augnon

So I was driving home and the car shut off I checked the belts and everything was good also the lights and radio still work.

Right before everything cut off I heard something that sound like metal scrapping together or metal being cut or a electric saw sound.

It is 1am right now and thankfully I was with in walking distance from my home.


I don't know were to start this is one of the areas I have not studied yet.When I tried to start the car the lights come on and I hear the noise that I ussaly hear before it starts up but it is not turning over.

91 Maxima Auto

augnon

All the fluids are normal and I checked battery with a Voltmeter underload and not underload last month.I do a tune myself plugs wires fuel/air fulters dis cap and rotor.I also wanted to add when I checked for codes around 3 weeks ago there were none.

150k on the car

augnon

Nothing out of the norm.I got a code 11 CSP.Going to try and test it will report back.

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

Timing belt

augnon

How are you able to rule out the CPS.I'm going to get back out there and try to turn it on.

augnon

So I'm running into some confusion now.

The FSM says the Auto model has CMPS(Camshaft Position Censor)that is located inside the distributer.When I do a google search for the part under shooping it shows a long cylinder type sensor but in the book and another thread it is shown as a semi flat round object. see here.

LvR

So despite logical suggestions you are quite intent on checking everything other than the actual timing belt - yes?

augnon

I'm going to check the belt; when this happened it was 1Am in the morning and all my tools were home.I've read here how to see if the belt is broken by taking the dis cap off and cranking the engine; if it spins then the belt is not broken.I also read that you can take the oil cap off and see if anything turns if it does then it turns.

I've also find out that this car uses a CMPS



I'm hoping this is the culprit.I will check the belt when I have another person to turn the key.Tnx for the support thus far.

ColombianMax

iTrader: (7)

is it cranking a lot faster than normal when you try to start it? or does it just sound as if you ran out of gas?

augnon

It sounds exactly the same as it always has.The has half a tank it in.I always use the trip log as a back up just in-case the fuel Gage doesn't work correctly.It is currently at 100 miles sitting at half a tank.

augnon

I'm going to try and do some more tests tommorw.My beleif is that the CMSP(Located inside the distributor) is the issue because I think the car is not getting any spark.Sum sites list the CMSP as CPS(Crankshaft postion sensor) for this model year.

I still need to check the belt.SO thus far

Plenty of guess;fuel pumps just don't die out of know were.
Battery has normal charge;alt fine
Engine is not sieze i looked in side nice and oily
I think the small metal scrap I heard was the distrbuter

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

cps (as it is usually known as, and I have no idea where the "M"" came from) code can come from a broken t-belt.
no spin, no signal, ecu confusion.
no spark, yes code.
it may be the cps, but they usually don't fail.

augnon

So alot of testing and I've narrowed it down to 2 causes.

Timing belt broke; Distruber or the CPS/CMPS inside the distrubuter.I still don't have a 2nd person to test for a spark.What thing I've noticed in life so far when you no another person for something they are never around but when they need you, you are always avaible.Anybody else feel like that?

On another note when I tried to crank with the dist cap off the rotor did not turn.Sigh there goes my summer.I was just about to sell this one at the end of the month and purchase my new car with the left over money.I suppose go bad things happen so that some good may come out of it; that's how I always look at things.

Also I'm trying hard not the have the car towed to a mechanic; I have around 200 sockets plenty of wrenches pliers etc.I may need to buy a breaker bar; my question is can I change the timing belt myself I can follow instructions. For me it is just a matter of having the tools; I'm really only interested in seeing if it did indeed break.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

basically, remove the cover to be sure. believe they are all 10mm screws holding it on.

if it is indeed a tbelt, i am sad to hear that. but on the up side, used engines can be had for cheap for these cars

opera mobile ftl, no spell check.

augnon

I'm assuming I will have to take the wheel off and the other belts on the outside correct?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

well if the rotor doesn't turn, the belt is broken unless by some chance you can turn the rotor by hand, which would indicate a broken disty shaft (massively rare if it's even happened at all)

so if the belt IS broken, then your motor will need to be replaced unless you can actually fix the damage (maybe valves, maybe pistons, maybe both)

cheaper route is a junkyard engine, and perk it up a little bit with some new parts.

augnon

I want to thank over one for there help so far.I opened the top timing cover and found this.

I'm going to change the belt and see how bad the run runs, I don't car about bad MPG etc just want the car to run again.

Maxima.org has changed my life and saved me alot of money.

1991Maxima1991

iTrader: (3)

That sucks man but good luck with replacing it make sure you replace the tensioner and waterpump while your in there, i just hope that scraping metal sound you heard wasnt your internals coming apart...

augnon

Thank you my friend, the rotor is pointing at cylinder four so not sure if that was the intake or exhaust or intake.I'm going to do it myself.I only want to replace the belt nothing else because I was going to store it away in two weeks I just want to have to drivable again.I'm hoping the damage is any is not be or even noticeable.I don't plan on keeping it too much longer I want a 94.

LvR

You will be wasting your time replacing the belt only - you are guaranteed to find at least a few bent valves .................

augnon

Look like oil get on the belt some how causing it to break cam seals????

augnon

I never get on the free I only use to car to get food 10 minutes down the road and to go to the gym 10 minutes down the road.

You don't the car is driveable with a few bent valves?I don't care about MPG.

LvR

I am a lucky sod that have not yet broken a belt on my own VG, but if history and experience posted on this forum with similar situations are anything to go by, the car is going to be a pig to drive ................... that is if you can even make it run

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

yeah i dont know if its really driveable, honestly youre going to need a rebuild or a new engine


but yeah its a waste to just do the belt alone, you may as well do the tensioner, water pump, thermostat, and check all the seals while the engine is out

augnon

I purchased the car for 1k did a 120$ worth of work/parts myself so the rebuild/swap would exceeded the valve of the car.I'm really only interested in getting food 10 mins down the road If the valve are broken I may try and replace those myself I have no idea how hard that may be.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

you MUST replace the tensioner. the tensioner bearing wears out over time, and if you run it past its life expectancy, it wil start generating a crapload of heat as it gains friction, and eventually seize up and throw the belt again.

most likely no. they will keep hitting the piston every rotation of the engine until bent valves turn into broken valves. at which point your piston will develop a hole in it. and a junkyard engine can be had from LKQ (pull it yourself) for $120 or so if you just take the shortblock and nothing else.

cmax03 did it on his, just replacing the broken stuff.

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

If the belt broke when you were driving, you have at least 3-4 bent valves, which means 2 or more cylinders are down. these cars will not run well at all 2 cyls down, and will *barely* start 3 cyls down. it's undriveable at that point. If you DO get it started and drive it, as said above, you will start breaking the bent valves in short time and they will wind up trashing anything else in the engine.

if you don't want to rebuild that one, your best bet is a junkyard engine for a couple hundred bucks. change the belt, water pump, and cam seals on it, then install in the car and call it a day.

if it's within walking distance of your house, do the redneck thing and call a friend with another car. grab a tow rope and pull it the "walking distance" to your house. it'll save you the tow.

I know you like finding your stuff out on your own, but it's been pretty obvious we know what we're talking about. first thing anyone said was you have a broken timing belt, and you didn't listen. try listening to the people that drive and work on these cars every day. otherwise there's no point in you posting here if it's just going to be your blog. this is a forum. you want to talk and not listen, you can go somewhere else. we have enough people like that here already.

augnon

I looked at her thread and saw what happened, I will try to replace the valves but I Have no idea on how to tell what valves need replacing.I've heard that you should do a compression test but I would assume I need to be another tool, unless there is another method to check for a bad valve.
I live in the new england area and junkyard are well out in rural areas.I would like to replace the valve myself.I live in the city

The tow company wanted 90$ to take the car 1 block down the road.I signed up for AAA for 52$ and I was back home with my car in 30mins.I get 4 free tows a year I believe.

I under that folks here are skilled in repair but I simply kept updating the thread for future reference so that other members can see and learn as well.If people did not update there threads if would very hard for other members to learn.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

lmao no, that was cmax's neice. cmax is very much a man lol.

o and a compression test only works if the timing belt is intact. otherwise you can't draw air into any given cylinder to compress it, and the valves are partly open due to the camshafts stopping in a random spot when the belt broke.

augnon

Tnx for correcting me.I will put the belt on first I suppose there is no way to "eye" a broken valve.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

um, sure, that's a fantastic idea

if you pull the rocker shafts, all the valves will close. then if you can pressurize each port individually, the ones that lose air have bent valves, the ones that hold air are less likely to have bent valves.

or just buy a set of heads from a motor with an intact belt, put them on w/ new headgaskets, and know for a fact your motor will run.

augnon

I think lastly I should ask you the best method for pressurizing the the individual ports.I have losts of tools because my land lord fixes house and does construction for a living.

I wish me had a rep system here.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

you'll want a cylinder leak down tester; has an inlet from your compressor, and goes thru the spark plug hole, like a compression tester.
I think these are "free" loaners from autozone, oreily, etc.

augnon

Thank you I will report back with pics and an update when I have completed everything.I hope this will be a good reference when people need help like I did.

5 ltr. beater

i dont understand instead of going through all this trouble of fixing a motor that is costing you time and money (not to mention uncertainty ) , why dont you get a used low mileage motor for the same price as a valve job?

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

yeah i would really just get a new engine, dont get one with really low mileage though because there could be something wrong with it or the car could have garage queen problems, get something with medium-high mileage that most likely is trusty/proven good

augnon

I'm going to preform a cylinder leak down test to find out which vavles need replacing.After that I'm going to order the vavles, Then I will do the timing belt.I got a quote for a motor and it was 550$A qoute for a head is 175$.I guess since they figure I live in ne england everybody makes alot of money here.

I have plenty of time because i quit my job and now i just do school work.
I still need to study on doing valve replacement.I'm pretty confident on the timing belt, I just got I can get the crankshaft bolt off my roomates have a puller.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

technically the leakdown test only identifies cylinders that leak, not which valve on that cylinder is leaking. hence why i said ports and not cylinders. but there isn't any sort of 'official' way to test a port, you'd have to make something up yourself.

also remember that if you are doing a leakdown test it only works when the valves are closed... so since you can't really turn the engine to turn the cams anymore, you will need to just pull the rocker shafts out of both heads to make all the valves close (as much as they still can anyways)

5 ltr. beater

if i remember correctly, doesn't he take the head with the valves on it to a machine shop to get a valve job? which includes resurfacing the mating surface of the head and replacing the damaged valves?

Hectic

iTrader: (20)

You could always replace the engine with a Quest/Villager engine. They are non-interference VG's. Little less performance, but if this happens again, THEN you can simply replace the belt like you wanted to.

Sorry to see I was right.. Personally, i'd get good junkyard heads. Easiest and cheapest solution.