Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

okay.. so i know that they dont make coilovers for the third gen and that even if u could put coilovers in the max.. they wouldnt work.. this is the part im asking about..
why would the coilovers fail? is there anyway to fix that?

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

you'll blow your struts apparently, and theres no way around that

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

what's so different about a 4th gen vs a 3rd gen? same front suspension design... rear is different obviously but the weight distribution is basically the same..

or are you talking about sleeve-overs over the stock struts?

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

the rear strut housing isn't designed to accommodate a coil-over setup, due to the lower spring perch. The problem lies less with the strut, more the housing. I believe what Matt, or Jeff meant was the stock struts aren't designed to take the abuse of normal driving, when lowered that much. I wouldn't be worried about blowing a strut (think about a koni strut + sprint spring@2 inch drop: about what a coil over would net you).

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

woooww.. that makes no sense to me at all.. hahaha.. you cant weld some sort of plate to the top of the strut housing thing?

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

IIRC Matt said since the struts are so short, it doesn't allow a full range of motion, I guess making the struts sort of semi perma-compressed (especially if you had coilovers and dialed it down pretty low), which blows them out quick

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

okay.. hold on.. first of all.. let me be a noob for a sec. and ask if we are on the same page.. im talking about putting in coilovers to replace the whole spring and shock set up.. where does the strut come back into play?

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

I don't see why one couldn't sort of just do a "body drop" on it by adding an inch or two of length into the strut towers. Then it'd be low(er) and still ride smooth, kind of like what alot of hot rods do. If I trusted my welding skills to **** around with the strut towers, I'd try it out. But in theory, I see absolutely no reason it wouldn't work. You'd just have to be careful about keeping the same geometry/angle on the towers.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

James: oic... I stand corrected, and concede the point.

hamtaro:
the back strut is actually an insert. there is nowere to replace the rear strut, and coil,
with out hacking the stock one apart.
ignore any site that says 89-95 maxima coilovers. they aren't for the j30 maxima; they are for the a31 maxima (not a US car).

James92SE

iTrader: (31)

Because there is only X amount of length in between the knuckle and the strut tower. Since there's only X amount of length/space, the strut can only be so "long". If you LOWER the car even further, it essentially eats into that X amount of length/space, making your strut sort of permanently compressed, which drastically reduces the life of the strut.

Again, this is just what I *think* I remember from what Matt said. He'll probably come clear all this up himself, though

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

ahaha.. its not like im lookin to buy coilovers.. im just curious.. even if i wanted coilovers.. im extremly broke.. hahah.. but okay. i think i see what you are saying.. but.. theres nuthing stopping me from fabricating somethin.. haha

so just t get this straight.. the rear strut hangs down? it dosent bolt up like the front?

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

no.. sort of...
the front has a seperate hub assembly. the rear has an integrated strut tube (where the strut insert goes) and hub assembly, in one piece.
both bolt to the top in a similar fashion.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

z31 people just cut the tube and weld some-other-car's coilover (usually S13) into the tube, up front. the 3rd gen rear strut is actually REALLY similar to the z31's front strut design. the tierod doesn't actually attach directly to the strut either, it attaches to a small "knuckle arm" that bolts into the bottom of the strut/spindle assembly.

but for a maxima you would need something that was designed for the nose-heavy weight distribution of FWD cars. z31 is 50/50 front/rear, maximas are more like 60/40

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

okay.. so when you swap rear breaks for disks. could u overcome the problem of the strut and hub being one assembly by swaping hubs?

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

aside from the bolt pattern for drum/disk, they are identical (they may be the same in that aspect, as well). something we may consider is caped's post aove yours (not sure how practical it would be).

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

man. i wish i had a pic. haha. i would go outside and look at my car... but its so damn cold.. haha

so you can put coilovers on a maxima after all.. what were ppl talking about the strut blowing out?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

no offense but you have literally ZERO idea what the suspension on this car looks like if you're asking that kind of question.

in this first pic.. you see the bottom of the strut/spindle assembly, with the hub removed. the difference between drum and disc struts is JUST the bolt pattern for the 4 bolt holes that hold the caliper adapter plate or drum adapter plate. the "hub" (the thing your wheel bolts onto) is the same regardless what type of brakes you have.. only difference being it has the notched ring on it for ABS.



this pic shows the whole spring/strut setup. as you can see there's nothing to "swap"

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

"can" is debatable. nobody's actually done it before because it isn't worth the time, money, effort etc to cut and weld strut tubes on a nose-heavy FWD sedan especially when you don't know exactly what car's coilover you would want to be welding on. and even then i don't know if 4th gen fronts are a direct bolt-on or not. it's entirely possible that they aren't.

Hatmanafro

iTrader: (1)

haha
yeah... your right. ive never really looked at that.. but hey.. thats why im on here gettin schooled..
those pics rele help.
so one last question then.
to lower the car, you want new struts and spring. right? okay
so according to that picture the rear strut is one piece with the hub assembly.
how would u get a new strut in there?

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

there's a huge nut at the top that holds the strut in. factory struts actually just have the strut guts directly inside the tube. all replacement rear struts are a sealed drop-in cartridge.

if you want the car lower, get drop springs (eibachs are the best in terms of not totally ruining your suspension geometry) and stiffer struts (tokico or koni)

biggz2332

iTrader: (5)

Since we're on a suspension topic does anyone know why nissan combined the strut,spindle/hub,brakes all in one, to do a spring/strut(rear) job alone on these things is basically impossible.

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

engineers don't have to work on cars?

(witholding long rant about auto engineers not knowing how working on cars works...)

ve30max

iTrader: (2)

How frequently, though, does one perform maintenance on the rear hub assembly. I had no need to swap the rear bearings when I had to swap out the front and the alignment shop told me, even after I replaced all the rear bushings and shocks, that the rear didn't need adjusting ( I don't think it had much to do with me, just the simplicity of the design). I think it's a pretty solid design, but if this car weren't FWD, that may not be the case. The cost to have the bearings pressed in and out on top of the cost for parts would come close, but not over the price of the hub assemblies. Gonna look it up now to see.......

*edit* ~85 for rear hub assemblies
last time I had bearings put in, it cost me ~35 for each bearing and ~40 to have them pressed in. so for ~60 more one could swap the rear hubs.............. My memory fades with thought.

I am usually cursing the engineers with you Ben, but sometimes I am considerate of their intentions. Unless it's a Ford or BMW, then I sound like a drunken sailor from New York.

CapedCadaver

iTrader: (8)

that wasn't my point... and no it's not that common for them to go out unless you have alot of miles on the car. the rear hub and bearing are one unit though.. bolt off, replace, bolt on. no pressing.

my point was that the OP was asking about "swapping the rear hubs" to "make the struts not blow" or something which made no sense and showed he needed to understand the layout of the suspension before trying to do crazy ish to it.

ve30max

iTrader: (2)

I understood you bro, I was just providing insight to why I thought the engineers designed the rear setup the way they did, and further explained how it wasn't hard to replace the rear hubs, nor is it that much more expensive. I am sorry, I re-read my post and did think it wasn't clear that I was comparing the cost of repairing the style of the front setup, which would require bearings to be pressed in and out, vs. the cost of replacing the rear, fully assembled, hubs.......... this thread is useless, I shall unsubscribe to alleviate my concerns over topics well described in other threads.

chrome91

iTrader: (1)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/89-90...item3ef8a9703a

BenStoked

iTrader: (7)

enjoy spending a grand, only to find out they don't fit (did you even look at them?)

ale92se

so does this mean that 4th gen front coils will fit right in?

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

No.. 4th gen suspension won't fit on a 3 gen.

The 3 gen has the godawful shortest front strut known to man. I put coilovers on mine about 10 years ago and have had problems with them ever since. You simply can't:
1. get enough strut travel, even with modified upper mounts that give an extra 1" of travel. Even with modified (shortened) Konis, I would blow the front struts about once a year.
2. get a strut with enough damping to work with the stiff springs you need to make the car handle.
3. correct the front suspension geometry to overcome the 4x4 family car design and make the car handle properly.

you can build or make anything you want- it just won't work that well unless you spend some BIG bucks and go to a Koni 8610 or 8611 race shock. Ready to spend $3500 on a suspension?

burhan92SE

i saw that ben

Anyways, as being a second year student of B.Mech, and the knowledge i have to date, it is possible to put coil overs on 3rd gen but with some really intense research and alot of money if u wanna do it the RIGHT way...but, i would just lower it with koni and eibhac and whatever, and call it a day. I wouldn't try to play with the Laws of Physics unless you really know what your are doing, consequences could be very bad on high speed driving....but as Matt said...if u wanna spend big bucks and have the passion then why not?....

ale92se

thanks for the info. not ready to spend it on my max!

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

Already did here. Learned that lesson. won't do it again. Bought a car designed to handle well in the first place and have been MUCH happier.

Jcarryl

iTrader: (1)

Came across this the other day haha this guy from Melbourne, UN has some coilovers custom made to fit on the 3rd gen. I think he's the only one thats done it... idk but to me its not worth all the trouble.

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/515618

Matt93SE

iTrader: (44)

You didn't read much of this thread, did you?

Jcarryl

iTrader: (1)

Haha yeah, but not as much as I could have soo my bad.... just thought i share my find about the coilover man in melbourne haha disregard my posts

GRNMAXDMON

iTrader: (1)

yeah, i saw this and i checked it out but look at when was the last time it got updated. been awhile so who knows if he got rid of it or just trashed it completely.