Jime

iTrader: (10)

After running the 3.5 swapped 95 for a year I was thinking seriously about changing platforms. So I sold my engine and installed it into a 2001 for a local fellow and was about to hibernate for the winter. After a lot of soul searching I decided that the devil you know is better than the one you don't so I bought another 3.5 and 2002 ECU and went to work.

Which is easier? Which is better?

Some if it comes down to personal preference and some to what you know the most about. If you are really mechanically inclined then maybe the timing gear swap is easier, if you are into electrical/electronics then maybe the ECU swap is for you.

Once I get the new setup tuned I will have a better idea if there is any performance advantage but right now I am just about to start getting the a/f etc where I want it and go to the track on Sat/Sun. Time will tell.

When I trimmed the dash harness I decided it would be a good time for a little more weight reduction. This is the wiring I removed and it doesn't include the old engine harness or the trimmings from the new dash harness. Over 20 lbs of wiring in that mess and it was all hiding under the dash.



Without the help of Dave (eng92) I would never have accomplished this or even attempted it. However in hindsight it really wasn't all that difficult, just tedious. Much less physical labor than the timing gear swap.

How does it run. Great now. The idle is the best compared to the timing gear swap. The ecu does all the idle control as well as the cruise control which is a real bonus and you don't need to modify the throttle body.

Price comparison. Mostly depends on where you get your stuff. I got the ecu, key and immobilizer for $125 and the engine and dash harness was $150.

After the first couple of outings I realized I wasn't getting 100% throttle until I hit almost 5k. It would spike initially then drop to 35-50% depending on how the ecu felt that day. After trying just about everything I could think of, (2 weeks of head scratching and bugging eng92) I decided to get another ECU from a manual tranny setup because I kept getting the CAN codes and figured that might be the culprit. So I got the ECU and took it too the local Nissan dealer and he programmed it for the NATS setup and away I went. Guess what it didn't work, it did change somewhat and the throttle started to open up to 70% but still took until 5k until it fully opened and a lot of the time it was at 35-50% as well.

Then after talking with eng92 some more I realized that the VSS signal is not the same on the 5.5 Gen's and the VSS signal comes from the gauge cluster where the signal is modified from what it receives from the trans. So last week I bought a 2002 gauge cluster and just finished installing it. Now the throttle goes to 100%. So whoever else out there has done the ECU swap I can tell you that you aren't getting 100% throttle if you haven't swapped the gauge cluster. Good part is that they aren't expensive, some can be had for $50 and the digital stuff is nice to have. Pretty easy swap most of the stuff is the same.



So I have until fri to tune and it will probably take me that long as I have also installed the V-manage today and it will take some time to play with that since no one has any maps etc for them yet.

Here it is June and I still haven't had a chance to try this thing out to see what it will really do compared to last year. However we did buy a new house in Apr and its amazing all the jobs a wife can dream up for you to do which are much more important than working on your car. But, I finished all the honey-do stuff and now its play time. One thing about being retired is that your job doesn't prevent you from working full time on your real purpose in life.

If I had it to do all over gain which would I do? Hands down the ECU swap, regardless of what people say about E-Gas I like it and can't tell the difference in reaction time from the cable setup.p

krismax

iTrader: (15)

Great job that took alot of guts ,to just change from a working setup to take on another .

I cant wait to see the differences at the track.

also from the driving you have done how does it feel to you?

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Great work, I heard about someone doing this swap, didn't know who until a month ago

Good luck with the vmanage

Theyears02

cant wait to see what kind of power advantages are to be had with the v-manage, maybe it will bring 300whp into the playing field...awaiting track times. too bad the gauge cluster has to be changed out, but on the bright side it does look better

Jime

iTrader: (10)

I was out last night doing a bit of tuning. I do 2nd gear runs from a standing start with the auto, that way it doesn't burn too much rubber or take too long of a run. Once it hits 4k its pretty vicious. Hard to compare though because the last time I did any WOT runs was last fall. My a/f isn't too bad without any tune so its not going to take much adjusting.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

What if it doesn't matter (ie if one can handle both mech and elec), which do you like better then, from a performance and driveability standpoint? Although I guess you'll know better once you're tuned up and get a few 1/4 mile passes in, probably not fair to ask you that yet.

Something else that's probably at play here is manual vs auto. In terms of the 1/4 mile having the boost in low-mid torque with the working VTC's might be MUCH more important for auto's, since they can't just rev to 6500 and drop the clutch. 1/4 mile performance difference on a stick-shift with or without VTC's might not be substantial. But for street driving and/or making aggressive cams liveable at idle/cruise/part throttle etc both manual and auto would benefit with the VTC's.


Man, I wish!! Between all the house projects and the full-time job it's taking me forever to get my car back up and running.


Good info on the VSS/gauge cluster stuff too, I'm sure that will help those who would go this route (full ECU swap).

What about your timing, KS issues.. any update on that?

eng92

iTrader: (3)

With stock cams, the v-manage is not likely to boost peak power as the cams are already almost fully retarded with stock programming at that rpm level.

If you have looked at the limited dyno info for its application to other engines, all the gains are in the low to midrange.
In the case of the VQ35, you can advance the cams earlier and to a larger degree to boost low/midrange torque.

The V-manage should really shine with a set of aggressive aftermarket cams especially when combined with a set of Nismo phasers.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

I swapped in another KS last night and did a couple more runs. It gives the same timing #'s as the 4th Gen ECU now. I didn't get a chance to do any more with the new ks and + timing. But as you can see on the graph I posted with the ks and the resistor it will run +40 no problem. I was a little concerned after seeing Dave's graphs that I wouldn't be able to get the timing I wanted.

DandyMax

iTrader: (7)

Now that's what I was talking about (or hinting at).


Those graphs were a bit hard to read (a little small), but yes I did see the 41 where your line cursor was positioned.

So what was different on his setup... bad KS? Both A33B ECU's...

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Congratulations Jim on solving your throttle opening issue.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

I am a little concerned too.

I should get my replacement coils tomorrow so I will do some WOT runs with a resistor in place of the ks.

The car pulls strong though and my stock WOT timing is right where it was spring 06 when I first fiinished the swap.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

It wouldn't have happened without your help. I am still getting a periodic limp mode but not like it was before.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Nothing more annoying than inconsistent behaviour.

I would just log as many sensors as you can, both EU and OBD and try and catch the trigger.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

He had a working KS and I think it must have been pulling the timing. I was using a 470k resistor so it didn't pull it.

KRRZ350

iTrader: (29)

If you EVER consider something like that again, I WILL steal your 'new platform', do doughnuts on your front lawn for the wifey, and then crash it in to a tree! And I only say that because of all the knowledge many of us have gained from your hard work, experience, and dedication. Thank You.

pmohr

iTrader: (26)

Is there a seperate TCM for the A33B, or part of the ECU? Then again since you mentioned the CAN lines, I assume there's a seperate TCM.

Now, what about all the BCM functions? I believe it's in the sticky that you'll lose all BCM functions without basicall rewiring the entire car for sunroof, windows, etc. Did you just run a new engine and dash harness for the ECM, or everything complete?

Sorry, last question, this on airbags. Does the airbag system have a seperate harness, or is it incorporated into the main dash/body harness?

NmexMAX

iTrader: (22)

Yes the A33B has a separate TCM located almost identically to where the A32's unit is.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

There is a separate TCM for the A33B but I am still using the TCM from the A32 because I am still using the A32 trans. However there is now no connection between them as they are totally incompatible.

All BCM functions are retained, the new dash and engine harness connects where applicable.

Not sure on the airbag system since I don't have any and all wiring etc has been removed.

scrhale

The BCM is not really affected by the ECU swap. The cruise control functions are stripped away from the BCM and some refigerant pressure sensors and minor A/C sensors may need some tinkering ... won't cause CELs or drivability problems, but may have some effects on auto climate control functionality.

This theory that all BCM re-wiring is necessary is because the original full 3.5 swapper used an Altima ECU and engine instead of A33B.

Jime, can you report sometime about airbag functionality?

nismology

iTrader: (8)

The airbag wiring/functionality remains intact with a full swap.

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

So you have no Cels at all with the harness swap? It just sounds like the vehicle is catered more for the track and most of us run our cars as a DD.

MAXSE5SPD

iTrader: (5)

i beg to differ, i think its the other way around. you can keep the cruise easily, the added tq of vtcs, no idle or cold start problems.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

I have a couple of CEL's but I am working on them. Well its my DD and its very tame and quiet until the gas pedal is forced to the floor. Its also bone stock on the exterior with the exception of clear corners and 16" SE wheels.

Maxima_Joe

iTrader: (384)

This is great news.
I'm interested in the trans operations.
Does it still shift on it's own? How is that wired up?

speed racer

iTrader: (10)

I'm sure in due time you get rid of them. I'm working on converting my rear O2 sensor from a 4 wire to a 3 wire to get rid of my cel.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

You are absolutely correct sir !!!

I made a few pulls tonight with a resistor in place of the ks. It is the first time I have ever heard this engine knock so it is definitely doing its job.

I was getting very audible knock especially at the lower rpms with as little as +5 degrees over stock.

I always fill up with 91 so I am now questioning the quality of the fuel at my local Esso station. The problem is that my fuel is paid for as long as I fill up at Esso and there is only one station in the town that I live and none in the town where I work.
I will finish this tank off and then try some Shell 91 and see if that makes a difference.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

Damm!! that doesn't happen too often. I only use Sunoco 94, its expensive but I have had really good luck with it. I had +20 before I could hear the knock. Going to do some more tuning today will keep you informed.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

It will switch on its own but it shifts at too high an rpm for DD'ing, I don't have the tach input connected and of course none of the wires that go to the ECU. I am not too concerned with that because I still have the shift-fast mod and its connected to the EU for auto shifting at whatever RPM I have it set at. So I just reduce the shift point down to 2k or so for a DD then shift to a different map for the track.

scrhale

Jime, when you get the time, could you post the CEL codes you have now. I am curious to know what codes we should become adjusted to seeing while doing the swap, which are removable, and which we may just have to live with.

I do not recall knowing how many people have done the full swap, but does anyone know if there are codeless swappers out there? I think Vasily (or however he spells it) was codeless.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Vasily had a full parts car, that helps. Ideally when doing this swap you have a full car, so you can swap motor, tranny, cluster, dash wiring, wheels and seats if you want. You arent missing anything and most importantly EVERY SINGLE THING comes from the same car.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

I am codeless. Have been since day 1.

eng92

iTrader: (3)

Why is that important?

My "frankenmobile" has parts out of atleast 10 different cars.

JClaw

iTrader: (17)

Less headaches that way. If I had to do it with VTCs I would do it with parts all from the same car. Remember I tried mixing Altima and maxima parts. The gas pedal for example, was ANYTHING but bolt on.

Jime

iTrader: (10)

The 2 codes I have are because I removed the PS and Evap stuff. If I had left that on I wouldn't have any codes. I am going to have to fool the ECU into thinking they are still there to get rid of them. Its not a priority for me as I have a constant display on my PDA from the ECU.

Anyone who does a normal ECU swap shouldn't have any just like eng92 indicated. He has posted all the necessary info to do this swap painlessly, just give yourself lots of time and patience. I didn't have any of the problems JClaw had but I got all my parts from a Maxima except for the engine. Most I got from yards in the USA and had them shipped to my Mom's winter home in Fla and then I picked them up in Feb and brought them home to Canada. Most of the wreckers are easy to deal with and some even threw stuff in for free. ie the E-Gas pedal, key, immobilizer etc. Like eng92 I also have parts from at least 10 or more wreckers.

IceY2K1

iTrader: (3)

Jime,

Any progress on the V-manage?

Red Lion

iTrader: (13)

link to any of these threads?
Or should I not be a noob and search?


this is really inspiring, but nerve racking for me. I'm a 95 Altima wanting to swap in the VQ35DE and up until I started reading this thread I was totally for the timing parts swap, but it seems if I could get around the wiring it'd be cheaper for me to go this route.

My only concern does have to do with the body wiring; I read someone say above that they lost BCM functions due to having an Altima harness and ECU in their Maxima; me being an Altima trying to swap in Maxima parts might not go over easily. What body electrical functions were lost? Headlights/taillights? interior lights? A/C (or is that functional to the dash)? Just trying to figure out a game plan.

I recently bought my VQ35DE out of an 04; if I were to attempt this would the ECU/harness from an 02/03 work with an 04 engine? I would presume so but I'm not as knowledgeable as most of you on the subject.

nismology

iTrader: (8)

http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=400371
http://forums.maxima.org/showthread.php?t=487345

Kevlo911

iTrader: (36)

Whoa you're still alive

Jime

iTrader: (10)

I will post as soon as I get it running. It is installed and I have logged a bit but haven't tried any changes yet, should get something going this week.