DBear

I'm trying to fix an oil leak in one of the rear spark plug tubes, so I'm replacing the tube grommets, which also means replacing the valve cover gaskets. Two questions:

1. The grommets I bought (from Kragen) aren't exactly like the ones that came off. The stock grommets are flat on the bottom, whereas the new ones have flanges on both sides (top and bottom). It doesn't look like the flanges fit into anything, I'd guess they're just there to allow the grommet to flex. Is there a right way and a wrong way to put them in?

2. The FSM says to put liquid gasket sealant around the valve cover. But it doesn't seem to mention a rubber gasket (although it doesn't really discuss this very well). The gasket kit I bought has a rubber gasket, just like the one that was already on the car. There was no trace of liquid gasket material on the cover when I took it off. Do I have to put liquid gasket on if I use the rubber gasket? Seems like the liquid stuff is unnecessary, and would just go all over the place...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The FSM assumes you have a basic knowledge of how things go and doesn't spell everything out step by step all the time. This is why i think the haynes manual is a better option for the inexperienced (not a knock on you at all). Anyway, both the rubber gasket and the RTV sealant are necessary. If you put just the gasket without the sealant, it will leak at these points.



Apply RTV sealant between the rubber gasket and the head/cam bearing cap at those points.

As for the spark plug tube seals, i'd have to see them to know what you mean.

DBear

Do I just put sealant at the points you circled, or are you saying those are the points that will leak if I don't seal around the entire cover?

Part 13276 in the drawing is the oil tube grommet. It fits into the valve cover, and snugs down around the spark plug tube when you put the valve cover back on.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Put sealent at those points.
I knew which part you were referring to. You were describing the difference between the ones you have and the OEM part and i couldn't quite visualize it.

DBear

Ahh, OK. The manual does show sealant at just those points, but I assumed they meant "start here" or something like that. It makes a lot more sense now--sealant all the way around would make a big mess. Thanks.

I'm going to pick up a few Nissan grommets, to make sure I've got the right ones. That should eliminate the "which way is up" question.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Nissan acutally used 2 different types of valve cover o rings. One type made by NGK and another type by some other brand. This happened to me when I replaced mine last winter. Don't be suprised if the ones you get are different from the ones you take out... they will work.

eturnl

I REALLY REALLY WANT THIS APPLICATION!! WHERE CAN I GET IT FROM! Does it have ALL the factory part numbers?!


Here are some photo's of the Oil seal ring: Is this what you have:

cam_honestiam

iTrader: (2)

I need to perform this maintenance as well. Can someone who has done this before please elaborate a little bit? I am not following the above conversation, although I am not a novice at car repair. I have oil on the threads of my rear, leftmost spark plug. Is this what I need to fix that?

eturnl

No buddy, i think this just helps seal the valve/rocker cover in conjunction with the primary gasket. If you have oil on your threads (assuming you've taken out the plug.) then the oil is coming from your combustion chamber. Which is not good.

I hope that kinda helps.

FishyMan

can u guys take real pictures if u gusy do iot.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

I have done this before and yes, the spark plug tube o rings are what you need to replace.

Anything else?

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

This is not true. These seals are for the spark plug tubes. When they start to go bad, oil leaks down the tube and onto the spark plug which gets on the the threads of the spark plug as you take it out. If oil was coming from the combustion chamber due to bad piston rings, he would be burning oil. No way could oil survive the combustion and actually work against gravity and work its way up the threads of the spark plug into the tube area. Its when an engine is burning massive amounts of oil that the electrode of the spark plug becomes oil fouled.

cam_honestiam

iTrader: (2)

Excellent reply. Thanks for the info.

I'll do a write-up with pictures when I perform this maintenance.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

No problem.

Flava_24/7

iTrader: (46)

Very true, and its actually quite common for those seals to go bad.

eturnl

First of all, yes, in a sense, i am incorrect. My answer was based upon that the assumption the oil is ONLY present on the plug. cam_honestiam did not provide any other information. Just to clarify the miscommunication:
When someone comes and tells you i have oil on my sparkplug threads. The obvioius answer to that symptom is bad piston rings.
I've worked on a dodge engine with bad rings yet there was no obvious evidence of burning oil. Yet the spark plug looked like this:


So NO, you don't have to have massive amounts of oil in the combustion chamber to have this problem. And NO, there is no working against gravity in a combustion chamber, (unless the engine is off, which is silly to even mention) gravity is overcome by many other forces when the engine is running.

Further inspection of the spark plug chamber should have clued cam_honestiam that the problem is more likely to be from the oil seal gasket, therefore the oil on the spark plug thread is from that. Unless of course there is oil around the electrode. In that case there can be two problems.

Moral of this post: We need to more provide detailed information about problems when wanting help with trouble shooting. "Oil on my spark plug threads" is a very vague statement. Assumptions are required to answer a statement like that. So in another sense, i was not incorrect.

Yes, granted, i could have just asked for more specifics first. But i didn't. The point is, even you may be incorrect about the oil seal. :-)
Just had to add my 2 pennies.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

This is completely false. Explain to me how oil getting past the piston rings can survive the combustion, completely avoid the electrode and then some how creep up throught the spark plug hole in the head in order to get on the threads?

If you have piston rings that have gone bad enough to foul a spark plug, you are burning oil, no way around it, regardless of your "experience" with Dodge engines. And, spark plugs can look like the one in your picture by just burning extremely rich due to some bad O2 sensors. In this case oil is not even a factor.

So what are you saying here? That the oil that has gotten past the piston rings is forced up through the spark plug threads on the head during the compression stroke?? If thats the case the VQ egine must have some the worst engineering ever. You would be having a horrible compression measure from day one of the engine rolling off the line.

So now your sloppy assessment is his fault? You're back tracking here. He simply wanted comfirmation that his problem was the spark plug tube o rings, which it is, and he stated that he had oil on the treads. You're the one that brought in all this oil in the combustion chamber nonsense:

The VQ engine is no crap engine. It would take A LOT of miles or some major modifications to take the piston rings out on this engine.

So, I look at it this way, this guy can replace his spark plug o rings and solve his problem. OR, he can stirp down the block and replace the piston rings... I wonder which one he's gonna do?

Maxi98se

iTrader: (6)

I need to do this ive been putting it off for 2-3 weeks now since i've discovered oil in the tube. Im gonna do it once I see that write-up

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

No rush at all. I drove for two years after discovering oil in one of my tubes. When I finally got in there during my mevi install, the leaking was occuring on 3 tubes. I replaced the o rings, and after about 6 months, I removed my spark plugs to check them out and they were all 100% oil free.

eturnl

You don't appear to be very sharp bro. But it's ok, its not your fault. I'm going to give you the benefit of the doubt b/c It's easy to miscommunicate in writing; and that seems to be what is happening. I don't want to waste too much time trying to explain myself again... because either im not getting my point across, or you just don't get my point.
Im only stating my reasoning, so this will probably be my last reply in this debate.

Like i said, misunderstanding. Once again, my reply to the guy was based upon a couple of assumptions (Which was why i started my initial post with, "I THINK") The assumption were: (no offense to him)
1. He was vague, so he either wasn't clear, or he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Based off his initial post, I chose the latter. Therefore:
2. When he said I have oil on my threads, I didn't assume he meant that literally. I assumed he meant like the one in my pic. Which is my fault, BUT that was the assumption i made. Why? Because to ME, it would have been very strange to see oil on ONLY the threads, so i assumed he would have probably mentioned that, and therefore, it should have been obvious to check the spark plug chamber for oil and mention that as well.
Granted, initially, the post was regarding the oil seal, so maybe i could have assumed he did know what he was talking about. But as a practicing engineer and consultant, its a lot easier, and more natural, for me to assume people don't know what they're talking about.

When I said there was no obvious evidence of oil burning on the dodge engine. That meant there was no OBVIOUS EVIDENCE. Meaning it wasn't noticeable, not that it wasn't occurring.

I highly doubt that, but you may be right. To me, that's OIL. There is a big difference between an Oil fouled plug and a Carbon fouled plug due to a rich mixture.

No that's not what i'm saying. And i'm not going to explain this. Sorry.
BTW, during the intake stroke, the piston is moving AWAY from the plug.
(Don't make any assumptions with what i just said, i'm only clarifying what happens during the intake stroke)


His fault?? What?
You think my assessment was sloppy? Ok.
You only think i'm back tracking because you're not understanding. Or i just wasn't clear.
Upon reading his initial post, I assumed he was asking a question about a confusing thread. YOU assumed he was confirming.

Agreed

Not necessarily, an overheating engine can quickly ruin piston rings. (I'm speaking in general here, i'm not talking about his car)


No comment.

Peace.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Now now children...play nice....

cam_honestiam

iTrader: (2)

To i30ds:

Thanks for the input. I think you are a sharp bro, and your comments were helpful.

To eturnl:

You have some helpful comments too; it's just that they don't help ME, since they don't pertain to my particular set of circumstances. It seems that most everyone else understood what I was being so vague about; that I had oil on the THREADS of the spark plug, NOT the electrode, ceramic, or any other part of the spark plug...the plug was not fouled, as I was firing on all pistons before and after replacement. However, your above assumption

"If you have oil on your threads (assuming you've taken out the plug.) then the oil is coming from your combustion chamber. Which is not good."

is correct. I did (go figure) have to take out the plug to see oil on the threads, but I don't think it's coming from the combustion chamber. Oh wait, I used the word "think"...

and this:

"1. He was vague, so he either wasn't clear, or he probably didn't know what he was talking about. Based off his initial post, I chose the latter."

I was vague, you are right...because I made an assumption--that someone who had faced similar symptoms would understand (without my needing to write up a recipe for chocolate chip cookies) and would respond with helpful advice speaking from experience. Thanks, i30ds.

MaximaSE96

iTrader: (8)

Phatg20.net has teh FAST program i believe

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

I don't appear sharp? You just keep making fool out of yourself. You're the one that keeps fighting a battle you lost. Nobody is following your suggestions here. This guy has a problem which is RELEVANT to this thread. You brought in a bunch of garbage that does not help anyone, and you keep doing so. Normally, when someone makes an erroneous post like you did, I just ignore it to avoid crap like this, BUT I did not want this guy getting steered down the WRONG path that you might send him down.

You only stated "I think" to the function of the o rings, which is obvious to everyone here (except you) and yet with definite confidence you stated that if you have oil on the threads, then the oil is coming from the combustion chamber. Which is wrong... no way around it. You never said anything about an oil fouled spark plug... nobody said anything about an oil fouled spark plug.

He was vague? I don't think so. You're vague. I did NOT have a problem understanding what he was talking about. His post was right on target with the relevancy of this thread. You're the one who claimed that if you have oil on the threads, with intending that means its on the whole spark plug as well, with out mentioning so, that the oil is coming from the combustion chamber. THAT is what vague is.

You assumed wrong. That's why your post is wrong. What did you think he meant... that he had oil on his threads figuratively? When someone says they have oil on the threads it means just that... the threads. Not other parts of the plug. To you oil on only the threads is strange, but its not to everybody else here because WE ARE ALL ON THE SAME PAGE... everybody but you. You're the one that got lost in a simple thread. So, you're either not very bright, or you did not read the entire thread before posting your irrelevant and incorrect post. I think its funny that you find it a lot easier and natural to assume people don't know what they are talking about when you are the only one that does not know what he is talking about.

I may be right. Someone would have to touch and smell that thing to know if it was oil. The point is that posting a pic like that helps no one here... I don't even know why you would post it.

If you won't explain it then I will assume you CAN'T explain it. Its obvious I was referring to the compression stroke when I said intake stroke... thank you for your unnecessary clarification.

Let's see... he made a relevant question. You gave an irrelevant answer. You made the assumption that he did not know what he was talking about when he did and you did not know what you were talking about. You are the one that got confused and thought that "oil on the threads" means the entire plug. I'd say that's pretty damn sloppy. And you are right about one thing, I don't understand... I don't understand your thinking on how oil on the threads means the entire plug.

Try not to get lost again. You are pretty good at at. I assumed he was wanting confirmation (which he was... anybody with half a brain can see that by reading his post)... there is a big difference.

Well we are talking about his car... thats the point of this... not for you to show case your extraordinary automotive knowledge... Of course anything is possible on a quality engine that has had no maintenance. It seems like this guy has maintained his ride so unless he has like 300K or is running some serious boost or nitrous, only an idiot would actually think that this guy has oil in his combustion chamber.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

No problem man. Don't hesitate to ask more questions. There are several experienced guys, including myself, that have done this before. So we can definately give you some more pointers. I know this thread has gotten polluted so you might want to start a new one or use PM.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Yeah it does. You have to down load the discs and then download the trial version of alcohol 120 in order to install the down loaded disks on your computer. After that, you can use the program to get part numbers and then put those part numbers into whole saler websites, like pinncle nissan or everything nissan, to get a price on the part.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

I didn't have to use the alcohol program to install FAST.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Really?? I did. The install instructions said to do it so I did it... I did'nt even try to install it without alcohol 120. Oh well, one less step I guess.

eturnl

touche.
sorry i couldn't help.

Btw, i don't know why i said this:
"If you have oil on your threads (assuming you've taken out the plug.) then the oil is coming from your combustion chamber. Which is not good."
That's pretty stupid... I'm trying to remember what i was thinking.... hmmm

hope no one took any offense, i was just making a point.

Peace!

eturnl

I30ds: I can see you get very defensive. To the point where you become stubborn and make stupid irrational comments.

You're just not following man...

Try this: Next week, go back and thoroughly read this entire thread after you've cleared your head. Maybe then you will understand what i was talking about.

i30ds

iTrader: (8)

Your're done here dude... getting confrontational with and insulting a mod...

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The ban was a bit harsh.

FishyMan

Are there any updates and pictures? I want to do this as well.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

I feel that was uncalled for. Both of you were right, and honestly I agree with him, the OP was vague and didn't clarify whether he ALSO had oil on the electrode, or oil on the ceramic. All of the technical points he made against you were correct, and I thought he was very corteous in defending himself.

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

so is there a special method of removing the oil tube gromet from the valve cover? i asked this before and got "force it out", but it just tears.

FishyMan

Based on the engine deisgn. Is it possible to do the back? of the V?

It seems the frong is accessible, but the rear is tough.

solow

i got to do that to mine this weekend

sparky1562

The back is a pain. You have to take the manifold off to get the valve cover off. Like I30ds said, it won't hurt anything to drive it like that, but it makes a mess when changing the plugs, and you will get some oil in the cylinder when you remove the plug. Not enough to foul the plug IMO.

Man this is an old mean thread...

maxim82

iTrader: (2)

checked on phatg20.net and all i found was the service manuals

BLACKonBLACK98

iTrader: (42)

they recently did site maintanence and now its not there anymore. i didn't get it either.