ABS-cancel switch--is this possible
01-09-2003, 07:50 PM
#1
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 27
ABS-cancel switch--is this possible
I live in Maine and obviously..we get a LOT of snow. has anyone out there noticed that ABS sucks when you need to stop in anything more than an inch of snow? I've been in two situations this week where I almost nailed the car in front of me because the ABS lets the tires skip right over deep snow. If I could cancel the ABS in these situations the tires would dig right in and STOP the car. I want to set up a switch to temporarily disable the ABS when I need to. I am thinking about removing the fuse from tthe panel and wiring up a plunger-type switch that would break the connection. Has anyone done anything like this? I did a search and didn't come up with anything helpful.
01-09-2003, 10:37 PM
#4
you will end up nailing those cars if you turn off the ABS, but in my old car if you drive with the e-brake(just one click so that the light comes on) for like a minute the ABS light comes on telling the ABS is off.
But i dont recomend it, my ABS has saved me more than once.
But i dont recomend it, my ABS has saved me more than once.
01-10-2003, 12:13 AM
#5
Don't dot it. Your ABS is slipping like crazy because your tires are sliding like crazy. The problem is not ABS. I noticed that my ABS reacts much better in bad weather when I have my 15s on than with my 17s. The thinner 15s can bite the ground better in wet/snowy conditions than the fatter tires on my 17s. Your ABS is just trying real hard. Put on some thinner tires more suited to bad weather and you'll see.
DW
DW
01-10-2003, 07:41 AM
#7
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 216
You guys are missing the point. It's been documented that cars stop better without ABS on granular/loose surfaces such as gravel, sand, and yes, snow. Now, this doesn't apply if you're driving on hard packed snow. The idea is that when the wheel locks up, it digs into the loose surface and stops the vehicle. The big negative I can see with modifying the brake system is, if you should get into an accident of ANY kind and decide to sue, this will surely come up and you're likely to lose. Not saying you should go one way or the other, just something to keep in mind.
01-10-2003, 07:52 AM
#8
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Join Date: Aug 2000
Posts: 2,529
ABS is not meant to make you stop better. It is meant to
allow you to maintain control of the steering of
your car by preventing the wheels from locking up. In your
case if you disable it and you try to turn the
wheel in a skid you're gonn hit the car in front of you.
With ABS you turn the wheel you will avoid plowing into the
car in front of you
allow you to maintain control of the steering of
your car by preventing the wheels from locking up. In your
case if you disable it and you try to turn the
wheel in a skid you're gonn hit the car in front of you.
With ABS you turn the wheel you will avoid plowing into the
car in front of you
01-10-2003, 08:53 AM
#9
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Join Date: Dec 2002
Posts: 304
My abs saved me from sliding through an intersection a few times, recently a few weeks ago i hit a long patch of ice in the shadow of a building and i was pleased to feel the wheel skip feel and know that i was going to eventually stop.. and my e brake helped as well.
01-10-2003, 09:05 AM
#10
i hate my abs, in my 90 max, when i hit the brake, it would stop in the snow even at high speeds, it would move me a little but in end it would stop the wheel from spinning. I'm coming off the offramp in my 95 se and abs kicks in...wouldn't stop...the pedal just started vibrating when i applied preasure..almost smacked the car in front of me ...good thing had an e brake.
01-10-2003, 12:01 PM
#13
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Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 216
Still not getting it. Ice is not a loose/granular surface. ABS works well in traction depleted conditions where the surface is relatively smooth. This would include rainy roads, icy roads, etc. Loose surfaces, whereby the surface material would bunch up or gather in front of the locked wheels, are where ABS becomes a hindrance to good stopping distances.
Yes, ABS was designed to to enable drivers to maintain control of their vehicles during emergency accident avoidance procedures WHILE applying the brakes but it was ALSO designed to shorten stopping distances. The reason you don't hear too much about this aspect of ABS is because it's a good thing if you stop shorter than the person in front of you but sucks if you stop shorter than the person behind you. Touting this aspect of ABS theorically opens them up to lawsuits.
Yes, ABS was designed to to enable drivers to maintain control of their vehicles during emergency accident avoidance procedures WHILE applying the brakes but it was ALSO designed to shorten stopping distances. The reason you don't hear too much about this aspect of ABS is because it's a good thing if you stop shorter than the person in front of you but sucks if you stop shorter than the person behind you. Touting this aspect of ABS theorically opens them up to lawsuits.
01-10-2003, 07:45 PM
#14
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Join Date: Oct 2000
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I guess "Freedog" is the only one out there who agrees with me. I hear all you guys that say ABS allows you to steer and maintain directional control but it DOES increase your stopping distance by a significant margin on loose surfaces. Remember..I'm talking about snow here..not ice or water. Somebody mentioned that they had to pull the e-brake to stop in a situation similar to mine. Thats exactly what I am trying to do here. Pulling the "E" is going to lock only the rears. If I can disable the ABS on demand, I can lock all four, dig right in and STOP.
I know how ABS works and I agree that I could never pump the pedal anywhere near as quick as the system.
Hey Freedog, what do you think of my idea on the switch? The only problem that I can foresee is that the computer might read the interruption to the ABS as a fault and trigger a code. Then, each time I hit the switch I will have to reset the computer.
I know how ABS works and I agree that I could never pump the pedal anywhere near as quick as the system.
Hey Freedog, what do you think of my idea on the switch? The only problem that I can foresee is that the computer might read the interruption to the ABS as a fault and trigger a code. Then, each time I hit the switch I will have to reset the computer.
01-10-2003, 10:56 PM
#15
I see what you're talking about. The one situation where ABS is a dis-advantage. The snow you're talking about must be the just fallen type, and, like sand, a wheel that has locked up (thanks to NO ABS) can use the sand or snow piling up in front of the wheels to bring it to a stop faster. In that case, you'd need the kill switch. Now I, living in the NYC metro area, will most likely never see that kind of scenario, so I wasn't even envisioning it on this thread. If I brake in bad weather, most likely it's because of car's sudden behaviour in front of me, and the snow will not have just fallen, and the distance between me and disaster will be quite short. I will most definitely need my ABS
DW
DW
01-11-2003, 05:37 AM
#16
Senior Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 216
It seems reasonable to assume that you could get a code due to interrupting the signal. In your position, I guess there's no good reason not to try it for a while and see how it works. Interrupting the signal shouldn't harm any other part of the braking system. Give it a try and let us know what happens.
01-11-2003, 06:15 AM
#17
Originally posted by Freedog
You guys are missing the point. It's been documented that cars stop better without ABS on granular/loose surfaces such as gravel, sand, and yes, snow. Now, this doesn't apply if you're driving on hard packed snow. The idea is that when the wheel locks up, it digs into the loose surface and stops the vehicle. The big negative I can see with modifying the brake system is, if you should get into an accident of ANY kind and decide to sue, this will surely come up and you're likely to lose. Not saying you should go one way or the other, just something to keep in mind.
You guys are missing the point. It's been documented that cars stop better without ABS on granular/loose surfaces such as gravel, sand, and yes, snow. Now, this doesn't apply if you're driving on hard packed snow. The idea is that when the wheel locks up, it digs into the loose surface and stops the vehicle. The big negative I can see with modifying the brake system is, if you should get into an accident of ANY kind and decide to sue, this will surely come up and you're likely to lose. Not saying you should go one way or the other, just something to keep in mind.
very well said!! its true! sometimes the quickest way to stop is to let thecars tires dig into the mush!
01-11-2003, 09:18 PM
#18
I guess only a few of us live in the New England area. I agree completely: ABS has caused way more near-accidents than it has saved my ***, and I wish I had some kind of a shutoff switch. And for those who believe that ABS gives directional control, I challange you do drive down my snow covered street in Worcester, MA (giant hills), press the breaks and try to steer. It doesn't happen. The E-brake thing is what I usually do when I'm in a situation where I might crash.
-E
-E
01-12-2003, 10:06 PM
#23
Do you drive around the Worcester area much? I see a few Maximas in the area that appear to be modded.. not sure if they're forum members.
Originally posted by padam07
Hey Lushka16, I live in Oxford. Weird seeing someone on the board who lives near me.
Hey Lushka16, I live in Oxford. Weird seeing someone on the board who lives near me.
01-12-2003, 10:28 PM
#24
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Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 590
Originally posted by Freedog
Still not getting it. Ice is not a loose/granular surface. ABS works well in traction depleted conditions where the surface is relatively smooth. This would include rainy roads, icy roads, etc. Loose surfaces, whereby the surface material would bunch up or gather in front of the locked wheels, are where ABS becomes a hindrance to good stopping distances.
....
Still not getting it. Ice is not a loose/granular surface. ABS works well in traction depleted conditions where the surface is relatively smooth. This would include rainy roads, icy roads, etc. Loose surfaces, whereby the surface material would bunch up or gather in front of the locked wheels, are where ABS becomes a hindrance to good stopping distances.
....
But here's the deal... leave it on the other 95% of the time. You'll never outbrake any ABS on a wet road or a moderately icy one, especially where there's that wet black ice in the shoulder and rough black in the center.... bad news. If you're also the least bit tired or not paying 100% attention ABS will also save your but.
Now go out and drive a Lexus IS300 or the old LS400. Sweet ABS. I don't know why but the system works 100% better in real sh!tty conditions. The worst offender is any GM product. God help you.
-RMB
01-13-2003, 03:56 AM
#25
Originally posted by Lushka16
Do you drive around the Worcester area much? I see a few Maximas in the area that appear to be modded.. not sure if they're forum members.
Do you drive around the Worcester area much? I see a few Maximas in the area that appear to be modded.. not sure if they're forum members.
01-13-2003, 05:56 AM
#26
Member who somehow became The President of The SE-L Club
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Posts: 16,033
Re: ABS-cancel switch--is this possible
Originally posted by scrap-iron
I've been in two situations this week where I almost nailed the car in front of me because the ABS lets the tires skip right over deep snow. If I could cancel the ABS in these situations the tires would dig right in and STOP the car.
I've been in two situations this week where I almost nailed the car in front of me because the ABS lets the tires skip right over deep snow. If I could cancel the ABS in these situations the tires would dig right in and STOP the car.
Your ABS system stops your car faster on slick roads then you can. Thats a fact! If you lock up your wheels, you will snow plow. ABS keeps the wheels turning so the tire tread can dig in and bite. As the tire rotates, the snow is thrown out of the tread, if the wheel is locked up, all the snow stays under the tire and you will slide like a slead into the car in front of you.
There is no way you can stop your car faster then your ABS system can on slippery roads. Test it yourself in a parking lot. Then SLOW DOWN!
01-13-2003, 02:57 PM
#28
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Join Date: Oct 2000
Posts: 27
Re: Re: ABS-cancel switch--is this possible
Originally posted by njmaxseltd
First off you need to slow down in bad weather.
Your ABS system stops your car faster on slick roads then you can. Thats a fact! If you lock up your wheels, you will snow plow. ABS keeps the wheels turning so the tire tread can dig in and bite. As the tire rotates, the snow is thrown out of the tread, if the wheel is locked up, all the snow stays under the tire and you will slide like a slead into the car in front of you.
There is no way you can stop your car faster then your ABS system can on slippery roads. Test it yourself in a parking lot. Then SLOW DOWN!
First off you need to slow down in bad weather.
Your ABS system stops your car faster on slick roads then you can. Thats a fact! If you lock up your wheels, you will snow plow. ABS keeps the wheels turning so the tire tread can dig in and bite. As the tire rotates, the snow is thrown out of the tread, if the wheel is locked up, all the snow stays under the tire and you will slide like a slead into the car in front of you.
There is no way you can stop your car faster then your ABS system can on slippery roads. Test it yourself in a parking lot. Then SLOW DOWN!
NJMAX, I challenge you. Find a parking lot with an inch or two of snow. Not ice..snow. DIsable your ABS and jump on the brakes. I am absolutlely sure that you will find that your max stops in a shorter distance. Don't get me wrong here...85% of the time I am thankful that I have ABS. But in SNOW, the ABS action will PREVENT your tires from "digging in". The anti-lock feature will cause your tires to skip over the snow and lengthen your stopping distance. I have lived in Maine for 28 years and trust me when I tell you that I am and experienced driver in foul road conditions.
01-13-2003, 03:27 PM
#29
Member
Join Date: Mar 2002
Posts: 203
Re: Re: Re: ABS-cancel switch--is this possible
Originally posted by scrap-iron
NJMAX, I challenge you. Find a parking lot with an inch or two of snow. Not ice..snow. DIsable your ABS and jump on the brakes. I am absolutlely sure that you will find that your max stops in a shorter distance. Don't get me wrong here...85% of the time I am thankful that I have ABS. But in SNOW, the ABS action will PREVENT your tires from "digging in". The anti-lock feature will cause your tires to skip over the snow and lengthen your stopping distance. I have lived in Maine for 28 years and trust me when I tell you that I am and experienced driver in foul road conditions.
NJMAX, I challenge you. Find a parking lot with an inch or two of snow. Not ice..snow. DIsable your ABS and jump on the brakes. I am absolutlely sure that you will find that your max stops in a shorter distance. Don't get me wrong here...85% of the time I am thankful that I have ABS. But in SNOW, the ABS action will PREVENT your tires from "digging in". The anti-lock feature will cause your tires to skip over the snow and lengthen your stopping distance. I have lived in Maine for 28 years and trust me when I tell you that I am and experienced driver in foul road conditions.
01-13-2003, 06:59 PM
#30
There should be a distinction made here. This snow that can pile up is the freshly fallen stuff, no? Not the stuff that has settled. Dis-abled ABS may be better on the freshly fallen stuff. But, given that the freshly fallen snow has a shorter period of existence than the more setlled snow, which is un-likely to pile up, the chances of needing to dis-able ABS are considerable small in the snow.
In hot weather, though, on a dirt/dusty road, where dirt is just dirt and its properties don't change at all, and it will always pile up, there I can see a need ,often, to dis-able ABS.
DW
In hot weather, though, on a dirt/dusty road, where dirt is just dirt and its properties don't change at all, and it will always pile up, there I can see a need ,often, to dis-able ABS.
DW
