throttlehappy46

Hoping some of you guys would have access to the binary/hex addresses in the 95~97 spec VQ30 ECU?

I am fitting a fully programmable daughterboard to the stock ECU so I can tune it to suit my needs. Just need a stock base file as a reference point.

Going to raise the rev limit on the VQ35, optimising ignition timing tables and alter the fuel tables as well. Also keen to upgrade to a Z32 MAF to get rid of the restriction prior to my twin throttle body setup

Any help much appreciated

For those of you not familiar with it, the daughterboard interface looks like this:

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Look up the threads on the Nissan Data Scan software, you might get some info there.

HomerMAC

iTrader: (5)

I think phatg20.net had some ecu files. you might be inclined to take a look over there in the downloads section

maxine'sMan

iTrader: (6)

You may have better luck in the all motor forum.. very interesting though keep at it!

throttlehappy46

phatg20.net was a bust, could not find anything there.

Tried the Nissan Datascan website links and still no luck. Think we might have to try mapping it out bit by bit and seeing how it comes together.

I will keep looking but getting access to the VQ30 binary files is hard.

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

What is this costing you? If it is over 500$, an EMU might suit your needs a little better.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Definitely wish I could help - that info isn't readily available to the best of my knowledge. That's the reason that Nistune and the others don't have anything for the VQ. As far as I know, the only ones with that info besides Nissan are JWT and Technosquare (formerly G-Force formerly UPRD). If someone were to get a romulator/user editable daughter board solution up and working on the VQ it'd blow any of our other current tuning methods right out of the water and make them almost entirely obsolete. Unfortunately the market is so small that the effort hasn't been put forth. I hope you or someone is able to get it working because that would be fantastic for those of us who want that type of control.

Tatanko

iTrader: (34)

^ What he said. This is very interesting. Subscribing.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I do have a tecu and VQ30.a32 file if you want those, I have no idea how to use it but you can try if you want.

throttlehappy46

Works out around $490 Australian dollars, which is under US$450 at the moment. EMU is pathetic, being a 'sensor bender' piggy-back style unit. Your still limited to the stock ECU coding to an extent. Besides, EMU cannot adjust throttle enrichment(the tiny amount of fuel squirted in each time you tap the throttle) and cannot compensate for the distance between the MAF and the throttlebody, adjust cold start enrichment and cold start timing advance, etc and there are a few other features as well that a piggy back unit could never emulate.
1 - Flat shifting(hold throttle flat while you change gears)
2 - Launch control - limit engine power until you reach a certain road speed on the rear wheels, etc
3 - Built in turbo timer
4 - Ability to remove the MAF and run a MAP sensor
etc

kevlo911: would you mind emailing it to iamhappy46@hotmail.com
Even a basic idea of where we have to start would make things much easier than mapping them out ourselves from scratch

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Actually the Emanage Ultimate can do items 1, 2 and 4. There is no question I'd rather have an emulator than a piggyback though.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

I am sending everything in a ZIP folder.

throttlehappy46

Thanks Kevlo911. Soldering in the board this weekend and test it out on the dyno early next week. The VQ30 stock program is ridiculously rich and overly retarded on the ignition tables!

The other advantage is that I can use a PWM output from the daughterboard to utilise the VQ35 VTC system and use a built in Analogue to digital converter to alter fuel and ignition timing curves based on the amount of advance/retard the cam is 'seeing' and the load the car is under.

Also has a built in turbo boost controller, three configurable maps, four switchable outputs and five on/off switch inputs I am hoping to get around 270hp@wheels from the VQ35 in my car

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

Are you associated with a company that may produce these for people to purchase if it all works out, or are you just doing this for yourself? Because if it ends up being similar to the emulator I've seen used for the VG then I'd buy one for the VQ in a heartbeat. Half a heartbeat if it also had 2-step launch control (the VG one I've seen used does not have that feature).

throttlehappy46

I do not work for the company involved but I have used them in a few cars. The owner/creator is testing out if it works and he has had great success with doing this sort of thing. The boards have actually been around for a while and quite a few people are using them in their SR20VE powered cars, using an SR20DE computer but tuned to suit the SR20VE. On the SR20VE motor, the board allows us to set the rpm point for the intake and exhaust VVL system to engage. One guy is getting the equivalent of 200whp(on an American dyno) from extractors, N1 cams and exhaust from a 2L and I am getting over 270whp@8800rpm from my 2.2L stroker version of this motor. Got heaps of nifty safety features as well, like stopping the car from going over a preset engine speed until the coolant temp sensor is above a certain temp, etc.

Can also diagnose and clear CEL codes + perform all of the Consult functions, such as turning off individual cylinders to work out which cylinder has a misfire, etc.

I will sort out a link to the software for you guys to trial shortly

MDeezy

iTrader: (27)

great work. subscribed.

throttlehappy46

UPDATE: Will be dyno tuning next weekend. Going to be running twin throttle bodies with a twin MAF setup, with the ECU only reading airflow from one maf, other maf as a dummy so that it has the same amount of airflow. The daughterboard needs to be programmed to have twice the K value although I will be playing with this on the dyno with the O2 sensors turned off to get the best AFR at idle via my PLX devices wideband

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Hmm. Just saw this, I don't wander in this forum very often. I had thought of doing something like this a couple years back but never followed through.

What software/hex editor are you/your developer using to decipher the bin file (screenshot looks like Bikisoft or is that only the programming interface)? I've seen some of the VQ bins from non North-American markets such as the Cefiro and I got one from a Russian guy at one point too, but IIRC they are differently addressed, with fewer tables than the US/Canadian Spec ECUs, not being OBD2, but it sounds like you've already found the addresses/ranges for the main fuel and timing tables?

If you can get an emulator setup to work on a VQ30 ECU that will be a major improvement over piggyback setups, and I suspect you could sell a good number of them. Personally I'm already working with/on something else that will give me way more functions and control than any stock ECU w/ emulator setup ever will, but I'm sure most won't want to take the route I am and would love to have this option.

throttlehappy46

Been a while between updates...

Got a basic dyno tune with the Twin throttle body manifold, new spark plugs, lukey panel airfilters, extractors, 3" exhaust and with the VCT system functioning(very basic activation so far) and it works well.

193.3Kw@wheels(around 265Hp@wheels) and a monster mid range torque curve. A friend of mine has an R33 GTS-T Sedan with 12psi boost, FMIC and 3" exhaust that got LESS power than me on the same dyno.

Still got to spend a little more time with the VQ35 ignition timing curves as the VCT system makes it hard to tune for best mean torque output. I could not believe how rich the VQ30 runs from the factory.


Fuel graph

Timing graph

Will be carrying out a VQ30 basic tune at the end of this month, will keep you all updated with the results.

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

So you got it to work? How?

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the update but please see post 18... and questions therein... especially, what VQ30 bin file are you working from... a North American OBD2 version or a non-NA non-OBD2 version?

Snypa

iTrader: (35)

check out this website. www.phatg20.net

throttlehappy46

Yes, it works though has a few issues I am working through at the moment. I think it has to do with electrical interference in the wiring loom, so going to check my earth shields again.

Using an American 95~96 spec manual ECU. Have another VQ35 which should be finished shortly which will use a Australian VQ30 auto ECU but powering a manual equipped car.

Yes, I am using Bikisoft which interfaces with its own daughterboard design. I am using a V3 board and the developer is going to be releasing a V4 board shortly which should improve things a lot. Including allowing for 125rpm increments over the stock average of 400rpm increments.

MorpheusZero

iTrader: (10)

Holy crap this is awesometown

Continue, I shall lurk

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

What he said.

Nealoc187

iTrader: (23)

please please please keep us updated on this because this is seriously the biggest news for 95-99 maximas in like 5 years.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Thanks for the answers. Now I have more questions..

1) If you're using the VQ30 ECU, how do you have VTC control? (or is that something you hardwired additionally and the Biki/daughter board controls on top of the ECU)

2) Do you have the ability to extend maps or reprogram axes (ie add columns, rows etc, to give more resolution or more importantly extend rev limit) or are you pretty much limited by what's already there? (does this tie to the V4 you mentioned)

3) Can you change the region where closed loop is active (ie the darker shaded region I presume?). Could be useful to allow boosted cars to tune in open loop under partial throttle with boost onset conditions...

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Cool maybe if you send your info to the biki people, they can make the product for us

throttlehappy46

1. VTC is setup via a PWM output from the Biki board itself, that is software controlled.



2. Rev limit increase is easy, just put the new rev limit into the global variables table. In this table, you can remove any speed cuts(some japanese cars cut out at 125mph), change the injector K value and injector dead time(IDT) When you change injector sizing or MAF(common sizes are pre-entered) the load tables and/or K value are also adjusted to compensate

The tuning maps in V3 remain a 16 x 16 table but you can adjust both the rpm points and the engine load points. Both of these axii can be adjusted independantly for fuel and ignition.

V4 is being targetted at increasing the tuning resolution much further by having multiple maps(there is only 3 maps in V3, V4 is expected to have around 16)

3. In the fuel maps, dark blue is close loop controlled. In the ignition maps, green is used for areas where the knock sensor/s are 'listened' to but I try to avoid using them as my tunes are hardly on the edge. However, if knock or any other engine fault is detected, the ECU will default back to the 'secondary' maps as per any original ECU and the 'CEL' will come on as per normal for factory safety/functionality. That is one thing I do not like about piggy-back units... if the ECU goes into limp mode, how do you know how the values are being affected when you have not been able to tune for them!
I normally turn off the O2 sensor completely while the car is on the dyno or using a wideband, then turn it back on for values within a certain range. Also, I found that they can happily take as lean as 15.1:1 AFR's without detonation under cruise conditions. Boosted conversions are quite easy, you can even copy in a known good fuel map from a SR20DET or other factory boosted Nissans, etc if you want a base fuel tune.

The other thing is, that Biki can trigger other external devices... even nitrous solenoids and then use Map 2 or Map 3 to have a Nitrous Map, which has more fuel added and adjusted ignition maps while the gas is on You can also setup the user input switches to require a master arming switch, then set a minimum TPS voltage for the gas to flow!

I always try to share my info with the Biki creator(Lucas) and he is working at the moment to get V4 up and running. Once V4 is out, I will copy my fuel/ignition maps into a V4 file and make sure everything is up to scratch before Lucas starts selling them. That is why I am not bothered by the few minor bugs that V3 is giving me at the moment.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

I figured.

Ah yes, global variables, K value... it's coming back to me now, I had forgotten a lot of the details about how the stock ECU parameters are set up. It's been years since I was doing all the research on this stuff.

I thought I remembered that's what the shaded areas were. Under light throttle/cruise VQ's can take even leaner than 15.1, depending on octane used, but I generally don't really run much leaner than 15-low 15's, to keep a bit of a margin and also for emissions purposes, for which running closer to 14.7 is ideal.

Nothing earth shattering there with the external device/nitrous control etc, as many devices/controllers/piggybacks will do that but it's good that it's included. Certainly adds to the overall value so you don't need to buy anything else. Speaking of which, what's the pricing on this system?

Well thanks for the info - keep up the good work, and please keep the board updated! I think many of us are very interested to see where this goes, it could be a major breakthrough for engine management options on the VQ ECU's, which until very recently have been pretty slim. Personally, I'm already in the middle of a fairly complex swap project using a standalone (for several different reasons) that gives me a ton of features that even something like the Biki daughterboard can't, as good as it is. However, it's a safe bet 99% of Maxima modders wouldn't choose that route, and for most a Biki-type solution will be a superb option. If I'd had something like this available 3 years ago I wouldn't have bothered going through the whole ordeal to get the Emanage Ultimate working optimally on these cars. But it would have taken me a lot more effort and time to get a daughter board up and running, (which I didn't want to expend at that point).

throttlehappy46

Pricing should be around the $450 mark for a V4 board once released.

I was looking at the JWT ECU's but I like to know that the tune is optimised to the individual engine + the extra features are good.

I was using a MoTec M800 ECU in my other Pulsar(similiar to a B13 Sentra) before I ended up swapping back to a Bikirom board. I did however use an S15 200SX SR20DET ECU with a Bikirom board so that I could have multiple coils and a newer spec computer which uses a faster processor. The Motec M800 ended up in my kit car.

jordandalley

Interesting stuff dude. Nice to see another Aussie on this forum. Keep up the good work. Would be nice to see a localised ECU solution, i'd definitely have a few guys from MDU interested.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

You cannot control VTCs correctly with a simple PWM controller and no feedback.
All you can do is fully advance or fully retard them because you have no feedback to tell you where the cams actually are.

HomerMAC

iTrader: (5)

wow very interesting stuff.. very indeed... SUBSCRIBED!!!

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Yeah I was going to go with the M800 but as much as I've always loved their ECU's I recently found something even more capable, and less costly.

But for $450 I think these would sell like hotcakes to the Maxima crowd here.


Good catch, I didn't really give it further thought or look at the wiring diagram posted, since I won't be using this product even if it becomes available. But yes, if the Biki doesn't read the cam sensor signals and have some sort of PID-type control logic then it'll be like VTEC (which I suppose is still better than fixed timing for people doing VQ35 swaps on A32/33 ECU's).

OP please confirm?

throttlehappy46

Actually, as I stated above I am having problems with the ignition system and I thought it was earth shielding but this may be the problem. The ignition map when trying to tune is never the same between dyno runs, which is what made me think it was a shielding problem and is why the ignition graph is not the smoothest and retarded in a few spots. I was going to pull the loom apart tomorrow so this should save me a days work

However, the board is capable of inputting a ADC signal, then plot the cam angle to various voltages returned via the cam angle sensor depending on position... then offset them against the crank angle sensor position to calculate advance/retard. Need to setup a new 3D map for that so probably easier if I attempt that once V4 is released. It appears to work well in its current guise though and it is no exactly lacking for power even if the VTC was turned off completely.

jordandalley

What gains are you making from this?

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Cam sensor voltage is not a function of position.

You may find some useful info in this thread.
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=357173

throttlehappy46

Financially, nothing really. I like doing this stuff in my spare time which is one reason it has taken so long. It also solves a few problems with the Australian Design Rules(ADR's) with engine conversions requiring a factory ECU for exhaust emissions compliance. Aftermarket computers are too easy to retune after the emissions test has been completed, that it is near impossible to have one legally certified in NSW any more. Once I show the highway patrol police I have a factory fitted ECU in the factory position, with no 'sensor benders' in the wiring loom between the ECU and the engine, they let me drive away without a hassle. Even my twin turbo LS1 V8 ute(pickup version of the 2004 Pontiac GTO) is using a stock computer with an emission compliant EFI-Live tune without an issue with the police.

Once the VQ30 base tune is mapped out completely, it will be included in the 'base tunes' in the Bikisoft software.

Thanks for the help. I realised late last night that it would be a cam angle position sensor not a TPS style sensor. Of course, I should be able to plot a nice 3D graph to get it working when required. If not, an ON/OFF arrangement may be a compromise until I find a more suitable solution.

jordandalley

Twin turbo LS1??? Damn.. that'd have some horse. Was that *the* twin turbo LS1 that makes over 1000 hp? I think I remember seeing a video of one somewhere on a dyno. It was red. Is that yours? Coz damn.... I think my Supercharged Maxima has too much power let alone THAT.

I don't think QLD is as harsh on their laws with things like that, though I could be wrong. I just do it anyway. lol.

In gains, I was meaning HP gains.

So if you're all into your Holden V8's, then why the VQ3*DE? It's not often you see someone getting into Japs *and* Aussie cars. Quite cool that you can be that diverse.