Finally took the intake off... and I couldn't be happier!
06-29-2004, 03:24 PM
#43
Guest
Posts: n/a
ummmmmmmmm, no, I think it's like this:
"maybe people that think the aftermarket set up is better are the ones with no brains"
people, face it! - intake does nothing. If anything, it causes severe loss of power in low-end, something one is not able to "make up” for in the long run when the intake “kicks in" (which "supposedly" happens in high-end :blah: :blah: )
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, intakes are worthless piles of ****. They do more harm to your engine in the long run. Many here won't admit this because they're stuck in the "denial" stage, being 16, 17, 18, or 19 years old, modifying their cars, transforming intakes into “performance” because "it's the thing to do".
In the end, companies out there make intakes so that a mostly misinformed crowd like the org will buy them (no offense, but that's what is looks like). Majority of the people here are young and either don't know or don't grasp the "realm" of intakes.
If you bought an intake because you like the growl it gives - that I understand. If you bought the intake because it dresses up your engine bay - that I understand. But if you bought it because you expected hp gain, then YOU are a bigger joke than the intake itself.
The "intake phenomena" is widespread. The truth is that it attracted many youngsters in contemporary society simply because it claims to give cheap hp, and we all want that. But in reality it does no such thing in NA vehicles. I do understand, however, that a heavily boosted vehicle MAY be in need of an intake. That's because FI may obviously require not only more air, but faster delivery of it. However, I know that even heavily boosted vehicles can do without it. There are 1000+ hp toyota supras with stock intake airboxes, showing no dyno gains whatsoever with aftermarket intakes. With FI though, it also depends on the amount of boost, the motor, etc.
Lastly, I have a little story to share with you all just to illustrate how biased this world is. I want to a drag strip last fall. The lines were long and literally hundreds of cars lined up, with an average wait time for a run of approx. 1.5 hours (hence I only got to run twice). Anyway, while waiting, an argument suddenly erupted. People began arguing with one another. At first, I did not know what all the fuss was about, but I soon found out.
While many individuals turn their cars off when in line to let their engines and intakes cool off, others are convinced that this is complete nonsense. Literally, this was the topic discussed all throughout the day at the track and people have gotten into fights (yes, some physical) over this (I know, stupid thing to fight over). Honest to God, 50% of people on the race track that day thought that letting your engine cool off helps, while the other 50% believed otherwise. Actually, those that didn’t think it helps had the better take on it because no proven gains were noticeable whatsoever with drivers who thought that doing so helps. Oh and it was pretty cold out too already, somewhere in the mid 50’s that night.
My take on this is also that turning off your NA car does not help its performance. Many have argued just the opposite – that when the car is fully warmed up and hot, that’s when it performs best. I know for sure that with boosted vehicles it’s an entirely different story because many people who “ice” turbos or superchargers beforehand put up much better numbers. And for obvious reasons, cars with FI do perform better when intercooled (whatever the way).
"maybe people that think the aftermarket set up is better are the ones with no brains"
people, face it! - intake does nothing. If anything, it causes severe loss of power in low-end, something one is not able to "make up” for in the long run when the intake “kicks in" (which "supposedly" happens in high-end :blah: :blah: )
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, intakes are worthless piles of ****. They do more harm to your engine in the long run. Many here won't admit this because they're stuck in the "denial" stage, being 16, 17, 18, or 19 years old, modifying their cars, transforming intakes into “performance” because "it's the thing to do".
In the end, companies out there make intakes so that a mostly misinformed crowd like the org will buy them (no offense, but that's what is looks like). Majority of the people here are young and either don't know or don't grasp the "realm" of intakes.
If you bought an intake because you like the growl it gives - that I understand. If you bought the intake because it dresses up your engine bay - that I understand. But if you bought it because you expected hp gain, then YOU are a bigger joke than the intake itself.
The "intake phenomena" is widespread. The truth is that it attracted many youngsters in contemporary society simply because it claims to give cheap hp, and we all want that. But in reality it does no such thing in NA vehicles. I do understand, however, that a heavily boosted vehicle MAY be in need of an intake. That's because FI may obviously require not only more air, but faster delivery of it. However, I know that even heavily boosted vehicles can do without it. There are 1000+ hp toyota supras with stock intake airboxes, showing no dyno gains whatsoever with aftermarket intakes. With FI though, it also depends on the amount of boost, the motor, etc.
Lastly, I have a little story to share with you all just to illustrate how biased this world is. I want to a drag strip last fall. The lines were long and literally hundreds of cars lined up, with an average wait time for a run of approx. 1.5 hours (hence I only got to run twice). Anyway, while waiting, an argument suddenly erupted. People began arguing with one another. At first, I did not know what all the fuss was about, but I soon found out.
While many individuals turn their cars off when in line to let their engines and intakes cool off, others are convinced that this is complete nonsense. Literally, this was the topic discussed all throughout the day at the track and people have gotten into fights (yes, some physical) over this (I know, stupid thing to fight over). Honest to God, 50% of people on the race track that day thought that letting your engine cool off helps, while the other 50% believed otherwise. Actually, those that didn’t think it helps had the better take on it because no proven gains were noticeable whatsoever with drivers who thought that doing so helps. Oh and it was pretty cold out too already, somewhere in the mid 50’s that night.
My take on this is also that turning off your NA car does not help its performance. Many have argued just the opposite – that when the car is fully warmed up and hot, that’s when it performs best. I know for sure that with boosted vehicles it’s an entirely different story because many people who “ice” turbos or superchargers beforehand put up much better numbers. And for obvious reasons, cars with FI do perform better when intercooled (whatever the way).
06-29-2004, 03:48 PM
#50
Guest
Posts: n/a
I respect your opinion, as I'm sure you respect mine - because we both don't have the facts to support this. I will think one way, you will think another.
In any case, it appears as though I have a slightly better stance here on this all. Why? Let me put it this way:
[Someone DID NOT spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake doesn't actually improve performance ------- typical reaction: hmmmmmmmm, bummer]
[Someone DID spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake DOES actually improve performance -------- typical reaction: DOH! F***! I'm sooooo f***ing ripped off! Dammit! OMG!]
In any case, it appears as though I have a slightly better stance here on this all. Why? Let me put it this way:
[Someone DID NOT spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake doesn't actually improve performance ------- typical reaction: hmmmmmmmm, bummer]
[Someone DID spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake DOES actually improve performance -------- typical reaction: DOH! F***! I'm sooooo f***ing ripped off! Dammit! OMG!]
06-29-2004, 03:54 PM
#51
Supporting Maxima.org Member
iTrader: (15)
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Los Angeles, CA
Posts: 3,431
well...atleast my frankencar gives me noticeable gains....i dropped my ET's and dynoed higher after just putting the frankencar with apexi venturi dry filter on...interested in this thread however, I put my stock airbox back in with my new K&N panel filter I had laying around that I never used cause I bought this intake....and I noticed an immediate drop in performance!!! but I am a 5 spd so it's a lot easier to keep it in the higher rpm's I guess where the benefit of an intake really shines!
06-29-2004, 04:26 PM
#52
Originally Posted by BOSS
ummmmmmmmm, no, I think it's like this:
"maybe people that think the aftermarket set up is better are the ones with no brains"
people, face it! - intake does nothing. If anything, it causes severe loss of power in low-end, something one is not able to "make up” for in the long run when the intake “kicks in" (which "supposedly" happens in high-end :blah: :blah: )
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, intakes are worthless piles of ****. They do more harm to your engine in the long run. Many here won't admit this because they're stuck in the "denial" stage, being 16, 17, 18, or 19 years old, modifying their cars, transforming intakes into “performance” because "it's the thing to do".
In the end, companies out there make intakes so that a mostly misinformed crowd like the org will buy them (no offense, but that's what is looks like). Majority of the people here are young and either don't know or don't grasp the "realm" of intakes.
If you bought an intake because you like the growl it gives - that I understand. If you bought the intake because it dresses up your engine bay - that I understand. But if you bought it because you expected hp gain, then YOU are a bigger joke than the intake itself.
The "intake phenomena" is widespread. The truth is that it attracted many youngsters in contemporary society simply because it claims to give cheap hp, and we all want that. But in reality it does no such thing in NA vehicles. I do understand, however, that a heavily boosted vehicle MAY be in need of an intake. That's because FI may obviously require not only more air, but faster delivery of it. However, I know that even heavily boosted vehicles can do without it. There are 1000+ hp toyota supras with stock intake airboxes, showing no dyno gains whatsoever with aftermarket intakes. With FI though, it also depends on the amount of boost, the motor, etc.
Lastly, I have a little story to share with you all just to illustrate how biased this world is. I want to a drag strip last fall. The lines were long and literally hundreds of cars lined up, with an average wait time for a run of approx. 1.5 hours (hence I only got to run twice). Anyway, while waiting, an argument suddenly erupted. People began arguing with one another. At first, I did not know what all the fuss was about, but I soon found out.
While many individuals turn their cars off when in line to let their engines and intakes cool off, others are convinced that this is complete nonsense. Literally, this was the topic discussed all throughout the day at the track and people have gotten into fights (yes, some physical) over this (I know, stupid thing to fight over). Honest to God, 50% of people on the race track that day thought that letting your engine cool off helps, while the other 50% believed otherwise. Actually, those that didn’t think it helps had the better take on it because no proven gains were noticeable whatsoever with drivers who thought that doing so helps. Oh and it was pretty cold out too already, somewhere in the mid 50’s that night.
My take on this is also that turning off your NA car does not help its performance. Many have argued just the opposite – that when the car is fully warmed up and hot, that’s when it performs best. I know for sure that with boosted vehicles it’s an entirely different story because many people who “ice” turbos or superchargers beforehand put up much better numbers. And for obvious reasons, cars with FI do perform better when intercooled (whatever the way).
"maybe people that think the aftermarket set up is better are the ones with no brains"
people, face it! - intake does nothing. If anything, it causes severe loss of power in low-end, something one is not able to "make up” for in the long run when the intake “kicks in" (which "supposedly" happens in high-end :blah: :blah: )
Plzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz, intakes are worthless piles of ****. They do more harm to your engine in the long run. Many here won't admit this because they're stuck in the "denial" stage, being 16, 17, 18, or 19 years old, modifying their cars, transforming intakes into “performance” because "it's the thing to do".
In the end, companies out there make intakes so that a mostly misinformed crowd like the org will buy them (no offense, but that's what is looks like). Majority of the people here are young and either don't know or don't grasp the "realm" of intakes.
If you bought an intake because you like the growl it gives - that I understand. If you bought the intake because it dresses up your engine bay - that I understand. But if you bought it because you expected hp gain, then YOU are a bigger joke than the intake itself.
The "intake phenomena" is widespread. The truth is that it attracted many youngsters in contemporary society simply because it claims to give cheap hp, and we all want that. But in reality it does no such thing in NA vehicles. I do understand, however, that a heavily boosted vehicle MAY be in need of an intake. That's because FI may obviously require not only more air, but faster delivery of it. However, I know that even heavily boosted vehicles can do without it. There are 1000+ hp toyota supras with stock intake airboxes, showing no dyno gains whatsoever with aftermarket intakes. With FI though, it also depends on the amount of boost, the motor, etc.
Lastly, I have a little story to share with you all just to illustrate how biased this world is. I want to a drag strip last fall. The lines were long and literally hundreds of cars lined up, with an average wait time for a run of approx. 1.5 hours (hence I only got to run twice). Anyway, while waiting, an argument suddenly erupted. People began arguing with one another. At first, I did not know what all the fuss was about, but I soon found out.
While many individuals turn their cars off when in line to let their engines and intakes cool off, others are convinced that this is complete nonsense. Literally, this was the topic discussed all throughout the day at the track and people have gotten into fights (yes, some physical) over this (I know, stupid thing to fight over). Honest to God, 50% of people on the race track that day thought that letting your engine cool off helps, while the other 50% believed otherwise. Actually, those that didn’t think it helps had the better take on it because no proven gains were noticeable whatsoever with drivers who thought that doing so helps. Oh and it was pretty cold out too already, somewhere in the mid 50’s that night.
My take on this is also that turning off your NA car does not help its performance. Many have argued just the opposite – that when the car is fully warmed up and hot, that’s when it performs best. I know for sure that with boosted vehicles it’s an entirely different story because many people who “ice” turbos or superchargers beforehand put up much better numbers. And for obvious reasons, cars with FI do perform better when intercooled (whatever the way).
i think maybe boosted cars can benefit in some way from intakes just for the fact that boosted cars need lots amounts of air but for n/a cars i don't think theres a big gain if none at all.
What engines need is cold air and none provide that, injen filter just next to radiator and the others just inside the engine bay where it gets so hot, if someone provides real outside the engine bay air that would be good maybe some type of hood scoop ram air set up of something like that.
just my .02 cents!
btw anyone here has any dyno proof that the intake gave him(her) any gain just the intake without any other mod on car no y-pipe,catback nothing just intake
06-29-2004, 05:08 PM
#53
Donating Maxima.org Member
Join Date: Nov 2003
Posts: 96
I'm very far from being an expert, but this is an interesting discussion and I felt I had to toss a couple of pennies in here... feel free to tell me I'm wrong (and why) though.
Shouldn't it be that FI engines wouldn't benefit at all from intakes? After all, shoving more air into the engine cylinders is what the turbocharger or supercharger is there to do... as far as I know, that's their sole function... so what would be the point of trying to give it even MORE air?
As far as intakes for N/A cars... I don't really know anything about them, but I know some basic physics... not much, being an English major, but a little... and I did some thinking about this. The way I see it, the only way to increase engine power by only messing with air is to increase the amount of oxygen inside each cylinder when it goes boom (to a point... once the mixture is too lean for the ECU or fuel injectors to compensate for, you've gotta move on to other things)... and the only two ways to do this are to forcefully compress the oxygen (forced induction) or to lower the general temperature of the oxygen going in... if I'm right about that, then using a free-flowing air intake (I say "free-flowing", I don't know if there's another term people use) should do nothing... unless the intake is made to feed the engine cooler air (CAI)...? If my reasoning is right, a non-CAI intake should do nothing, unless the stock intake doesn't flow optimally, while a CAI intake should help performance, acting as a sort of (very)-poor-man's FI.
Like I said, I don't really know what I'm talking about, but maybe this'll be some food for thought to help you more knowledgable guys come to a conclusion.
Shouldn't it be that FI engines wouldn't benefit at all from intakes? After all, shoving more air into the engine cylinders is what the turbocharger or supercharger is there to do... as far as I know, that's their sole function... so what would be the point of trying to give it even MORE air?
As far as intakes for N/A cars... I don't really know anything about them, but I know some basic physics... not much, being an English major, but a little... and I did some thinking about this. The way I see it, the only way to increase engine power by only messing with air is to increase the amount of oxygen inside each cylinder when it goes boom (to a point... once the mixture is too lean for the ECU or fuel injectors to compensate for, you've gotta move on to other things)... and the only two ways to do this are to forcefully compress the oxygen (forced induction) or to lower the general temperature of the oxygen going in... if I'm right about that, then using a free-flowing air intake (I say "free-flowing", I don't know if there's another term people use) should do nothing... unless the intake is made to feed the engine cooler air (CAI)...? If my reasoning is right, a non-CAI intake should do nothing, unless the stock intake doesn't flow optimally, while a CAI intake should help performance, acting as a sort of (very)-poor-man's FI.
Like I said, I don't really know what I'm talking about, but maybe this'll be some food for thought to help you more knowledgable guys come to a conclusion.
06-29-2004, 05:10 PM
#54
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
What engines need is cold air and none provide that, injen filter just next to radiator and the others just inside the engine bay where it gets so hot, if someone provides real outside the engine bay air that would be good maybe some type of hood scoop ram air set up of something like that.
just my .02 cents!
just my .02 cents!
06-29-2004, 05:54 PM
#55
Originally Posted by BOSS
I respect your opinion, as I'm sure you respect mine - because we both don't have the facts to support this. I will think one way, you will think another.
In any case, it appears as though I have a slightly better stance here on this all. Why? Let me put it this way:
[Someone DID NOT spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake doesn't actually improve performance ------- typical reaction: hmmmmmmmm, bummer]
[Someone DID spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake DOES actually improve performance -------- typical reaction: DOH! F***! I'm sooooo f***ing ripped off! Dammit! OMG!]
In any case, it appears as though I have a slightly better stance here on this all. Why? Let me put it this way:
[Someone DID NOT spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake doesn't actually improve performance ------- typical reaction: hmmmmmmmm, bummer]
[Someone DID spend money on an intake] = [no proof that intake DOES actually improve performance -------- typical reaction: DOH! F***! I'm sooooo f***ing ripped off! Dammit! OMG!]
06-29-2004, 07:47 PM
#57
Not DAVEB the parts guy
Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 8,555
Boss:
I've tested multiple intake setups at the track and the stock airbox is not the best. With a stock intake and K&N filter panel, I ran 14.7@94mph. With the hacked airbox or the hybrid, I was running consistent 14.6s@95mph. The stock intake isn't bad at all, but there are ultimate track gains by going with the a good aftermarket intake.
As for hot motor / cold motor makes no difference in performance, I completely disagree. With over 150 passes in my Maxima, I know for a fact that cooling down the motor does help, especially on hot days. I've seen as much .2 and 2mph by just letting my Maxima cool for just 40 minutes. On average, a decent cool down is good for at least .1 and 1mph. The VQ has a relatively high compression ratio and the motor is very sensitive to heat. It's about as sensitive to heat as my old 94 Z28. My buddies lower compression 5.0s aren't nearly as affected. Some cars are and some cars aren't.
I've tested multiple intake setups at the track and the stock airbox is not the best. With a stock intake and K&N filter panel, I ran 14.7@94mph. With the hacked airbox or the hybrid, I was running consistent 14.6s@95mph. The stock intake isn't bad at all, but there are ultimate track gains by going with the a good aftermarket intake.
As for hot motor / cold motor makes no difference in performance, I completely disagree. With over 150 passes in my Maxima, I know for a fact that cooling down the motor does help, especially on hot days. I've seen as much .2 and 2mph by just letting my Maxima cool for just 40 minutes. On average, a decent cool down is good for at least .1 and 1mph. The VQ has a relatively high compression ratio and the motor is very sensitive to heat. It's about as sensitive to heat as my old 94 Z28. My buddies lower compression 5.0s aren't nearly as affected. Some cars are and some cars aren't.
06-29-2004, 08:54 PM
#58
Senior Member
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 501
Here's my .02, Most of these post you will see where people liked no intake better they will be auto's. This seem's to be a bigger deal to the auto's than manual's. I personaly have an ebay short ram with a jwt velocity stack cone, and i feel that I did gain a little top end. Lost no low end and gained 1 mpg consitently for 3 tanks of gas in a row. I do believe that a quality filter like jwt, or stillen or even apexi will make a diffrence, and I think that this is more of an auto problem than a five speed because I never noticed it. 
06-29-2004, 09:52 PM
#59
Originally Posted by HybriDSM
the stock airbox on a Maxima actually flows better than a non-restricted, non-muffled, straight pipe sucking air out of the wheelwell? That just doesnt sound right.
06-29-2004, 09:56 PM
#60
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
its not about flow its about air temp and btw i do like how cai looks on engine bay but not willing to lost any low end being auto
06-29-2004, 09:57 PM
#61
I don't know who started this CAI = low end power loss but that's totally contradicting everything that's been discussed when the CAI first came out. If anything the CAI HELPS lowend due to it's long length. ie.. like using longer length headers vs shorty types. If it has a downfall (if any), it's that loses high end running
Originally Posted by maximus_pr
its not about flow its about air temp and btw i do like how cai looks on engine bay but not willing to lost any low end being auto
06-29-2004, 10:19 PM
#62
Originally Posted by IwANnAMaX96
You don't pay attention do you? I, like others in this thread, have mentioned the Place Racing CAI that sits in the fender and draws in ambient air.
06-30-2004, 03:31 AM
#64
Originally Posted by jpos985
hold up im confused....so with an intake pipe im gettin less low end torque than with the stock rubber piping leading to the filter????
06-30-2004, 07:56 AM
#65
Member
Join Date: Oct 2002
Posts: 170
im have a five speed with stillen intake. i did notice an increase in power with the intake on, maybe a very small low end drop, but neglegable. and as for the people that say its not about flow but air temp i disagree. look at the stock intake and you can see that it is very restrivtive and thus the car has to work harder to suck air in robbing it some power.
i cant speak for intake performance on automatic cars comunque. it seems like this discussion comes up on the org at least once a year. i remember reading numerous articles on cai vs. pop charger intakes. the conversation always goes in circles. modding cars is all about experimentation so do what works. i feel that my stillen intake gives me gains, so im leaving it on.
"tutti impedamenti, giovamento"
i cant speak for intake performance on automatic cars comunque. it seems like this discussion comes up on the org at least once a year. i remember reading numerous articles on cai vs. pop charger intakes. the conversation always goes in circles. modding cars is all about experimentation so do what works. i feel that my stillen intake gives me gains, so im leaving it on.
"tutti impedamenti, giovamento"
07-02-2004, 10:58 AM
#66
Most Perverted Member of the SE-L Club
Join Date: Jul 2002
Posts: 1,512
Originally Posted by Jeff92se
I don't know who started this CAI = low end power loss but that's totally contradicting everything that's been discussed when the CAI first came out. If anything the CAI HELPS lowend due to it's long length. ie.. like using longer length headers vs shorty types. If it has a downfall (if any), it's that loses high end running
I always thought that's what they did. Althought the increase is not dramatic, the first mods that would benefit autos were an intake and a y-pipe, to boost low and top end power, respectively.
And if nothing else, an intake should be giving you better gas mileage, due to more air being sucked in, and because there's no restrictions (other than the filter)
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