Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

About a week ago I installed the cams. To anyone wanting to try this I found the Chilton’s manual to be a great help. Install time was somewhere around 20 hours, but it can be done in much less time. I had to re-adjust the timing chain so it was pretty much like doing two installs. What a relief to finally hear it run after all that time!
After the break-in I couldn’t wait to take it to redline. But I still haven’t been able to fully realize the gains because my vacuum canister for the VI is cracked from the heat.
I can definitely feel the power loss under 4000 but even without the VI opening it pulls very hard to redline.

I previously had put down 188hp and 199tq back in Georgia. The only other thing besides headers and cams I've changed is now the alternator is the only thing being turned by the crank. I also had to have the dyno operator manually open the butterflies on the VI so the activation point wasn’t exactly optimal. On the last run he opened it at about 6200, but it was perfectly tuned (had been running rich) and my session was up so I never had a chance to mess around with different points.

The stats:
Temp: 68F
Pressure: 28.57in-Hg
Humidity: 11%
110,000 miles on 99SE
STD Correction: SAE Correction:
215HP @ 6450/194TQ @ 4400 211HP @ 6450/190TQ @ 4400

So my torque dropped about 10ft lbs. But I gained 23 hp peak.
I NEED TO FIND A WAY TO REMOVE THE REV LIMITER!! Power was still building. Also even though the VI wasn’t kicked in until 6200 there was no power drop off at all. Here is the breakdown of the numbers:
(SAE Corrected)
RPM/HP/TQ
3500/114.6/171.8 5700/193.4/178.3
4000/140.7/184.8 5800/193.5/175.2
4500/162.3/189.8 5900/193.8/172.5
5000/178.5/187.2 6000/195.0/170.5
5100/181.7/187.0 6100/196.7/169.4
5200/184.9/186.9 6200/207.0/175.5 <- VI Activatied
5300/187.2/185.3 6300/208.4/173.6
5400/188.8/183.5 6400/209.6/172.4
5500/190.6/182.0 6450/211.2/171.8
5600/190.9/179.1

Anyways if any of you have Dynojet RunViewer and would like me to send the files to you, just let me know.

Jepht20

iTrader: (10)

awesome! people will be very happy to finally see some results. 23hp is a good gain! once you get your mevi right and everything perfect, i bet you're gonna see some great results! great job!

this makes me wish i knew more about that stuff...slowly but surely i'll learn.

Vyrus

iTrader: (4)

Wow impressive gains, but doesn't the torque loss concern you?
-Cyrus

DaThrillr

awesome numbers

do u have a JWT ecu? what octane feul were u running ?

Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

I'm worried that it will hinder performance at the track, since mid-range torque is important, but I'm hoping the gains with nitrous will be worth the loss in torque.
I'm wish I had an ECU, but its just the stocker. I'm running 91 octane

DaThrillr

ok maybe with a boost in octane u will get even better #s, try adding some race feul to ur 91 octane (like 101 or higher) ... and the ECU is a must,,, IMO... but too bad us later model 4th gens cant get one bc JW is too lazy to break codes ..

how drastic of a change did u feel with removing the AC from ur crank?

and how is ur idle with the new cams? does it sound agressive?maybe u can post a video or audio of the new idle.

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

Hey Matt.
Nice number man. I herd your car at SWA last weeks and it sounds so nice with the cams.
You gotta take that beast to the track man

Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

I didn't really notice much of a difference, but it could have accounted for 5 or so of that horsepower.

Idle is very choppy, but I love it. I have yet to raise the idle because I love the lope at 500. It sounds like the car has a heartbeat. I imagine people that hear it are thinking that something is wrong with the car.

I've promised vids for a while but I'll get off my *** and get them posted

Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

Thanks Danny Maybe we can have a track meet next week! How do you like the y-pipe?

Eric425

Why would a boost in octane have any effect on hp numbers? I thought high octane just prevents pre detonation in cars with high compression ratio, boosted, etc. If the octane is high enough so that the knock sensor doesn't have to retard timing, what difference does it make? Iron Lung has cams, so I can see the use of higher octane gas for his car, but there's lots of guys in the 1/4 m forum who only have intake/exhaust who just use the highest octane gas they can get. Why?

happyricefob

iTrader: (7)

JWT ECU???

Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

Hopefully soon we will find a way to make a 95-97 ecu work in a 98-99. Maybe a new ignition switch and wiring harness?

optimus310

iTrader: (1)

I'm down for a meet at the track any day.
The Y pipe was nice until I took it to some shop to get the flex replaced. They didn't had the size I needed so I had to settle with a 2" flex. and the welding they did is horrible. I'm just going to buy a brand new one because when I was installing it I bend the flex really bad and got the nice bees in the can sound, which was fixed with some exhaust wrap. Any way it helped me trap at 90s at the track and gave me .1 on the 1/4 mile

But yeah man let me know when you going to the track. Me and some friends are planning on going to speedworld during the week.

ZuMBLe

iTrader: (1)

Did you really think he didn't know about the ECU???

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

Remindes me of the loss and gain with the VI. It would probably be safe to say no 1/4 mile gain will be seen, but I hope you prove me wrong.

Mishasmax

iTrader: (1)

The knock sensor on "most" engines will control timing by letting the engine advance till the ks detects ping/knock/detonation. Thus the higher octane you use will advance the timing further . . .. to a point. The ecu has a "map" it follows for load and condition criteria if the ecu map will max out on 91 octane than using 92 will not increase power or timing IF nothing else has changed.

On gm 1500 series trucks from the late 90's using 92 octane would trip the mil due to the ks NOT detecting ping and the ECU trying to advance till it was out of range. the ECU then triggered a KS code as the ks was silent. With a flash from the dealer the map was updated and the problem went away.

Now since his cams have been changed the conditions in the combustion chamber will be different. It may now be hotter and be more prone to detonation and MAY benefit from a higher octane rating as the ECU may have to retard the timing to reduce knock present. However, if this adjustment needs to exceed the map values in his OEM ECU then higher octane will not add any benefit.

Just some thoughts @ 2:30 am

Mike

(If I am wrong on anything please don’t flame me I was just stating things as I understand them @ the mo. Still learning!)

oh yeah. . . where did you get the cams and were they made special or are they a standard aftermarket part?

deezo

iTrader: (3)

If it will make you feel better, I have a 96 ECU that Technosquare is trying to crack., They've had my ECU for about 2 months now.

ZuMBLe

iTrader: (1)

Why no JWT ECU? I'm running a 96 ECU on my car with no CEL.

infinitiblast

iTrader: (2)

Hmmm looks decent.....but in all honesty.....For the money spent and I will just use the prices I know here..
1100 for cams
I think cattman has his headers for what 699?
1800 bucks 20hrs later..........is it really worth the 23hp youget? Personally from first glance I would say no. But I get what your saying...about NOS...etc.hopefully it will make allot better use of that and forced induction. Looks like she really open up top..........that will be lovely on the highway

I had a question..did you keep your stock springs or install the jwt upgrade ones?

4DRSpeed

iTrader: (22)

$1100 for cams and a 23HP gain, ya probably really isn't worth the money. But you still get a nice gain and nothing compares to that awesome sound. It's gotta sound like the Shelby in Gone in 60 Seconds

Stephen Max

iTrader: (59)

I took the liberty of graphing your numbers, I hope you don't mind:

ZuMBLe

iTrader: (1)

Looks like mini-vtec kicks in.

deezo

iTrader: (3)

Because their CS sucks. I'd rather give my money to nicer people.

ZuMBLe

iTrader: (1)

Agreed. Vi and JWT ecu.. Two most painful mods.. =( I think combined time to get both was like a year! If my JWT ECU ever goes out I'm going to put the stock one back in and just call it a day. =P Wonder if the TS ECU will be stronger than the JWT.

MAXimumHP

iTrader: (7)

So you did the install yourself ha? How difficult was it. I noticed you stated the Chilton Manual was quite helpful. I can envision myself being able to install the cams, but I've never adjusted valves in the past. So for example if you can take the chain cover off and replace the tensioner and water pump is changing these cams a reasonable thing to attempt.

I30tMikeD

iTrader: (8)

With your VI opening 1K rpms late, you don't have a real good idea of what you would have gained from 5k-6.2K, which is the heart of a VI's power band.

Also your last dyno before the headers and cams was really odd looking for a VI dyno. There was a loss in power after the VI was supposed to have opend. So you may not have gained as much as you think.

As far as the cost of these mods, yes they are expensive but after at a certin point NA power is not cheap. Not all mods are going to be the bang for the buck mod like a Y-pipe. Hate to say it but you after a while you gotta pay to play. For my car there is not much more I can do for less than $500 if I want to go faster.

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

Nice numbers Matt! Should be enough to get you into the 13s NA.

infinitiblast

iTrader: (2)

Dont forget he had cattman headers put on too

Capital15

iTrader: (45)

Good numbers!!

MaxedOutOfCash

so it's $1100 for 20hp.

infinitiblast

iTrader: (2)

I didnt say it.

Y2KSESteve

iTrader: (22)

When an NA maxima can edge out an SRT-4 in 1-3 run with both good drivers I'd say it was well worth it.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

Well, I was about to say that you guys are just looking at peak #'s not realizing that he makes peak HP at redline and it's still rising. The extended powerband IMO would make it worth it. As is, he's making close to 250 HP to the flywheel assuming 14% drivetrain loss. And all this without an ECU upgrade. Damn...

99Maxima5sp

Sweet, decent numbers, look forward to some track times!


Eric

Dave B

It all looks very promising even with the very late switchover. Too bad we're still missing just a Cattman header dyno.

For comparison sake, I used my dyno plot of just my VI, hybrid intake, b-pipe, y-pipe, and UDP.....haven't dynoed with the JWT ECU yet. My numbers were 189fwhp@6100rpms and 185fwtq@4600rpms. Comparing my numbers to Iron Lung's, he's making an average extra 8fwhp/fwtq from 3500-6100rpms and after that, he's making over 25-30fwhp/fwtq. I'd imagine setting the switchover at 5400rpms will result in an extra 10-15fwhp/fwtq from 5400-6200rpms. Too bad he has a 99 because his chances of getting a raised rev-limiter are pretty much impossible. People with JWT ECUs could really take full advantage of this.

Like others have said, NA power is VERY expensive. Cattman headers, JWT cams, and no accessory belt looks like it nets similiar gains to what the VI does alone. With the extended rev limiter (7500rpms ) and the additional power gains of the JWT ECU, we could be looking at 220+fwhp NA VQ capable of lower 13s on slicks.

Who's got their $2000 plus install ready?


Dave

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Im working on it right now
Ill hold out for different cams , the delete power steering and AC is probably worth 5 whp ,headers who knows.

Iron Lung

iTrader: (6)

I got them from Southwest Autoworks. Camshaft Specs

I kept the stock springs in. Maybe if I find a way to remove the limiter I'll buy them.

If you have taken the cover off you should have no problems installing cams. Only thing you really have to check is valve lash. You need a feeler gauge to measure the distance between the camshaft lobe and the cam follower. If everything is in spec(intake 0.010-0.013 in)(exhaust 0.011-0.016 in.) you are good to go. If it is out of spec you have to adjust with shims.

Thanks for your help, Steve I can't wait until you get teh max next week. You know there is going to be a battle everyday after work.

Here is a screenshot of my dyno:

Mishasmax

iTrader: (1)

THanks for the info. your #'s look great! when I rebuilt my 4.0 on my Jeep I bored/stroked it used higher compression pistions and a more agressive cam in adition to adding headers and a cat back i spent about $1700 wish I could do that to the max 4.2 l and dynoed to 265hp/280tq @ the flywheel wheee!

mike

kenji

iTrader: (1)

When headers make 3 hp and a y-pipe alone makes ~10, I'm sure Brian Catts will want to shoot himself..

I think we could probably assume this much without getting too far ahead of ourselves. His dyno shows a (very standard) slowdown in power curve from 5000 rpm to 6200 rpm when the VI opened. Assuming it had opened when it's optimal @ ~5100 rpm, shouldn't the power have increased much quicker before redline?

finally somebody gets that crap off the tip of my tongue, thanks Mike.

Is that because you hate neons as much as I do? Or because the SRT-4 makes you hate them even more? woot.


It's great to see someone finally testing out the cams. Along with complete internal reworking, a higher redline (dare we say 8k?) and steady supply of 100+ octane fuel, ($$$$$ later) we can forget about SRT-4, and start pickin fights with other maxima's. the F/I ones

infinitiblast

iTrader: (2)

I too would love to see the dyno with the vi opening at the proper time...all that want to see it say I and donate 5 dollars so he can go dyno again...the more people we have the less money to donate.