnt a normal injector noise. The camera does not do justice to capture the sound it makes... it is far from normal. I'll park between 2 walls and try to tape it again from further away (to eliminate engine noise). You can hear this when standing a few feet back outside with the hood closed, its that loud.
You can hear the ticking the best when theres 7 secs left in the video. I'll try to get a better video...
You can hear the ticking the best when theres 7 secs left in the video. I'll try to get a better video...
03-27-2008, 09:30 AM
#28
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 45
Udie,
I just went thru this, well am currently still, but mine's diagnosed.
I was fearful it was valve chatter. These don't have hydraulic lifters, they use the shim and bucket setup so if its valve noise it would mean either a worn shim or a damaged cam lobe. Neither are likely, but if they're the cause, that means some disassembly and special tools for the shims that the dealer has. There's a thread I'll try and dig up where a member actually had a shim come out. He took nice pics of under the valve covers so you can see the valve setup.
You're deal is more likely (if it's definitely not injector noise) the chain tensioner and/or guides. That's my issue right now. I just had it open to swap out the water pump. I had started having the ticking/chatter in the last week or so. Since he was going to be in there and removing the chain tensioner anyway for swapping the water pump, I asked for a new tensioner as well. If that didn't fix it, then it was valve lash due to the issues noted above and that would be left alone until it ate itself.
Well, normally when you remove the chain tensioner you need to pin it to keep it from popping apart. Mine came out and was so varnished up he couldn't get it apart without a lot of work. My tensioner was shot and as a result, my guides are very worn and need to be replaced as well. This is the cause of ticking/racket. It sounds like valve chatter under the valve cover, but it's really the timing chain rattling around as it has too much slack due to worn guides.
My mech does it after hours for cheap so he couldn't replace all the bits during this visit. We're going to arrange for a Saturday job. Replacement of the guides requires taking off the timing chain cover.
If yours is just the tensioner (not uncommon), then you may be able to replace that yourself as long as you don't need to replace the guides as well. Find the thread with the procedure for replacing a water pump. Part of that procedure is removal of the timing chain tensioner. If you're guides aren't worn, you may be able to get away with that. It's a $50 part.
I missed it in the thread if it's there but what's your mileage? I got to 250K+ before mine crapped out. I think from reading threads on the topic over the last week that anything over ~150K becomes a risk of needing a new tensioner at least.
For the time being, my old tensioner was freed up and back in service until I can get it back in for a new one and the revised guides (mine's a 96). It still ticks due to the worn guides, but not nearly as loud as before he freed up the tensioner.
Here's the water pump thread
It's the chain tensioner, not the belt tensioner assembly. Bottom of the third post in that thread.
-DPF
I just went thru this, well am currently still, but mine's diagnosed.
I was fearful it was valve chatter. These don't have hydraulic lifters, they use the shim and bucket setup so if its valve noise it would mean either a worn shim or a damaged cam lobe. Neither are likely, but if they're the cause, that means some disassembly and special tools for the shims that the dealer has. There's a thread I'll try and dig up where a member actually had a shim come out. He took nice pics of under the valve covers so you can see the valve setup.
You're deal is more likely (if it's definitely not injector noise) the chain tensioner and/or guides. That's my issue right now. I just had it open to swap out the water pump. I had started having the ticking/chatter in the last week or so. Since he was going to be in there and removing the chain tensioner anyway for swapping the water pump, I asked for a new tensioner as well. If that didn't fix it, then it was valve lash due to the issues noted above and that would be left alone until it ate itself.
Well, normally when you remove the chain tensioner you need to pin it to keep it from popping apart. Mine came out and was so varnished up he couldn't get it apart without a lot of work. My tensioner was shot and as a result, my guides are very worn and need to be replaced as well. This is the cause of ticking/racket. It sounds like valve chatter under the valve cover, but it's really the timing chain rattling around as it has too much slack due to worn guides.
My mech does it after hours for cheap so he couldn't replace all the bits during this visit. We're going to arrange for a Saturday job. Replacement of the guides requires taking off the timing chain cover.
If yours is just the tensioner (not uncommon), then you may be able to replace that yourself as long as you don't need to replace the guides as well. Find the thread with the procedure for replacing a water pump. Part of that procedure is removal of the timing chain tensioner. If you're guides aren't worn, you may be able to get away with that. It's a $50 part.
I missed it in the thread if it's there but what's your mileage? I got to 250K+ before mine crapped out. I think from reading threads on the topic over the last week that anything over ~150K becomes a risk of needing a new tensioner at least.
For the time being, my old tensioner was freed up and back in service until I can get it back in for a new one and the revised guides (mine's a 96). It still ticks due to the worn guides, but not nearly as loud as before he freed up the tensioner.
Here's the water pump thread
It's the chain tensioner, not the belt tensioner assembly. Bottom of the third post in that thread.
-DPF
Last edited by DrPaulFlammond; 03-27-2008 at 09:39 AM.
03-27-2008, 09:38 AM
#29
ive been watching this thread, and what DrP has said, I dont get a warm fuzzy. i had my water pump replaced back in january, and the tensioner was locked up as well. got it replaced, and ive noticed some extra rattling noises coming from the timing chain cover. but it seems to be coming from the front set of cams. this would lead me to elieve that its the old chain on the new pump sprocket maybe? i would hope that my guides arent shot like DrP's.
Pretty much anything that couldve gone out in dec, jan, and feb did in the f'ing cold months where i couldnt work on the car, so ive gotten a little concerned about the guy that was working on the car at my shop. i think he was getting tired of seeing that car so i hope i didnt get screwed on the water pump job. sadly i wouldnt be abe to prove anything.
any advice on the noises would be appreciated.
NM91
Pretty much anything that couldve gone out in dec, jan, and feb did in the f'ing cold months where i couldnt work on the car, so ive gotten a little concerned about the guy that was working on the car at my shop. i think he was getting tired of seeing that car so i hope i didnt get screwed on the water pump job. sadly i wouldnt be abe to prove anything.
any advice on the noises would be appreciated.
NM91
03-27-2008, 10:04 AM
#30
DPF- Thx for writing all that out... good info. My car has 120k on it...
03-27-2008, 11:28 AM
#31
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 45
i had my water pump replaced back in january, and the tensioner was locked up as well. got it replaced, and ive noticed some extra rattling noises coming from the timing chain cover. but it seems to be coming from the front set of cams. this would lead me to elieve that its the old chain on the new pump sprocket maybe? i would hope that my guides arent shot like DrP's.
NM91
NM91
Mine sounds the same as your describing. If you're listening under the hood, it sounds like the clacking is coming from the left side under the front valve cover. This led to my worry about valve lash, which for the time/money required to repair this, it wouldn't be worth it with the high mileage on the old beast. As it turns out, it seems it's due to the guides/tensioner in my case. What I'm hearing is the chain a bit loose thru the upper guide.
A good reference is the Autozone site and look to their online repair manuals for good diagrams of what I'm talking about. Look up the pages for the timing chain. See if this link works.
Scroll down to the VQ30DE and see the guide setup. You can see how if the tensioner isn't properly functioning it can lead to all kinds of contact for the chain. This then wears the guides.
When my mech got a look at mine he said my tensioner guide looks like railroad tracks from the wear. Definitely need a new one. Won't know about the others until he gets the timing chain cover off.
Oh, and Here's the forum thread with the cam/shim/valve pics. He threw a shim clean out, but excessive wear of those shims the cams ride on can lead to the valve chatter I was originally worried about. I doubt this is the condition with any of the posters here as the whole tesioner/guide thing seem pretty widespread in 4G's with high mileage. Do a search for "valve lash" or "valve chatter" or other various noise descriptions.
I'm certainly not complaining though. This beast is still going at at least 250-275K miles (odo broke at 100K ~ten years ago
). So she's held up pretty well. Fingers crossed she lives long enough to get a lightly used 09 in a bit over a year. Just trying to save you guys some of the exhaustive searching I've done over the last couple weeks.
-DPF
Last edited by DrPaulFlammond; 03-27-2008 at 11:34 AM.
03-27-2008, 03:30 PM
#32
I was gonna mention timing chain tensioner but from the video it just sounds like injector noise (common) to me. Oh ... BTW Doc! we DO have hydraulic lifters in our cars, thus the reason we don't need to worry about valve adjustments. 
TC Tensioner is not too bad, if you have small hands that is. lol 2 - 10mm bolts under the cover (which has 4 -10mm holding it on). Just be VERY carefull not to drop anything down in the TC cover, or you'll be up **** creek with only 1/2 a paddle. You don't need to remove the PS rez, or the front mount, but it may help. (no need to support the engine if you do remove the mount, but have fun with that bastard if you so choose) For the PS rez, just pull it up off the bracket, zip tie it outta the way and undo the AC line brace from the strut tower, gives you more room.
As for the TC Tensioner itself ... undo the top bolt and remove it (*TOP only at this point) and loosen the bottom bolt so the tensioner will rock counterclockwise. Slide the plunger back (it sets inside the housing of the tensioner) and use a paper clip or whateva to slide thru the pin hole and lock the plunger back. Then remove the lower bolt and slide it out. Just did mine about a week or two ago and it's not that hard really. Hope you get it ... hope this helps!
TC Tensioner is not too bad, if you have small hands that is. lol 2 - 10mm bolts under the cover (which has 4 -10mm holding it on). Just be VERY carefull not to drop anything down in the TC cover, or you'll be up **** creek with only 1/2 a paddle. You don't need to remove the PS rez, or the front mount, but it may help. (no need to support the engine if you do remove the mount, but have fun with that bastard if you so choose) For the PS rez, just pull it up off the bracket, zip tie it outta the way and undo the AC line brace from the strut tower, gives you more room.
As for the TC Tensioner itself ... undo the top bolt and remove it (*TOP only at this point) and loosen the bottom bolt so the tensioner will rock counterclockwise. Slide the plunger back (it sets inside the housing of the tensioner) and use a paper clip or whateva to slide thru the pin hole and lock the plunger back. Then remove the lower bolt and slide it out. Just did mine about a week or two ago and it's not that hard really. Hope you get it ... hope this helps!
03-27-2008, 05:37 PM
#33
yea, i dont think we have a problem like that. im pretty sure its in the chain travel. Eventually when i get to working on my 97 SE 5sp, ill get it to where it is a reliable dd, and ill probably pull this one and redo the timing chain, or at the least tensioners. but hell, i might as well get a new motor so i have a spare. long term plans on the 97 is a turbo i know the trans on this one is going out. BTW this one with the noise is a 96 SE auto with ~159K. i know all this came about due to the water pump being changed and the tensioner being bad.
if i mentioned it before, sorry, but i agree its in the chain. if you could, post some pics of the guides and all when you gets yours torn apart, or if thats a problem, PM me and i can get you my email for you to send them that way.
Thanks again DrP.
NM91
P.S.: im still going strong to other than the noise and KS and trans. will probly do the KS soon.
i know the trans on this one is going out. BTW this one with the noise is a 96 SE auto with ~159K. i know all this came about due to the water pump being changed and the tensioner being bad. if i mentioned it before, sorry, but i agree its in the chain. if you could, post some pics of the guides and all when you gets yours torn apart, or if thats a problem, PM me and i can get you my email for you to send them that way.
Thanks again DrP.
NM91
P.S.: im still going strong to other than the noise and KS and trans. will probly do the KS soon.
03-28-2008, 07:33 AM
#34
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 45
Basically it's set it and forget it and normally good for the life of the engine. Under extreme cases, like the one I linked to above, there may be an issue. Or if run without enough oil in there you can wear a shim (or flatten a lobe).
Maybe I'm wrong, but that's how I understand it.
-DPF
Last edited by DrPaulFlammond; 03-28-2008 at 07:41 AM.
03-28-2008, 07:47 AM
#35
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Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 45
BTW this one with the noise is a 96 SE auto with ~159K. i know all this came about due to the water pump being changed and the tensioner being bad.
if i mentioned it before, sorry, but i agree its in the chain. if you could, post some pics of the guides and all when you gets yours torn apart, or if thats a problem, PM me and i can get you my email for you to send them that way.
Thanks again DrP.
NM91
P.S.: im still going strong to other than the noise and KS and trans. will probly do the KS soon.
if i mentioned it before, sorry, but i agree its in the chain. if you could, post some pics of the guides and all when you gets yours torn apart, or if thats a problem, PM me and i can get you my email for you to send them that way.
Thanks again DrP.
NM91
P.S.: im still going strong to other than the noise and KS and trans. will probly do the KS soon.
. I really want to get pics of how bad at least the slack guide is worn. I didn't get to see it when he did the WP.And if you haven't done the KS before, I advise hiring the help of a 10 yr old. Someone with tiny hands who can get in there with a ratcheting wrench so you can remove it without taking the intake off. I didn't have enough room for my sausage fingers so the whole thing had to come off for that stupid sensor when I did mine a few years ago.
Ok, back to topic.
-DPF
03-31-2008, 07:56 AM
#36
I am still working on getting you guys a better video, I will try to get that tonight.
Also one more thing to add. On initial start, when the cars been sitting and has cooled off, there is no ticking noise, car sounds normal as it used to before this ticking noise started. The noise starts after about a minute or so of the car being on. After that it is constatly making that ticking noise. Idk if that makes any difference, but thought it might help. DPF, was your car like this too?
Also one more thing to add. On initial start, when the cars been sitting and has cooled off, there is no ticking noise, car sounds normal as it used to before this ticking noise started. The noise starts after about a minute or so of the car being on. After that it is constatly making that ticking noise. Idk if that makes any difference, but thought it might help. DPF, was your car like this too?
03-31-2008, 09:22 AM
#37
i had that same problem too. No problem with driveability or performance just a loud ticking noise that came from the engine and as i revved higher the ticking went faster and a bit louder. Drove it like that for many months.
Once i had a personal mechanic work on it he took off the oil pan and he found peices of metal in there. So he took apart the motor and replaced whatever was messed up (i can't think of what it was exactly but i will try to remember) and now the car runs great without that annoying tick
Once i had a personal mechanic work on it he took off the oil pan and he found peices of metal in there. So he took apart the motor and replaced whatever was messed up (i can't think of what it was exactly but i will try to remember) and now the car runs great without that annoying tick
03-31-2008, 10:53 AM
#38
Member
Join Date: Sep 2002
Posts: 45
Can't say Udie. Mine's intermittent. Usually when the tensioner is going/gone, it's worst at startup since the tensioner needs to pressurize. This is what leads to the cold-start rattle many get. It's the loose chain until the tensioner pressurizes.
Now that my tensioner is working properly, I don't get the the cold start rattle, but I get the intermittent timing chain clatter from the bad guide(s). However, it is faint compared to the bad tensioner rattle. Tends to be on and off once the engine is warmed up. More on than off.
-DPF
Now that my tensioner is working properly, I don't get the the cold start rattle, but I get the intermittent timing chain clatter from the bad guide(s). However, it is faint compared to the bad tensioner rattle. Tends to be on and off once the engine is warmed up. More on than off.
-DPF
04-15-2008, 01:23 PM
#39
see whats wierd here is that I dont have the ticking noise at initial start where you say a bad tc tensioner would be at its worst. The ticking noise is the worst after the car has been on for a minute or 2. It basically gets worse/louder as the car warms up.
I'm having trouble capturing the sound on video, but i am still trying.
I'm having trouble capturing the sound on video, but i am still trying.
10-04-2008, 05:10 PM
#40
ive got a ticking sound thats very horrible and annoying.. This seems different from others though as you only hear it the engine is on the down-rev.. say from 2000rpm down. Surely sounds like an internal problem