NetFurie

Hey Guys. This kind of a strange one. For the last year, whenever it would rain, my cell would come on and inform me that my VSS needed attention. I finally got around to replacing it about 2 weeks ago. Then it rained, and the cell came back.
Is there anything besides the sensor itself that could be tripping this code?
Thanks,
Gavin

njmodi

iTrader: (4)

Thats a strange problem

I don't have much to help you with, but here is a bump to the top.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

i have had that blasted cel for years. i think they said something about my speedometer being off? i dont know if that is throwing the cel or a cause of the VSS. either way i have been driving the max like this for a long time.

haynes repair manual says:

vehicle speed sensor is a permanent magnet generator mounted on the transaxle case. it produces an AC voltage sine wave, the frequency of which is proportional to vehical speed.

the vehicle speed sensor signal also drives the speedometer on the instrument panel. a defective vehicle speed sensor can cause various driveability and transmission problems (not sure i have had any due to this ?)

NetFurie

Interesting. My speedometer does not seem to be affected, nor does the cruise control though I rarely use it.
The only other thing i can think of is maybe the ground for the sensor is corroded or otherwise not making a good connection. I'm pretty sure I saw two wires leaving the sensor so I don't think it grounds directly on the transaxle; but I'll see if i can follow wires.

NetFurie

I give up... anyone know where this thing gets grounded?

imported_madd_maxx

I ran into the same thing that you ran into two months ago. It started as knock sensor, CEL and vehichle speed sensor CEL. I would reset and it would come back, sometimes it would come back if would get damp out. I couldn't figure it out. I did the whole fuel injection cleaner and tighten gas cap thing and it still didn't work. Just like you I scoured the internet for hours looking for a solution. I ended up replacing my knock sensor, which I got off ebay for $99.00, much cheaper than the dealer. I replaced that and it appreared to solve all CEL's for a week and again the darn CEL came back.

I was at wits end so I made an appointment to get the vehicle sensor replaced. The VSS is behind the spedometer. The part I believe is only $25.00. So I got that replaced. The dealer does check on all codes and after about $120.00 I'm happy and on my way. Not quite yet...

Three days later I'm still throwing the VSS code, but no knock sensor. I do some more research and I forget where I read it but someone said if your cruise control is working intermitently it could be the spedo. I test it and lo-and-behold it's working sometimes. By not I'm very pi$$ed. I took so much time off from work and mostly frustration. So I called the dealer and they said bring it in. So again I drop off the car and I wait 2 hours for the diagnostics. After 2 hours the tech. tells me the culrpit is spedometer. I say what? It's working fine. They said the signal to it should be reading 5 milivolts and it's only reading 1.5 or something like that. I say how much and they say not cheap.

I've got 110K on the car so I then contemplate weather to live with the CEL or not. I finally decide that my car runs perfect and it's been paid off for a while so I decide to fix the spedo. The catch was they had to take my speedo out and overnight it to NIssan to have a new one matched with the Odo. mileage. So they tell me I have to come back the next day. They did give me a rental car, which turned out to be a gas guzzling Dodge V8 truck. WTF? I ended up paying $15 alone to top it off when I brought it back the next day, and I took the $15.00 in insurance so the darn rental wasn't free at all.

The next day I picked up my car and the dealer assured me that it was fixed. The cool thing was they were able to credit a lot of my serice costs from the Speed Sensor work to to my Spedo because they were related. I left the dealership with a sick feeling that things weren't fixed, but after forking over about $350.00 in hard earned cash thing have been perfect for almost 2 months now. In the end I'm glad I spent the money. It would have been hard selling the car in the future with a CEL on. Beside my 97 SE Auto should be good for at least another 100K. I bought it used with 19K on it in late 2000 and I've been running Mobil one and redline tranny fluid and it's been flawless. So far only maintenance has be the Knock sensor, SS, Spedo, belts, one rear caliper, leaky radiator. I would say that's pretty good for 110K.

I hope this help your quest to fixing your CEL problem. Please email me or leave me your email if you might need further help.

njmodi

iTrader: (4)

Now thats what I call an AWESOME first post. Welcome to the ORG.

cliffs notes: If you have the VSS code, the you've replaced the VSS, then it's likely a bad speedo headunit.

imported_madd_maxx

njmodi, thanks for the welcome. I was surprised that someone replied so quickly. About 3 years ago I registered with Maxima.org, but I really didn't post. I think my account was deleted due to inactivity? Don't know? Anywho, I'm usally not one to post anything on the internet, but after reading this post I had to reply, because I know how much trouble/headache I went through trying to fix my CEL codes.

I find that Maxima.org forums, and the google/internet to be invaluable for day to day research and trouble shooting. I can't count how many times I've looked up an issue I have with some thing not quite working right and it's always some post or forum that gives me the answer or at the very least helps in the right direction.

This is ever so invaluable to me since I work in I.T. Most of the time google is my best friend when I can't figure out some system issue. Most often tech support or consultant's aren't much help. Regarding this forum I figured it was time to give something back to the community that posted so much regarding my Maxima questions. Just think if everyone looked for answers but didn't post any suggestion or solutions? This forum and the internet wouldn't the wealth of knowledge we have just by typing a few strings hitting enter and vvuola there's the answer.

I also know that Maxima.org doesn't run for free meaning it takes a lot of time, dedication and believe it or not some money to host it. That is why I've decided to make a donation as soon as I finish this post. I hope that people that haven't made a donation will be inclinded to do so after reading my post.

If you use this post and can afford to trick out your Maxima you can afford to donate $20.00!

I hope I haven't pi$$ed anyone off by going off on a tangent.

I'm honored to be part of Maxima.org.

Go Maxima's!!!!!!!!

njmodi

iTrader: (4)

The local guys are getting together for a BBQ this weekend - Check the Regional Forums (Upper midwest). I'm hoping to be there.. I haven't committed yet!

NetFurie

Thanks for the excellent posts, guys!

It's the whole water element that throws me. If I don't reset the ECU, the cel will go away within 2 weeks; barring rain. Since the sensor sits so low in the car I figured water had to be splashing on that or the harness. But the harness came with the new sensor so I've ruled out both. I suppose moisture could be leaking in somewhere near the speedo (?)...
Anyway, I guess I'll have to make the same decision as you, madd_maxx. Live with the light or spend a bunch of money.
Thanks again.

imported_madd_maxx

I not a genius, but since you already replaced the VSS and the CEL comes on when it rains or damp out. I think it's your Spedo. I believe moisture levels in the air are changing the voltage between the speedo and the VSS just enough to set off the CEL, I believe you said your cruise control is working fine. The dealer told me that if I didn't do anything the worst that could happen is my spedo could stop working. If I wasn't planning on keeping my car so long I probably would have left it.

In a nutshell the CEL is coming on because you voltage to the speedo is low or fluctuating. It's easier said than done to just ingnore a CEL, because it's a pychological thing. IMHO I think cars now a days have some may sensors because of emissions and what not they can be so dang tempermental.

If you need more help just give a shout out.

Ceasars Chariot

iTrader: (16)

madd great post, that must be what is wrong with mine, i recall the dealership saying something about the speedo. but i have never done anything about it. my crusie control works sometimes and sometimes it doesnt.

imported_madd_maxx

Cease, it seems like you have the exact systems my 97 SE had. If you can live with out the cruise, then by all means don't fix it. Paying for a new speedo with install is about $350. Some of the cost is shipping overnight and back again. I suppose if you were find one out of a salvage place you could replace it yourself if you're handy, but then if the ODO isn't close you might have indicate it on your title. I think the digital ODO's started in '99? I'm thinking a digital is going to be more expensive, I could be wrong. I don't know why Nissan insists on sending the old one back. They should just take the dealers word for it on the ODO. reading that way they could turn it around faster.

Hard to believe that a simple voltage irregularity could cause so much trouble. The only way I could truely tell my ODO, was replaced was the RED needle was just a bit brighter that the others. It makes sense, after being in the sun for several years things are bound to fade. I suppose it would be good way to check for tampering or changing of ODO. if one is looking into buying a used Max and the mileage is questionable?

I really think that Nissan dropped the ball on the instrument cluster the 4th Gen SE's were the best with that white guage and red needles that reversed out at night. I think the new Maxima's are silver of some metalic color. That white/black reversal makes so much sense. Think about it, we don't write on black paper with white pen's? Then why are most instrument cluster black with white lettering.

Maybe I'm just nostalgic

BigLou93SE

iTrader: (10)

Yea, it was pretty good, except the V.S.S. isn't behind the speedo, it is on the tranny housing. Unless it's different for autos....
I have that damn V.S.S. code too.

njmodi

iTrader: (4)

Actually, I believe there is another piece that is behind the cluster (it may not be called the VSS though) - it might only be for autos but I'm too lazy to look in my FSM right now

imported_madd_maxx

You could be right, I thought I heard the tech say it connects somewhere behind the spedo. assembly. There's the firewall/cover so I couldn't even see the instrument cluster from behind. I'm not a technical expert. If you find out, could you elaborate. I know I found some posts/info. on the wire and the color coding once, but it was way more than I wanted to get into. I'll do mechanical, but most electrical I leave to the experts, or so called experts at the Nissan Dealership.

hasei

iTrader: (5)

I went through the same dilenma about three years ago, except for the CEL kept turning on regardless of the weather. After dealing with this for about two years spending a lot of money and time, the solution to my problem was really simple - to re-tighten all the screws behind speedo. Before I realized this I even tried to replace a wire between VSS and ECU. I felt like an idiot then but I haven't seen a 0104 code ever since.

If you haven't tried, pull out the speedo, re-tighten the screw and see if the code comes back. If this doesn't fix your problem, then I guess the problem is a little more serious. I saw a post here by a member who replaced an entire gauge cluster to fix the issue.

imported_madd_maxx

Now I remember! I read exactly what you did from someone else when I googled before I took my car into the dealer. Someone had similar results, his came back after a few weeks after they retightened several different times. I trying the tightening of the speedo is definitly worth a try. Like you said if this doesn't work you might have bigger problems like having to replace spedo.

If you could close by elaborating on the process of tightening the spedo. I think it could be wrap for this post. I think a lot of other forum members will find the info on this post invaluable!

95MaxSE_White

Maybe this info may save some in unnecessarily replacing the speedo head. The speedo head contains circuitry which converts the ac signal of the VSS to a 0-10 Volt square wave and then routes it to the ECU. If your speedometor works, but your getting 0104, the ECU is not getting the square wave signal.

1995 Maxima 0104 VSS, DTC0504 A/T Control
Subject: 1995 Maxima DTC0504 A/T Control


Over the past year, I have had an intermittent CEL 0104 (vehicle speed
sensor), along with 0504 (a/t control) and 0304 (knock sensor). The
speed sensor checked out, plus my speedometer was functional. My guess
was that the signal path from the speedo head to the ECM was
intermittent. I was able to borrow a portable o-scope and monitor pin
29 (vehicle speed sensor) of the ECM. The signal during normal
operation was a 0-10V square wave where the freq would vary with
vehicle speed. A few times the signal would be stuck at 10V or 0V.
When this would happen, the CEL would trigger. I banged on the dash
near the speedometer and the square wave returned. I later took the
dash apart and cleaned the connections to the speedo head with contact
cleaner. I continued to monitor pin 29 and for about a month now the
signal has behaved normally and no CEL.

A few days ago I checked for non-CEL DTC's. I had both 0504 and 0304.
The FSM continutity test of the 5 wires to/from the ECM and A/T control
unit passed. The short to ground test also passed. The FSM is vague
on any more detail on the specific function of these 5 signal lines, so
although I could monitor them, I'm not sure what to look for.

I've also been monitoring pin 64 (knock sensor), it's voltage varies
from 2V to 3.3V. Is this normal operation for this sensor? I was
expecting the voltage to increase if I accelerated hard, but have not
yet noticed a consistent pattern.

Part of my impetus for checking for DTC's was that I noticed a slight
hard shift from 1st to 2nd.

Appreciate any helpful thoughts anyone might have.

I use premium gas, usually Shell 93. 159K miles. Maxima SE.

95MaxSE_White

Addendum. If you don't have a scope, you can also monitor pin 29 of the ECM with a Volt meter. Select DC measurement and select the range above 12V. The voltage will be ~5V while moving and will either be ~0V or ~10V when stopped. 0 or 10V when moving indicates a bad connection between the speedo head and pin 29.

agalinski

Well, I'm getting both 0104 and 0504 every once in a while and it's getting more frequent (these codes always appear together) - speedometer, odometer and cruise control all temporarily stop working. If the cruise is on when it fails, then the CEL/SES light comes on. Otherwise, it usually stays off and I just lose function for a while (typically anywhere between 2 to 10 miles).

Based on the advice in this thread, sounds like it's best to start by checking screws on the back of the instrument cluster. Any advice or photos on how to pull the instrument cluster? I see 2 screws in the top... Take out these screws and pull??? Any other fasteners???

Once I have access to the back of the cluster, is it obvious what to tighten???

1997 Nissan Maxima 175,000 miles.

I hope this thread isn't dead... Thank you!

95MaxSE_White

agalinksi,

If you're loosing speedometer function as well, I suspect your vehicle speed sensor is failing, or there is an intermittent connection between your speed sensor and the cluster. In my specific case, my speedometor was always working, yet I would get 0104 and 0504 and occasionally my cruise control would disengage.

Some additional info on the cluster. Sorry I do not have pictures. The instrument cluster contains a flexible printed circuit. If I remember correctly, there are 2 to 4 connectors that plug into the cluster and connect to this flexible printed circuit. The connections are prone to oxidation and intermittent connectivity. It is possible to clean the contacts and eliminate the problem for a period of time... the contacts will oxidize again eventually. There are also screws that (again if I remember correctly) make connections from the flex circuit to the cluster. These screws are on the back of the cluster. You should also clean those as well.

Dan_E_Boi84

iTrader: (3)

Your sensor doesn't ground anywhere...just 2 wires going straight to the Cluster....then the cluster feeds the ECU and the transmission computer the voltage. It sounds like the Cluster is going bad. Many have had this problem and the cluster usually fixes it. But... the cheapest thing and easiest thing to do is the speedo sensor. You can spend 20-40 bucks buying it brandnew and instal it yourself. It's real easy. Kind of a Plug And Play deal. Then...the cluster is the next cheapest thing to do...one from any Max will work as long as you don't use a 99. If you use one with mileage close to yours you won't worry about any legal issues with it. Then... if you STILL have the problem...Then it's your ECU... this is rare... (But I think mine has this problem.... I've done changed the sensor and changed the Cluster momentarily for diag...and It still didn't get rid of my problem{My speedo bounces up and down}. I've got a code P0500) I know the ECU can be swapped between years but I can't remember what years interchange. GOOD LUCK!!!!

Ricanprez1

iTrader: (2)

My speedo just took a crap today.It is not working at all. I also have code P0500, I just changed my knock sensor like a week or 2 ago. I might open up the cluster tomorrow and try to tighten some screws like you guys mentioned. I will update you guys on the situation.